Downs Syndrome occurrence increase along with the age of the mother...correct?

[madmunchie]

So, this possible VP Candidate who opposes sex education obviously is the poster child for what happens when one is ignorant.

A teenage daughter faced with an unplanned pregnancy and a newborn with Downs Sydrome.... This is at least partially the result of ignorance and pretending that we shouldn't educate ourselves and we only have one choice when it comes to pregnancy.

Any woman supporting this candidate is an idiot.

[goldcanyonaz]

1. New data has shown that the age of the father, and his sperm contributes to this.

[endthewar]

5. It would make sense that the age of both parents contribute to this

[madmunchie]

8. Possibly, but the maternal age drastically affects the incidence of Downs Syndrome

[Alexander]

26. Since Todd is younger than Sarah, is it possible the father is someone else?

[goldcanyonaz]

39. He was over 40 at the time. He was born in 64

[Raven]

2. No, no, no...you see, Sarah thinks this child is a gift from God as

;ong as someone else takes care of him.

[crim son]

3. Well framed.

I'm going to make use of your perspective, if you don't mind.

[madmunchie]

9. Please, be my guest ...and Thank You!

[endthewar]

4. Yes, there is a sharp increase once the mother reaches about 40-45 years old

From wikipedia.org:

[iiibbb]

6. The odds are still only about 2% at age 43.

This is the kind of thing that is entirely within her right to make a private decision.

[Oregone]

20. Let's not fool ourselves...1/40 is like Downs Syndrome Russian Roullete

No one said anything about her "right" to decide to do this. Its more about her judgment (or rather, perhaps her education and knowledge of this massive increase in the chances of this happening).

I personally think it is a bad choice (yes, call the PC police on me). Well, either it is a bad choice, or an accident, or she is just ignorant of the consequences, or, she just doesn't give a damn any way about it.

Anyway you slice it, Im not sure why this Baby-prop is a positive thing (or even a neutral thing) for her character.

Look, its her Baby-prop, not mine. As much as a "right" she has to do it, I have a good right to say something about it and make a judgment.

Maybe it should rank up there with shipping your child off to maybe die on September 11th for politics.

[iiibbb]

27. You can't criticize a woman's decision to have a baby and come up

...looking anything like a snide, insulting, crappy example of a person.

You're better off not doing it.

[renate]

29. goodness, I'm about to defend Sarah Palin....

For one thing, she's pro-life... if this were an accidental pregnancy, she didn't just talk the talk, she walked the walk and had the baby despite his being unplanned. I will happily criticize her for everything else she's ever done in her life, but not this.

For another, it's not as though Down syndrome = miserable life, for either the child or for his parents or siblings. Far from it. Few of us would wish for it, but that doesn't mean that Down syndrome is a horrible blight. Not only is he likely to have a full and happy life (albeit different from what it might have been without DS), he is likely to bring love and joy to his friends and family.

I won't deny that you have a right to judge her decision, obviously. I just happen to disagree with you that bringing a child with Down syndrome to term and welcoming him into her family was a bad decision.

[Bubbha Jo]

32. I myself would have a difficult time continuing such a pregnancy

at her age because of the vulnerability of the child after I was dead, especially if I already had 4. It's a harsh world and there's no guarantee someone will effectively take care of my special needs individual after I was gone.

I wouldn't criticize her own choice to have the child though. What I do criticize is her finding something more important to do during that child's first year on earth.

[TheCowsCameHome]

7. When will she have #6?

[Clio the Leo]

10. The hypocracy of the religious right makes me want to wretch...

I'm a bleeding heart liberal, but I'm also a conservative Christian. The way these folks want to march under their banner of pro-life yet FAIL to teach their sons and daughters the importance of keeping their feet grounded ..... pun intended ...... is foul.

Absolutely foul.

"Oh but at least she did the right thing and kept the baby...." that's a load of hoo ha .... the right thing was to act more responsibly to begin with.

~ end of rant ~

[cali]

11. what a moronic attack. and it's down syndrome. no possessive.

who gives a shit about her having a down syndrome child? this is sooo fucking counterproductive that I suspect anyone posting this garbage of one of two things.

[madmunchie]

13. OK, now that you just ranted with wonderful expletives, could you

explain yourself with some LOGIC....and if you misspell something, I won't mind as long as you can post w/o having to use expletives and accusations.

Counterproductive????? Lack of education and or practicality can definitely contribute to poor choices leading to unplanned pregnancies, birth defects.....and who will suffer for Ms Palin's choices????? Her two children.

[cali]

21. This isn't about her education or practicality

it's about the choices women make. I've known quite a few women who decided to bear children in their late thirtes and early forties. They weren't uneducated. Far from it. People make personal choices. I'm not a right wing nut so I don't judge them for those choices unless I know a fuck of a lot more about the fucking situation than you fucking do.

And you fucking wouldn't know logic if it walked up and slapped you.
And I like to fucking swear.

[SmileyRose]

44. Ok, so I just met you and

I've already decided I like you. :)

[kath]

45. Quit obsessing about the damned possessive - it's still used in the names of LOTS of other diseases

with eponymous names, and in the UK Trisomy 21 is still called Down's syndrome.

This from a previous thread:
That's generally true in the US (no possessive), but not in the UK.
"In 1975, the United States National Institutes of Health convened a conference to standardize the nomenclature of malformations. They recommended eliminating the possessive form: "The possessive use of an eponym should be discontinued, since the author neither had nor owned the disorder."<59> Although both the possessive and non-possessive forms are used in the general population, Down syndrome is the accepted term among professionals in the USA, Canada and other countries; Down's syndrome is still used in the United Kingdom and other areas.<60 " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome


"Many medical conditions and diseases have been named after a person; this type of name is called an eponym. There has been a long-standing debate in the scientific community over whether or not to add the possessive form to the names of eponyms. For quite a long time, there was no established rule as to which to use, but general usage decided which form is acceptable. So you saw both possessive and non-possessive names in use.
In 1974, a conference at the US National Institute of Health attempted to make a standard set of rules regarding the naming of diseases and conditions. This report, printed in the journal Lancet, stated: "The possessive form of an eponym should be discontinued, since the author neither had nor owned the disorder."(7) Since that time, the name has traditionally been called "Down syndrome" in North America (note that "syndrome" isn't capitalized). However, the change has taken longer to occur in Great Britain and other parts of Europe" http://www.ds-health.com/name.htm



It's not clear to me why people make such a BIG DEAL about the name here. We still use the names Hodgkin's disease, Parkinson's disease, Crohn's disease, Huntington's disease, Paget's disease, Kaposi's sarcoma, Asperger's syndrome and on and on.

Yes, that 1974 or 1975 conference said to drop the "'s" in eponymous disease names. But more than 30 years later, "Medical journals, dictionaries and style guides remain divided on this issue". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_eponymous_diseases


So chill, y'all. I'm not sure we need one or more posts in *every single thread* about someone with Trisomy 21 quibbling about the darned "'s".

Yeesh.

Get. A. Grip.

[iiibbb]

12. These posts are as bad as telling gays who they can sleep with...

I mean... don't they have a higher incidence of AIDS?... sheesh

[madmunchie]

15. Facts are facts & if you don't like them, be like Sarah & pretend that they don't matter..Sheesh!!

[iiibbb]

17. It's none of our business the family decisions people make.

period.

[cali]

22. Couldn't answer that could you?

it's a right wing thing to pry and obsess about other people's sex/personal lives. Why do you want to go there?

[TooRaLoo]

42. I thought straight females had the highest incidences of AIDS? nt

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

14. My GF's white trash cousin had a child with downs syndrome at 17

and she was knocked up by a junkie in his mid-20's

[Cleita]

18. The junkie might be a clue.

I do believe drugs can affect sperm depending on what he used.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

24. i have no idea

I have not had an oppertunity to meet the fine young gentleman as he is presently incarcerated in the great state of Nevada.

[jwirr]

25. I know for a fact that pollution of farm chemicals can effect the fetus

so I would not be surprised that drugs could to. As to choice: Sarah had as much a choice as we do - hers was just to have the child. I would also defend her when she calls her child a gift of God. My beautiful severely disabled daughter age 50 has been the blessing of my life and that of my extended family. She was not a matter of choice since she was born before Roe vs Wade but she was welcome regardless of her condition.

[Cleita]

16. It's not written in stone, but middle aged parents seem to have a higher

incidents of Downs syndrome or other special needs babies. What I do know is that in the last twenty years most women that I know who have raised a family and are looking forward to grandchildren have surgically taken care of having any future pregnancies before they happen and it seems to me to be the practical way to go. Now I know some women who marry late or who have married men who want to have children with them do have healthy children in early middle age. However, they have done this with the help of a medical staff that knows how to help improve fertility and having healthy children.

[madmunchie]

19. Exactly, there are exceptions, but for the most part, middle aged parents do have a higher incidence

of special needs babies.

[JerseygirlCT]

23. That's correct. The odds go up pretty strongly in

an older mother. Thus the amnios after age 35 (unless that age has changed in 10 years or so!)

[Arkansas Granny]

28. Even comprehensive sex education and availability of contraceptives do not

prevent all teen pregnancies. I can tell you about my daughter who had her first child at the age of 16 as an example of that. Also, many women decide to have a child knowing they are in a higher risk category due to age or other factors. Whether they decide to abort or carry the baby to term if they are aware of a birth defect is certainly a personal decision.

Being pro-choice, as I am, I am not going to involve myself in the reproductive decisions made by Bristol and Sarah Palin. The only problem I have with those who call themselves "pro-life" is when they try to force their beliefs on others.

[Medusa]

30. Birth control is bad according to the fundies

you're impairing "god's will" or some crap like that. :eyes:

[Ilsa]

31. Advanced Maternal Age and Advanced Paternal Age have been

shown to contribute to a variety of genetic and congenital birth defects. The eggs aren't as fresh, the uterus may not grow a placenta as well and supply nutrition as well, and spermatogenesis may not be as high quality as when parents are younger.

But advanced age isn't the only reason for birth defects. Ask the March of Dimes.

[kskiska]

33. Interesting WP article on Downs Syndrome

Down Syndrome Families Brought Into Sharp Focus
Sunday, September 14, 2008; A01

They spend more time in doctors' offices than most parents. They endure stares from strangers but feel as if they and their children are invisible. They often find themselves fighting for their kids, not just raising them. Earlier, and perhaps more dramatically, they wrestle with the complex emotions that come from knowing that a child might never fulfill the lofty dreams that a parent often envisions before the child's birth.

But the parents of children who have Down syndrome say that raising a child with a disability can also unlock profound and uplifting truths about themselves, their children and the value of life in ways that others could never see.

Suddenly, people are looking.

(snip)

"People keep asking me, 'So what do you think?' I keep saying, 'What is it exactly you want my opinion about?' '' Pedlikin said. "People are paying much more attention to us. . . . Before, kids would stare, but not adults. Everybody's curious: 'What's it like to have a kid with Down syndrome?' "

For Pedlikin and her husband, Philip, raising a boy with Down syndrome can be trying. They love their son deeply, act as forceful advocates for him and say his birth has changed their worldview in a positive way, but they acknowledge that their lives are much harder, more emotionally wrenching and often lonely.

more…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/13/AR2008091301034.html

[mentalsolstice]

34. And Vietnam vets had a higher incidence of producing children w/birth defects.

Don't get me wrong, I despise Palin for many reasons. However, your OP makes me want to puke, as it implies that people with disabilities are inferior, and couples who have any chance of producing a disabled child should avoid doing so at all cost (birth control, abortion, abstinence, etc.). Wow, let's talk about a woman's right to privacy, choice, and all.

I was born with a birth defect. Perhaps, when the ob/gyn determined this possibility, maybe he should've asked my mom, after 30 hours of labor, if she wanted him to stick a spike in my brain, and suck my brains out, which would've made my feet-first breech birth ever so much easier for everyone. And then I wouldn't be walking around in your fucked up world.

edit to correct subject line

[ahem]

35. Who says she was ignorant to the increased risk of DS?

I understand how Bristol’s pregnancy can be looked at as an example of Palin’s failure at abstinence-only education in her own home, especially given the her promotion of abstinence-only programs in schools.

I don’t understand how the pregnancy or the birth of her youngest son proves anything.

Plenty of men and women choose to have children later in life – it’s becoming the norm for many who wish to establish their careers before adding motherhood and fatherhood to the mix. My husband and I chose not to have children, but many of our peers in their late 30s and early 40s are just starting their families.

The increased risk of DS (which isn't as drastic as many assume) has been well established, so most who enter pregnancy after the age of 35 are aware of that. If testing indicates the possibility of DS, they may or may not choose to abort. That’s their choice. Neither choice is better than any other.

I'm trying to understand your post... Are you insinuating that there is something wrong with bringing children with DS into the world? That stinks of eugenics. If that’s the case, you’re the one who’s ignorant. I can assure you they are valuable members of society, just like the rest of us.

This DS-ignorance angle just seems ridiculous. Palin may want to rob me of my choice, but I still want her and every other woman to have one.

And just to be clear on one point I assume we agree on: I don’t support Palin using her any of her children as props to promote her doomed VP run.

[CatsDogsBabies]

36. So many of these posts are disturbing

and I am really disappointed to see them here. I married relatively late, after 35, and tried for many years to get pregnant, but I never had a single pregnancy. Once I was in my 40s and after I thought I couldn't get pregnant, I became pregnant. I had a COMPLETELY problem free pregnancy and have a healthy child who is exceptionally bright and amazingly healthy. I have a Ph.D. myself as does my husband, so I didn't get pregnant because I was "ignorant." I also chose to forego any prenatal testing that would have involved risk.

Yes, it is true that older women have a higher incidence of children with down syndrome, but most children with down syndrome are born to women in their 20s.

Also, there is a correlation between spontaneous pregnancy after 40 and longevity in the mother - it is an indication of how slowly or rapidly a person is aging. Not all women over 40 need medical intervention to conceive and carry a healthy child.

Whatever happened to being pro-choice and privacy for women in reproductive matters?

I usually like coming to this site for information, but some of these posts are truly revolting.

[mentalsolstice]

37. And so degrading to those who live with birth defects and other disabilities

So many think the only goal is to prevent birth defects and other disabilities, without appreciating the richness of a so-called life of a disabled person when accessibility and accommodations are provided. I was born with mild to moderate CP. As I've matured, I don't feel a bit sorry for myself and my place in this world. I've worked double time for career achievements, and I have a great marriage. I am now on SSDI (got it without a hearing), as the CP has taken its toll. However, I now really appreciate the time I have to really study humsn behavior, culture, and being more enlightened about current events. Every day I wake up brings me joy. If the news is bad, I have a purpose in informing my friends who are too busy to follow the news cycle and getting the message out there.

I feel sorry for my parents that they had/have baggage that made my disability the big pink elephant in middle of the room (my dad still thinks my husband was "charitable" for marrying me). However, I see so many non-disabled persons around me, and there is no way I would want to trade places with them (our current POTUS is one such person).

If we could have determined, before birth, that Helen Keller, Einstein, FDR, Stephen Hawking, Chris Burke, and many others, were going to be disabled, and pressured their parents to not give birth...it's mind-boggling the loss our society would have suffered.

I'm all in favor of choice, and if a woman feels she cannot take on the responsibilities of having a disabled child, I respect that. However, many posts in this thread are absolutely disgusting...I feel like I'm in freeperville, and in need of a 30 min. scalding shower.

[SoCalDem]

38. percentage yes..numbers not necessarily

fertility declines rapidly..younger women have more babies, so they also have more with Down syndrome.. I knoe several whose first child had down syndrome.:(

[Codeine]

40. What disgusting tripe.

Seriously, I can't stand Moose-olini any more than you, but her reproductive freedom is sacrosanct, even if she doesn't acknowledge that fact. DU - of all places - should not engage in second-guessing whether or not a woman in her 40s should bear a child. :mad:

[Princess Turandot]

41. I believe that she knew that she was having a baby..

with Down Syndrome before he was born. She decided to have the baby. Having more than 'one choice' means she gets to choose the option that you may not have. While I don't think that this makes her 'heroic', any more than I don't think electing to terminate such a pregnancy makes one a villain, I doubt her decision had anything to do with 'ignorance.' There are so many legitimate issues with her; it's a cheap (and unhelpful) shot to use her decision against her. It's the fact that she doesn't want other women to even have a decision which is the problem, not that she had a baby.

[TooRaLoo]

43. Not a good idea to attack her this way

by assuming that she got prego at over 40 years old because she's illogical (assuming the baby is actually hers). Plenty of liberals probably go through this, too, and decide to continue the pregnancy even if they know that their child will be born with special needs. That's why it's called CHOICE. This is a low brow approach.