Is There Any Difference Between McCain and Obama? Is it worth working to get Obama elected?

[Median Democrat]

I say yes. I know many are upset with the FISA vote. I was also upset with the Patriot Act, which Edwards, Clinton and Obama also voted for. However, I still enthusiatically support the Democratic nominee. Notice, I don't just say Obama, though I like him. I say the Democratic nominee.

We all have debated numerous issues such as the polls, Cindy McCain's come hither look, patriotism, DUers who annually state that they hate voting for Democratic nominees. Remember Gore and Nader? Anyways, my question is this: If each candidate's proposals are generally carried out, how are you affected? Is it possible that you, personally, would be better off under a McCain Presidency because you work in the oil industry? Is it possible that you would actually be worse off under an Obama presidency because you are a pro baseball player, and the repeal of the Bush tax cuts will sting? Does this election actually make a difference to you assuming that each candidates proposals are generally carried out?

The fact of the matter is that while it is unlikely that all of either candidate's programs will get implemented, a lot of them will be, as we discovered with Bush. So, here are some of the common issues with a link to a summary of their proposals:

1. Tax Policy?

http://obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-taxes.php/


2. Health Care?

http://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-health.php


3. Immigration?

http://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-immigration.php


4. Iraq?

http://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-iraq.php


5. Energy?

http://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-energy.php

6. Education?

http://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-education-issue.php

7. Guns?

http://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-gun-control.php

8. Abortion?

http://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-abortion.php

9. Social Securitty?

http://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-social-security.php

10. Environment?

http://www.obama-mccain.info/compare-obama-mccain-environment.php

[pnorman]

1. K&R!

If only for those useful comparison websites!

pnorman

[opihimoimoi]

2. All I know i them Pubs are scamming us once more...I can only hope the Public

will this time avoid the scam to elect an alternative...which at this point is Obama.

The Republican Party is known for their dirty tricks, their propaganda. their framing of issues though agents well paid that they engorge themselves at the trough...king among them is Rush who is really worth the $400,000,000 dollar contract???? recently signed.??

Pigs at the Trough is the Pig Party.....They also come to fragment us....

Any reasonable voter will reject the Party whose results over these past 7 years have been worse than DISMAL

Logic, Common Sense, Sanity, Benevolency, Altruism, and Reality(Truth) YELLS at us to vote BLUE

Obama is for POSITIVE CHANGE

while McSame promises the Status Quo smothered with sugar

Don't let them Pubs win by fragmenting us....look to the big picture

[izzie]

3. It will mostly go back to what these men can get Congress to do

And it would be best to get some one in that would get the govt. dept. to work once more. In a country that is getting bigger I fear govt. must get bigger also. Like in checking food. Obama would do this type of stuff I feel. It is a progressive way of doing things. McCain will let business police them self which they do not do so well unless you like 'dirty' tomatoes. We got to be a great country because govt. did work for the people. When it works for big business only we end up like in the Gilded Age. If big business does not think it needs the USA large middle class the rest of the world sure knows it needs our buying power.

[Median Democrat]

7. The GOP's Operatives Are Pushing The Gore-ish Not Liberal Enough Theme

The posts on this board remind me of 2000 when the GOP actively assisted Nader and worked to prop him up by trying to attack Gore on the left on the ground that Gore was not liberal enough while Bush grabbed at the center by arguing he was a compassionate conservative. Sadly, too many Democrats and liberals fell for this, rather than looking critically at the proposals and record of Gore v. Bush. Gore was portrayed as a liar, while Bush was touted a New Age Republican who was actually pro-environment.

Fast forward 2008, and Gore who was reviled by the left back then, is now a darling of the left and a Nobel Peace prize winner. Bush, of course, was a complete disaster.

How does this happen? First, Big Media is pro-GOP due to the need for Big Media to control the FCC, thus Big Media relentlessly spins against Democrats. Gore waffled, Kerry flip flopped, while Bush and McCain merely shift focus or emphasis. Second, the left gets manipulated. They rail against Big Media, yet they end up repeating GOP talking points and allow the GOP to set the parameters of the debate.

For example, look at the list above. Are liberals setting the agenda? That list is full of issues that are important to liberals and progressives on which liberals and progressives agree with Obama and disagree with McCain. However, these issues are not being discussed by Big Media. It would help if liberals and progressives were more active in helping Obama on these issues, rather than taking a passive remote control approach. In other words, Big Media is setting the agenda, not liberals and progressives, and as a result the issues identified on the list above are not discussed even though they affect most Americans.

This is the strange part. Some liberals and progressives acknowledge the bias in Big Media. Yet, they don't work to elect Obama and to draw attention to issues other than National Security, and indeed, threaten to not vote, or worse vote for McCain as a protest vote.

[question everything]

4. Kick (nt)

[Bluerthanblue]

5. hell yes!! k&r

:hi:

[Beaverhausen]

6. I don'twant to read this shit. I look at how he votes

AND I AM PISSED OFF!


And why aren't you?

[rg302200]

8. Then go over to Free Republic

they would love to have you

[jonnyblitz]

10. what a truly fucking IGNORANT response.

shut up and AGREE or go over to Free Republic. i do believe they are probably more in line with YOUR way of thinking over there.

[Median Democrat]

12. Well, Free Republic Is The Proper Venue For Conservatives

Because if you look at Post #11, Obama's actual record (not the imaginary record of DU trolls) is that of a progressive. Also, it is impossible to get 100% from all progressive groups because they don't always agree. For example, Labor and Immigration interest groups often disgaree.

[rg302200]

15. My way is supporting Democrats

not fucking them over because of ONE vote...Obama is a progressive, look at the previous posts! I don't get pissy at Democrats because of one vote, I tell them my reason for disagreeing then I move on to see what else I can help change. An Obama with a 95% progressive voting record is better than a 0% McCain. Besides you mean to tell me that EVERY democrat as voted EXACTLY the way you wanted them too on every single issue? My idol is Sherrod Brown and yet I know there have been votes he has cast that I don't support, doesn't mean I am going to piss all over him for it!

[Beaverhausen]

13. Who the hell are you to tell me to go to FR???

I stand with the true progressives in the senate. I have every right to voice my dissent.

:mad:

[Median Democrat]

14. If You Disagree With Obama's Votes, Are You Really Progressive?

Again, look at Post #11, which has several links dissecting McCain voting record and Obama's voting record. Obama scored a perfect 100% from Planned Parenthood for examnple. If you disagree with Obama's votes, then you must be a pro-lifer. Likewise, Obama has a very high rating with labor unions, I recall in the 80% range, thus if you say you disagree with his votes, you must be anti-labor.

Again, you are the one saying you disagree with Obama votes (plural). Well, if that's the case, then you probably are not a progressive based on an actual factual analysis of Obama's voting record.

I guess you could argue that labor unions, Planned Parenthood, and the ACLU are not progressive, but then the tag loses meaning.

[rg302200]

16. True Progressives?

According to progressive.org Obama is given an 87% life time progressive voting record. That puts him ahead of such Senators as:

Herb Kohl 83%
Jeff Bingaman 83%
Harry Reid 83%
Dianne Feinstein 85%
Bill Nelson 82%
Joseph Biden 82%
Jim Webb 86%
Ken Salazar 83%
John Rockefeller 86%
Daniel Inouye 83%
Evan Bayh 78%
Thomas Carper 76%
Claire McCaskill 80%

and many more. In fact there are only a hand full of Senators that get a higher voting record than Obama and some are real close to him or even tied with him such as...John Kerry at 88% Ron Wyden at 88% and Russ Fiengold at 89%


As for John McCain he has a 13% progressive voting record.

Make no doubt about it Obama is a Progressive and if you say you support Progressives then you support Obama.

source:

http://www.progressivepunch.org/members.jsp?member=HI1&search=selectScore&chamber=Senate&zip=&x=47&y=16

[Median Democrat]

11. Um, He Votes Progressively, Look At His Record

Are you a conservative, because if so, I understand you being pissed. However, assuming you are a Democrat and a progressive, check out his voting record through the links in this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6457458

Also, I posted links to congressional voting scorecards by various liberal and progressive groups such as Planned Parenthood (Obama 100%), ACLU (Obama 89%), and the League of Conservation Voters (McCain Zero, Obama about 70%).

So, based on his voting record and consistency with the positiions of well known progressive interest groups, why should I be pissed?

[rg302200]

9. K&R

great post