Merkel warns Obama not to use landmark for 'electioneering'

[emilyg]

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German Chancellor Angela Merkel slammed a request by Barack Obama to give a speech this month before the Brandenburg Gate as "inappropriate", her deputy spokesman said Wednesday.
The conservative leader said that while she would be pleased to meet the US Democratic presidential hopeful, it would be wrong for him to hold a "campaign rally" at the historic symbol of German unity.

"It is unusual to do electioneering abroad," spokesman Thomas Steg told reporters.

"It is unusual to hold election rallies abroad. No German candidate for high office would even think of using the National Mall (in Washington) or Red Square in Moscow for a rally because it would not be seen as appropriate."

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080709141314.t3ju24gp&show_article=1

[Aviation Pro]

1. She's right....

...Senator Obama can do the Berlin thing after he's sworn in.

[emilyg]

7. Yup.

[Radio_Lady]

11. Another yup.

[Bullet1987]

13. No she's not right...she's doing the Bush administrations bidding

There was another thread on this that showed the White House called them and didn't like it because of how unpopular it would show Bush to be...who is protested damn near wherever he goes.

[emilyg]

31. It's her country. She can do what she wants.

[Bullet1987]

36. It's not her decision tho

[emilyg]

45. Well it sure as heck is not Obama's.

[JoFerret]

52. Proof is in the pudding. No more GOP

photo ops either.
Meanwhile it is a GREAT idea/ decision/ opinion.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bullet1987]

2. Was it a problem when JFK did it?

I tell you...the Rethugs are SO intimidated by Obama it's astonishing. Now they're getting Merkel to attack it. LOL.

[BridgeTheGap]

4. JFK wasn't campaigning. n.t

[BridgeTheGap]

3. I guess if he does it, he can write off the German vote! n.t

[Radio_Lady]

9. LOL.

[blogslut]

5. meh and bleh

Why shouldn't he speak? He's the first African American to become a nominee for president of the UNited States. Like it or not, he is an historical figure and is deserving of such a grand venue.

[AllentownJake]

6. Merkel

This President will not grope you like a drunken frat boy at G-8 meetings...promise.

[LeftyMom]

12. Maybe that's her worry. Here we thought she disliked GWB, but maybe she's just playing hard to get.

:shrug:

[sufrommich]

8. How does an American presidential candidate

"hold a campaign rally abroad"? I doubt that Obama ever had any intention of giving a "vote for me" speech.Much ado about nothing.

[Enrique]

10. the media will blow this into a huge scandal

Brandenburg Gate-gate

[sufrommich]

14. It looks like that are laying the groundwork

for just that. I guess I don't see what the big deal is.

[Fovea]

15. So it is ok for Bushshit to go to old Urup

and waive his arms screaming "Terra Terra Terra!"

But a message of hope is electioneering?

Merkel seems to have gotten over her Bush flinch real good.

[leftynyc]

25. How about the chimps speech

at the Knesset? When he went after Sen Obama on foreign soil. The hypocrisy of the pukes is stunning.

[bunnies]

16. So when McCain goes abroad its "Presidential"

but when Obama does its unseemly electioneering? :puke: Fuck that nonsense.

[sufrommich]

17. Exactly,unfortunately "the media" never get called on

their glaring hypocrisy.

[bunnies]

19. The double standard is SO obvious...

it seems like any one with 1/2 a functioning brain should be able to see it. How the hell did people get to be so stupid?! :banghead:

[depakid]

20. This isn't just any place abroad

The Brandenburg Gate is symbolic.

For a candidate to break tradition here smacks of arrogance and presumptuousness. Perhaps even disrespectful.

[bunnies]

21. If they dont want him there, they can not allow it.

Its really that simple. Theres nothing disrespectful about a request. Nothing.

[depakid]

27. It's a presumptuous request and it puts the Chacellor in an awkward position

As she stated:

"no German (chancellor) candidate would think of using (Washington's) National Mall or Red Square in Moscow for rallies, because it would be considered inappropriate."

Failing to recognize and take that into account could well be called disrespectful- something I'm sure the German people and government have had quite enough of over these past 8 years.

[bunnies]

43. The mayor of Berlin wants him to speak there.

And 74% of Germans would vote for Obama if they could. Seems like the only people with issues are the Bush apologists and the Obama cant do anything right crowd. :eyes:

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

47. Here Here, I didn't realize so many here were sensitive to Merkel's "concerns"

If she doesn't want him to speak, then deny his request. Otherwise, it's pretty weaksauce to tell him what he can't say. I thought Germany was a democracy.

[depakid]

62. Only a sychophant

(and/or an ugly American) would fail to grasp why the request is indelicate at best.

It would be like a European politician coming to DC (even with the blessing of the mayor) and campaigning at the Lincoln memorial.

Mt guess is that most American would find that distateful (or offensive) even if they knew enough about the country to have an infomed opinion on whether or why they should be elected.

[dbmk]

68. Afaik it was not a request from Obama - but from the mayor of Berlin

[sufrommich]

23. You could be right, I really don't know anything about the gate,

I just can't imagine it having much of an impact on the American voter. Now,If you want to argue that it may seem disrespectful to Germans, I understand that it could be a problem for him in the future. I have a feeling that Merkel speaking out so strongly may convince the Obama campaign that it is not a good idea.

[Ichingcarpenter]

28. "smacks of arrogance"--- Now where have I heard that sound bite before?

Karl Rove: 'I do think Barack Obama is arrogant.'
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,371763,00.html

Black Republican Ads Target Obama as arrogant
http://filmgordon.wordpress.com/2008/06/30/black-republican-ads-target-obama/

[depakid]

30. Well, if the campaign doesn't want to hand ammunition to the Republicans

then perhaps they should consider their actions more diplomatically, instead of playing right into their hands.

Same holds true with the FISA "flip flopper" thing.

[Ichingcarpenter]

35. John McCain was invited too...... so that puts that crap reasoning down the toilet

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,564805,00.html

[depakid]

42. Neither one of them should campaign at the gate

I doubt Kerry would have even CONSIDERED such a thing.

For the reasons that I and several others have laid out.

Now, I can guess how much Obama would love to stress his theme UNITY at the Brandenburg Gate, and well he can in a dignified manner- AFTER he's America's president.

[emilyg]

33. Sounds so "American".

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. Yeah, he's so uppity.

[anonymous171]

18. Bush must have threatened to give her a backrub, again. nt

[vaberella]

22. WTH?! He was invited to speak. Why pass it up...

It's an opportunity to bring the message of change world wide in all politics and it's good for the US; even if he's not president. People are dumb.

[leftynyc]

29. I hadn't read he was invited

I heard he asked to speak there. Anybody have the 411 on this?

[Ichingcarpenter]

32. He was invited and the mayor & Foreign Minister says he'll invite McCain too

"An invitation would also be extended to John McCain. "

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,564805,00.html

[thewiseguy]

37. The foreign minister and the mayor are from the SPD party Merkel is from CDU

[Ichingcarpenter]

41. I know German Politics Merkel has to share power with the SPD

Merkel's party has been losing power in major elections
Its nothing like US politics.

[thewiseguy]

44. And the decision in regards to Obama's speech is with the government of Berlin

That government supports his speech. Maybe Merkel is scared that Obama's speech will help SDP.

Honestly I dont give a rat's ass what Merkel thinks.

[LisaM]

24. I agree with her on this

No matter what you call it, it would be a campaign rally. I know people in Germany who vote here, btw. And there are a lot of US soldiers in Germany.

I would say the same thing if it were McCain, or Hillary, or John Edwards, or John Kerry, etc......while they were running for President. I think it's undignified. For that matter, if Obama does speak there, McCain is likely to insist that he be allowed to, also. And how could they say no?

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

49. Maybe Obama shouldn't be allowed to go overseas and say anything then?

That seems to be what your suggesting.

[LisaM]

51. No, it's not what I'm suggesting, but thanks for making that leap.

I also don't really think he should go around with an ersatz presidential seal, either.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

53. But your arguments support is "I know people in Germany who vote here, btw"

"And there are a lot of US soldiers in Germany" Not a real solid reason to not go there. What about Obama going to Iraq? Is that ok? If Merkel doesn't want him there she can deny it. It's only awkward because she's making it that way. I guarentee Obama's speech isn't going to be about tax cuts, it's going to be about rebuilding relationships, something the Germans may be interested in...

[LisaM]

54. I don't care if he goes there, and I don't care if he initiates relationships

it's the posturing in front of the Brandenburg gate I don't like. It is like a campaign photo op.
And I wouldn't care if it was Hillary doing it either. It's undignified.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

55. Well I just read this...

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,564805,00.html

"Many Germans want to get to know him," Ruprecht Polenz, chair of the foreign relations committee in the German parliament, told SPIEGEL ONLINE. "It's not just politicians, but the broader public. When the best possibility for that to happen is at this place, then I have no problem with it," he said, referring to the Brandenburg Gate site."

"Guido Westerwelle, head of the business-friendly Free Democrats, said that any objection to the Obama speech based on the idea that only elected presidents should be allowed to speak at the Brandenburg Gate is just "bureaucratic balderdash."

I still don't see the problem...

[woolldog]

79. We now know why Merkel is having second thoughts about this:

She's been pressured by the Bush administration to come out against this idea.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6485101&mesg_id=6485101

[NashVegas]

26. Shit. He's Gonna Bypass DC and Go Straight to the UN Sec. General's Office

[LowerManhattanite]

39. Perhaps he should violate her personal space...

...and lay unwanted hands upon her person.

Folks who do that apparently don't bother her in the least. :)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

40. Did Bush ask her to say that?

Probably.

[NattPang]

46. Some posters crack me up.

Obvious is as
Obviously does.

[TexasObserver]

48. Her displeasure is noted, and dismissed.

Another Bush toad croaking on cue.

I'm sure Obama will be well received in Germany, and she can like it or not like it.

[emilyg]

56. Dismissed?

How arrogantly American.

[TexasObserver]

58. Yes, dismissed.

As are your comments. Does acting all indignant actually work for you? You're a laugh riot with that routine.

[emilyg]

60. I'm glad I can provide some amusement for you.

P.S. Arrogance bores me.

[TexasObserver]

66. not much longer

I took you off ignore recently under the theory you might have improved some with the primary season over, but alas, you're still you.

Say goodbye, emilyg. Good luck with that pissy attitude.

[emilyg]

74. Pissy is a lot better than arrogant.

I'm crushed - I tell you I'm crushed that you put me on ignore. I'm sure the announcement made you feel Texas big.

[LowerManhattanite]

73. It is a fucking act, too. And badly. Like a shitty 80's Lifetime courtroom drama.

[emilyg]

77. Go wash your mouth out with soap.

[dbmk]

69. Chalk one up for ther arrogant Danes too, then

He was asked by the mayor of Berlin, afaik. They supposedly pressed rather hard for him to do it.

Merkel is clearly doing the WH bidding.

[JoFerret]

50. Thank you Merkel

All politicians should be so cautioned.

[npincus]

57. I think Obama needs to be careful...

He is not the President (yet) and such vanities as fake presidential seals and open-air oratory abroad seems a bit of hubris and getting ahead of himself at this stage of the game. I think he should comport himself with humility at all times, especially until he is duly elected.

My opinion.

[JoFerret]

59. Such vanity and presumption

have nasty ways of turning round and giving a venomous bite to the behind.

In addition - it is very unattractive.

Base moves alienate the base.

[dbmk]

70. Vanity and presumption...

...how?

By saying yes to making a speech?

[thewiseguy]

61. I dont think Obama should care much about what Merkel says

She is probably upset that Obama's presence will boost her rival SDP party. Both the foreign minister and mayor of Berlin who are SDP officials have welcomed Obama's speech.

I have posted a news article on GDP where it says 71 percent of Germans would vote for Obama.

[depakid]

63. Typical American response

And people wonder why Americans are held in such low esteem in the rest of the world.

[dbmk]

72. And typical Danish too apparently.

The analysis is absolutely right. Europe has been increasingly "blessed" with right wing governments - that have been busy kissing Bushs behind. Even though Obama is still, issue by issue, comparable to a right wing politician in most of Europe - he is a signal of a change to the left, away from war and jungle law social politics.

The GOP are not the only ones slightly worried by this.

[crimsonblue]

64. who gives a shit?

seriously? It's a frickin gate. Berlin wants him there. If the people of New York wanted some french candidate to speak at the Statue of Liberty, then we'd probably allow it.

[MissHoneychurch]

65. It doesn't matter what she wants

it is the decision of the town of Berlin where Obama may speak or not. The chancellor has no saying in this. And I also heard that * asked (? ... maybe demanded) Merkel to not let Obama speak on the Brandenburg Gate.

Simple solution: Obama should hold his speech in front of the American embassy ... which is DIRECTLY next to the Brandenburg Gate.

[onetwo]

80. That's the perfect solution... I hope he does just that.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

67. Merkel needs to rethink the alternative......

McSame would be morde of the same treatment to her status

[demokatgurrl]

71. We all just read a column about how smart he is

If he's smart, he'll honor her request. He WILL be dealing with her if/when he gets elected. I think it would be a big mistake to defy her.
AND I think she's right. A foreign country's historic landmark is not the place for a U.S. political campaign. It's bad enough our own historical landmarks are used as props in that way.

[SwampG8r]

75. more "concerns"?

time to finally get WITH the program dontcha think?

[emilyg]

76. At my age it's hard to get with anything. LOL

[barack the house]

78. I think he should just talk to her first by phone he can charm anyone with enough effort.

[Levgreee]

81. I think the reason some people share right-wing concerns is they hang out at forums with r-wingers

not that they are necessarily right wingers themselves.

[depakid]

82. Some people have an international world view

and therefore have a sense of discretion and propriety with respect to other nations that ethnocentric Americans lack.

This in addition to having a clue about cans of worms and potential controversies that really don't need to be opened....