People....if you are going to debate something, at least use valid arguments (Obama, New Yorker)

[HardWorkingDem]

Come on people. If you are going to debate a topic, at least uses valid and comparable arguments, will you?

Someone tried to link the current New Yorker Obama cover to that of Nazi propaganda and now others are claiming it's racist.


Get real. Using invalid arguments that aren't even close is ridiculous.

And if one is going to debate something, at least acknowledge what the piece is actually portraying and what the creator's intent is (and I don't mean God).

I'm sort of stunned at the reaction to this cover, especially by those that are completely interpreting the meaning of it incorrectly.

[cliffordu]

1. What is your interpretation?

[HardWorkingDem]

12. My interpretation is...

the artist is stating that there are some really ignorant Americans out there that believe all the junk portrayed in the artwork and that many people will believe a lot of things told or suggested to them. The artist also has mentioned the politics of fear in his defense of his piece.

[cliffordu]

22. Thanks. I wasn't sure. I am having fun reading the EXTREMES here over this.

Why we haven't had anything like this since.....oh, two months ago.....

[scarletwoman]

2. Says the guy who hasn't actually once addressed the arguments against his case that HAVE

been made by various DUers.

Feh.

sw

[JoFerret]

4. Must be another of those disgusting liberals

shoot him/ her.

[HardWorkingDem]

9. Just what arguments are you asking me to write about?

Unless it can be shown in the November election that those who believe this garbage about Obama will never vote for him anyway, then these rumors probably aren't an issue. However, I think they are an issue and that they need to be addressed and debunked and the only way to debunk them is to get them out in the open and debunk them.

Now, what specific arguments would you like me to discuss that I have not all ready done so?

[scarletwoman]

18. I've been in at least 2 or 3 different threads where either I, or someone else was challenging your

assertions and you never once actually addressed the points being made, you just repeated your own talking points.

You probably don't recall these instances because you didn't pay any attention to what we were saying to you in the first place.

[HardWorkingDem]

19. I asked you a specific question...how about answering it without being rude?

Again, what is it specific you want me to answer and I will answer it.....

I don't know how much clearer I can be than stating I believe the rumors facing the Obama's are a problem, need to be dealt with and getting them out in the open is one way to do it.

I mean, look at how Bill Clinton handled his womanizing back in 92. He faced it head on, dealt with it and completely knocked it away with his 60 Minutes interview.

[Ian David]

3. Ahh... but in order to argue with you, I need to take up a contrary position. n/t

[HardWorkingDem]

10. What I'm suggesting is...

as someone all ready phrased...don't mix apples with hand grenades.

All I'm asking is people argue like arguments in a logical way and not by suggesting this type of cover is the same as Nazi propaganda cartoons.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

5. Good luck reasoning people out of positions they didn't reason themselves into

I have seen some comical shit on DU, but tonight takes the cake.

[Skittles]

6. that would be taking it too far

I think it's simply satire done very badly

[patrice]

7. correct? If there were a "correct" interpretation, it would not have been published.

I call BULLSHIT on this cover; The New Yorker is talking out of both sides of its mouth.

[frazzled]

8. And of course, only your arguments are valid

Jeebus, I could do a whole Roz Chast panel cartoon in the New Yorker on that one.

I believe my reaction to the cover is as valid as anyone's ... more valid, perhaps, since I actually have actually been reading the fucking magzine cover to cover (and paying them to deliver it to my doorstep) for two and a half decades. I've been reading it since back when Pauline Kael was reviewing the movies and Berton Roueché's Narratives of Medical Detection were a regular delight. I still have the cartoon of James Joyce's refrigerator notes packed away somewhere.

So when I say they fucked up big time on this cover, that it fails as satire to the extent that it can be misread (witness the 48% of Americans who thought Saddam was responsible for 9/11), I feel my arguments are valid enough. So poopie on you.

[HardWorkingDem]

11. What is it about people like you....

that twist all sorts of things that aren't there.

I'm not saying this topic should not be discussed or people should not be angry with it or whatever. I'm just trying to get people to quit with the bullshit arguments like calling this a racist cartoon or one likened to Nazi crap.

And I'm not saying only my arguments are valid - just for people to quit comparing apples to oranges.

[frazzled]

13. People like me?

You mean, an Afro-wearng chick who totes an AK-47?

What people am I, exactly, like, in your "hard-working" estimation?

[HardWorkingDem]

15. Oh, man....

that twist words into a complete mess and draw context that is not there....

You know, the posters that create arguments out of stuff that is not there...

[CreekDog]

14. i think the afro certainly depicts a racial stereotype

without any indication that it is mocking the stereotype.

got a problem with that argument?

[HardWorkingDem]

16. And what is the hair style meant to represent?

That is the context I am talking about - the hair style is to represent the hair style of the 60's and during the militant days of the 60's.

Nothing sinister there....

[scarletwoman]

17. "Nothing sinister there." Right. Because white folks had NO negative connotations regarding

big 'fro wearing black militants toting guns. None at all.

:eyes:

[HardWorkingDem]

20. Wow....

Is there something you don't get about provocative art? The guy is making a point about how ignorant see Michelle Obama - as a black militant. What is it that is so hard to see in that?

[sam kane]

21. Show me a cover with white folks that is the same. nt.

nt.

[HardWorkingDem]

23. Someone all ready posted a good...

picture of George Allen over his election....

[WinkyDink]

26. "Election" is the key word. Speaking Truth to Power is always admirable.

[MonkeyFunk]

24. good luck with that

Some people just go on cruise control on issues like this - they see that it's a negative depiction of Obama and just immediately shut down their critical thinking facilities.

[WinkyDink]

25. To "get" it is not automatically to think the attempt at satire has been successful.

I think it has failed miserably, because it is TOO CLOSE to the RW opinions.