I haven't been to Iraq in 14,066 days.

[Toucano]

And yet I still know it's fucked up and we have to get out of there.



I also haven't met with Gen. Petraeus and yet it hasn't affected my ability to make a sound judgment.

I guess this is because I know how to use the experience of others to avoid making a mistake, and I have learned not to deny the obvious.

I expect a President of the United States to have that same ability.

John McCain obviously lacks that ability because he needs to keep going back to Iraq searching for reasons to justify our presence there. Or maybe it's because his advanced age has created some memory issues and he keeps forgetting how fucked up everything is.

[Buzz Clik]

1. Most people value informed decisions.

That's what I want.

Your opinion is fine, but it is not based on the kind of facts required to make these decisons.

[Toucano]

2. I have made an informed decision.

Going to Iraq is purely symbolism.

I know the sun is hot and I haven't been there. I am informed by other sources.

I know prison is unpleasant and I haven't been there. I am informed by other sources. I have the facts to make the decision that prison isn't a place I want to go.

I know the occupation of Iraq is untenable and counterproductive at best. I am informed by other sources. I have the facts to make the decision that the occupation of Iraq must end.

[wmbrew0206]

3. I think the point Buzz Click was trying to make is that you don't have the facts you need to

make an informed decision.

Stating that "I know what the right course in Iraq is, without having been there." is a lot different than say "I know what that the surface of the sun is hot, without having been there." You'll get a lot of agreement on the latter and not on the former.

All your information about Iraq is filtered through some sort of prizim. That prizim alters the facts, based on the reporters views, their core beliefs, and what they think is important.

The best way for Obama to see what is going on in Iraq is to go there and view the situation through his own eyes. This takes away the prizim and will allow him to decide if the generals briefing him are full or it or not.

[Buzz Clik]

5. You like space analogies? Try this: Mars is cold, but is there frozen water on the surface?

Convincing me one way or another without visiting would be impossible.

[Muttocracy]

4. more important to me is that people who have visited have come to quite different conclusions

than McCain has.

[grantcart]

6. and there are some people in Washington DC that want to change that

great point