Hillary gearing up for 2012...

[Youphemism]

From The New York Observer:

Hillary Clinton Asks To Keep Donor Money for 2012


Hillary Clinton's campaign is sending out letters to donors asking permission to roll a $2,300 contribution to Clinton's 2008 general election coffers to her 2012 senate election fund instead of offering a refund.

The letter, read to me by one recipient, includes a photocopy of a handwritten note from Clinton that says, "Dear friend, your commitment has meant so much to me over the course of my presidential campaign. You were there for me when I needed you the most and I'll never forget it. I hope you'll help me continue to fight for the issues and causes we believe in by filling out the enclosed form in support of Friends of Hillary."

The form says, "I hereby verify that my 2008 general election contribution may be designated to the 2012 Senate election. I designate the entire amount to the 2012 primary election. However if I have already contributed to the 2012 primary, I designate any amount in excess of $2,300 to the 2012 general election."

"If we do not hear back from you by August 28 2008 we will automatically refund your contribution."

This donor, at least, had no intention of signing. "Of course I'm going to get my money back," the donor told me.

[DarthDem]

1. Yawn

Like anyone else wouldn't ask the same.

[Skittles]

2. indeed

but with Hillary it's different don't you know - she's the WICKED WITCH with ULTERIOR MOTIVES!!! THE HORROR!!!

[ccharles000]

3. ,,,

"Hillary gearing up for 2012"

Paranoia is an ugly thing.

[Youphemism]

4. Sensitive much?

Wow... Touchy subject, eh?

All I did was point to an article. I added what I thought to be a pretty innocuous title.

I can understand that some Hillary supporters are still bothered. I posted this link because it's information, it could be used by Republicans to suggest Hillary might not be as supportive of Obama as she suggests, and because this might make it less likely that Obama donors will feel any motivation to help wipe out Hillary's campaign debt.

All of these are interesting considerations, and could even potentially have an impact on this election. So this is nothing to yawn at. And I have no desire to continue any of the primary fighting.

Get some skin. Yours has obviously worn a bit thin.

[Hutzpa]

57. Your insinuation is just down right

ignorant,

I posted this link because it's information, it could be used by Republicans to suggest Hillary might not be as supportive of Obama as she suggests, and because this might make it less likely that Obama donors will feel any motivation to help wipe out Hillary's campaign debt.

say again.....:crazy: because you have just left me all quizzy... huh!!

Is creating divisiveness your position? :shrug:

[Youphemism]

59. I just posted a link to a factual article. The divisiveness is coming from you...

By the way, when calling someone ignorant, you might want to bear in mind that "downright" is a single word.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hoof Hearted]

5. All the grownups were told the primaries were like - totally over.

[awoke_in_2003]

7. Actually, everybody was told the primary is over,

but the grownups are the only ones listening.

[lapfog_1]

6. I thought the idea was going to be

Obama supporters contribute to Hillary to retire a major portion of her campaign debt and Hillary supporters contributing to Obama (to make up for the amount that Obama's people sent to her). They have to do this since Hillary's major donors have maxed out as to what they can send to her, so this arrangement is/was needed.

So much for that idea.

[dkf]

8. This fund raising partnership doesn't seem to be working as planned.

[AllentownJake]

10. This has nothing to do with that partnership

or whether its working.

As part of the campaign finance law if you run for office but don't make it past the primaries, General Election contributions can be set aside as donations for the campaign of the next campaign of the office you currently hold...i.e Senate.

[Youphemism]

13. You mean "e.g. Senate."

Because the other e.g. is "Presidency," which she's also specifically written into that "Can I keep your money?" letter.

So "i.e." would be inappropriate here.

[MGKrebs]

36. That's not true.

"Presidency" is NOT specifically written in there. For it to be "specifically" written in there, it would have to say "p-r-e-s-i-d-e-n-c-y", and it does not, at least not that we can see.

It doesn't even imply it. She refers to her Senate primary campaign, then to the "general" campaign, which, given that the existing subject is "Senate campaign", by normal comprehension it would follow that she is still referring to "Senate campaign". There is no indicator of a shift to a presidential campaign.

[dkf]

14. I thought she had the option of asking that it be contributed to Obama's campaign.

no?

[AllentownJake]

15. She can't directly transfer money from her campaign

to Obama, the DNC, or anyone else. It would have to be returned than given to Obama by the donor.

[dkf]

16. But she could have asked for funds to be returned and then donated to Obama and she chose not to.

[AllentownJake]

28. I give up

She could also give Obama her mailing list. I'm not going to ask more of Hillary than I would reasonably expect Senator Obama to do if he was the loser.

[MGKrebs]

34. She might not even be able to do that, at least not for free.

If it has value, which it almost certainly does, the Obama campaign would have to treat it as an in-kind donation. (I think.)

[AllentownJake]

38. I think those list are covered by the law as free to give

Seeing Kerry handed Obama his.

[mloutre]

43. No they are not and no he did not

(Trust me on this, this is part of what I've been doing for a living for the last several years.).

Kerry (or any other pol) can't turn his email list over to anyone without it being paid for, either in cash or as an in-kind donation. Hell, he can't even transfer it from his campaign team structure to his official Senate operation without so doing.

What Kerry (or any other pol) can do, and what he did do in his messages of support for Obama -- and for a number of other Dem candidates in 2006 and now in 2008 -- is to send out email messages from his own servers on behalf of someone else when/if he so chooses.

The email list itself has tangible intrinsic value under the law and can be rented or sold under certain circumstances. But since turning the email list over to Obama or anyone else would also violate Kerry's public privacy policies, that never happened. Not even once.

Under FEC rules, actual emails sent have no intrinsic value so they do not qualify as being a financial donation. So when Kerry sent out an email to his list touting Obama -- or when he sent out an email from Obama's or Ted Kennedy's or Al Gore's or Jeanne Shaheen's signatures to his list -- they still had to be clearly labeled as "Paid For by John Kerry for Senate", since Kerry's campaign operation (as opposed to his Senate operation) owns the list and pays for the email servers.

But they didn't have to be declared as contributions to other candidates, since the emails themselves are considered to have no intrinsic value. And those emails were very clearly marked as having been sent by Kerry to Kerry's list. At *no* time was the Kerry email list handed over to Obama or anybody else.

[jbnow]

67. She already sold the use of her donor list in Dec 2007

An odd transaction.
From NPR All Things Considered, February 13, 2008

Political campaigns spend thousands, even millions of dollars to acquire good mailing lists.

Last year, New York Sen. Hillary Clinton took the unusual step of renting out some of her lists.

The article states that the campaign collected $8,225 for renting out three mailing lists
They were rented out to InfoUSA, Gupta's data collection company (that was in the midst of a stockholders lawsuit *partly over the millions promised Bill Clinton and the $900,000 spent flying Bill and Hillary) an SEC investigation and an investigation for their part in scams that bilked the elderly out of millions. New York Times-Bilking the Elderly, With a Corporate Assist
So who it went to is one odd part. (The secret donor list to Clinton Foundation was also sold to info USA) But so was the amount. Just over 8 thousand?

"As a general rule, a campaign will not let its donor list out into the markets until the campaign is over," he said. "This is the mother's milk of small-gift fundraising, and they use these lists frequently."

There are no records that any other presidential candidates rented out mailing lists last year.

Several sources who work in political consulting and in direct mail, who would not speak for attribution, said they were surprised by the deal, as well as its low price.

According to one direct-mail professional, $800,000 would have seemed like a more plausible price for a quality list.

I really remember this because after I gave up on Gore I was researching the viable candidates to see who I would dislike least. This was one of the things I found that I kept waiting to hear explained or resolved. When she threw out Rezko in that debate (who I also knew about) I thought in relief they must have gotten all of their issues cleared up and I was relieved by that...so checked and they hadn't, they'd gotten worse.

Anyway maybe she can let Obama use it for $8,225 too

[Beacool]

49. And she should do that because?????

:shrug:

[Hieronymus]

70. Even while she's asking Obama to bail her out of her huge debt?

[AllentownJake]

9. Campaign Finance Law

You can keep donations from a losing GE campaign for another campaign. You have to get written permission first. This has nothing to do with the her donors giving to Barack.

[Beacool]

51. Exactly!!!! n/t

[AllentownJake]

11. Obama would do this too if he had lost with his GE funds

Its part of the campaign finance law and this is actually quite normal.

But if you want to start a fire with the former Hillary supporters for shits and giggles and no constructive reasons...far from me to interrupt with honesty.

[Youphemism]

12. I've already posted my reasons for pointing to this article, and I did it carefully...

It's not something to be ignored though, just because someone's feelings might get hurt just because I provided a link.

Yes, I agree with you that Obama would do the same thing if he'd lost, given that he wanted to keep open the option of running for President in the next election.

[RedShoes]

17. this is a dupe thread. It should be, at the very least, combined with the other

ambiguous alarmist thread that has nothing to do with the presumptive nominee.

[sufrommich]

19. Here's the way it works...

Post thread that Hillary is asking donors to allow her to keep contributions,implying that she's gearing up for a presidential run in 2012.
Wait for the posts from those who think Hillary is completely evil and see this as "proof" that she does not want Obama elected, and is quietly sabotaging his campaign as we speak.

Wait for the few posters who will defend her against those attacks.

Answer with a tut-tut post that the primaries are over,get over it

Rinse,lather,repeat.

[AllentownJake]

30. Yep

and I hope the Mods are watching those who engage in this behavior.

[RedShoes]

37. I do too. eom

[grantcart]

18. This is standard practice - your subject line is misleading

It goes to future Senate campaigns 2012 or 2018 whenever.

[madura]

63. how about future presidential races, i ask in seriousness

does it have to be marked for a certain office run?

[obtheatre]

73. The problem is?

She has the right to keep seeking contributions whether it be for the Senate or - if Obama loses - her inevitable run in 2012.

[Marrah_G]

20. Intentionally Misleading Flamebait

IBTL

[La Lioness Priyanka]

21. 2012 senate election or general election?

[npincus]

22. the senate, so I've read on Huffpo.

[Marrah_G]

23. Her Senate race in 2012- The OP was intentional misleading

More standard flamebait.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Marrah_G]

25. way ahead of you my friend !

:hug:

[Alter Ego]

26. If it's for her Senate race then what's the problem?

[AllentownJake]

29. there is no problem

this OP is trying to cause trouble.

[Alter Ego]

33. Why do so many people assume

that all Obama supporters hate Hillary? I wasn't particularly fond of her during the primaries, but she's backing Barack now--as long as she doesn't actively undermine him I bear no ill will towards her.

I'd much rather hate John McCain.

[DeepModem Mom]

27. The Hillary supporter in our house got the letter, and transferred his contribution to the SENATE...

race. Neither I, an Obama supporter, nor he the Clinton supporter, thought this was anything outside the fundraising norm.

I wish you had emphasized in your OP that "gearing up for 2012" is in regard to her re-election to the Senate.

[Median Democrat]

31. Sweet! That Means Her Debt Is Paid Off!

Now we can focus on current race fundraising.

BTW Doesn't this belong in General Discussion?

[AllentownJake]

32. No her debt is not paid off

and this is standard operating procedure. She can't use GE funds raised to pay for primary debts.

[hedgehog]

35. I believe the primary referred to in the letter is the Primary for the

Democratic nomination for Hillary's Senate seat in 2012. Hmmmmmm...... Maybe she's anticipating quite the fight!

[Imagevision]

39. Super! and while Hillary's at it, take care of her own 12 million+ vendor debt...

[dsomuah]

40. Every candidate does this

In 2004 John Kerry had unspent general election funds that he cycled over to his senate account.

Gerphardt did the same thing as well, move his GE contributions to his senate account.

I remember in 2004 there was a bit of an uproar when people found out just how much of Kerry's GE funding had gone unspent. There was the feeling that some of that money could have been used to fund a response to the swiftboating.

[mloutre]

44. The SwiftLiars were careful to make their big push

*before* the GE cycle, while Kerry could not spend the GE funds he had on hand to push back against them with ad buys and so forth.

[dsomuah]

46. We screwed up in 2004 with the convention date

A lot of the damage that was done to Kerry was done after the republican convention but before the dem convention. we were taking hits and unable to respond.

[Blu Dahlia]

41. ...... nm

[anonymous171]

42. For her senate election fund.

So she wants to keep her seat.

[Lord Helmet]

45. it's been all about 2012

since she knew she couldn't win months before she ran out of states. Just ask all the crossposting fools here plotting that very thing.

[democrattotheend]

48. I agree with you, but this article title is misleading

She's asking to roll over the money for her Senate campaign in 2012. I know her militant supporters want Obama to lose so she can run again, but we have no way of knowing if she plans to do so.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

50. 2012 senatorial campaign. nt

[PatGund]

47. Hmmmm

The letter says it's for the Senate race in 2012. Which makes sense to me.

Of course, the PUMA types are wetting their pants at this "PROOF THAT OUR BELOVED GODDESS OF PEACE WILL CLAIM HER RIGHTFUL THRONE IN 2012, HAVING CAST ASIDE THE PLACEHOLDER MCCAIN, WHO SAVED THE THRONE FROM THE EVIL INFIDEL OBAMA!!!!! RISE DEAR HILLARY RISE!!!!"

I wish I was kidding, but I'm sure some of the echo chambers are pretty much saying just that right now.

That being said, I wish Sen. Clinton well with her Senate race. I'm sure she will be a strong voice in the senate in supporting President Obama's policies.

[Youphemism]

52. Wow. I've really been taken to the woodshed in my absence...

First, I just posted a link to an article. That's it. The title read, "Hillary Gearing Up for 2012." Those were the only words of mine in the entire post. So, I guess people are upset over those words.

Sorry, that's how I see it. She's getting funding lined up both for a potential Senate race and for a potential Presidential bid. That seems like "gearing up" to me.

Second, someone pointed out that this is a duplicate post and should be combined with the earlier one -- I looked for an earlier post on this topic, but I must have missed it. Apologies -- but while we're combining dupes, let's make sure we put together those 7,000 New Yorker Magazine posts that sandwich these two similar ones.

Finally, there are a bunch of people saying that this is just about her Senatorial race... I'd have to point out the words from the article, pointing out the words in the letter she sent:

> The form says, "I hereby verify that my 2008 general election
> contribution may be designated to the 2012 Senate election.
> I designate the entire amount to the 2012 primary election.
> However if I have already contributed to the 2012 primary,
> I designate any amount in excess of $2,300 to the 2012 general election."

2012 primary, 2012 general election... Those are the words that suggest to me she's leaving the presidency option open.

I didn't post this to continue a primary fight. But it *is* relevant news, and I mentioned my reasons for posting it in another post of mine.

I have no need to slam Hillary, no desire to continue the Primary fighting, and no idea why this post got folks so frothy.

[musicblind]

53. This is flamebait

ibtl

[ecstatic]

54. How about paying back all the hardworking small business owners first, Senator?

:eyes:

[musicblind]

55. The law does not allow her to use these GE donations to do that.

She was only allowed to use primary donations to pay off primary debt. I agree, the law is stupid, but it's not Hillary's fault or choice. She legally can NOT use this money to pay off her primary debt. If she could then she would.

[ecstatic]

56. ok. Thanks for clarifying nt

[musicblind]

58. you're welcome.

:) Thanks for being nice :)

[Youphemism]

60. Yes, she can use this money for a 2012 Presidential campaign...

I only wrote the original post for informational purposes. A lot of people took it personally, even though I deliberately left out any commentary and simply posted a link and the article. For that, I've been flamed pretty harshly.

That's fine, but let's just make sure we keep our facts straight...

To those who pointed out that she can keep this money *only* for a Senatorial campaign, not a Presidential campaign, the FEC says you're wrong.

Here's the source and quote:

http://www.fec.gov/press/bkgnd/pres_cf/exploratory.html


Can candidates transfer money left over from a previous federal campaign to their presidential campaign?

Yes. FEC regulations permit an unlimited transfer of funds from the previous campaign of a federal candidate to the current campaign. For example, if a candidate has funds left over from a 2006 House or Senate campaign, he or she can transfer those funds without limit to a 2008 Presidential campaign. Candidates who accept primary matching funds may not receive transfers after they agree to accept matching funds. Contributors who gave to the 2006 race can also give to the 2008 race. However, if the previous campaign has debts, then transfers are not permitted.

[musicblind]

61. However the only race she mentions in this letter is a race for the SENATE

It is the only thing she asks permission for. She does not ask permission to use this money for a presidential campaign in 2012. She asked permission to use this in a Senate campaign.

[Youphemism]

64. You're absolutely right...

I wasn't discussing what she said she'd do. I only pointed out what she's allowed to do, once she keeps that money.

I also didn't suggest what she *will* do. People are obviously very touchy about this.

One more thing, I'm not the only one discussing this fact...

From HillaryClintonForum.net:

http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=20025

Primary and General for her SENATE seat.

However, what it really means is she can use it for anything. If she runs for Prez in 2012, she can transfer money from her senate account back to her presidential account. If she runs for governor, she can do the same. She could even move it back for the 2008 general election if she is nominated somehow. Her senate account is just a safe place to put it for now.

[MGKrebs]

65. Look, you misread or misunderstood the article.

The only interest here is the same interest we have in watching shit get blown up on TV.

This may be noteworthy "for the record" but there isn't really any reason to continue to suggest that this is some scheme of hers to take over the government. OK, so she may run for president again. Big whoop. She's giving the donors money back to them. Deal.

[Youphemism]

69. I agree. Not the biggest deal...

All I did was post the link to the article. Others made a big deal out of it.

I also agree that it's noteworthy -- it's more substantive than the incredible flap over the New Yorker cover -- which I think was not funny, but hardly worth the degree of flap it created.

But I didn't misread anything. I posted a link. That was all. No commentary, no nothing.

The righteous indignation was entirely on the other side of my screen.

[AtomicKitten]

62. hide thread

[vaberella]

66. What if Obama is a great president? She'd lose 2012 as well.

[Imagevision]

68. Obama will have to repay her much owed millions a second time?

[emilyg]

71. Misleading flamebait.

[ronnykmarshall]

74. I'll second that.

[musicblind]

83. I'll third n/t

[ronnykmarshall]

85. Who's the bicep boy?

[musicblind]

86. That's me.

Here's more of me at my myspace www.myspace.com/davidbryantthemusicblind

[helderheid]

75. Absolutely.

[Youphemism]

77. Could you please explain why you think that?...

I really am confused about this anger directed at me.

I posted a link to an article -- nothing more.

It was not a right-wing source -- in fact, I could have pointed to a Huffington Post version of the same thing, but it only referenced the source I pointed to.

How on Earth did it rate such anger? I really don't understand.

[helderheid]

78. You don't specify that this is a senate run in your title. Many of us assumed incorrectly you were

referring to a presidential run in 2012. This stirs up bad feelings from the primaries for many here.

[Youphemism]

80. See, to me that seems obvious...

Why on Earth would Hillary throw her hat into the ring for the next Presidential election in the middle of *this* election?

I don't understand why anyone would think she was doing that for a moment.

I also agreed with a subsequent post suggesting Obama would have done the same thing, if he lost.

Honestly, I did not mean to start the Primary fights again. But this is news, especially as people are still talking about Hillary becoming VP.

I actually withheld the potentially inflammatory observation, quoting the FEC rules stating that once she's allowed to keep this money for the next election, she *can* use it for a Presidential bid -- until I got called a bunch of names and told that this has nothing to do with a Presidential bid. Keeping this money does allow her to use it if she decides to run in 2012.

I don't post stuff just to negatively provoke people. This was credible information floating on the Internet, about people involved in this election, and it didn't even include commentary. I also won't walk on eggshells.

Frankly, I think this post was nursery rhymes when compared to a lot of posts here that I see fly past with much less commentary.

[Marrah_G]

79. Of course you are

How could you POSSIBLY realize after such an emotional, divisive primary that posting a title like that insinuating some nefarious action from a Democratic Senator towards the presumptive nominee, would cause such anger?

Such an innocent little babe in the woods you are!

:eyes:

[Youphemism]

81. Make sure you address your anger to the New York Sun...

"Clinton Already Looking To 2012 Election Race"

I guess they figured people would read the article, too.

http://www.nysun.com/new-york/clinton-already-looking-to-2012-election-race/81982/

[PBS Poll-435]

82. This is SERIES. OMFG!!!!!1111!!!

:eyes:

2012 SENATE campaign.

[musicblind]

84. Yes because we all know

that Hillary shouldn't run for ANY office ever again. She should die a hermit. This is TOTALLY series!!!111! lol :hug: