Senator Clinton voted against FISA.

[rateyes]

Just sayin'.

(Full disclosure: I voted for Edwards, and then supported Obama when Edwards dropped out.)

[ellacott]

1. Funny

[gateley]

2. Maybe you should rephrase that to say she voted against FISA --

the subject line almost sounds like she didn't vote at all.

[rateyes]

5. Done.

:hi:

[gateley]

10. Much better

:) :hi:

[liskddksil]

3. I doubt Edwards would have either

[ecstatic]

32. Hopefully fully championing the IWR was enough

damage for one person

[liskddksil]

62. a vote partly made on based on bad advice from the DLC

At least he regrets it and ran one of the most progressive and anticorporatist primary campaigns in this election.

[GarbagemanLB]

4. and she isn't running for president. Just saying.

[rateyes]

7. No, she isn't. Why is it that "running for president" seems to automatically

make one abandon principle? :shrug:

[elkston]

12. Cause this is small stuff compared to other issues.

Its a complicated bill and Barack has the intelligence and judgement to balance the risks/rewards and take action.

The most important thing right now is perception to those low information voters. Democrats MUST win this election. Period.

[rateyes]

13. "Small stuff?"

:shrug:

[comradebillyboy]

20. yes the fourth amendment to the constitution is

a trivial matter to many here at DU. I also happen to be very fond of the 1st (separation of church and state etc), the 2nd and the 5th. I think presidential candidates should uphold the constitution.

After all, there are principles that are worth fighting for.

[Egnever]

43. If this fisa bill violates the fourth amendment

And I am pretty sure it doesnt. Then have it struck down. Take it to the supreme court and get it overturned, as I am quite sure it will be if it in fact violates the fourth amendment.

The constition trumps laws. You can not write a law destroying the constitution. You can only change it through amendment.

[SwampG8r]

61. im a big fan of the tenth

[Renew Deal]

18. It's the same as running for Senate. Just ask Sherrod Brown

Ask him about his torture vote in 2006.

[NashVegas]

34. Cause If It Didn't

Some people who use her IWR vote to trash her might have to consider that vote was also based on principle.

Just sayin'

[GarbagemanLB]

47. How many people will die because of Obama's FISA vote?

[LVjinx]

54. "Give me liberty or give me... eh, fine, I don't actually care about liberty." Nice.

[merh]

6. Good citizens check for duplicates!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6475317&mesg_id=6475317

[rateyes]

8. I didn't see that one on the list when I posted, but...

mark me down as a "bad citizen" if you want.

[high density]

9. Clinton supports terrorists

Just sayin'

[RaleighNCDUer]

11. So what's her angle?

Why should the DLC candidate vote NAY on something supported by all other DLCers?

Maybe, just to take an anti-Obama position?

I don't believe for a minute it is not just political positioning. She knew it had no chance of not passing and this cracks progressives away from the Obama camp.

The DLC would rather lose in November if they can't win themselves.

[rateyes]

14. So. you are saying that both Obama and Clinton voted

differently than they normally would have?

[RaleighNCDUer]

19. yep.

He voted the way he had to to keep from being attacked as uncommitted in the war on terror.

"My gawd! Don't you know he voted AGAINST surveilence of terrorists?!"

Not a strongly principled stand, but what I'd expect from a left-leaning centrist. He is not, and never has been, a progressive icon.

She is still positioning herself to step up if he tanks at the last minute, or failing that, to run in '12.

They may both be saying the primary is over - but they are still not in the same camp. IMO.

[LVjinx]

55. That doesn't even begin to make sense

"He voted the way he had to to keep from being attacked as uncommitted in the war on terror."
"She is still positioning herself to step up if he tanks at the last minute, or failing that, to run in '12."

If so, wouldn't she have voted the same as he did, since he only voted the way he did, according to you, out of political expedience? IF Hillary did have to position herself to take his place, wouldn't she then be vulnerable to the same attacks that, according to you, Obama's vote forestalled? I'm just saying, it helps to think these things through.

[RaleighNCDUer]

71. They are not playing to the same audience.

The primary campaign left him with the image of a progressive leftist. We know that's not true, but the MSM would have it seem that way, so HE has to play to the center, to firm up his centrist credentials for the GE.

SHE, being a center-right DLCer, has to play to the left - which she can now safely do because she is NOT running in the GE at this point. If something should happen to sabotage Obama's campaign, she is counting on the short memories of the public to put this behind her, but for now she needs to restore her reputation with the left of the party. Her actual predilection might be seen in the fact that in the run up to this vote she offered up NO significant opposition. She has, at this time, the 2nd strongest voice in the Democratic party and she said NOTHING. So she voted against it. Big whoop.

He is playing to the general public. She's playing to the party. Different audiences, different votes.

It helps to think these things through.

[Beacool]

56. Oh please...................

:eyes:

[Alter Ego]

15. Good for her.

Did she go poopy in the potty afterwards?

[rateyes]

16. If she went poopy...

I hope it was in the potty. She made the wrong vote in Kyl-Lieberman. She made the right vote today. Obama made the wrong vote today. He voted against telecom immunity before he voted for it.

[Canuckistanian]

40. Grrrrrr.

"He voted against telecom immunity before he voted for it."

Thanks for reminding me...

:grr:

[RedShoes]

17. I'm glad she did her part for the people of New York. She is a good democrat.

[thewiseguy]

21. The primaries are over

Just saying!

[Zachstar]

22. She showed courage. Obama does not have any.

Any chance he can be stripped of the candidacy and give it to Clinton?

[thewiseguy]

25. Thank you mods!

:hi:

[DevonRex]

31. And boy, was that ever FAST! Love it. nt

[ecstatic]

36. Zachstar, I'm urging you to please grow up

We will not get anything accomplished if Obama is not first ELECTED. Obama explained why he had to vote the way he did. I take it that at one time you believed in his candidacy--why not give him the chance to actually get elected and see what he does then? Patience, my friend.

[thewiseguy]

38. He is gone...Tombstoned

He was a pure troll. Some of his responses even outside this forum would make you scratch your head.

[Beacool]

57. Nope, it won't happen.

:eyes:

[Occam Bandage]

23. She, like Obama, did exactly what her career needed.

She needs to ingratiate herself to liberals if she's going to have a career in this party, especially after the campaign she ran. He needs to prove that he's a pragmatist and not a hardcore ideologue purist. Both made smart votes.

[Clintonista2]

37. Voting the wrong way in order to win?

Sounds like old politics to me. Where's the change?

[Maven]

39. ...

:thumbsup:

[Windy]

44. sounds like your candidate...however death resulted from her vote

on the IWR and may result from her vote on Kyl Lieberman. Those mistakes can't be fixed...
FISA can be fixed.

[Clintonista2]

50. Judging from Obama's FISA vote, and from what his supporters have been saying

Obama would have voted for the IWR, had he been in the senate, as long as it benefited him politically. Oh, and how did he vote on Kyl-Lieberman again? Refresh my memory (I'm sure that on such an important vote, he voted against it, right?)

[Windy]

52. Excuse me, but if you will recall, he was running for State Senator in Illinois at the time.

Going to war with Iraq was the popular position to take during his run for office in that state. He took a stand on the issue, openly stated that the decision was wrong despite the fact that he was in the midst of a campaign.

And no, he didn't vote on Kyl/Lieberman, but Hillary when out of her way to come off of the campaign trial to vote YES!! She would have been better off sitting out the vote than to have voted YES for that atrocity!

[Clintonista2]

53. As I'm sure many of his supporters are learning

Saying and doing are two different things. Yes, it's easy to say that you would have voted no on the IWR. Yes, it's easy to say that you would filibuster FISA. But what happens when the voting begins is a different story.

[Beacool]

59. At least she showed up to vote for KL.

Which is more than I can say for Obama and McCain.

[Occam Bandage]

64. You don't get credit for showing up to vote the wrong way. She was a sellout when she was running.

Now that she needs to get liberals on her side again, she'll be a liberal for a while, then she'll settle into however she actually feels, quite possibly for the first time in her independent political career.

[Beacool]

70. Pray tell, if she's not running for anything at the moment,

why would she need the liberals on her side?

[Occam Bandage]

72. If she wants to have a career of any influence or importance from this point forward,

she needs to have a national base of support and recognition. For a President, that means the center--thus explaining her actions as a candidate. For a Senator, that means the party base--explaining the run to the left we're seeing her start.

[Occam Bandage]

65. Pity you weren't concerned about that 2002-June 2008.

[Clintonista2]

73. Because I knew it was nothing more than a campaign slogan

And now you know that too.

[StevieM]

42. Nope, that's just wishful, hateful thinking. Clinton has good poll numbers in NY and is

well-respected in the Senate. And her campaign was no more negative then Gore vs. Bradley or Hart vs. Mondale or even Obama's campaign against her. The notion that she is "disgraced" is laughed at on Capitol Hill. After all the votes she got she will no doubt be welcomed on the campaign trail by many candidates. You may not like her but plenty of other people already do. Her career is stellar and her standing is strong. She voted her conscience.

Steve

[Occam Bandage]

63. "the notion that she is "disgraced" is laughed at."

[kevinmc]

24. Was she the deciding vote?

[SidneyCarton]

26. Man, I'd let it go if I were you,

They're fast on the granite cookie today.

[DevonRex]

27. The primaries are fucking OVER. Go spew elsewhere if you can't

get over it. Lots of sites out there for folks who can't let it go. They may only have like 10 people registered on them, but still, you could be #11.

[rateyes]

67. I'm an Obama supporter. Supported him in the primaries.

Just giving credit where credit is due. She may just be our VP candidate.

[ecstatic]

28. She's playing y'all. Just saying

If you look critically at ALL of her votes past and present, it's easy to see that this was a way of one-upping Obama. I know you guys can't be THAT naive as to think otherwise.

I guess she hasn't ended her candidacy after all. Maybe she still sees an opening.

[CakeGrrl]

29. What does Clinton's vote have to do with GD:Presidential? n/t

[DevonRex]

30. Nothing. He's just trying to start the primary wars over again. nt

[NYCGirl]

33. That, and $2.00, will get her on the subway. NT

[tekisui]

35. Senator Clinton isn't running for President.

Just sayin'

We have no way of knowing how she would have voted were she Our Presumptive Nominee.

But, I give her credit for voting the correct way as a Senator. BTW, did she vote in favor of all of the Immunity Stripping Amendments as Obama did?

[DevonRex]

41. So fucking what? She's not running for anything. nt

[GoldieAZ49]

45. Well of course she did, she has been fighting the repub crap for decades

those kind of democrats are few and far between in Washington

[GarbagemanLB]

48. Like her vote on FISA in February. Wait...she didn't even vote when she was actually running

for president.

[GoldieAZ49]

51. Who did that was running? nt

[Catherine Vincent]

46. Let it go.

Obama supporters don't want to hear that right now.

[zulchzulu]

49. My puppy took two craps this morning, so I let her stay in the general home area today

How my puppy did her business is as relevant as how Hillary Clinton voted on FISA in this PRESIDENTIAL forum.

Oh wait! My basil and tomatoes are doing really well in the back garden, PM me for my pesto recipe.

[krawhitham]

58. She balances the ticket

White - Black
Female - Male
No FISA - Yes FISA
Old Politics - New Politics

[Beacool]

60. President - Vice president

Just hoping.........

[iamthebandfanman]

66. move on

how sad are you. honestly.

[rateyes]

68. I don't "move on" very easily from the erosion of my civil liberties. nt

[yourguide]

69. That no vote would have been handy when the iraq war came up.