CNN lies!

[Sean Reynolds]

Sorry, but I can't see Dean losing 15% of his support in one damn week. It doesn't make ANY sense and the excuse that Dean lost 10% of Republican support sounds like lies too.

I think CNN didn't like what they were seeing and went with a new poll showing Dean getting killed by Bush in the general. This is utter BS.

[Cooley Hurd]

1. Did you hear this on Wolf Blitzer?

Is he the managing editor now?

[madfloridian]

2. Here you go, Sean.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/05/elec04.poll.democrats.poll/index.html

The Dean blog just posted this poll for all to see. That is how you take charge of something.

Now let CNN squirm. They said people were not back at work. Hogwash, baloney.

Now let them figure how to handle it with the campaign.

You are right, Sean, they lied.

www.blogforamerica.com

[Sean Reynolds]

4. Notice the date on that poll as well?

Monday, January 5, 2004 Posted: 6:54 PM EST (2354 GMT)

That was YESTERDAY!

Something's rotten in the state of Denver! ;)

[Hawkeye-X]

17. Hey! I resemble that...

I live in Denver, it isn't rotten. Maybe Denmark?

Hawkeye-X

[jedicord]

9. 399 of 1004 Respondents were Registered Dems

That's only 40% of those polled. Somehow it seems the other 60% would be inclined to vote for *Bush* any way. Looking at it that way, Dean seems to be doing even better against him. Also, it would seem that the 60% would want to skew the results of the Dem to Dem comparison.

Wonder how many Reg. Dems were in the "new and improved" poll?

[in_cog_ni_to]

40. THAT was yesterday. THIS was today.

Today's Wolf Blitzer had a NEW poll with Bush Dean and Clark

Bush......45 or 46...can't remember Bush's #'s exactly, but this is close because Scneider says he's MORE than 20 points ahead of Dean.

Dean......24

Clark.....20

SCHNEIDER: But seniors are not all that thrilled with the Medicare Reform Bill, or the prescription drug plan. And the front- runner for the Democratic nomination is a physician. Speaking of Howard Dean, let's see how he's doing.

Dean is still the front-runner, but not by much. General Wesley Clark is catching up with him. Clark is the only Democratic candidate to show momentum in the past month. The attacks on Dean from his fellow Democrats could be taking a toll on the front-runner.

Here's where the presidential race stands right now: a blowout. President Bush leads Howard Dean by more than 20 points.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER: Ever hear the Latin phrase vox populi vox dei? Well, Wolf, I'm sure you have. You're a classical scholar. It means, the voice of the people is the voice of God. Well, this poll backs up what Pat Robertson said the lord told him would happen in the election. Reverend Robertson has his sources and we have ours -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, one quick question, Bill. This new poll shows a very wide gap between the president and Howard Dean in a hypothetical contest.

But over the weekend, there was a CNN/"TIME" magazine poll which showed, what, a 5 percent gap?

SCHNEIDER: Well, we compared those two poles, because we were curious. What happened? Here's what happened. Republicans have closed ranks behind President Bush. In that earlier poll, over 10 percent of Republicans -- I think it was 12 percent -- were supporting Howard Dean in a race between Dean and Bush.

Now Dean's support has vanished among Republicans. It's negligible. So what seems to have happened is, all those terrible things Howard Dean has been saying about President Bush have finally cost him any possible support he ever would have had from Republicans. And maybe, too, that earlier poll was taken over the New Year's holiday. So that holiday spirit may have worn off.

BLITZER: Bill Schneider, always assessing all the poll numbers for us. Bill, thank you very much for that informative report.

[BootinUp]

3. Polls that don't agree with any others

are suspect plain and simple.

The CNN/TIME Poll showing Bush 5 pts over Dean does not compare favorably with any other polls. It was probably a bad poll to begin with.

[madfloridian]

6. That is baloney. You don't know that.

They need to not take polls if they are not accurate. They made a big deal of the rest of it. It is up at the Polling Report.

[BootinUp]

11. I give up

I am not going to start a flame war with you.

Polls generally have a confidence level of 95% that means 5 out of 100 will be "bad" polls basically.

[madfloridian]

12. Hey, I hate polls.

I just don't think the media should take them and hide them. I hate polls, I agree. I will just stand up and fight when they try to hide one because people were not at work.

[bearfartinthewoods]

27. i've been afraid of this..

that poll was just too good to be true. the thing with polls is to watch a slew of them for trends. the poll stuck out like a sore thumb as compared to the others.....sheeeeit.

[windansea]

41. exactly

a very sore thumb

[RUexperienced]

5. WHat poll, what numbers?

[Sean Reynolds]

8. These polls:

Bush is beating Dean 51 percent to 46 percent in a recent CNN/Time poll. BUT today CNN came out with another poll that shows Dean losing to Bush by 20%.

[RUexperienced]

19. THanks, but I cannot find the story at cnn.com

<<BUT today CNN came out with another poll that shows Dean losing to Bush by 20%.>>

[HFishbine]

31. Here's their crappy explaination

WOODRUFF: All right, Bill. Bill, you talked there at the end about a 22-point spread between President Bush and Howard Dean. Both of us know that it was just a few days ago (yesterday, actually) that the CNN-"TIME" Magazine poll showed Bush just five points ahead of Howard Dean. How do you explain the discrepancy?

SCHNEIDER: Well, we were wondering about that. So we looked at the two polls, and here's what happened. Republicans have closed ranks behind President Bush. In the last poll, the Republican vote was about 12 percent for Howard Dean. Now it's virtually disappeared. Just three percent of Republicans say they would imagine supporting Governor Dean in the election. You know, it may be those terrible things that Howard Dean has been saying about President Bush, or here's another possibility. The last poll was taken over the New Year's holiday. It could just be that, at least among the Republicans, the holiday spirit has worn off.

So a supposed 9 point decline in republican support is used to explain a 15 point decline in Dean's numbers versus Bush. I hate when my intellegence is insulted.

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0401/06/ip.00.html

[spooky3]

37. And, a more likely explanation lies in poll methodology

Were response rates, sampling techniques, question wording, etc., the same?

What evidence do we have of any intervening events that were so substantial they could cause such a change? Does Schneider have any data at all, or is s/he completely speculating? If the latter, gee, I wonder why no one ever suggests "maybe the media are not portraying the Democratic candidates as fairly or favorably as they do the other side?"

[bobbieinok]

7. I think it's really weird that all the votes for the other candidates

are discussed as a majority who don't want Dean

Grief, if there are so many candidates, one before any vote would be quite unlikely to have 56%.

It's just weird how they spin anything as anti 'whoever they're talking about this minute.'

[Jack_Dawson]

10. The Truth Hurts, doesn't it?

You can't keep swallowing your own foot and also keep a double-digit lead.

[madfloridian]

14. Did you see this? Do you think it is ok to deny a poll and hide it?

If CNN has it on their website as true, then we may claim it for ourselves.

http://www.blogforamerica.com/

The blog posts the results at this site;
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/05/elec04.poll.democrats.poll/index.html

Now CNN must explain why they can say the results are not valid because people were not at work? That is just silly.

[madfloridian]

15. If there is another showing Clark closer, that is fine with me.

I hate polls, but I don't like people using them to gloat. I am not gloating, I am angry that CNN lied. I heard them do it two days.
If you are not angry then you are not aware. This is not a Clark/Dean thing, this is about being honest.

[Jack_Dawson]

22. CNN's polls have always been dubious

I only trust Newsweek and Gallup. CNN just likes to stir the pot. OR...maybe the incessant attacks on Dean by hacks like Lieberman are taking a toll...

[madfloridian]

32. Only Newsweek and Gallup?

Please say why not the others? Aside from CNN which this week is evident.

[INTELBYTES]

38. Yepper!

If he would just keep his mouth shut until the G.E. he might have a chance!

[fizzana]

13. At this point all polls are fairly meaningless.

Half the country doesn't even know who Dean is yet. After the conventions polls will finally have some meaning - not before.

[madfloridian]

16. This is about lying.

CNN lied.

[Cheswick2.0]

18. they have probably changed the way they count

of course that makes no sense.

[mlawson]

20. Well, it's now 2004. Get ready for the real media whore attacks.

The election season must be officially underway now. This LIE may be mild compared to what we can expect to come.

[picus9]

21. Will it be a lie?

If he is crushed on election day.

[madfloridian]

23. CNN spins and lies, and it is all ok now. What goes on here?

Are you guys totally unable to distinguish reality and spin? This is not about Dean,it is about getting the media to tell the truth.

God help us if we have come so far it matters more to bash.

[MidwestMomma]

24. Well, I'm not going to stick up for CNN

They have no credibility with me. So what did they do? They posted one set of poll results on their website and then changed them while reporting them on the TV? That's must be what makes them the most 'trusted news channel'.

I think the last show I liked on there was the Spin Room, cause at least it was honest about what it was all about.

Now they are just CNN SPIN...the most trusted network to screw with the public's perceptions of EVERYTHING!

On a side note, did you see that god-awful headline about the mars rover on their front page? The headline reads:

'Shock and awe' at images from Mars

Unfrigginbelievable. Can't let the public forget about the 'terror' even when reporting on Mar's terra.

http://www.cnn.com/

CNN makes me want to :puke: :puke:

[madfloridian]

25. They are still there at their site.

From yesterday, referring to a poll just a few days ago.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/05/elec04.poll.democrats.poll/index.html

This new poll is so different it is almost surreal.
We all need to be careful about these polls.

[BootinUp]

26. 2 different polls had 2 different results

It does happen, besides the polls weren't done by the same people anyways, probably different methodology.

:shrug:

[madfloridian]

30. CNN Time involved in both.

They did not quote the Bush/Dean match until they got many calls, then they said it was because people were not at work.

I don't believe Bush is that high either anymore. He is not even that high around our area.

[beaconess]

28. Why is it that CNN is the ultimate truthteller when the polls favor Dean

but is completely unreliable - in fact a liar - when it does a poll showing Dean's numbers slipping?

Either CNN is reliable or they are not. If they're unreliable when you don't like the numbers, how can their poll be trusted in any other context? You can't have it both ways.

[HFishbine]

29. Not even a week: 4 days (n/t)

[jpgpenn]

33. So does Dean

Dean is an open LIAR.

[Padraig18]

35. Nice, substantive reply.

You've convinced me. I am now converted. :eyes:

[jpgpenn]

36. Thanks

Quick and to the point. You sound a bit taken back by it, perhaps i can give you some feedback. Try doing a search here at DU for the very recent post of "Dean's misleading NH ad", stating he was the only candidate to be against the war. As I don't have search function I wont waste my time tracking it down. Instead I'll leave that to you and suggest you start reading the posts at DU more frequently.

[Padraig18]

39. I'll suggest to you...

... that I DO read the posts at DU, and contribute to them. A simple click on my profile icon will indicate that fact.

Thanks for playing. :hi:

[Lefta Dissenter]

34. While I love polls that show Dean losing ground,

I've decided that I'm only going to believe polls that reflect what I want to see.

I think that the accuracy is so dubious - some of the sample groups are miniscule, we don't know what questions are asked and how they're being asked... and I don't remember enough from my statistics classes to be able to analyze anything worth a shit anyway (especially after two glasses of wine)...

so, GO CLARK!

[windansea]

42. recent nationwide polls

Rasmussen Reports Jan 2-4 51% 37%
CNN/Time Dec 30-Jan 1 51% 46%
CBS/NY Times Dec 21-22 55% 35%
ABC/Washington Post Dec 18-20 55% 37%
Newsweek Dec 18-19 53% 40%
CNN/USA Today/Gallup Dec 15-16 60% 37%
Insider Advantage Dec 15-16 51% 34%
NBC/Wall Street Journal Dec 14 52% 31%
Newsweek Dec 11-12 49% 42%
Quinnipiac Dec 4-8 51% 40%
CNN/Time Nov 18-19 52% 39%
Fox News Nov 18-19 49% 36%
CNN/USA Today/Gallup Nov 10-12 53% 44%

[SahaleArm]

43. Surprise - the one anomoly was the poll that Dean supporters embrace...

The CNN/Time poll differs from every other poll, yet it's correct?

[beaconess]

44. Of course. Because that poll was favorable to Dean,

that was the one time that CNN didn't lie.

[BootinUp]

46. LOL! - You can see some trends in this post here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=72110&mesg_id=72765&page=

[Clark4VotingRights]

45. You're probably 100% right Sean. But so many Dean supporters embraced

the polls when they liked the results, even though the
corporate media is behind polls. So now that y'all don't
like the results, you reject them? (I don't mean you personally.)

I'll bet you're right; I'll be this poll and most polls are pure
propaganda. I just wonder why so many Dean supporters only doubt
the veracity of propaganda polls when they dislike the numbers.

[Name removed]

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