DNCer's respond to PUMAs

[AllentownJake]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/

Donna Brazile: "Stop the hate. Not sure if you know, but we are keeping copies of all these emails in the archives. Yes, you are not going to get away with pretending to be for Hillary. She is a leader of the Dem party.”

Former DNC chair Don Fowler: "I must confess a bit of fatigue and irritation with people who continue to carp, complain, and criticize the results of the primary and lay down conditions for their support. The Los Angeles Lakers didn’t establish conditions to recognize the Boston Celtics as NBA Champions; Roger Federer did not demand concessions before recognizing that Rafael Nadal defeated him at Wimbledon.

California DNCer Garry Shay: “The racist bullsh**I have gotten from my fellow Clinton supporters has been enough to make me puke. You have a choice. No one would be forcing you. It is a choice. A choice you will have to live with. 100 years in Iraq if McCain gets elected. Thousands more dead American Soldiers."

WA Democratic Chairman Dwight Pelz: "Man, you have to chill. Try tennis."

CA superdelegate Steven Ybarra: “Good for you, when the fascists come in the middle of the night to take you to a concentration camp, remember how you voted. Take me off your whiner list . . .then tell them to stop calling me telling me that they are going to vote for mccain. i am would rather vote for a rabid dog than any Fascist republican like mccain. read the declaration of independence."

DNCer Ben Johnson: "When God was giving out brains…you thought he said trains…and you missed yours. Who gives a croc what you do, its your business fool."

AZ superdelegate Carolyn Warner: “GOD WILL GUIDE THE HAND OF JUDGMENT THAT WILL STRIKE YOU DOWN! Do not email us again. Thank you."

:rofl:

[beachmom]

1. I'm beginning to question how many of these people are really Democrats.

And the rest are unserious about the issues; otherwise they would not be so stuck on one personality.

[Arkansas Granny]

4. I'm beginning to question how many of these people are really Hillary supporters.

If they were, they would follow her lead and support Obama as she is doing and as she has asked her supporters to do.

[DevonRex]

55. I think that is the case with some of them, but not all. Like that

delegate who said she was going to vote for McCain (I can't remember the state) in the GE. Surely she was a democrat until now or else she wouldn't have been chosen to be a delegate in the first place.

I don't know what's going on exactly. Maybe there is a small group of Hillary supporters that have just worked themselves up into a frenzy over this and now they've been joined by republicans who want to throw gasoline on the fire.

As far as I'm concerned, nothing will appease these people short of Hillary getting the nomination at the convention. And because of that, there is just nothing to say to them.

I don't buy their plea for respect. After having been called a Koolaid drinker and after all the sarcastic claims that we think Obama is the Messiah and all that crap, I don't really feel the need to give these people who would vote for McCain any respect. I don't respect my own family members who are voting for McCain. Why should I respect these McCain supporters that I don't even know? If they're democrats, then they should know better. If they're republicans stirring up trouble then they deserve nothing but contempt.

[sybylla]

80. Actually, that state couldn't be sure she was a Dem

That state was Wisconsin, my state, and the delegate was not necessarily a Dem to begin with.

Wisconsin has an open primary and, because of that, the DNC requires that we open our delegate selection process (caucuses) to all voters. We have no party registration in this state. The only way we know anyone is a Dem (beyond the 8000+ of us who are dues paying members) is to take their word for it.

The people who apply to be delegates must sign forms that affirm they are Dems and that they will vote for the eventual Dem nominee in November.

Now the fact that the woman insisted on calling the party the "Democrat Party" incessantly during the meeting in which she was pleading her case, even after being corrected on it at least twice, suggests to me she was not at least of the caliber of Democrat we prefer to have represent us.

She put her initial pronouncement of support for McCain down to being emotional about Hillary leaving. That was on June 13 - coincidentally the same day the Democratic Party of Wisconsin started their convention. Odd she would chose that day - a day she would get loads of press in the papers right beside the Dem Convention.

Worse yet, though she claimed her pronouncement was simply an emotional response, she still refused to support Sen. Obama 6 weeks later. That, by my definition, in this world, at this time, after 8 years of the chimp and his criminal cohorts, says she is not a Democrat.

You don't get to represent Democrats in Wisconsin if you're not a real Democrat. Revoking her credentials was the only alternative.

[DevonRex]

84. Thanks for the information. Every time I hear a woman blame

something on an "emotional response" I cringe. We have worked too long and hard for equality to let people like her make it appear as if we are all emotional wrecks, led around by our hormones or something.

And yes, what you posted certainly does indicate that she wasn't a democrat to begin with. How on EARTH did she get as far as she did? It just pisses me off that a few nuts have screwed with our party like this.

Okay, rant over. :)

[sybylla]

99. I agree wholeheartedly on the emotional BS

What has happened to the feminist movement?

[eridani]

161. Wonder why none of these "glass ceiling" feminists say that they'll vote for McKinney?

McSame is preferable to a woman who actually really is a feminist?

[mopinko]

176. really good point. nt

[Raineyb]

177. Nope

I don't wonder at all.
:cough:racism:cough:

Nope not wondering here.

Regards

[eridani]

189. Oopsie. Sort of slipped my mind that she's black in addition to being female

Looks like race is the dealbreaker here for sure.

[VeraAgnes]

6. I take what they say seriously....

I am not about to disenfranchise true Democrats by insulting them, calling them republicans because they are speaking out. It's not my style.

Reminds me of the 80's when men would say to an irritated woman; "Oh, it must be that time of the month again".

Same insult.

[AllentownJake]

7. They've had two months

and they aren't flexible with their demands....go vote for McCain is what I say to them.

[Marrah_G]

9. once the convention is over, reality will really hit

They will realize what a nightmare McCain is and come to their senses.

[VeraAgnes]

13. A few say vote mccain out of anger and an "I'll show you attitude but most just want respect

for Hillary supporters....To see posters keep calling them republicans only deepens the wounds and not promote healing. We are doing Unity Meetings in my County....we realize there are wounds to heal, and respect to be rendered.

[geek tragedy]

17. Hillary supporters are respected.

It's the ones who simply despise Obama that are whining about this supposed lack of respect.

[AllentownJake]

24. The RFD in my county and the Political Director

for the Obama campaign were both working for hillary till she conceded. What more "respect" do they want?

Her people are coming onboard are campaign and being welcomed...what do they want a cookie?

[madfloridian]

40. Respect??? See the video of how they shouted Dean down...

and he gave them nothing but respect.

Dean in Charlotte

Watch it. They looked foolish, and he showed them great respect by stopping his speech and answering their questions.

They then posted all over their cute little blogs what a fool he was.

[VeraAgnes]

61. I'll have to look at it later....

I'm at the Office and we can not play video's. I'll look tonight and get back with you.

[DevonRex]

57. Hillary supporters have my respect, as long as they have

decided to support the nominee. If they haven't, they're deserving of no more respect than I give my republican family members. I respect them as people. I do NOT respect their politics at ALL. This isn't a game. It's serious business that could result in a catastrophe if McCain is elected.

[eridani]

162. I'd respect them if they said that they would vote for Cynthia McKinney

Anyone who would pick McCain over McKinney is a Republican, period.

[Lilith Velkor]

173. Yup. n/t

[Raineyb]

178. So would I n/t

Regards

[iconicgnom]

179. you say: they say they'll vote McCain but just want respect from Dems?

:rofl:

PUMAs and their apologists are following a path outlined by Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Coulter, Malkin, and the FAUX crew. They're guided by hate and intent on disruption and the defeat of the Dem candidate, regardless that some have credentials of past work in various positions for Dems (delegates, executive, etc). They hardly merit respect of any kind.

If Hillary's "base support" can't clearly distinguish from such as these, she's got a big big problem, and the problem isn't rooted in Obama, Pelosi, or any other Dem.

[JTFrog]

21. WTF?

Good luck trying to convince me that "true Democrats" would actually vote for a disgusting republican Bush clone because their candidate lost the primary.

[burythehatchet]

26. grrrrrrrr

on second thought I'll just bite my tongue

[Marrah_G]

30. Glad you deleted it.

We all have to find ways to disagree over issues without lashing out at each other. We are all on the same team.

[VeraAgnes]

62. Thank You for your peaceful

mediation. You are terrific!

[Kittycat]

33. True democrats would get behind the party nominee and stop this bullshit.

[Alter Ego]

50. This ceased to be a legitimate point a long time ago

and these people can go vote for McCain if they're so butthurt about Hillary losing but won't support Obama just because he's the one who beat her.

[Chulanowa]

58. There's a difference between being irritated, and attempting political blackmail

These cheesefuckers aren't happy with our candidate... Well, tough shit, it's who we have. If they want to take McCain or nobody, rather than the candidate who's only real difference from Clinton is his skin color and scrotum, then they can take their racist, sexist asses over to the Republicans.

[beachmom]

65. Um, hello, on MadFlo's thread, one admitted they voted for Bush in '00 and '04.

And yes, those who are Democrats but bolt on personality deserve to be called on their total lack of principles.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

95. As a woman and a hardcore feminist

I say that any woman who votes for McCain is a traitor and a masochistic fool. Period.

[Rose Siding]

147. Huh? Standing up against attacks on Obama is like saying they're on the rag?

That's a stretch.

[AZBlue]

184. I don't believe they are Hillary Clinton supporters and/or Democrats.

[ericgtr]

10. How can you question this when they obviously aren't dems?

They are a bunch of nutjob right wing hacks and making any claims otherwise is just bullshit, their actions speak for them.

[VeraAgnes]

15. Please stop the insults.....

They are Democrats who have worked and donated without question to the Party for YEARS! Your comment is rude and ignorant.

[geek tragedy]

18. Why are you defending McCain-supporting members

of the anti-Obama hate cult?

They are not behaving respectably or respectfully, so they are not entitled to respect.

[VeraAgnes]

29. I'm respecting Democrats who are voicing their

concerns ...I do not see most of them as hateful to Obama at all....not at all, they only want respect by the Obama camp is what they tell me. They don't like mccain at all but they have been hurt by the Obama supporters.....so the vote maybe a protest vote. I don't want that to happen at all....So, I want to listen and heal; find peace again in our Party.

We have one of two Unity Meetings at our County Democratic Head Quarters....the talk and tone as I see here on DU is not a progressive unity tone.

It saddens me to hear such hate for fellow Democrats. :cry: :cry: :cry:

[AllentownJake]

32. Hurt by Obama Supporters?

Please explain this and if you say internet sites that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my entire life.

When they say their willing to put the country in the hands of McCain for 4 years it better because Obama supporters actually didn't something other than snark at them.

[Marrah_G]

35. You know what she is talking about. nt.

[AllentownJake]

Like the Hillary supporters

that covered my friend's car with Hillary stickers in the real world or somebody made them look foolish on the internets?

When you say hurt by Obama supporters you better mean in the real world not cyber space.

[Kittycat]

36. Fellow democrats don't try to sabatoge the party.

Their candidate ran, and as tight as it was, she lost. That's how it goes - there can be only one winner.

[ericgtr]

44. I'm sorry but that is just bullshit. Here let me help you out

http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/forumdisplay.php?f=84 have a look at the anti Obama topics on the first page alone, and these people are the very core of the radical PUMA group.

[DevonRex]

59. I don't respect anyone who would vote for McCain for ANY reason.

And I think that any democrat who would vote for McCain is even more slimy than a republican who will vote for McCain.

[madwivoter]

64. How exactly do they measure respect?

You claim they are still seeking respect from the Obama campaign, how exactly can the Obama campaign and Obama supporters show their respect? I think they'll need to be specific.

A few things:

a) If they truly don't like McCain (I'm not sure how you are able to speak for them?), they won't vote for him.
b) If they vote for McCain claiming it's a 'protest' vote, that's their choice and no one can take that from them.
c) If they consider themselves Democrats, they will vote for our Democratic nominee come November. Period.

If you can get get an answer from them about how we can all show our respect to them, you'll have solved a big problem.

When you talk to them, I'd like you to let them know that I'd also like some respect. This respect can be shown by not participating in anti-Obama smears, websites, emails, rallies etc. (that also goes for other Democrats they're protesting against, see: Howard Dean).

[DevonRex]

77. Excellent post. And I agree. Just how do we show

respect? How long do we have to coddle adults who supported another candidate and who are now threatening to vote for McCain?

Just what will satisfy these people? They are actively working against our nominee. That puts them in the repuke column as far as I'm concerned and therefore they get no respect from me.

I have the utmost respect for supporters of other candidates who now support Obama. They know what is at stake in this election and they're doing the right thing. They don't have to like him. They don't even have to work their tails off for him. But he has their vote. And they do NOT work against our nominee. There is a huge difference between these democrats and those who are fomenting divisiveness and hate. The former deserves respect and empathy, because we have all been where they are now. The latter deserves contempt and nothing more, for they know that what they're doing will kill American servicemen and women in Iraq and elsewhere.

[madwivoter]

86. Thanks JenniferZ

The fact that these people are actively campaigning against the Democratic party is enough for me to question their motives, and the ways in which they are voicing their dissent are red flags to me.

That old "fool me once..." saying fits here :)

I'm not sure how much a reasonable person would expect at this point in the process. It seems to me that short of something tangible, these people cannot be satisfied.

I also recognize and respect the supporters of all other candidates who are now supporting Obama, they can see the bigger picture and realize what's at stake.

Anyone who is willing to throw away the next 4 years to make a statement needs to assess the damage that's been done over the last 7+ years and consider how much more can and will be done on their behalf if McCain wins in November
:scared:

[Arugula Latte]

153. Oh please ... I've never seen anybody else's supporters acting like a bunch of whiny crybabies

(and, yeah, I know, these are only a small portion of Hillary supporters, the vast majority of whom have gotten behind Obama) ... These people need to grow up and fuck off. My first choice wasn't nominated lots of times ... It never occurred to me to not support the person who was the Democratic nominee. I have zero sympathy for these asswipes. Zero.

[creeksneakers2]

157. Respect?

Is that another way of saying they want their asses kissed?

Part of the way I award respect is by my perception of a person's motives. Choices a person makes reveal what really matters to that person. What really matters to somebody who was for Hillary Clinton and now John McCain? If not liberal goals or Democratic victories, just what are they here for? If I ever get a respectable explanation of that then I'll start to respect them again. So far, it looks like what really matters to them is something they don't want to admit. Perhaps what matters most to them is getting their asses kissed.

[eridani]

165. Cynthia McKinney is a real protest vote. John McCain is not

What's so hard to understand about that?

[Hugabear]

167. "I do not see most of them as hateful to Obama at all"

You haven't visited any of the PUMA websites, have you? They're nothing but anti-Obama hate, pure vile. Honestly, you'd think you were on a freeper board.

And as far as "not liking" McCain, they sure are as enthusiastic as hell about him.

[babylonsister]

175. Wake up and smell the roses. They are not Democrats, and you

should be ashamed OF THEM if that's their attitude.

[AllentownJake]

23. They are idiots

who are willing to vote against their own interest either for a cult of personality, racism, or because they were never democrats to begin with.

[VeraAgnes]

37. Do you want votes to go to McCain? You are definitely encouraging them o do just that

I don't!

I will treat them with respect, listen to their concerns and validate their feelings.....they are Democrats and will soon heal if we attempt to render compassion.

[geek tragedy]

39. They hate Barack Obama. Full stop.

When they decide to stop hating, then we can talk.

[Marrah_G]

42. Liking Obama is not a requirement.

An "Anyone-but-McCain" vote is just as good.

[geek tragedy]

45. They don't have to like Obama.

They need to stop peddling anti-Obama hate propaganda 24/7.

[Marrah_G]

47. The point is that talking does more good then trying to force it.

Once the convention is over, reality will start to sink in. Those who are dems will realize the scariness of a McCain presidency and will vote for Obama.

[AllentownJake]

51. Evidently

by the responses of members of the DNC...the party differs on you opinion.

[Marrah_G]

54. Rather, those members of the DNC disagree

Unlike the Repugs, we as Democrats often have different views on a few topics while we agree on many, many more.

[VeraAgnes]

66. I have thrown all my hope into the

post convention phase....I even took my vacation time during the convention so that I could rebuild my hope and enthusiasm. At present, I'm focusing on local Democratic Campaigns so that I actually avoid the "in-fighting". August 25th can't come fast enough.... I don't even come here to DU much for it upsets me..... :cry:

[Alter Ego]

52. I'm not going to kowtow to a bunch of temperamental jerks

who want "conditions" and "respect" because their candidate lost. They can either support the guy who shares 85-90% of what they would have gotten with Hillary or they can go vote for Gramps and get four more years of the same shit.

[whatchamacallit]

53. If the remarks of someone on the internet can sway their vote, then they have shit for brains.

The world is in trouble, if their vote is based on whether or not someone on an internet forum hurt their feelings, they've proven they're total losers, undeserving of respect.

[Mojorabbit]

56. They are going to vote

for McCain. Let them. I say good riddance. They act like a two year old throwing a tantrum and they get no respect from me.

[DevonRex]

60. Validate their feelings???? OMG. This is not junior high here.

If they would vote for McCain for any reason then I don't give a rat's ass about their "feelings." How juvenile. How petty. How extraordinarily disgusting.

They know what is at stake in this election. If they would vote for an endless war, thousands more dead, no health care, no GI bill, and every other evil idea the republicans have, then they deserve nothing from me. Nothing at all but contempt.

[polmaven]

146. May I ask you

how you feel about someone who would prefer that Senator Obama choose a Republican VP to Senator Clinton?

[DevonRex]

149. Absolutely the same way. NO republicans on the ticket. Not now.

Not ever. I just cannot understand that at all. A repug cabinet member that brings some expertise but who has to follow orders from the president would be okay, IMO. Not great, but okay. And if Obama were to put forward a republican name for, say, secretary of defense, he ought to put it out there before the GE so it'll get us some votes.

But, a republican one heartbeat away from the presidency? No way, no how.

Senator Clinton is a democrat. She has worked long and hard in the democratic party. I may not agree with her on everything, but then the only person who agrees with me on everything is, well, me. :)

I don't know how well they would work together because they are such strong people with strong personalities. LOL, even a bit of stubborn in there, too, both of them. But Senator Clinton would win my vote hands down for VP over any damned republican.

I'm so sorry for the rant but you touched a nerve. :)

[newmajority]

72. Validate their feelings?

These people believe the "Muslim" e mails, and that psychotic Larry Sinclair horseshit. They call Obama supporters a "cult" and then turn around and make stupid fucking chants like "Rise Hillary Rise". And that's a month and a half AFTER Hillary ended her campaign, mind you.

Am I supposed to "validate" that shit?

[Marrah_G]

76. Hello- Rise HIllary Rise was a poem by Maya Angelou

This was made DURING the primary.

DU has made it clear that the primaries are over. If you wish to continue the primary fight please go elsewhere and stop insulting the former Hillary supporters here.

[newmajority]

82. Maya Angelou probably had the best of intentions when she wrote it

And I would assume, a context within the reasonable bounds of sanity. But what I'm telling you, is that these PUMAbots are using it in a very "SIEG HEIL" sort of way, even now. I saw it with my own eyes in their chatroom the other day. While at the same time they were ripping the Hell out of Lanny Davis, who was one of Hillary's best friends, last time I checked, because he had the nerve to tell them that he was supporting the nominee.

Now what's more dangerous than a cult with a leader? A cult who's "leader" has rejected them, and now they think they're bigger than she is.

This isn't a "primary fight" either. This is a fight against a brainwashed group of psychotics who are being manipulated into causing a disaster in Denver. Not to threaten the nomination, because that's not happening. But to scare the Sheeple into voting Repuke. Just like they did in 1968.

Hillary supporters have moved on. They know I'm not talking about them. I could care less if I offend PUMAbots, because they offend me worse than Freepers do.

[Marrah_G]

91. That's the difference between you and I

I would never have been in their chat. I do not search the internet for people to be offended by.

Obama is the nominee. McCain is a fucking senile old man. A few dozen people are not going to change that. Why do you care what they say?

[newmajority]

94. So why do you post at CapitalHillbot forums then?

You wouldn't be in their chat, but you're registered at one of their boards?

[Marrah_G]

98. I registered there when it first opened during the primary

Since you are so fond of playing super-sleuth, why don't you tell me how many posts I have there and when the last time I posted was.

I am also a member of Progressive Independent, Democratic Warrior and Old Elm Tree. I rarely post to all but one of them.

You keep trying to paint me as some sort of troll- not enough of a Democrat. I have never bashed the Party or it's leaders. I have worked for the party, marched with fellow activists against the war, written letters, helped in any way I could. I shouldn't have to defend myself against you.

[newmajority]

103. I can't read any of your posts over there

Those chickenshit PUMAbots have deliberately concealed most of their forums, which is ridiculous because the ones they leave open are enough to expose the purpose of their board.

I'll accept your word that you have parted ways with that crowd, but that bring back the question of why you defend them, when you KNOW they are not friends of the Democratic party?

[Marrah_G]

104. Because not everyone there agrees on everything, just like here

Again- I have not defended them. If I was defending them I doubt they would be this pissed at me.... don't you?

I have time and again said what I think of their pov on this topic. But once again there are a group of people here ready to jump all over someone who thinks differently then they do. Perhaps if you listened more you would learn something. You might not agree with me on some things, but I bet we agree on most things.

At least I am honest. When I say something I mean it. You always know where I stand.

I choose to associate with many different people for many different reasons. I have found common ground with a number of people. Even when the Clinton / Obama wars were at their worst here I found common ground with some Obama supporters and formed friendships. You may wander through life with tunnel vision, but I do not.

And just to be clear: I did not cut ties with them. They cut ties with me.

[sniffa]

117. There's a way to read the hidden forums

If you were so inclined...

[newmajority]

131. Sure there is.

But I have enough e mail accounts as it is, and I really don't need to create another one, just to have it filled with PUMA shit. :rofl:

[sniffa]

133. Eh, I'm talking an easier way

that doesn't include joining. Besides, joining under an alias won't get you into the hidden forums.

[Marrah_G]

101. Apparently I am banned from CH now anyway.

You are so busy claiming I am one of them and you don't even realize that I've lost friends on that side as well for speaking my mind.

At least I am honest about what I think. I will never just hop n the bandwagon and spout whatever shit is popular this week.

[DevonRex]

113. Marrah, I think you're pretty brave, myself. I've always respected

your opinion. I know you don't care much for Obama. But I also know you're voting for him.

I'm sorry that you've lost friends over this. And forgive my language but that is pretty shitty of them. I know you're strong enough to deal with it, but it pisses me off that you have to.

Let me know if you're coming to the convention, by the way. We live in the metro Denver area...

[KAZ]

120. Agree. All except the living in Denver part. :)

[Marrah_G]

122. Nah I can totally understand why they did

I wish them no ill and hope that after the convention things will get back to some normalcy.

As with most people in my life, I have things I agree with and things I don't. The main thing is to focus on the positive.

I wish I could go to Denver. I'd love to have dinner with you :)

[DevonRex]

123. Well, if you do...

ever get out here you're always welcome in our home. And I'll even fix you a nice dinner. I got my mother-in-law's Italian recipes so be prepared to eat big. :)

[Marrah_G]

126. OOOO now I am hungry !

:hug:

[DevonRex]

134. Heh heh. Sorry about that...

and :hug: to you, too.

[SidneyCarton]

108. This is not an inquisition and you are not Torquemada.

If you wish to use such tactics, may I refer you to Free Republic, you will find many like minded zealots there who share your passion for purification.

[sniffa]

118. If I were you, I would have gone even more over the top

I mean, why stop there when you can include the Holocaust?

:shrug:

[SidneyCarton]

124. A little melodramatic, I agree.

I just get sick of this crap, there will always be differences of opinion, I myself have been accused of trying to enforce conformity. But there is criticizing gripers and there is leading "witch hunts" (With apologies to Marrah, who actually is a Wiccan) to get rid of posters with different points of view, that is not cool.

[Marrah_G]

127. Uh huh

Witch hunts are baaaaaaaaaaaaddddddddd !


:toast:

We may disagree on some things, but I would venture to guess everyone here agrees on more then they disagree on.

We all have the same goal...a Repuke free white house.

[newmajority]

143. Different points of view are fine

Advocating the sabotage of the Democratic party (and by extension, the continued slide into fascism) is not.

[pecwae]

168. It's over the top.

In a way it's rather sad that there are people who have nothing more pressing in their lives than to obsess about another's opinion on the Internets. It's become an immature game here to see who can take the credit for getting another member nuked. As if that credit will get them them something.

[pecwae]

169. Man, you are totally obsessed!

[Hugabear]

166. Bullshit. These are now self-proclaimed McCain supporters

Nobody who is openly advocating McCain deserves any respect on DU. Period.

The primaries are history. Hillary herself has urged her supporters to back Obama. These people are basically telling her "fuck you". They are not respecting her wishes. They are NOT Hillary supporters, they are now McCain supporters. I have to question anyone's motives who would abandon their "candidate" so quickly.

[LowerManhattanite]

85. It's called a “ruse”...or a “snipe hunt”—where people who mean us no good will...

...send us on a futile chase for something you can never achieve...and these clowns are playing the “waste time kowtowing to me as I throw up all manner of roadblocks to my voting in my interests, when I have NO INTENTION WHATSOEVER of voting for the nominee” game.

They want attention. They want to divert resources. They don't want the presumptive nominee anywhere near the White House and will do anything it takes to prevent it from happening.

These “so-called” lifetime Democrats who will NOW vote GOP because of what?

What, exactly?

What's the difference THIS TIME from all the others when there have been candidates we've been less than enthusiastic for, but voted Dem anyway?

Please. There are 100 days left. As these are supposedly mature folks (Note how they always rip younger voters in that McCain-ish “Get off my lawn!” tone), you'd think they'd be seasoned enough to understand the urgency of this election, and not be so damned self-centered and bitter to focus valuable time and resources on getting their egos stroked.

They need to grow the fuck up and consider the import of this election. I have two draft-age children. I know what's at stake. Everyone I know has their jobs on the line. Putting this country in the hands of a man who fairly crows about not knowing a damned thing about the staggering economy is suicidal.

Are the issues clear enough? Fuck ego. We have a country to save and time is short. Those who want us to d*ck around with ego-stroking DO NOT HAVE AMERICA'S BEST INTERESTS AT HEART.

End of story.

[Marrah_G]

92. Why are you so concerned about a few dozen disgruntled voters?

Seriously.... they can't do any damage. Obama has the nomination. McCain is senile. We have this.

[Lilith Velkor]

174. Their faith in Obama is weak

They think he's going to lose, so they want someone to blame.

Why the Republicans get a free pass is a mystery to me. :shrug:

[AZBlue]

187. It's not just a few dozen.

I thought that at first - then I looked into it. They are a rabid bunch that we should not ignore.

[sniffa]

116. BAM! There it is

Good post. :patriot:

[sniffa]

114. Zzzzzzzz

:boring:

Sorry if they're so fragile they need to be coddled. They can go fuck themselves.

[foo_bar]

25. how would you know what "they" are?

They are Democrats who have worked and donated without question to the Party for YEARS!

Link, or are you speaking for yourself?

Please, PUMA's keep up the enthusiasm, their are many Republicans out there who are sympathetic to your cause.

http://patriotcity.blogspot.com/2008/07/republican-convert-to-puma-ism.html

So “lifelong Democrat” Darragh Murphy not only confirmed that she gave a sizable donation to John McCain in 2000 (and never gave a penny to her “hero” Al Gore), but she also admitted that she voted for McCain in the primaries as well.** Confused? Well, you ought to be.

She’ll be on Fox & Friends this morning. I forwarded them all of this info, but I doubt they’ll do anything with it. Fox News has invested too much time pushing this bogus PUMA narrative. The news director at New England Cable News, however, thanked me for the info and forwarded it to the reporter who interviewed Murphy. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

http://www.rumproast.com/index.php/site/comments/puma_pacs_founder_darragh_murphy_proudly_presents_party_unity_my_ass_redux/

[ericgtr]

41. Ignorance? Believe me, this is not an issue of not understanding who these people are

Please, defend them all you like but it doesn't change the fact that they are making the likes of those at FOX news look like liberal leftists. I have never seen such anger and outrage from any group and I don't care what they've done in the past, they look like a bunch of petulant children that had their candy taken away now.

[Beacool]

107. Hear, hear!!!

They'll never get it. I'm not a PUMA (or I wouldn't even bother coming to this site), but I understand them.

Rightly or not, they feel that one more woman has been given the shaft and the promotion has gone to a lesser qualified man. The same crap that many of them have had happen in their own lives.

If this had been an election where the winner was clearcut (such as with Huckabee & McCain), I think that there wouldn't be so many hard feelings. These people would have been disappointed, but they would have readily endorsed the nominee just as they have done in previous elections.

But, many of her supporters think that the party leaders made a concerted effort to take the nomination away from her for various reasons. Some because they didn't want the Clintons in power anymore (such as Kennedy, Pelosi, Kerry, etc.) and others because they didn't dare deny an AA the nomination.

Either way, there are plenty of angry Hillary supporters out there. Will they get over it by November? Who knows.....

[Hugabear]

164. They can fucking GO TO HELL

They jumped ship for McCain rather quickly, don't you think? Even when their "hero", Hillary, urges them to support Obama, they basically tell her to go fuck herself. Does that sound like something a true Hillary supporter would do?

[AZBlue]

185. Got any proof of that?

[ihavenobias]

138. Oh, you won't get them to admit it though. They will INSIST they ARE Democrats...

Cenk of TYT had a guest on his show recently that was a PUMA, and .

[Coexist]

2. .

[Marrah_G]

3. .

[AspenRose]

5. They aren't Democrats.

.

[VeraAgnes]

8. Are they human or alien?

What are they since they vote democratic at every election........are they less than a person like a Florida or Michigan vote? If so, that is a DNC Rule I suppose.

[ericgtr]

14. They are reformed and will vote for McCain who is a republican

That would make them rebpublicans and nothing less.

Edit: typo

[SurfingAtWork]

20. Ok, right. So they're Democrats and have always voted

Democratic their entire lives, but now, in this election they plan on not supporting Obama. But they're democrats.. so I guess that makes them racist?

:shrug:

[ericgtr]

27. Not supporting Obama (D) and they ARE supporting McCain (R)

I never said a word about race, please don't put that on me. What I am saying is that it's clear they are voting republican and no self respecting democrat would vote for that crazy old dust farting war monger. They certainly have the right to claim whatever affiliation they like but their actions are much stronger.

[SurfingAtWork]

28. I don't disagree with you. I was responding to post #8, not yours.

:hi:

[ericgtr]

38. Doh!

Sorry about that.

[VeraAgnes]

73. Where do you see race as an issue?

I fail to understand your assertion.

[Raineyb]

96. I see race as an issue when people who claim to be "life long" Democrats

decide to vote for the candidate who represents views that are 180 degrees opposite from the views that they as a "life long" Democrat uphold because they can't get over the fact that their candidate lost.

People vote for candidates that lose all the time usually, they go on to get behind the nominee of their party. Especially if they are "life long" members. All of a sudden we have so called "life long" Democrats threatening to vote Republican. Did this happen in 2004? I don't think so. So what is the difference this time around?

Oh, I know, the nominee is a black man.

It looks to me that these Puma assholes are nothing more than a bunch of bigots who will pretend to be okay with having black people involved in the party as long as they don't decide to actually be the top person in it. Assuming, of course, that they are actual Democrats and not a bunch of Republican shills. We already know that Republicans have issues with race.

That was easy to see and I didn't even need a magnifying glass.

Regards

[VeraAgnes]

115. I disagee.............

I think you judge too harshly. It minimizes actual racism, which is an abomination in itself, so when the term is used so loosely in my opinion...it diminishes real situations that rise to racial discrimination and attacks.

[Raineyb]

132. Diminishes actual racism? We are talking about actual racism

I'm sorry if it doesn't jibe with your worldview to call a racist a racist but when someone deliberately undermines everything they claim to believe in and the only difference to speak of is a difference in skin color we are discussing racism.

Putting your head in the sand and pretending it's not there is not going to help anything. These Puma morons are either racists or Republicans. There is no if ands or buts about it otherwise there's no logical reason to jump from Clinton to McLame.

You cannot claim to be a Democrat and then vote for McLame because Clinton didn't win and claim you are voting your beliefs. The only beliefs that a vote for McLame expresses is the belief that it's better to have a doddering old white man in the White House than to allow a black man to occupy it. That is "actual" racism. Just because these PUMA fools aren't wearing hoods doesn't make their racism any less real or odious.

While I'm on the topic, calling out racism when some folks refuse to see it isn't the cause of racial discrimination and attacks. Racists don't need a reason to attack because they are hateful, spiteful, nasty, despicable people who think that in order to stop feeling like the small assholes that they are, they need to beat someone else down. Which, not surprisingly, also describes the PUMA dolts. Blaming people who point out racism for the actions of racists is like blaming homosexuals for getting beat up by homophobes. You're blaming the wrong person for the problem.

Regards

[Beacool]

140. I think that your oversimplifying the issue.

The main reason that those who claim to be lifelong Democrats say that they will not vote for Obama is not due to his race. Yes, of course there are racists who would never vote for a black man, or a woman for that matter, but they are the minority.

If Obama had risen through the ranks, had a hefty resume, had been the clearcut winner and had not become the presumptive nominee thanks to the SDs, none of these issues would have come up. Most of the reluctant Hillary supporters would have been disappointed, but would have backed him just as they had backed every other Dem nominee before him.

It is simplistic to label as racist or a Republican troll every Democrat who has genuine concerns about Obama's ability to handle the job given his very thin resume. Yes, he and Hillary agree on most issues, except for healthcare where her stance is the more progressive IMO. But, after his "adjustments" on various issues in the last few weeks and particularly after he voted yes on FISA, some who were on the fence are leary about supporting him.

[Raineyb]

152. Did you complain about the "thinness" of Edwards' resume when he ran in 2004?

I suspect not which is my point.

If Obama were a white man these PUMA morons wouldn't be pretending to be so concerned about the "thinness" of Obama's resume. You're accusation of oversimplification is crap.

What ranks exactly did Clinton rise through? Clinton moved to New York after leaving the White House and ran for Senate by having the party machine pave the way for her. New York was not short of Democrats who were willing to run for that Senate seat you know.

She then did one term as Senator. Granted that's a 6 years more than Obama did but Obama did hold office in Illinois before running for federal office. Clinton cannot say the same.

Clinton was running on the memory of her husband's presidency and assumed that no one could take her out. As a result she is watching the general election from the sidelines just like the other also-rans.

The PUMA people are pissed because it's a black man who's at the top of the ticket. The experience mantra is bullshit. Clinton's experience is not so much more that she's infinitely more qualified to run for than Obama is. I doubt even she believes that bit of primary nonsense.

The experience mantra is yet another excuse to hide the racism behind the PUMA's non-voting for Obama. Democrats do not vote their beliefs and vote McSame. This is not oversimplification; it's straight logic.

As for barely winning the primary, the only way Clinton could win the primary was for the super-delegates to completely disregard the voters on the ground. Are you trying to say that having Clinton as the nominee in what would appear to everyone as a back room deal is better than having Obama who actually earned the majority of the pledged delegates? No, the only reason it's mentioned is to try to find ways to diminish the accomplishments of Obama in the first place. But that's the kind of crap I expect from PUMA supporters anyway.

Regards

[Beacool]

154. I was not an Edwards supporter in 2004.

Frankly, Bill Clinton was the only candidate who I enthusiastically supported. The other ones, I liked some better than others. I was neutral in 2004, but thought that Kerry was a poor choice because after watching him campaign I knew that he wouldn't win against Bush.

I think that the PUMAs are more angry at the party than at Obama. I honestly don't think that the reason that they are saying that they won't support the nominee is due to his race. They appear to want to punish the party and the only way they have of doing so is by withholding their vote.

Foolish? Probably, but it's their choice.

I imagine that there would have been similar groups for Obama if Hillary had won the nomination. There were people here who said that they would never vote for her and some still say the same thing if she were to become the VP nominee. It cuts both ways.

[elkston]

183. No, there is resentment and some of it is due to Obama's race.

They are very upset they were "beat" by another minority. This intense hatred causes them to ignore all the positive qualities of Obama: his leadership ability, his obvious management skills, his record of bipartisanship in the State Legislature.

No, instead of bolstering the positive qualities of Obama, they just buy into the enemy talking points.

Some of it is just lashing out at the party. But a notable degree of it is racism, and it cannot be denied. They don't THINK it is because it is subconcious. They have never had their feelings of white entitlement, minor as they may be, challegned at this level and the nastiness is coming out.

I'm not talking about those who will vote for Obama, but with a lesser degree of enthusiasm. That is understood. It was a close race and its not realisitc to expect such a clean break. But we SHOULD expect that they will at least be Democrats and look at the bright side. No, instead we are seeing the true colors come out in these PUMAs who are increasingly defiant.

I beleive you support Obama, Beacool, but grudgingly. You are going to wait to see him action before you fully commit. HOWEVER, you are willing to cast your vote for him and give him the chance to prove himself. That is what counts.

[SurfingAtWork]

100. I was going to respond to you, but it looks like someone beat

Me to the punch, and laid out about the same case I would have made. Obama and Clinton are almost identical on policy. McCain is the polar opposite of both of them on just about every issue. To contend one has voted Democratic their entire life, and are a true blue dyed in the wool democrat... but aren't going to support Obama in this election and are going to support McCain instead, the only logical conclusion I can come to is that they are bigots. Either that or self hating masochists.

[totodeinhere]

67. You are right. They must be aliens. Any human Democrat would support our nominee.

[sniffa]

119. I can't believe you're still bogarting that crucifix

There are others who want to climb up on it y'know.

[madfloridian]

12. Yes, they are. Not all, but many.

[NYC_SKP]

11. "Take me off your whiner list."

:rofl:

I gotta remember that one!

[ErinBerin84]

16. heh. I told myself that I wasn't going to respond to the PUMA threads, but I can't resist.

"Who gives a croc what you do, its your business fool."




:rofl:

[AllentownJake]

19. I don't normally make them

However, DNC responses are priceless.

[JVS]

22. Go Carolyn! Tell God to smite them good!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

97. I know Carolyn. She rawwks!! nt

[SwampG8r]

31. its just a shame

such stupidity
prepare for the real crying to start when obama names his VP

[SidneyCarton]

34. I salute Steven Ybarra for his clear depiction of our collective nightmare:

Good for you, when the fascists come in the middle of the night to take you to a concentration camp, remember how you voted. Take me off your whiner list . . .then tell them to stop calling me telling me that they are going to vote for mccain. i am would rather vote for a rabid dog than any Fascist republican like mccain. read the declaration of independence."

[pansypoo53219]

43. i'm just gonna

assume they are racists. and f they ain't, well....too fucking bad. obama had a white SINGLE mom. i say obama has more insight into womanhood than a woman who went to law school.

[Marrah_G]

46. bah forget it

[VeraAgnes]

69. That is inappropriate.

:scared: Your attitude is also frightening.

[pecwae]

170. You do know that Michelle Obama

is a Harvard law grad? Do you include her in the ridiculous last sentence of your post?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

48. Does anyone have an accurate measure of how many there are?

I see an awful lot of rhetoric, but - because nearly everyone has an interest in either playing up or playing down the scale of the problem - I haven't seen any discussion of just how many people claim that they are Democrats, but won't vote for Obama because of the primary.

If there are only a few, we can ignore them, if not, we can't.

[AllentownJake]

49. They are amusing

However if they were actually a threat John McCain would be in NY because that is where I imagine their numbers would be strongest.

[newmajority]

68. The so called "PUMAs" themselves probably number in double digits

But the "movement" is heavily funded by the pharmaceutical industry, and manipulated by CIA thugs like Larry Johnson, so it's clear that the intent is to build the illusion of a machine far bigger than their actual numbers.

Well where's the danger in that, you ask.

Johnson and his CIA buddies would really like to stage an incident at the Denver convention that combines the "best" of the Chicago 1968 convention and the 1992 LA riots. The PUMAs weren't their first choice for a scapegoat, but they'll do. Either way, the Sheeple will be scared into voting for McLoon, just like they were for Nixon.

[VeraAgnes]

71. That is an excellent point.

I myself do not have such facts.....Yet, even a few need to be embraced and respected in hope that they return to the fold so to speak.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

75. If there are only a few, it's probably not worth it

Embracing one group usually means alienating another.

[newmajority]

63. There are many ways to skin a PUMA

And those were some damn fine examples quoted above :rofl:

[VeraAgnes]

70. This may be viewed as

an unfavorable comment. :scared:

I prefer PEACE! I will sacrifice a little dignity to secure Peace in the Democratic Party.

Unity today and tomorrow, praying for peace- forever!!!!!

[AllentownJake]

79. I bought former Hillary Supporters

Buttons with both their pictures on them. I support peace. I don't placate fools.

[mloutre]

102. Is that you, Ms. Chamberlain?

PUMA peace in our time?

Bah, humbug.

Hillary supporters are one thing. Subversive PUMA operatives are something else again.

Senator Clinton herself has already said, repeatedly, in just so many words, that she does not, shall not, and will not support the activities of any of her former partisans who will not actively advocate the election of Barack Obama for President in 2008.

I mean, come on now, just how the hell much clearer can it possibly get than that??

[jesus_of_suburbia]

74. I REALLY don't think PUMA members are Democrats period.

As a former Hillary supporter (who still loves her and will enthusiastically vote for Obama), I find it hard to believe that these people are Dems. I think they are Republicans trying to cause chaos.


I would say the same thing about people who refused to vote for Hillary if she had won.

[LowerManhattanite]

78. F*ck the PUMAs and their whiney-assed enablers/coddlers here on DU...

...who talk a totally different (and openly divisive) tale when they're around their grief-swilling, mangy, toothless mountain cat pals elsewhere on the internets.

Their object? To wreck the Democratic party, and enable a McCain victory out of spitefulness.

But ohhhhhhhh, how they love taking their lumps...

“A whoooooooole lotta http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Puma">lumps!” :)




‘Eeeee-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-nnnnh!”

[Marrah_G]

81. Really - links please. If you are going to call people out, then have some courage and do it.

Otherwise you are nothing but a froth-mouthed bully who thinks they are cool because they can start whispered rumours about others.

[LowerManhattanite]

87. To use your own carefully-written words upthread, oh-so-sensitive-one...

“ You know what I am talking about. nt.”

Oh—and the whiny, carping, oh-poor-me “bully” meme? It isn't taking hold.

Get a new talking point. :)

With that—done with you.

[Marrah_G]

88. Then put me on ignore, because I will continue to call you on your bullying

[Hugabear]

182. You know damned well that it's against DU rules to call people out

But I can't help but notice how quick you are to defend these PUMA assholes.

The same people who are basically telling Hillary "fuck you" when she urges them to support Obama. The same people who the minute that Hillary conceded immediately threw their support behind McCain.

Notice that nobody here on DU is bashing Hillary supporters. There's a huge difference between bashing true Hillary supporters, and bashing people who simply call themselves Hillary supporters, but are now openly backing the rethug. And if someone is so damned stupid that they're willing to vote McCain simply out of spite, then they deserve whatever scorn they receive.

[Indenturedebtor]

83. HAHAHA best one is from Ybarra

CA superdelegate Steven Ybarra: “Good for you, when the fascists come in the middle of the night to take you to a concentration camp, remember how you voted. Take me off your whiner list . . .then tell them to stop calling me telling me that they are going to vote for mccain. i am would rather vote for a rabid dog than any Fascist republican like mccain. read the declaration of independence."

Perfect ;) Ah like a fine wine, goes down smooth.

[Cha]

89. Lol...

DNCer Ben Johnson: "When God was giving out brains…you thought he said trains…and you missed yours. Who gives a croc what you do, its your business fool."

[blogslut]

90. Some people are addicted to drama and the prosepect of mass attention

Others are closet racists and/or repubs.

The rest are just fools.

[Lilith Velkor]

106. DU sure loves feeding their drama and giving them attention

I just like popcorn. Mmmmm. :popcorn:

[blogslut]

121. You're not fooling anyone

http://capitalhillforum.com/search/?c=2&mid=141786

[sniffa]

128. Ooh, touche'

[Faygo Kid]

141. "By registering at Capital Hill you are acknowledging that you are . . . not an Obama supporter."

Oops.

A major petard hoisting here.

[Marrah_G]

144. It would depend on when the person joined

CH was formed during the primaries as a safe place for Hillary supporters to gather without the constant fight. Until recently I was a member, but I will vote for Obama. I still respect Sen Clinton and wish the primary ended differently, but I am a realist and I will support the nominee.

[Faygo Kid]

145. Looks like a post there on July 23. Double oops.

I have no quarrel with you, and you know that. We just disagree.

Someone who continues to post there given the ground rules at CHF? Ah, no.

[Marrah_G]

150. I know we have no quarrel

But we do view this from different vantage points and therefore have formed different opinions. But as long as we remain civil and respectful to each other,as we have, then we win in the long run :)

[Lilith Velkor]

172. I was invited to bitch about Obama on somebody else's bandwidth

The fact that others choose to share links to it here, in order to keep the primary fight going, says more about them than it does about me.

Petard hoisting, indeed. :rofl:

[Lilith Velkor]

180. Oh, so you like to feed drama and pay attention to websites you don't like?

How's that working out for you?

:popcorn: Mmm, delicious.

[iconicgnom]

181. So, do you need to have your feelings validated, puma?

need a :grouphug: ?

[Lilith Velkor]

188. Not really

But I could use a :beer:

[iconicgnom]

190. I didn't think so.

:toast:

to your honesty

[BlooInBloo]

93. BlooInBloo's response to PUMA....

(Most of you can pretty much guess.)

[polichick]

105. How many of these unhappy creatures are there - any estimates??

[Beacool]

109. Read this article that appeared in the New York Daily News

Hillary Clinton's supporters look to make her struggle count

By Alison Baker and Nancy Kirk

Sunday, July 27th 2008

During the 1991 Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings, you could hear women repeat the phrase, "They just don't get it." They meant the humiliation visited on Anita Hill, the strange theories about why she was speaking up. The sexism directed at Hill provoked many professional women to confess for the first time the pervasive discrimination they themselves had experienced.

Now, almost 20 years later, many of these same women, along with a new generation, are deeply disappointed - still - by the way Hillary Clinton was treated in the Democratic primaries.

Why? It began with references to her "shrill" voice and "cackle." Then the press and her rivals seized on that moment in New Hampshire, when Hillary's voice broke and her face mirrored her exhaustion. They called it "fake crying," said it showed she (whom moments ago they had called too tough) wasn't tough enough. That New Hampshire night, when Hillary surprised the pollsters and the pundits, she also surprised herself and her campaign. They had not noticed the deep well of support out there among women who felt they had been ignored long enough.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2008/07/27/2008-07-27_hillary_clintons_supporters_look_to_make.html

[Danger Mouse]

111. And your position is what?

[mloutre]

129. Um, hello? Did it ever occur to you that some of those points might be well-deserved?

I mean, I haven't heard anybody saying that Kathleen Sebelius sounds shrill, or that Claire McCaskill cackles when she laughs, or that Barbara Boxer pretends to cry when she thinks it will score her points in the polls... or, for that matter, that Condoleeza Rice is an uppity black person for daring to rise to a position of power in spite of all those angry old white men in the good ol' boys' club, let alone her being an uppity woman in the first place.

This is not about women in politics. It's about Senator Clinton in politics.

This is not a once-in-a-lifetime women's-breakthough glass-ceiling problem, okay? Nobody said that a woman can't be president in the 21st century... the fact that she came as close as she did proved that, nu? But the bottom line is that Hillary Clinton was not the woman who could be president this time. It's not a generalized gender thing, it's a quite specific candidate thing. She just plain didn't make the cut this time.

Sheesh.

I know, I know, this is a heretically hard thing for so many people to accept... but Hillary Clinton did not lose the nomination because she was a woman. She lost the nomination because she was *Hillary Clinton*.

Senator Clinton's strengths are her own, but so are her flaws. Her not winning the Democratic party's nomination for president is not on women in general, it's on her in particular. She came close, but she lost it on her own merits, and/or the lack of same.

That's the reality of it.

So just friggin deal with it, yo.

[Beacool]

136. OK, so.........

Let me get this straight. According to you, it's OK to call a female presidential candidate's voice "shrill" and her laughter a "cackle"? It must be also OK to discuss her hair, clothes, butt and cleavage?

I don't care if that woman is Hillary or anybody else, it is NOT OK now or ever to refer to any female politician in sexist terms. Just because some people do not like Hillary, it still does not justify the blatant sexism of the media.

No one is saying that Hillary didn't close the deal due to sexism, they are saying that sexism did play an important part in this election and many women will not forget it.

[mloutre]

137. What if some people *do* think her voice sounded shrill and her laugh sounded like a cackle?

Maybe those are possibly-valid points they believe about one person in particular, not just mass attacks against an entire gender base.

I don't know that I cackle much, but I do know that my voice has been known to sound shrill to people when I get wound up about something. Does that mean I'm being discriminated against if someone points that out?

I didn't say anything about clothes, butt, or cleavage. Nor did the post I was replying to.

I have been known to dis John Kerry for wearing really ugly ties. Does that mean I'm a sexist anti-man pig for attacking his manner of dress in public? I think he can get long-winded when he thinks too much when he's speaking, and his face is way too wooden when he really should be smiling at the cameras. Does that mean I'm (whatever the other-gender equivalent of misogynistic is) about John Kerry when I criticize his on-camera style?

My point is that way too many people -- yourself included, going by your body of writing here on DU -- keep trying to turn this into an anti-woman thing that Hillary fell unjustly-pilloried victim to, rather than the fact that, maybe, just maybe, well... we may be a thin but real majority of the overall populace in your book this year, but... *a lot of us just really aren't that into her*.

It doesn't mean we're against women in general. Senator Clinton just didn't win us over in particular. Neither did Bill Richardson, John Edwards, Joe Biden, etc. etc. etc. for that matter. So does that mean we're as anti-white-male as we are anti-woman, huh?

Not hardly. Your gender-specific perspective is conspicuously biased here.

[Beacool]

142. Only hens and witches cackle.

No, it is not appropriate for the media to say that a woman cackles.

I have no problem with anyone saying that they did not support Hillary because they disagreed with her policies. The media, though, spent most of its time criticizing her on personal terms, most of them didn't give a freak about her stance on the issues. The only objective reporting I saw was done by PBS, C-Span and the foreign media.

[Beacool]

110. And this one from the San Francisco Chronicle

Democratic Party maybe presumes too much - about women

Robin Lakoff

Tuesday, July 29, 2008

It may seem as though the Democratic Party can give a sigh of relief: Women have returned to the fold, and will support Barack Obama for president - and presumably his party - after all. But not so fast.

While I and many other women in my demographic (older, professional, liberal) are likely to vote for Obama in November, our feelings about his party (and ours) are not so clear. We remember the perpetual misogyny and sexism of the media during the primary campaign - misogyny aimed less at Hillary Rodham Clinton herself than at "uppity women" (like ourselves) in general. And many of us feel that the Democratic Party is even more to blame than the media.

----------------

We are disgusted with the party we have long trusted to represent our interests. We are disgusted with ourselves for being snookered - again. We assess the party leaders' rejection of Clinton as a cynical strategy. If Clinton had ended up as the candidate, the Democrats stood to lose the votes of many African Americans, who then might not vote at all. But if they made Obama the candidate? Well, then (the reasoning seems to have gone), the women always vote, and they will come around. Women always come around, no matter how badly they're mistreated.

I am reminded of a particularly chilling passage in Vladimir Nabokov's novel "Lolita." Humbert Humbert, after raping the 12-year-old, is pondering why she has come back to his bed. "You see," Humbert tells the reader, "she had absolutely nowhere else to go."

That's just how I feel. And they want my enthusiastic support? The Democratic Party can fend for itself.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/29/EDCC120QOH.DTL

[mloutre]

125. Boink. That. Noise.

What an incredibly self-centric, short-sighted, gender-oriented essay that is.

Want to keep America safe for equal-righted women? Then insist that the McCain Movement can fend for itself instead!

Jeebus, what a friggin crock o' (blatantly biased, unbelievably monomaniacal) crap...

[sniffa]

151. Was it a really long essay?

It's just one word on my end.

[Faygo Kid]

148. Rush quoted this at length today, too. He liked it, as well. But not her.

By the way, his "respect" for Ms. Lakoff, as shown in his comment every time he mentions her name, ought to at least give pause. Maybe it's OK. Not my style. Maybe some of her anger (and yours?) would be better directed elsewhere than at Obama:

Mrs. Lakoff (Rhymes With) Feels Raped by the Democrat Party

July 29, 2008

RUSH: You think there's still not anger at the Democrat Party over what happened to Hillary Clinton? I have to read excerpts of a column chum in the San Francisco Chronicle today written by Robin Lakoff (rhymes with). I do not know if this woman is a relative of George Lakoff (rhymes with) who was hired by the Democrats to help 'em come up with language to camouflage their liberalism and relate to average people. They eventually threw Lakoff (rhymes with) overboard, and they went out and they found somebody else. Robin Lakoff (rhymes with) is professor of linguistics at UC Berkeley. She is the author of The Language War, Talking Power, and Language and Woman's Place -- three different books. . .

. . . Now I suspect Ms. Lakoff (rhymes with) actually knows the answer to her questions. What do you think the answer to the question is? Why did the superdelegates, every time Hillary won a primary, she's right. Operation Chaos was in full tilt, every time she won a primary, more supers announced for Obama, as he was losing primaries. Why? (interruption) Hm-hm. That's part of it, that's part of it, that's part of it, but that's only half of the answer. It is true that many of the superdelegates, true that many in the Democrat Party are tired of the Clintons, particularly Mrs. Clinton, and they didn't like her inevitability and wanted her out of there, just get her gone. No question. But there's a second reason, Mr. Snerdley, a second reason. That second reason is race. There was no way the superdelegates of the Democrat Party, when he had even a lead that was only visible through a microscope, were going to not give him the nomination. They would not risk the outcry that would befall them if they were to deny the nomination to Obama, whether he could win or not. And I suspect that Robin Lakoff (rhymes with) is fully aware of both of these, and it's the first one, the fact that they hate the Clintons in that party that really has her teed off here. But this gets even better. . . "

He's the real enemy here. He and his ilk. http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_072908/content/01125113.guest.html

[Beacool]

158. Ahhh, Rush........

I didn't know that he spoke about this article on his show.

:eyes:

[Faygo Kid]

159. Sorry to bring it up. I meant no offense by quoting from it.

I just thought it extraordinarily offensive, and a reminder of the stakes.

Again, no offense intended. Just wanted you to be aware of it. He is such a misogynist. For Rush Limpballs to make fun of someone's name - well, that's beyond the pale.

:hurts:

[Beacool]

160. That's OK, no offense!!!

Rush is no friend of any Dem, that's for sure. Yes, he's a misogynist, but I don't expect any better from people like him. What was a disappointment was to find out during the primary how many in the left were just as sexist, and some times even worse, than those on the right. Suffice it to read the LW blogs to see the level of misogyny expressed by some people.

:hi:

[scheming daemons]

163. Wait.... I thought it was people like ME that haven't "gotten over" the primaries?????

And I've been told over and over tonight that PUMAs don't exist...


RIGHT????

[Danger Mouse]

112. What a bunch of fools and tools.

[elana i am]

130. yeah well...

only a fuckpig would vote for a fuckpig.

[George_Bonanza]

135. What PUMAs are

Assuming they're not Republican sabateurs, they are:

1) Low-information Democrats who vote due to regional or professional traditions; in other words, they don't pay attention to the issues

2) Very centrist, possibly center-right swing voters who jumped aboard the Democratic ship in hopes of electing the first white woman (but not the first black man)

3) Racists with enough of a mind to not vote for McCain, but grieving at the thought of having to call a black man, "Mr. President"; thus, Hillary is their only real opportunity to both not get McCain and not elect a black American

[sourmilk]

139. “God will guide the hand of Judgement that will strike you down?"

Harsh. At lest she wrote "Thank you," though...nice touch.

:rofl:

[Lone Southern Dem]

155. kick

[DangerousRhythm]

156. Haha, great responses!

This warms my heart... thanks for posting it! :D :thumbsup:

:dem:

[RNdaSilva]

171. I liked this quote:

DNCer Ben Johnson: "When God was giving out brains…you thought he said trains…and you missed yours. Who gives a croc what you do, its your business fool."

But, doesn't that speak for about 30% of the electorate...in general?

These people in particular:

[Catchawave]

186. Link not working.....

Takes me here>http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/



July 30, 2008
Categories: Barack Obama

McCain camp on Obama's 'hysteria'

Staying very personal, the McCain campaign responds to Obama's suggestion that Republicans will attack his unusual name and his race:

"This is a typically superfluous response from Barack Obama. Like most celebrities, he reacts to fair criticism with a mix of fussiness and hysteria," says McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds, before trying to link the attack back to offshore drilling.


....there is a way to link directly to blog diaries, not to the news lists, please use permalinks from Ben Smith's diaries.

Please update your link. Thanks :hi: