If Chuck Hagel had a "D" next to his name, would we all like him?

[scheming daemons]

I respect the guy more than just about any Republican the past two decades.... maybe with the exception of Bill Cohen.


Just wondering..... I think he's an "outside the box" choice for VP and it would drive the repukes crazy.

[JI7]

1. i like him even with an R, just don't want him as VP

what if something happened to Obama ?

[NanceGreggs]

4. Took the words right outta my keyboard.

I've always liked him - but I, too, would draw the line at a VP slot.

[renaissanceguy]

16. I agree. Like it or not, there are

still people out there who wouldn't rule out voting third-party. Add a Republican onto the ticket, and we'll be reliving 2000 where a significant amount of people believed that there was not much difference between the two parties.


http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.273788222

[ShaneGR]

2. The main problem is the social issue positions... mainly abortion....

He's anti-choice. But overall, it's impossible to bring along an outside party candidate now, because if you're a two term President the VP will tear apart the Party towards the end.

[Donna Zen]

20. Economics too

While Obama's economics team was a reason that I didn't come around until Feb., I finally decided that there wasn't much choice in the matter. Hegel loves him some trickle-down with a huge dash of tax cuts for the rich.

Of course he might go to defense which would mean that the SoD was in the hands of the republicans for 16 years. No wonder Democrats are seen as weak on defense, by our own adminsion we keep asking republicans to do the job.

Hagel is a conservative republican in every way, including voting this war.

[ruggerson]

58. He's also a vicious homophobe and there are a lot of gay servicemembers

Obama has run on a platform of overturning DADT.

Hagel does not fit with that platform.

[Vadem]

3. No! He is not a Dem-lite, he is a Republican from the getgo...

and no I would not accept him as Obama's VP! If Obama chose him as his VP, I would stay home and would not vote!!!!!

Hagel is a REPUBLICAN who won his races from his own voting machines, which make his victories very suspect!!!

So, if Obama chose Hagel as his VP, I would not be voting in this election!

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

5. I care more about the issues than the parties

It seems like Hagel is really, really anti-choice.

# Voted YES on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP. (Mar 2008)
# Voted YES on prohibiting minors crossing state lines for abortion. (Mar 2008)
# Voted YES on barring HHS grants to organizations that perform abortions. (Oct 2007)
# Voted NO on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Apr 2007)
# Voted YES on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)
# Voted NO on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. (Mar 2005)
# Voted YES on criminal penalty for harming unborn fetus during other crime. (Mar 2004)
# Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions except for maternal life. (Mar 2003)
# Voted YES on maintaining ban on Military Base Abortions. (Jun 2000)
# Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions. (Oct 1999)
# Voted YES on banning human cloning. (Feb 1998)
# Rated 0% by NARAL, indicating a pro-life voting record. (Dec 2003)
# Rated 100% by the NRLC, indicating a pro-life stance (190 members). (Dec 2006)

Here's a full list of his positions on the issues, where he displays other conservative stances:

http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/Chuck_Hagel.htm

[Pirate Smile]

6. He is very conservative on all the social issues. That is the problem.

He is good on the war but that is pretty much it.

[Eric Condon]

11. And therein lies OUR problem.

The minute any Republican shows one tiny shred of sanity on one issue, we rush to give them too much credit, because we see it as such a relief.

Much like how anytime a good Democrat shows any remote signs of "failing" us on an issue, we in the Netroots tend to rush prematurely to declare them "dead to us."

[Raine1967]

13. You speak truth. n/t

[anonymous171]

7. His foreign policy is sound.

That's about it.

[Rowdyboy]

8. Lieberman is much better on social issues....That tell you anything?

[Hieronymus]

9. Hagel differed with Bush on Iraq, but not much else.

[KingFlorez]

10. Not if he still held the same nutty positions

Hagel doesn't belong on the ticket, period, no matter how anti-war he is.

[scheming daemons]

15. What about as Sec of State or Defense? His abortion position is meaningless there....

[WinkyDink]

26. Why are you pushing a Republican on Obama?

[scheming daemons]

30. Not pushing.... just an intriguing idea....

[ruggerson]

59. It's not an intriguing idea for woman and gay folks

who care about discrimination.

[Raine1967]

12. Why would we want ANYONE with an *r*?

Seriously... Why are we as Dems even considering this notion?

There are PLENTY of right leaning Dems out there is you think that is what it is gonna take to win. We don't need Hagel. Despite showing common sense, he is a republican.


Oh yeah... and a clock is correct twice a day....

No I would not like him, but if he were a (D) I would support that decision... in the meantime... if we need a Dino, OR a Rino... let's do with any number of the Blue dogs out there.

[Overseas]

63. Republickers just laugh at Sappy Dems for falling for the bipartisan imperative

Republicans have pushed bipartisanship for Democrats and done the opposite themselves for years now. They make a show of the very limited times they cooperate with Dems and suggest Dems should make major concessions. And too often the Dems fall for it. You don't reward the party that has destroyed our military security by giving them Defense or Foreign Policy leadership. Their ideas are bankrupt and have bankrupted our country. Look at their results rather than their propaganda. They've always weakened our country while talking tough.

I really think the Republicans have been laughing at the sappy Democrats' attempts to bend over backward toward bipartisanship. They've always argued on how DEMOCRATS should be bipartisan while Republican actions have been very very partisan, especially over the last 20 years or so. Super-partisan. WHY DO WE EVEN THINK OF REWARDING THAT BEHAVIOR?

[spag68]

14. VP choice

The only person that seems acceptable to me that isn't a Dem. is of course Bernie Sanders. They are all with few exceptions, to right for me, even most Dems.

[Hugabear]

17. So he's an anti-war Repuke - so is Pat Robertson. Wanna give him a hug?

Just because he has the right position on one issue does not make him a friend of ours.

[scheming daemons]

18. Hagel's position on abortion is no different than Casey's....

[MannyGoldstein]

19. Hagel Voted For War

Most Democrats in Congress voted against war.

[PM7nj]

21. We'd probably hate him even more. nt

[last_texas_dem]

22. No

Most of us hate Zell Miller, I'm pretty sure, and Hagel's overall voting record is to the right of what Zig-Zag Zell's was- and much further to the right than Lieberman's, for that matter.

[quakerboy]

23. Nope.

[lojasmo]

24. Wrong on almost every issue. N/T

[WinkyDink]

25. Why do YOU think Hagel is still a registered Republican, hmmmm?

Apparently that "R" means something to HIM.

[Douglas Carpenter]

27. Sen. Hagel is an anti-neocon Republican - he absolutely loathes those evil bastards

He is however also a traditional Reaganite Republican on most other issues.

What I do see good about him is that he does have the national security and foreign foreign background and the foreign policy credibility to stand up against the Neocons and if he did have a prominent position in the Obama Administration, he would be a strong voice of reason on what I believe is the single most important issue; preventing any more imperial wars in the Middle East. He is also someone who understands at least the Machiavellian necessity of working aggressively for peace in the Middle East.

In many ways, given his particular background, he would be a much stronger and persuasive influence in deterring foolish military adventures than any liberal Democrat could ever be.

Having sad that, I repeat, he is on almost every domestic issue a traditional Reaganite Republican.

Still, as much as I believe in liberal and social-democratic principles on domestic and social matters, "There will be no one to save with the world in a grave." Given his impressive and even conservative and hawkish security credentials, there could be no stronger person in a future Obama Administration to lead American away from the abyss of a destructive and self-destructive foreign policy. And for the cause of peace I would dine with the devil himself.

[Hope And Change]

28. As Ed Rendell said: It would be hard to sell to the Democrats.

[kstewart33]

29. I think he'd make a great VP.

Conservative on the issues, yes, but top notch on foreign policy and the military. It would put teeth into Obama's 'bring us together' mantra.

[LBJDemocrat]

31. He's a free trader

I like him probably better than the vast majority of free traders, but shitting on the working American in that fashion disqualifies him for me. If he had a D next to his name, I'd like him less because that would mean he was ruining not just the country but the country's best chance of getting ahead (i.e. the Democratic Party).

[TheFarseer]

32. If Hagel had a D next to his name

I'd feel the same way about him that I feel about Lieberman - utter contempt. He is a big business repig and beyond Iraq, there isn't much that any of us would agree with him on. Since there is an R by his name I have grudging respect that he can break with the party when he feels they are wrong and not only that, but speak out on it. btw - you're going to love his replacement. A John Cornyn clone named Mike Johanns. I will certainly miss Chuck from that standpoint.

[joeprogressive]

33. I think it is a good opportunity for Obama to put a republican in the cabinet n/t

[Heidi]

34. That'd just make Hagel a DINO. I don't see how it would help the country. (nt)

[TwilightGardener]

35. He's my Senator--I like him even as an R. He opposes his party on not just the war, but

on Iran, torture, intelligence issues, some Constitutional issues, immigration, and pretty much all foreign policy. He has stuck up for Democrats several times over the years, and his best buds in the Senate are Democrats. His wife donates money to Obama. I wish he'd just pull a Jim Webb and become the most conservative Dem EVAH! But he can't seem to leave the party that shits all over him--he's like an abused spouse.

[WinkyDink]

36. Excellent post.

[awoke_in_2003]

39. As someone pointed out upstream

his record on abortion atrocious. A woman's right to privacy and choice used to be a hallmark of this party.

[Mass]

45. Webb is on our side on economics issues. Hagel is not.

Do you seriously think we will more things ahead because we become a moderate Republican party? Did it happen to you this is not what Democrats want?

Hagel is to the right of Ben Nelson on about every single issue except for the war, voted AGAINST removing immunity on FISA. So, he may be a decent Republican, but it is what he is: a Republican. Why would we want him in this party with his current positions.

The problem is that these Republicans who are disgusted of Bush are still that: Republicans. What we need is not bringing them to this party. It is showing regular people who vote for them that they are WRONG and that the Democratic party is offering solutions that will help them and that the best of the Republicans do not. Why is it so difficult to believe.

[TwilightGardener]

48. Hagel is only slightly to the right of Ben Nelson--they vote the same way

much of the time. Not on fiscal issues, but that's about it. Hagel voted against waterboarding, Nelson voted FOR it. Hagel voted against Kyl-Lieberman, Nelson voted FOR it. Hagel voted for immigration reform, Nelson didn't. Both voted for FISA. I don't see much difference between Hagel and Nelson, really. Both represent their constituency in conservative Nebraska by voting fairly conservative. If they didn't, they wouldn't have been re-elected in this state. I suppose what I like about Hagel, beyond his stand on issues, is the courage that it takes to turn to his red-state citizens and his party and say, "This is wrong, we're doing the wrong thing, our President is fucking up"--not just once, but over and over again, for YEARS, no matter how much he's lambasted and berated in his home state and by his party. He knew he had no shot at getting re-elected here, knew he couldn't run for prez in his own party (even though he would have made a FAR better candidate than any of the jokers the GOP ran this year), knew his political career had pretty much ended because he wasn't willing to go with the program. He did it anyway, because he's decent and loves this country and the soldiers who fight for it. That's a lot to give up to do the right thing, and as a military wife, I will always defend him for that.

[Inuca]

49. Just for the pleasure of sheer speculation

what do you think would have happened had Hagel decided to run for re-election as an independent?

[TwilightGardener]

51. The default setting in Nebraska is "Republican", so Mike Johanns would still win, IMO.

Hagel wouldn't have run against Johanns anyway--they are friends.

[Inuca]

54. Continuing the idle speculation

if they are such good friends, maybe Johanns would not have run against Hagel, as Kerrey said he would not. I was basically just wondering whether he could have had enough support among democrats and independents, in spite of the republican default setting. Well... not particularly relevant at this point.

[Mass]

57. Hagel voted against the Medicare Bill. Nelson voted for it. And you could continue a lot.

Now, my point is not that Hagel is not a good man. Among the Republican senators, he is one of the ones I respect the most (with Olympia Snowe). But this is hardly the point. The point is who should go on a Democratic ticket and it really goes to what we believe in. Do we reject Reaganism or do we support it. Do we reject supply-side economics or do we reject it? Do we support some sorts of economic justice or not. Hagel is on the wrong side of these issues (every single one). He is definitively a decent man, but his ideals are not the ones that I think should be leading this country (even if he sometimes is on the correct side of the foreign policy agenda). Now Nelson is not exactly somebody I would like to see on the ticket either, but at least, he votes the right way on most domestic issues.

[TwilightGardener]

64. Well, barring something awful, he'd only ever be VP, if chosen (and I doubt that will happen)--

that means none of his voting record would matter--he would be serving his boss and the Dem agenda. That said, I'd have to be reassured that he would continue Obama's policies AND make appropriate SCOTUS choices in the event that something happened, before I could mentally accept him as VP. I think it would be too tough for him to campaign for Obama--hard to see how he could sell the Dem agenda when he often voted against it, though he'd be a very competent VP. Overall, I always vote primarily for the person and his/her character, not on issues as much, which is why he doesn't bother me as a VP pick (and why I backed Obama early on, and am not really upset over FISA). I can certainly understand that "issues" voters and very partisan voters would object to him.

[Evergreen Emerald]

37. I think Hagel is a good man. I think he could not be part of the Bush

debacle and stood up for what he believe in despite the pressure from his party. Imagine how hard that must have been for him in this climate. Indeed, it is hard for democrats to stand up for what they believe (Obama had millions supporting him and could not stand up against the Bush machine on FISA). So, it must be very hard for Hagel to do what he did.

Having said that: Other than Iraq (which is HUGE, I will give you that), Hagel is on the opposite side of every other issue socially, economically, than Democrats generally.

Perhaps he should secretary of defense and get us the hell out of Iraq.

[Inuca]

52. Socially and fiscally conservative, absolutely

but it is not only the war. Just off the top of my head: GI bill (with Webb), an infrastructure bill (with Dodd) endorsed by Obama and that Dodd I think is trying to bring before the Senate this session, worked on immigration reform with Kennedy,... I think he is a perfect example of how smart people can do good work together on issues they AGREE on, even if they strongly disagree on other important issues. Taking advantage of common interests, even when dealing with countries like Iran, is one of the ideas Hagel has been insistently pushing as a basic foreign policy principle. Different wording, but that's what Obama has been saying as well. It applies equally well to domestic issues.

[Exilednight]

38. no

[frogmarch]

40. If he had a D by his name and

still voted R like he does now, I would still not like him.

[bigwillq]

41. No

His stance on social issues sucks big time.

[CTyankee]

42. If that happens liberal Democratic women who supported HRC and came over to Obama

would be livid. The prochoice majority has been a major base of the Democratic Party. Not that prochoicers would vote for McCain, however, they would not come out in support of Obama and might choose not to vote. It would be a suicidal move for Obama to put Hagel on the ticket for that reason alone. Not to mention the fact that we have such a large pool of talented Democrats who could be picked instead. Obama has tohold the line on this one.

[DevonRex]

43. I would like him better if he had a D. I have not read much about

his specific positions but folks here tell me he's way right wing on some things, like choice.

Now, IF he had a D and IF his positions had moved to the left on some very important issues, I would like him a lot. At the very least, he deserves a lot of respect for bucking Bush et al on the war.

So, I guess the answer is a qualified YES.

[Milo_Bloom]

44. Secretary of Defense is where he belongs.

He is great on foreign policy... so give him a post where that is what he handles.

[ruggerson]

55. You don't think social issues arise in the defense arena?

Giving him Defense is basically telling women and gay servicemembers to fuck off and die.

There seem to be an alarming amount of DU'ers willing to do this.

Thank God this does not reflect real life.

[Milo_Bloom]

61. Not in the same capacity.

Hagel will likely be secretary of defense and no one will tell gay service members and women to fuck off and die.

Maybe you didn't know this, but politicians will often put aside some positions for what they perceive as a greater good. (e.g. bush I was pro choice prior to becomming a VP candidate).

[ruggerson]

62. So you're essentially telling women and gays to hold their breath and hope

that a man who has voted against them for twenty years will change his stripes?

There are many, many qualified people for DOD. We do not need to choose someone who is deeply anti-choice and a profound homophobe.

[Milo_Bloom]

69. Hardly

I am telling them the worst case scenario is the current status quo in return for getting one of the most qualified people for the job.

The reality is that the status quo is unlikely to change under any SOD, so I would rather go with the person most qualified.

[Mass]

46. No, except if we think that moderate Republicans is what this country needs. I want true Democrats

to convince this country that their solutions is what we need. I do not want them to move to the right to include people like Hagel.

I believe Hagel is a decent man. He is still wrong on most issues though and therefore I do not want him on a ticket. BTW, if you want a Republican which is better than Hagel on issues, take Olympia Snowe. I do not want her on the ticket, but she is a lot closer on economic and social issues than Hagel.

[Mass]

47. Hagel voted NO on the medicare bill, the one for which Kennedy came to vote,

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00169

[LWolf]

50. No.

I'm not voting for a purple ticket.

Period.

[mix]

53. if you want to push Obama further to the right

go for it

[rox63]

56. He'd still be a conservative

If he was a D, he'd be the most conservative Blue Ddog Dem out there. He's against the Iraq War, which is good. But he's still a conservative on most issues.

[Bonobo]

60. Then he would be "Chuck D" and I just love Chuck D!

[papapi]

65. He has a long record of opposing abortion. He opposes gay marriage.

[NancyG]

66. Terrible on social issues nt

[JustAnotherGen]

67. Hmmm

Changing to a D-After his name would not make me want him for Veep. Not that I'd be gung ho on Webb as Veep either - but at least Webb put up and didn't shut up by running as a Democrat.

I notice there's a poll going about who would you like the least for Veep and I selected Hagel.

I think Clinton would be a better choice (even though she's not MY first or second choice). Yeah - it would piss of a few people that are Neocons in Obama Support clothing (they just flipped over because they don't like Hillary and wanted to stick it to her) - But at the end of the day - she's had a D after her name for a long long time.

[LiberalAndProud]

68. About as much as I like Ben Nelson(D).

Can't say more.

[Hav]

70. .

I'd guess we would be as enthusiastic about him as the Freepers are about McCain.

[Runcible Spoon]

71. gag me with a fucking spoon.

go shill your Republican lovefest on some other site.
http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/Chuck_Hagel.htm

[JerseygirlCT]

72. Not with the positions he's taken over the years

I don't know the man personally. But based on his voting record, he's a reactionary right-winger, who finally saw the light on Iraq. That's the ONLY single thing he's done to recommend him.

So no, a D wouldn't help with that. He's still virulently anti-woman, and virulently opposed to just about every principle of the Democratic party.

I do believe anyone is capable of redemption - so sure, if he disavowed years and years of horrible work in politics and ugly views, then maybe after proving he's actually changed, I might begin to trust him.

[LeftishBrit]

73. No. He'd have to ACT like a D,

I've looked up his record a few times since this whole thing came up. He is an economic right-winger, anti-abortion, used to be one of Bush's most consistent supporters until he rebelled on this one (important) issue. He'd be a more tolerable Republican candidate than McCain - but that's as far as it goes.

[fujiyama]

74. He's a fairly conservative republican

His voting record is not like Lincoln Chafee's before he left. It's mostly straight party line voting.

But he's been a fierce and effective critic of this administration's reckless foreign policy and for that he deserves admiration. He also defended John Kerry against the Swift Boat Liars, and seems like a fairly decent and principled person. He's the kind of politician we can respect, but disagree with (and on most issues quite vehemently) but ultimately want to work with.

I wouldn't want him as VP for one simple reason:

Succession.

If anything were to happen to Obama, Hagel would assume the presidency and being of another party, it makes governing extremely tricky, and if his votes in the senate are any indication, his views on economics, domestic policy, social issues, and just about everything else, are very much opposed to Obama's and the party's in general.

I'd rather not take the risk. We can use Hagel in an Obama administration. A cabinet post would be fitting, but not the vice presidency. It's one step away. Unless Hagel swears off his allegiance to the republican party and accepts the party's platform in its entirety, he should not really even be a consideration for the vice presidency.

[Occam Bandage]

75. No. We'd hate him more than we hate any curent Democrat.