Jackson uses n-word when referring to Obama.

[Drunken Irishman]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080717/ap_on_re_us/jackson_n_word

Ugh.

[gateley]

1. Jackson's been using the N word for years.

He's always talked that shit. He's not dissing Obama OR blacks (IMO). It's just Jesse. :shrug:

[Drunken Irishman]

2. Has he? Because I thought Jesse Jackson was against the n-word?

[Alexander]

5. Apparently he's not against the n-word or the h-word.

[gateley]

11. Yep. It's not the first time he's been caught. nt

[Hoof Hearted]

14. Until you post evidence I'll assume you're blowing smoke out of your ass. n/t

[gateley]

23. Okay. Go ahead and assume that. I really don't care.

Although I don't see why you think I would be making up shit about Jesse Jackson, but have at it.

EDIT: Here's the one I was thinking of:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/frenzy/jackson.htm

[Hoof Hearted]

6. You are correct DI. From the AP story.............

"Jackson has called on the entertainment industry, including rappers, actors and studios, to stop using the N-Word. He also urged the public to boycott purchasing DVD copies of the TV sitcom "Seinfeld" after co-star Michael Richards was taped using the word during a rant at a Los Angeles comedy club in 2006."

edit to remove redundancy.

[gateley]

10. That's part of his schtick - outrage. nt

[gateley]

9. Not behind the scenes. nt

[napi21]

3. Nice to see you're so understanding. Would you say the same thing

if some white guy had said that?

[gateley]

12. Whether it was a white guy or a black guy,

if the guy had been known to have spoken like that before, I'd be making the same point. It's how he talks when he's not ON.

And I'm not understanding or saying it's okay. I'm making an observation.

But apparently that's not acceptable to you, so I'll accept your judgment of me. But you're wrong.

[napi21]

28. I'm not making a judgement of you, I just feel it's wrong for anyone

to use such a derogatory term, and I include the rappers who do so as well. I'm an old white lady, but I knew that term was derogatory when I was a very little kid. It's a damn shame that 60+ years later there are still people using it and getting a pass.

[gateley]

31. I'm an old white lady, too --

and I cringe whenever I hear the word, regardless of who says it, because of what it represents to me.

I wasn't exonerating him (I don't have the right) or condemning him (I don't have that right, either), but rather stating he's been nabbed before using epithets that have come back to haunt him, so I didn't think he was using it to diss Obama. (Apparently I DO have the right to read his mind! :7)

[CreekDog]

30. considering that two of his most famous moments have been in studios

near microphones no less. that's not exactly "in private". ugh. :banghead:

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

4. perhaps the best thing about Obama is that

he will render Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and their other embarrassing ilk irrelevant. The "men" who inherited the civil rights movement are a disgrace.

[Hoof Hearted]

13. Obama has inherited the civil rights movement along with others of every color

Jackson and Sharpton were fighting in the trenches when segregation was still the law. He made his point poorly and should have known better but it does NOT give anyone the right to disparage the fights, the struggles and the contribution of the old guard. They have EARNED their respect and forgotten more about struggle and injustice than most of us will ever know.

[AZ Criminal JD]

71. How was Shapton "fighting in the trenches when segregation was still law"?

What did he ever do?

[JoFerret]

46. Idiotic remark

.

[cyndensco]

68. Did I miss something?

Has Al Sharpton done something to Obama to be rendered irrelevant?

Sharpton's debut to national news was questionable with his involvement in the Brawley case, but he has exposed a lot of injustice since, most recently Jena La. I do not find him at all embarassing or irrelevant. I am glad he is on my side.

[Danger Mouse]

70. He'll never live down Brawley.

[cyndensco]

73. He will always be associated with Brawley by some.

Not by me, though. I had very little respect for him initially, but now appreciate him for most of the work he has done.

[Danger Mouse]

74. He's done a lot of good work...but that doesn't make him a good person.

The Brawley case said a lot about his personality, and none of it was good.

[cyndensco]

78. I guess we will just have to disagree.

I think the good he has done has trumped his involvement with that other case. He does at times appear to be an opportunist, but who in the public eye doesn't? I like and respect him.

[Danger Mouse]

79. Fair enough. Agree to disagree.

:)

[cyndensco]

80. ..

:)

[goclark]

84. I agree

He is OK with me, he may not be perfect but who is ~

He gives voice to those that have no voice.

[azurnoir]

7. Did he use the

u {uppity} word immediately preceding it? would not surprise me

[izquierdista]

8. Jesse needs to make a detour on his return trip

Perhaps he needs to sit in the Nairobi Hilton for a while:

“I was sitting by myself (in the Nairobi Hilton in Kenya) and I just looked around and it was like a voice said to me,”What do you see?” And I said,”People of all colors doing things together”.And another voice said “Do you see any niggers?” And I said,”No!”. And the voice said “Do you know why?”. And I said(whispering),”No”. And it said,”There aren’t any…”.

-- Richard Pryor,l982 in an exclusive interview with Ebony Magazine

[TheDonkey]

15. THAT IS A MISLEADING SUBJECT LINE! Jackson did not use the n-word when referring to Obama

he used the n-word to describe the blacks that Obama said need not be talked down to. There is a HUGE differnce. The OP makes it seems like Jackson called obama the n-word, which he did not. Regardless, Jackson showed himself to be hypocritical and it was a nasty thing to say.

[vaberella]

25. JJ apologized to Obama and his family...

At this point wecan't really confirm either way since we haven't heard it...I say this because JJ apologized "again" to Obama and his family for his actions. Which opens the door for some scrutiny.However, misleading as it may be. JJ still used it to describe Black people. In the end he's an asshole no matter how you looked it.

[niceypoo]

44. Jesse Jackson is far from being "an asshole"

He was the leader of the left wing of the party for years. Too many of Obama's supporters are far too willing to throw loyal Democrats under the bus for minor slights. Thin skin is for crybabies. Too many Democrats fall into the 'pundit politics' trap.

[vaberella]

16. Is JJ hired by the Repubs?! Maybe he's an agent for the GOP.

I ask this because the article is related to Fox News who confirmed what JJ has said. It's like the repubs are trying to see if they could kill two birds with one stone. JJ doesn't like Obama and show that a well-known and established Political leader and activist like JJ doesn't like the future President who's also Black. Maybe mobilize some of the old Clinton supporters with old roots in the Black community to vote against him (as they were going to do). Then by doing that they also show JJ for the hypocrite and jerk he really is and has always been (added to that also makes him out to be a senile fool with loose lips), resulting in whatever minute reputation he still had completely laid in ruins at the deepest part of the sea.

However, this just looks bad on JJ and FoxNews----so it's counter productive and makes them both look like buffoons. While Obama gains more supporters and devotees and looks above par than the others. Ditto for the New Yorker---which to me are just PUMA or LaRouche activists in disguise.

[MannyGoldstein]

17. Only In Hymietown

A heard a good point on Stephanie Miller the other day - what would the Rev. Jackson do if Don Imus called Obama a n&^%%$r, and wanted to cut his nuts off?

[Sparkly]

18. Maybe I'm weird, but the main thing that strikes me is the AP using the phrase "N-word."

Not even "a racial epithet" or "a racial slur" or something... It's amazing that "The N-word" is now a common phrase. It still strikes me as juvenile in its own way.

:shrug:

[NYC_SKP]

24. It came into common usage during the OJ Simpson trial...

...as I recall. Then became the standard way to refer to the specific word.

"Racial slur" is more broad.

[the_real_38]

19. There's a famous 'account' of Jesse Jackson after MLK's ...

... assassination. The story goes that Jackson was an unruly son in the House of King - was threatening to go off on his own. When MLK was shot, Jackson went up to where the body was, spread King's blood all over himself, and walked out to where he knew he would be photographed by the media.

You could call that ambition, I guess - but it seems a little crazy to me. That's the point.

[otohara]

56. He's Reverting Back

he sees his power and influence slipping away and acting crazy.

[Colobo]

20. Jesse Jackson sucks.

[emilyg]

22. He probably does.

[doc03]

21. Is anyone surprised he just happened to be talking

with an open mic on Faux of all places?

[alcibiades_mystery]

26. Clue to White Folks

The overwhelming majority of African Americans in the US use the so-called "n-word" (perhaps the most white bread construction ever devised) at least occasionally. Usually, it's when they're talking to each other, because they know white folks can't handle it.

Second clue to white folks: Black self-criticism is a common trope in African American culture. Usually, it's when they're talking to each other, because they know white folks can't handle it.

The whole "Changing of the guard" theme voiced about Obama is deeply ignorant of the way African American politics actually works. Stop making fools of yourselves, white folks.

[vaberella]

27. Is this "satire"? It's been lost upon me if it is, so I'll answer as though it's not.

The "overwhelming majority of African Americans in the US" DO NOT use the "N-word". I'd like to see the notes that say this is the truth. The African American community is a conglomerate of so many different sub groups such as Caribbean American and Americans who are directly from Africa that it is illogical to even assume such a thing. As a Haitians, that word is despised and seen as something of a failing of the American culture as a whole. Even those who are of Slave descent in America a strong a amount DO NOT use that word. That word is a connection to slavery and the marginalization and mistreatment of Blacks within this country to this day; Blacks in the US didn't even get their "true independence" from what I can see until 1968. There are very few Blacks who use it and in actuallity it just became popular when Richard Pryor used it...that's when it really hit mainstream and then he even stopped after he came back from Africa. In the South so many are bible thumpers that saying such a word is like slapping God in the face. JJ is not included, he's a buffoon.

As for the second...that's utter non-sense. There is Black self-criticism which stems from long term racism of someone not being able to rise up from "the N-word" mentality which is disturbing and disgusting. I've noticed several comedians fall prey to this paticularly Chris Rock and it annoys the heck out of me. He's far more damaging to the Black community than he believes the "n-word" people are. Makes me bloody sick. But this self-criticism is not limited to Blacks just more popualr in them and given much more publicity. This is found in the East Asian community, found in the Hispanic community and even Poor white community. It's an infliction to maintain basically division and also limit progression.

I don't know what you mean by "changing of the guard" comment.

As for the recurring line of "they know white folks can't handle it..." WTF? I don't get why the focus is on "white folks"?

[Runcible Spoon]

33. cuz Vaberella, that's what DU is. Overwhelmingly white and upwardly mobile. Nothing wrong with that-

If you don't believe me, look at lounge pic threads of which there are many. Food threads, movies, music, etc. are all pretty "mainstream middle American (read:default white) culture. Probably not the most scientific indicators but it's the most accurate we have. Do minorities watch Top Chef? Sure, but let's be honest about the overwhelming demographics.

There's nothing "wrong" with DU's whiteness, but we are not really tolerant of any dialogue about race that isn't 100% scrubbed clean liberal We Are the World, United Colors of Benetton outlook.

[alcibiades_mystery]

You're wrong

And I think you know it.

The notion that black folks only started using the word after "Richard Pryor" came back from Africa is so fucking ludicrous and ahistorical that it hardly bears comment.

"But this self-criticism is not limited to Blacks just more popualr in them and given much more publicity. This is found in the East Asian community, found in the Hispanic community and even Poor white community."

Who said it wasn't?

[Number23]

40. Hi Vaberella

Your comments are very nicely written. But I could not disagree with you more.

I'm a black chick, born and raised in the South, and have heard black folks use the N word more times than I could ever count. And your suggestion that it's a cultural phenomenon brought on by black comedians a la Richard Pryor doesn't make much sense. I remember being a little girl and visiting my great-grandmother in Macon, GA and she called EVERYBODY a n*gg. And the older she got, the more people got called that.

My grandaddy, a college educated black man who'd seen more heartache and been through more crap than a man of his integrity and caliber should ever have been, called his brothers, friends, cousins and every black person with a Y chromosome a n*gg. Hell, truth be told when I'm listening to a certain type of music or feeling particularly frisky, I've been known to emit the unmentionable utterance my damn self. But, like most black people, I would never do it in mixed company.

But one area that we do whole-heartedly agree on is your characterization of the good Rev. Jackson. Buffoon is definitely a word I'd use to describe him as well. :)

[Terran]

55. You're missing a basic piece of information here...

And sorry in advance but I have to spell these words out to be clear:

"Nigga" (what Jesse Jackson muttered to himself) and "nigger" are two *entirely different words* with different usages. Jesse Jackson most certainly did NOT use the latter to refer to Obama. He wasn't even referring to Obama, period. He was talking about Obama telling black people what to do, and he used the word "niggas" to describe black people in the sentence. The use of "nigga" in black slang (and no I'm not talking about Amercians who recently came from Africa or from the Caribbean, only those with many generations of American ancestry) is very nuanced; it has many different applications and meanings, and sometimes it's just dependent of tone of voice. It can be a positive or a negative thing or somewhere in between. But none of its uses bears any realtionship to the meaning of the word "nigger".

In my opinion, Jackson used it in this case to heighten the distiction he apparently sees between Obama and 'regular' black people. Here, "niggas" denotes those people who *do* get talked down to routinely, the downtrodden, the poor, the people on whose behalf Jackson has been struggling for decades.

I'm not condoning what he said, or trying to explain why he said it (I think there is some jealousy there, for one thing). But please people, let us learn to distinguish at least the basic differences between these words. It's not easy to penetrate all the nuances of "nigga"; I've lived with a politically and culturally aware black man for 23 years and I can't say I have...but I have a gut instinct for it at this point.

[LWolf]

67. That's an important distinction,

and one that will probably need to be explained and discussed for years to come.

Meanwhile, a question:

The news reports I read didn't distinguish between "nigga" and "nigger." They referred to "the 'N' word."

Which word were they reporting? And, do they make that distinction, or are they likely to report "nigga" as "nigger," literally and/or figuratively?

In the present day U.S., when people read "the 'N' word," which word, or usage, are they likely to interpret?

I don't rush to judge Jackson. I'm not going to take sides between the two of them. How much of the reaction is a political defense of Obama, how much is taking sides just to take sides, and how much is based in personal principle?

I guess that's more than "a question," lol. Share your thinking if you like; I'm fine with leaving them open to ponder.

[alcibiades_mystery]

76. My initial post simply assumes this distinction

I guess I should have made that more clear.

(I figured most white folks would at least know that). :-)

[Terran]

81. Reporting the word

IMO, the MSM won't openly recognize the distinction here, so any use of "nigga" automatically gets reported as "nigger". Certainly when anyone uses the phrase, "N-word", these days they intend to refer to "nigger", which I think is okay. But I tend to doubt the honesty of some news outlets, though, in a case like this, where they accuse Jackson of calling Obama a "nigger" (the misreporting of what he said aside). I don't think the media are *that* ignorant of the difference; after decades of hip hop, how could they be?

It's a complicated question, because some people genuinely have no idea there is a difference, and that's ok; education is good. But some people pretend they don't know the difference as part of the normal strategy of racists and wackjobs: deliberate obtuseness. Like, I can't be blamed for being an asshole if I rant and rave about something in feigned innocence of the truth.

I hope this won't sound patronizing to anyone here, but as I have been around a whole lot of black people the past two decades, I have developed a huge appreciation for the ability of African-American culture to use English in new and unexpected ways, and to add new nuances to words. "Nigga" is, IMO, one of the most amazing examples of this.

It can denote the deepest depths of male friendship, as when one man beams at another, places his hand over his heart and address the other man as "my nigga!" It can denote the withering scorn of a woman for a man whose done something pathetic and stupid in front of her, when she tells him, "Nigga please!". It's also good for commenting on the crass behavior of a whole group of people, say, people behaving rudely at a party: "Niggas ain't sh*t." And then there's the way I think Rev. Jackson meant it, which was to describe the group in a defensive way, as people who are used to receiving second-class treatment. The subtext there is that all black men (not sure it applies to women so much), no matter how well educated and wealthy and successful, always end up being the "nigga" at some point because they've been forced into that position.

It's actually kind of a shock to hear he used that phrase; Rev. Jackson has a very public persona that he reserves for white America, and it doesn't include speaking candidly about other black people the way an "average" black person might do. Certainly brought the man down to earth for me.

[LWolf]

83. I find your discussion of the terms, and the meanings,

one of the most interesting, and productive, I've listened to in a long while.

Thanks!

[Terran]

88. Most welcome

and thank you!

[Runcible Spoon]

32. thanks for typing that.

I am too tired for flames to get into DU's problematic, unrealistic, and jumpy attitudes towards race.

[cbc5g]

36. Well you've got a point..most of my black friends in college say it to eachother all the time

and I mean ALL THE TIME. Especially when we are smoking pot. Maybe two or three times or more in a sentence. LOL I've even been called it and I'm white.

[flyarm]

39. considering Obama is half white ..does that apply to him?????? eom

[alcibiades_mystery]

43. Race is a social effect, not a biological category

Conclusion #1: You're only as "white" as you are perceived to be when the cops pull you over at 2 in the morning.

Conclusion #2: Race involves cultural literacies and knowledges developed in real encounters.

Only fools parcel out race in America by measuring bloodlines. Race happens in real social encounters, and that's the only meaning of race that's worth a damn. It's not DNA, but history, that determines the way race operates. Put another way, phenotype is only important because it produces real social effects in practice. White folks have trouble understanding black culture largely because they are isolated from encounters with it at the level of lived experience, or everyday life. The same is not true generally of black folks with respect to white culture, although differences emerge here as well; this is the whole meaning of double consciousness as described by W.E.B. DuBois: Black folks are forced to experience life in both hegemonically white culture and in their minority culture. From this perspective, no, it wouldn't be true of Obama, since "half white" is a biological descriptor: Obama experienced the world as an African American in every encounter he ever had with anybody. (And don't give me "I just treat people as people...I'm colorblind!" nonsense: 1) No you don't; 2) You couldn't if you wanted to; 3) It's not up to YOU anyway. You don't get to choose out of history.) But more importantly, Obama - as de facto (if not de ovo) black - doesn't need lessons in black cultural forms. Indeed, he is quite adept at translating these forms for white audiences and making them palatable (the African American sermonic tradition inflects his whole rhetorical strategy, for instance).

So, no.

[H2O Man]

41. Valid points.

I think it is interesting to keep a mental record of those DUers who are so deeply offended by Jesse Jackson. I think very highly of him; I also think very highly of Barack Obama. Sometimes I think that many of those who are "outraged" by Jesse do not think highly of either him or Barack.

[ecstatic]

49. You are right, alcibiades, but

If I was the one going on the show with Jesse that day, and he whispered those things to me, assuming that I would be in agreement, I would probably nod and be cordial, but my inner thoughts would be of surprised disgust and disappointment.

His comments, uttered on Fox News of all places, reveal an inner self loathing (or is it smug superiority?) which is shocking when you consider what his role is supposed to be: A champion of civil rights!

No, Jesse, Barack is not telling "N*****s How to Behave." You heard the snippet about absent fathers and it struck a nerve with YOU because you, a so called reverend, were one of those absent fathers who thought you could secretly hide a baby you had on the side if you paid the mother enough $$$$. To be honest, I lost a lot of respect for you when that happened and now, you're only confirming my previous suspicions about you.

[alcibiades_mystery]

50. What indicates self-loathing? The word itself?

I don't think so. These things mean differently in different contexts (like all language). I know people hate to hear that, because they like to reduce meaning to a fixed thing, and then evaluate it according to some imaginary "equality" (The classic objection being "You mean THEY can say it, but WE can't? How is that FAIR???"). But language simply doesn't work that way. You can't attribute an equality of meaning to the phenomena of language anymore than you can attribute an equality of force to the phenomena of evolution. Meaning is always contextual, and the history of race and racism is necessarily part of that context. Consider the following two cases:

Jay-Z gets up on stage at a concert mostly attended by African Americans and yells "You n*ggas ready to roll?"
Paul Simon gets up on stage at a concert mostly attended by African Americans and yells "You n*ggas ready to roll?"

The effect of these utterances will be drastically different, even though the utterance itself is the same. We all know this. The objection that the effect shouldn't be different because the utterance is the same? It's ridiculous, really. The effect is different because of densely packed and complex historical factors that we can't will away by proclamation. You don't get to choose out of history, and history determines meaning. You get to argue against something, to be sure, but your argument doesn't happen in a vacuum. It happens in the world as it is with its complexities of history and meaning. We too easily transpose the social effect of meaning on to the word itself. It's an illusion, and a silly one, really.

[cyndensco]

72. Paul Simon?

Really? Now that would piss me off.

I saw him once in concert. There were only a sprinkling of us and THANK GOD he refrained from using that word. :)

[ecstatic]

82. No, not the word itself, the overall content of his statements

I could see if Obama were carrying on like Bill Cosby or something, but geez... I'm really surprised that Jackson would go there.

His interpretation of Obama's Father's Day speech reveals a lot. I think he also resents the fact that Obama is of mixed race and heritage and doesn't think Obama is "black enough" to be considered the first black president or to even speak on black issues.

[jeffrey_X]

51. "overwhelming majority of African Americans"

Really?

I'm white, but wife is African American and no one in her family or her friends or any of my friends that are AA use the N-word. I think the overwhelming majority of low class AA's might use the word, but that's awfully large brush you are painting with.

[alcibiades_mystery]

52. I'm not talking about constant use

I said "at least occasionally."

That includes moments of anger, levity among an in-group, etc. I think you have no basis for saying "no one in her family and friends or any of my friends," etc. Just because you're not privy to it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I'll grant you your wife, since you would have occasion to see her responses in very intimate settings, but even there, I doubt it, to be perfectly honest.

And I think the claim stands.

I'm not sure what you mean by "low class AA's," in any case.

[Terran]

57. If they use it, it's probably not around you.

My partner is black and I've been around his family for 23 years, plus all the friends et al. It's my experience that many black people will say things among themselves that they feel aren't quite polite to say in front of white people (politeness is not the only motive, either).

[LWolf]

89. "low class?"

You offer up evidence for a hypothesis I've had for a couple of decades now.

Racism is real. I know that. There seems to be something inherently human about needing to gang together and "dis" other groups. As our society has evolved, though, racism often seems more about culture and class than skin color.

Blacks who are acculturated into the mainstream are "higher class" than those that aren't.

There is an inherent bigotry in that whole concept that is repulsive.

[treestar]

66. That sounds almost elitist

I see I should feel inferior, since there's so much I "can't handle." What is the point of this kind of condescension? Is it going to improve race relations in some way? :wtf:

[alcibiades_mystery]

75. Yeah, you're the victim...

:eyes:

It's a pretty simple principle: oppressed groups traditionally keep their internal conflicts INTERNAL in order to present a unified front. In African American culture, the history is even more clear: any self-criticism is immediately seized on by the dominant white culture as evidence that it's own claims about black culture are true. This dual phenomena - African American guardedness about internal self-criticism, and the dominant culture's use of such criticism as a wedge - can be observed back to the slavery period and continues to this day. It has very little to do with whether YOU "feel" inferior or not. It is a well-documented historical phenomenon.

Sorry to burst your egomaniacal bubble.

[CreekDog]

29. Jesse's a bad example when it comes to racial slurs

and this is incompatible with his role as a civil rights leader.

[Moloch]

34. Wow. Just wow.

What a sad, bitter old man. Kind of like a Democratic mccain.

[DaveinMD]

35. the more Jackson criticizes Obama

the better it is for Obama.

[Tutonic]

37. Can we move along? There is nothing more to this story. People

need to stop piling on a nonstory. How does this story help or hurt Obama or what is going on at the gas pump. This is pure distraction brought to you by the Australian version of a lizard-Rupert Murdoch.

[grantcart]

38. well if you google around and see the whole statement that was alleged to have been said

about Obama by Jackson - the "N" word was the least of it.

It was a sad and petty outburst by someone who isn't as smart as the person we once knew him as.

[bklyncowgirl]

42. I tend to agree with you Grantcart, what the hell has happened to Jesse?

Talk about feeding Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity talking points.

Short of this being something cooked up by the Obama campaign as a way to distance Barack from some of the old line Civil Rights leaders who are deeply distrusted by some white people I have trouble understanding what's going on here.

Deeply disappointed in a man I once supported for president.

[greguganus]

45. Jesse feels he's losing his audience to Obama. Wonder what he will do next? n/t

[dkf]

48. I've only heard about "nuts" comment and now this n-word.

Is there more?

[Marrah_G]

61. Please read the entire quote

He did not refer to Obama as a N*****. He used it in a generic way. Here is the quote "Barack...he's talking down to black people...telling n—s how to behave." There is a big difference.

Now, I don't agree with what Jesse said. But this was an off the air conversation and I hope every Dem from now on stays away from Fox.

[grantcart]

77. did you actually read the entire quote?

maybe they are adding more but one I read had to do with 'half breed' etc. it made the 'n' world look harmless

[Alter Ego]

47. The more Jackson appears to dislike Obama I think the more people will like him.

[LWolf]

53. This mostly caucasian woman wishes

that black people would come to consensus on the word "nigger."

I was raised to shun that word as "hate speech." And, the way it was used at the time, it WAS hate speech.

When I heard it used in the black community, and by some black performers, I was offended. But then it was explained to me that they were "reframing" the use of the word. Taking it over, so to speak.

It was also explained to me by many that it's okay for blacks to use the word, but not for whites.

Here's a 15 yo piece on that very subject:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE1D81F38F937A15752C0A965958260

Now I hear that Jackson and Sharpton have both said the word should NEVER be used. I think.

I won't ever use the word to refer to a human being. For me, it carries the baggage of hate, and needs to be left behind. Personally, I think that the potential for hateful use outweighs the artistic "reframing" or cultural uses that might make it more acceptable. It needs to be retired, period. But I'm a caucasian woman, and my pov, while valid, shouldn't be the one that matters.

Meanwhile, I wish blacks themselves would come to consensus. After all, they are the stakeholders. I'd respect whatever they, as a racial group, decided, just as I now respect the various differences of opinion on the use of the word.

Until there is consensus, I can't, in good conscience, be offended at a black man using the word in private or public discourse.

<snip>

The city resolution calling for the moratorium traces the etymology of the word from the Latin "niger," meaning black, to its first documented written use in 1786 as a term slave masters used to label their African slaves.

Use of the word by blacks exploded with the rise of rap music in recent years, and some black comedians like Chris Rock continue to use it in their routines.

"What, is there a fine? Am I going to get a ticket?" Rock mocked when asked about the City Council move. "Do judges say, '10 years, nigger!"'

Rock said politicians were trying to divert attention from real problems: "Enough real bad things happen in this city to worry about how I am going to use the word."

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/new-york-bans-nigger-slur/2007/03/01/1172338762050.html

[Terran]

58. Your wish...

is a lot like wishing white people would come to a consensus on their racism. Are we all gonna be totally free of it, or can we all just succumb to a little racism now and then, without, you know, being violent. Not going to ahppen.

And anyway, it's a moot point--please read my post #55. "Nigga" and "nigger" are two different words.

[LWolf]

65. You're right, of course.

Wishing something were so doesn't make it real.

If it did, EVERYONE, of any race, would be totally free of racism.

I don't want to succumb to "a little racism now and then." I try to stay aware, and to pay attention to myself; to examine any possible hidden sources, and evict them when warranted.

Is it okay to wish we could all do the same?

It would move us forward, at least.

[ashrob123]

63. There is a consensus

White people should not say it under any circumstances. There is no reason for you to worry about any other subsequent consensus as you are "mostly Caucasian".

[LWolf]

64. If that's true,

then why are so many white people taking sides over Jackson's remarks?

If I didn't keep running into people, here and in real life, taking sides and eager to fight about it, I never would have been "worried."

[npincus]

54. NO- your subject line is FICTION.

Jackson referred to the totality of black people as "N_____s" with respect to Obama talking down to them. Why did you post this?

[Milo_Bloom]

59. So?

[sniffa]

60. Eh, who cares?

:shrug:

[Marrah_G]

62. Well, it makes good food for the drama queens!

[anonymous171]

69. RACIST!

Wait a minute...

:crazy:

[Bjorn Against]

85. Did anyone actually read the article before they jumped on Jackson for this?

CHICAGO - The Rev. Jesse Jackson used the N-word during a break in a TV interview where he criticized presidential candidate Barack Obama, Fox News confirmed Wednesday.


The longtime civil rights leader already came under fire this month for crude off-air comments he made against Obama in what he thought was a private conversation during a taping of a "Fox & Friends" news show.

In additional comments from that same conversation, first reported by TVNewser, Jackson is reported to have said Obama was "talking down to black people," and referred to blacks with the N-word when he said Obama was telling them "how to behave."

Though a Fox spokesman confirmed the TVNewer's account to The Associated Press, the network declined to release the full transcript of the July 6 show and did not air the comments.

So Fox News says that Jackson said this, but they won't release the transcript or tape to prove their allegations. Does anyone have a better source than this, and if not then why are so many people trusting the words of a Fox News executive?

[crankychatter]

86. Samuel or Jesse?

just askin'

[undeterred]

87. I get tired of people who want to be called "reverend"

but talk trash when they don't think anyone important is listening.