I'd just like to thank Obama for voting against Telecom immunity today.

[Occam Bandage]

It's a pity the Dodd Amendment, which Obama strongly and vociferously supported, did not pass. I wish more people had fought for it; maybe if we had applied some pressure we could have gotten enough Senators to vote the right way on that.

[derby378]

1. True, but he should have stood his ground

I am still very disappointed with his final vote.

[Occam Bandage]

4. He did. He also held his position that we need to pass a bill returning FISA oversight.

He voted exactly as he said he would.

[flpoljunkie]

13. If Obama had voted No, the Rethug 527 ads would already be up!

Obama will not keep you safe!

There is a reason why McCain harps on terrorism. It's the only thing he polls better than Obama does--by a whopping 20 points--53-33!

Very sadly, the American voters are, as a whole, woefully uninformed.

[derby378]

18. Who cares what the 527s say? He should have voted "No" anyway

The Repukes will try to tear Obama a new one no matter what he does. They know that their own candidate sucks, so all they can do now is attack Obama.

[roseBudd]

31. We need to win in Nov. more than anything, FISA is an issue they have framed incorrectly for low

info voters for months if not years. We cannot expect an informed electorate. We have to win POTUS & a big majority in the Senate. Barring those 2 occurrences we will be screwed.

[bowens43]

33. So, politics as usual, fuck change........

[roseBudd]

37. If you mean losing then no not politics as usual

[derby378]

53. With the FISA vote, we may lose either way

So tell me, what have we accomplished by caving in to Herr Decider AGAIN?!?

[roseBudd]

55. Do you actually think the vast majority of voters even know about FISA? If so have they bought the

GOP framing or are they too smart for that?


Losing elections does no one any good at all.

[bowens43]

32. So? Principles mean nothing?

We let the republicans decide how democratic senators vote?

[NattPang]

44. The only thing that will get back your constitutional rights

is to win the election.

That should be your principle.

[Zachstar]

2. Spin much?

Quote from kirby on another topic


Here are the Dems who voted FOR FISA! SHAME ON THEM!!!!

Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Conrad (D-ND)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lincoln (D-AR)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Obama (D-IL)
Pryor (D-AR)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Webb (D-VA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)

and 'Independent Democrat'

Lieberman (ID-CT)

[Occam Bandage]

8. Nope. I think we need to recognize the good votes that our candidates make.

[Zachstar]

21. He voted for an amendment then broke and voted for the bill.

That is 100 percent flip flop

[Occam Bandage]

25. That kind of dumbass non-thinking reminds me of Zell Miller claiming that

John Kerry wanted our troops to fight with spitballs because he voted against a military spending bill containing funding for M-16s. Bills are voted on not based on the value of one amendment or one section, but on the whole. Obama voted against immunity. He voted for a flawed comprehensive bill that also included immunity, among other good things, such as restoring oversight to FISA.

[Zachstar]

28. Turn down the RPMs on the Spin Machine.

Only the repubs can spin that fast.

[Occam Bandage]

29. "Spin" apparently now means "Huh, that's a damn good point. I can't think of a good response yet."

[Occam Bandage]

30. And, whaddya know, turns out he was a troll. Gotta love pizza.

[The_Casual_Observer]

3. LOL

How much are they paying you to do this?

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. I guess I am one of the few who isn't disappointed

I expected it to go this way. It's a drag but I think they were convinced the telecoms thought they were doing the right thing.

No I don't agree but I decided a week or so ago it was a done deal and we had lost the battle.

[ulysses]

23. same here. n/t

[Joe Fields]

40. In my opinion, the only thing that convinced them was all the PAC money

and lobbying money thrown their way.

Last year the telecoms spent 35.6 million dollars lobbying congress to protect them. Obama himself recieved 285,000 dollars from Time Warner.

[aquart]

47. Going along to get along is so much less stressful

Than protesting a wrong until the last bloody gasp.

[seriousstan]

6. Yes, now in the debates he can say "I voted against it, before I voted for it."

That worked so well once before.

[Alexander]

10. Actually in the debates he can say "I've been entirely consistent in my positions"

because it's true.

[Occam Bandage]

11. So you believe that candidates should never vote for compromise bills if their amendments fail?

That kind of hardcore partisan purism would be the exact opposite of what Obama ran on.

[seriousstan]

16. What compromise? He folded like a house of cards. Fillibuster??

He should have voted against it. Period.

[Occam Bandage]

19. He stayed consistent. He said he was for returning FISA oversight. He said he was against

telecom immunity. His votes today were consistent with those statements.

[democrattotheend]

22. No, he voted for several amendments

And then decided that the final bill was imperfect but better than nothing. I disagree, but that's not the same as "I voted for it, before I voted against it."

[seriousstan]

46. It is "I voted against it, before I voted for it." It, being immunity.

I don't care if the dogshit is bare or has bacon, lettuce and tomato wrapped around it....IT IS STILL DOGSHIT! The fact stands, he voted for immunity!

[Alexander]

7. We need to remind people he supported the Dodd Amendment.

Certain folk here will keep harping on the idea that "there's no difference between Obama and McCain", and we need to push back with Obama's support of the Dodd Amendment, and his promise to fight immunity once in office.

[seriousstan]

12. Right, he's keeping his powder dry. Where have we heard that before?

[Occam Bandage]

14. No, he isn't. He strongly supported a good amendment. He will continue to fight for it.

[Joe Fields]

43. It's such a good amendment, George Bush was for it. n/t

[Occam Bandage]

50. Link? The entire Republican caucus voted against it.

[Joe Fields]

42. you know why we're keeping our powder dry? We don't intend to use it.

[judy]

9. He should have voted against it,

as long as it did not include the Dodd amendment.
I am quite disappointed.
On Edit:
He should have voted against it PERIOD!!

But I would like once more to make clear that I think Obama is not the person I hoped he would be YET: I will vote for him, and I still donate to his campaign.(though right now all my $$ is going into my gas tank)

[DevonRex]

24. Thanks for saying that, Judy. About supporting and donating, I mean.

[judy]

36. Yes, Jennifer, no problem...

However, as I have said in many posts, my fear is that in his latest incarnation, Obama might be jeopardizing his chances of winning the election.
His great strength was that he was different from other politicians, and that's what I think got him the nomination..
His attitude lately has been so just like every other middle of the road democrat, that I am getting worried. I don't subscribe to the "move to the right to get their vote" strategy. I don't think it has ever worked, yet it is recognized as a good strategy. Why?

[Seen the light]

15. I like you Occam, but this is kind of weak n/t

[Occam Bandage]

17. What's weak is people completely ignoring the fact that Obama is strongly opposed to teleco immunity

and are not even taking the slightest notice of the fact that the best chance we had of stripping telecom immunity fell ignored by the wayside despite his attempts.

[KoKo]

39. Obama voted for the final Bill Passing...only 28 Senators voted against it....

:shrug: Your post is misleading. He voted for Amendments but didn't stand his ground against the very bill he promised early on in the Campaign to "Fillibuster" against. :shrug: Sorry ...but that's what it is...

[SwampG8r]

45. what is weak is

people finding ways to be less than 100% supportive of the best candidate running

[DevonRex]

20. I thank him, too. He did exactly as he said he would. He kept

his promise.

We now have 17 dems to voice our displeasure with about their vote to KEEP the immunity provision. I suggest that folks here start doing just that.

I called my DINO senator, Ken Salazar, before the vote but it did no good. He voted against the Dodd amendment anyway.

[Raster]

34. I don't know why Salazar just doesn't get it over with and change his party affiliation.

He is truly the epitome of a DINO.

[rudy23]

26. The best orator of our time and leader of our party sat on the bench for this one

With all that firepower, all he did was cast a vote on a sure-loser.

I count this one as a loss for Obama.

[Occam Bandage]

27. He was out there fighting. Don't blame him because the rest of the party didn't take the field.

After all, just as we said--he's a first-term junior Senator. Until elected, he doesn't have the Senate clout to boss the chamber around.

[LVjinx]

41. "He was out there fighting."

Can you link to that particular article? I missed it.

[MrCoffee]

35. Did anyone honestly think the Dodd Amendment had any chance at all of passing?

It was a foregone conclusion that the amendment was a non-starter...it was foregone last week when cloture was invoked.

Don't be naive.

[Occam Bandage]

51. So we should ignore a vote if one or two YEAs wouldn't have made a difference?

I suppose then that we'll be ignoring the FISA bill here, since that, too, was a foregone conclusion with a blowout vote.

[apocalypsehow]

38. Everytime I read one of your OP's, I'm reminded why you're one of the best posters here. K & R.

:thumbsup:

[liberacci]

48. I have no comments

I know too little about FISA to be talking.

[grantcart]

49. k and r

[Occam Bandage]

52. kick.

[chill_wind]

54. And for his last act, I'd just like to thank him for voting for cloture along with 100 % of the R's

Now that's emphatic opposition to a bad bill. Not.