***Senate Voting on procedural vote for H.R. 6304 (FISA) Right Now***

[blogslut]

Final vote for the thing, up next

CSPAN 2

[msongs]

1. watch while the senate blows bush? nt

[atreides1]

2. Thanks

Not something I wanted to picture.

[blogslut]

3. Whatever

Nobody is forcing you to watch.

[senseandsensibility]

4. I don't think the poster meant to insult you

We're all a little testy this morning, for obvious reasons. I can't bear to watch myself, but thanks for posting.

[blogslut]

6. Thank you

I appreciate your kindness. :)

[kirby]

10. Stick your head in the sand...

The bill still applies to you, if you watch or not.

[blogslut]

24. Yes, I am aware

There are laws that apply to you that you're not even aware of. Laws that are reconfigured without the approval of Congress. The AG can make new rules for laws that are on the books, did you know that?

[kirby]

29. Yes, the executive branch has too much power...

And the FISA bill that just past greatly increased their power and greatly lessened oversight, in contravention of our constitution. Its a sad day.

21 Dems votes yes for this bill.

[blogslut]

31. Actually, it increased oversight

When compared to the Protect America Act.

[blogslut]

5. Okay, this is it

Debate and then vote on the actual bill.

[Jersey Devil]

7. Rockefeller calls it "civil liberties legislation"

A complete joke

[Canuckistanian]

12. You gotta be kidding

I thought the Rockefellers were still a wealthy family.

Why did he fold so easily for telecom money?

[blogslut]

8. Jay Rockefeller up

"The next president will have the chance to review it. Rockefeller wants his colleagues to support the bill."

Crap, are they already voting on it? Or is the a roll call?

[Muttocracy]

11. that was sort of bizarre - let congress pass bad leg. and president reviews it?

weird view of how our system is supposed to work.

[blogslut]

18. This law can and will be amended again

Laws are amended all the time. At least this new version puts warrant review back in the hands of the FISA court. It's better than it was under the Protect America Act.

[blogslut]

9. Okay, they're actually voting now

Here we go

[PBS Poll-435]

13. Kerry - NO, Feinstein - CA and Bennett - UT - Yes

[rug]

14. I'll just watch it through a keyhole.

[Marie26]

15. How did Clinton vote? nt

[blogslut]

17. She voted Nay

n/t

[Marie26]

20. Good. Thank you

I called her office & it's nice to think that the FISA calls might have made a difference.

[flpoljunkie]

28. I believe she first voted Aye, and then changed to No at the end of the voting.

[Marie26]

30. Are you watching C-SPAN?

I think your impression is wrong - Clinton voted aye on a procedural measure. The nay vote is the vote on the actual bill.

[flpoljunkie]

33. Are you absolutely certain?

[Marie26]

34. Are you?

It seems like you're trying to spread innuendo that Clinton didn't "really" vote against the bill or something.

[blogslut]

16. 69 Ayes - 28 Nays

The bill is passed

[senseandsensibility]

21. No!

:cry:

[rug]

25. That gives Bush 6 months to wreak havoc with it.

[blogslut]

26. But now, he'll have to get approval from a FISA court

n/t

[ashrob123]

19. How did Obama vote?

[Marie26]

22. Aye. nt

[vaberella]

23. As he said he would.

[ashrob123]

27. **Heavy Sigh**

I thought that he would change his mind. Well, I don't know why I'm surprised he's a centrist (which is why he wasn't my first pick).

[vaberella]

32. He's not centrist and I'm not surprised. I read the current bill in detail.

The drama associated on this board with this bill is unfounded. A lot of posters who are the more fanatical are posting the original formation of the bill or one of the later changes but not the current bill that is discussed. Most of their anger is unjustified in relation to the arguments used.

The bill is not perfect, not by a long shot. The FISA though doesn't give warrantless immunity and all that stuff, there is retroactive immunity in the sense that civil suits aren't allowed however criminal cases are still liable. So in the end Telecoms do go underfire.

Here's some sites where some DUers really have a handle on what's going on and some more information on the FISA.

http://fisa.wikispot.org/Telecom_Immunity_Arguments

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3570855

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6464503&mesg_id=6464707



All in all there are several issues that I think caused so much of the frenzy here in regards to the current FISA. Many people didn't read the bill but were gathering their information from others (people they believed are "qualified" to understand and go against the bill). So when asked about the bill majority of them can't defend themselves with the language from the bill itself. Secondly, had they bothered to read the bill they would probably understand it. It's not a difficult bill to read. Some people may not understand the language since one type might lead one to assume a specific idea and then there are protective measures on to the power that is given. Another issue is that people know that it's Repubs who are supporting it and automatically equate "evil" and "civil liberty" thieves. This overall I won't deny, however the repubs aren't all the same and there's no case here. The original bill, yes, however this one no. People should have been more hard up about the Patriot Act because we lost our rights then, not with the FISA now. On a last thought, some of the exclaimers on this board not even Demo's or Demo's who even supported Obama or would vote for him in NOvember. So they just like to add to the drama and frenzy, when there's no reaosn for it.