Dean's tax claim called a "huge stretch"

[BeyondGeography]

A primary defense of Howard Dean's plan to repeal ALL of the Bush tax cut, including those portions that apply to the middle class, is that it will put him in a position to fully fund state health and education programs. This would enable the Dean Administration to help alleviate the effects of other types of tax increases, such as property taxes, that have soared during the past few years.

At least that's the claim. Here's an excerpt from today's Arizona Republic article which shows Dean to be on shaky rhetorical ground when linking No Child Left Behind to property tax hikes.

<Dean said the 2-year-old law "in general has been a disaster for American public education." He said some of its measures were worthy, but the law "asks for much more than it's willing to pay for."

<"Property taxes all over Arizona have gone up, as they have elsewhere in the country, because these standards are so foolish," he said.

<In Phoenix, Kevin McCarthy, president of the nonpartisan Arizona Tax Research Association, said that although expenditures for public education in the state have grown dramaticially, it would be a "huge stretch" to attribute an extra property-tax burden to the federal act.

<Arizona is less dependent than many other states on property taxes for support of schools, McCarthy said.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0106dean-interview06.html

[PVnRT]

1. No Child Left Behind wasn't supposed to be funded

The point of the program was to so screw up public schools in this country as to get people to support vouchers and the privitization of education. It was never meant to work - just look at some of the provisions in the bill.

[helleborient]

3. Yep, and so many deluded Democrats voted for the mess...

I guess they were "misled" again by the Bush administration.

[Racenut20]

2. "stretch of the imagination" as my mother would say

[Hep]

4. Shaky rhetorical ground?

Interesting. I guess sometimes it takes bold moves and risks to pull this country out of the quagmire we've been put in by the Bush Administration and the concession mongers in congress.

Anyway, it's been said many times, we don't need any part of Bush's tax cuts to have strong tax policy that benefits everyone. Someone actually make an argument against that.

[BeyondGeography]

6. I don't disagree, but here's the problem

If you're in a state that doesn't depend on property taxes to fund education, you shouldn't talk about how a fully-funded No Child Left Behind program will result in property tax relief.

[dsc]

7. The money doesn't grow on trees

what ever taxes Arizona uses to fund schools went up and that is the poing.

[SahaleArm]

8. Unless the plan is for a magical economic recovery...

then state taxes will remain as they are today. More revenue comes from employment and business growth than the federal government.

[Hep]

12. Which is

why Dean is all about creating jobs and supporting small business. The Fund to Restore America.

[SahaleArm]

13. Right but just repealing the tax cuts won't address these problems...

And that's been his whole reasoning behind the repeal; that it will suddenly change state-level taxes.

[Hep]

14. The Fund to Restore America

You're talking about this and it seems like you haven't botheres to read Dean's words on any of it. It makes it hard to discuss.


The Fund to Restore America

Governor Dean will begin his work to improve the economy by proposing a two- year, $100 billion Fund to Restore America, designed to add more than one million new jobs to the economy. The Fund will benefit the economy in both the short and long term.

The Fund will be distributed to states and localities to assist communities that have been worst hit by the economic downturn. Some of the money will be used to improve homeland security by hiring and training first responders, public health personnel and security providers for critical installations and ports, and for purchasing new and improved equipment. Other funds will be awarded to states and cities to build new or to renovate and repair their failing infrastructure, including schools, roads, rail, water, wastewater, electrical and telecommunications systems.

The Fund will place a special emphasis on helping disadvantaged and minority communities, which have been hard hit by the downturn and have recovered the least. At the beginning of the Bush administration, the unemployment rate among African- Americans was 8.2 per cent. In September of this year, the rate had climbed to 11.2 per cent. One out of three young African-Americans in the work force is unemployed. Four hundred thousand more African-Americans of all ages are without jobs than the day President Bush took office. The Latino community is also carrying more than its share of the economic failures of this administration, with an unemployment rate of 7.5 per cent — nearly 30 per cent higher than January 20, 2001.

More Help for States and Communities

The downturn in the economy plus the jobless recovery has placed an enormous burden on the budgets and resources of states and cities. As a result, services have been curtailed, workers have been laid off and state and local taxes have soared. The plight of the states creates a continuing, major drag on the national economy. Economists generally agree that rapid action to relieve the fiscal burdens on the states would be one of the most effective ways to stimulate the economy and create new jobs. Governor Dean’s economic plan will offer both immediate help and a long-term commitment to helping the states in two specific areas: education and homeland security.



There's lots here:

http://beta.deanforamerica.com/site/cg/index.html?type=page&pagename=policy_policy_economy_reclaimingtheamericandream

[SahaleArm]

15. I'm not disagreeing with his plan just how he's selling

the tax repeal to middle-lower class America.

[BeyondGeography]

9. So find what went up and point to that

Don't trot out property taxes in Arizona. It's not a good moment when what your candidate says is called a huge stretch in the leading newpaper of a key primary state.

[Hep]

11. People in Arizona shouldn't know how it works in the rest of the country?

People in Arizona want North Carolina's schools to be good, too.

[mouse7]

5. More neo-con claptrap

No Child Left Behind costs schools systems a fortune in require a whole host of programs it provides no funding for.

Then, to make things worse, Dumbya has not released a lot of the budgeted funding for the bill.

There is no question local schools systems pay a fortune for Leave No Child Behind.

[SeattleRob]

10. shaky ground?

As someone who works with various state agencies and non profits, I can report that the Bush tax cuts are a sham. Most of the states in the union are running huge budget deficits. There are different reasons -unemployment (less tax money coming in) - and cuts in Federal money coming to the states. Because of this - public agnecies have cut budgets across the board - Public Schools, Health Departments, Fire and Police, Transportation, etc. Dr. Dean is absolutely correct on this point. The Bush tax cuts have helped a tiny minority of already well off people. The rest of us are footing the bill in a variety of ways.

[BeyondGeography]

16. Clark's tax cut puts money in working family pockets

and is fully funded by increasing taxes on those earning $1 million or more and closing corporate loopholes. This still enables him to send $100 billion to the states, just as much as Dean.

In the case of the article cited above, which you ignore, Dean's implication that Arizonans will have more money in their hands once No Child Left Behind is fully funded because their property taxes will go down (an incredibly risky claim; since when do Presidents make promises about property taxes?) is flatly contradicted by a non-partisan Arizona tax expert.

Dean is saying he'll put money in our pockets by taking pressure off the states. Clark is putting money in peoples' hands with a tax cut. I leave it to you to tell me how Dean's approach works better against George Bush and for working families than Clark's.

[mzmolly]

17. Lets examine the 'non-partisian' Arizona Tax Research Foundation

a bit more shall we?

http://www.arizonatax.org/legislative_advocacy.htm

"Authoring and successfully lobbying the Truth–in-Taxation laws that now control state and local government primary property tax levies.

Successfully lobbying numerous reductions in property taxes including the complete elimination of the state property tax rate. ATRA’s research documenting Arizona’s high business property taxes also resulted in many improvements in business property taxes including: accelerated depreciation for business personal property; exemption from tax for the first $50,000 in personal property value; and exempting personal property from tax during the construction work in progress phase.

Championing the business community’s successful effort to reduce the corporate income tax rate from 9% to 6.9%.

Led the successful effort to reform Arizona’s municipal sales tax system through the elimination of the city council’s independent authority to change their sales tax codes and the elimination of multiple audits of taxpayers by both the state and cities.

Lobbied numerous school district property tax reforms that annually save Arizona property taxpayers tens of millions of dollars."

They sound about as Non-Partisian as Bush. I believe they supported the Bush tax plan did they not?

Additionally the majority of the article was about Bill Bradleys endorsement of Dean. You seem to have missed the larger point. ;)

[BeyondGeography]

18. Smear the messenger

Avoid a discussion of the facts. More Dean hocus-pocus.

[rucky]

20. Smells Like Grover Norquist

...

[rucky]

19. So Why Did Property Taxes Go Up, Then?