Shouldn't Dean either repudiate the NRA or face negative ad's?

[billbuckhead]

Howard Dean's been endorsed 8 times by this outfit that put thousands of liberals on "blacklists" and whose board members say stuff Hitler wouldn't even say in public.


Jeff Cooper
NRA Board of Directors on Inner-City Violence:
he consensus is that no more than five to ten people in a hundred who die by gunfire in Los Angeles are any loss to society. These people fight small wars amongst themselves. It would seem a valid social service to keep them well-supplied with ammunition."
<http://www.nraleaders.com/jeff-cooper.html>

Ted Nugent
NRA Board of Directors on Apartheid,

"Apartheid isn't that cut and dry. All men are not created equal. The
preponderance of South Africa is a different breed of man. I mean that with
no disrespect. I say that with great respect. I love them because I'm one of
them. They are still people of the earth, but they are different. They still
put bones in their noses, they still walk around naked, they wipe their
butts with their hands … These are different people. You give 'em
toothpaste, they fuc#ing eat it ... I hope they don't become civilized.
They're way ahead of the game."
--Detroit Free Press Magazine

On Racism:
"I'm a fun guy, not a sexist or a racist…. I use the word ni##er a lot
because I hang around with a lot of ni##ers …."
--Detroit Free Press Magazine

On Hillary Clinton:
A "Toxic cun# … This bitch is nothing but a two-bit whore for Fidel Castro."
--Westworld Newspaper.

<http://www.nraleaders.com/ted-nugent.html>

[HFishbine]

1. FACT CHECK

"Howard Dean's been endorsed 8 times by (the NRA)."

Source?

[Dookus]

3. I have no idea how many times he's been endorsed.....

but he gets an A rating from them. You don't even need a permit to carry a concealed weapon in Vermont.

I'll never understand how nominally "liberal" people can overlook this. I suspect that as recently as four years ago, many of the Dean supporters here would've found an NRA A rating to be a negative against a "progressive" candidate.

If Dean had a bad rating from them and Clark got an A, we'd never hear the end of it.

Fortunately, Clark believes in reasonable gun control. That used to be a good old-fashioned Democratic issue.

[Padraig18]

10. Dean believes in 'reasonable gun control', too, Dookus.

He supports all current Federal legislation and supports closing the gun-show loophole; he believes any additional laws should be left to the individual states to tailor to their own needs/wants, as they see fit.

[Dookus]

11. Sorry...

but I think requiring a permit to carry a concealed firearm is "reasonable". Dean doesn't. Fair enough.

But my bigger point is that only a few years ago, most "liberals" would find an NRA A rating to be a negative.

[Padraig18]

22. I can't speak for 'most liberals'.

I've always owned firearms, so I certainly know that that 'most liberals' group would not have included me. :)

[Dookus]

27. This isn't about owning firearms....

the old "they're gonna take our guns away" is a right-wing canard.

it's about reasonable measures to ensure safety. Like background checks. Like child safety locks. Like mandatory safety instruction.

Even George H.W. Bush had the decency to denounce the NRA. And, it's possible to have Howard Dean's position on guns, and STILL denounce the NRA for its tactics.

[Padraig18]

29. Bush 'denounced' the NRA? When?

I remember him disagreeing with them on a matter or two, but I've never heard of him 'denouncing' them.

[Dookus]

35. I'm referring

to George H. W. Bush, the current resident's father.

After the NRA sent out a fundraising letter referring to ATF agents as "Jack-booted thugs", he very publicly resigned from the NRA and soundly condemned their tactics.

[Wickerman]

42. For the record

I am certainly no fan of King Bush the First :puke:

http://www.commondreams.org/news2001/0126-02.htm

...in 1995 former President George H. W. Bush resigned as a Life Member from the NRA, stating, "To attack Secret Service Agents or ATF people or any government law enforcement people as `wearing Nazi bucket helmets and black storm trooper uniforms' wanting to `attack law abiding citizens' is a vicious slander on good people."

[KaraokeKarlton]

46. We don't need to have permits to carry concealed here

We have virtually no gun crime. Kindly don't tell me what I need in my state. Do what you want in your state, but leave mine alone, thanks.

[KaraokeKarlton]

45. Clark likes gun control? Good. I'll have to tell my NH friends.

What is Clarks specific policy on gun control? You do realize that favoring more gun control kills you with the swing voters and in NH don't you? Why do you think Kerry is tanking there? He favors gun control and NH doesn't.

[JVS]

70. Attention swing voters: Clark is a gun grabbing Liberal.

That will sure help him in the red states.

[sandnsea]

81. He said so

"I've been endorsed by the National Rifle Association,'' Dean tells audiences at almost every stop, referring to NRA's support of him when he was Vermont's governor for 11 years."

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/specialnews/dean/103.htm

[Padraig18]

2. Oh, Jeez...

Is this kind of garbage post indicative of what the board is becoming? :puke:

[Dookus]

4. Padraig...

why not respond with substance?

The fact is, Dean gets an A rating from the NRA. Not too long ago, that would've been looked upon very poorly most liberals.

[Padraig18]

5. This is an incredible non-issue, Dookus---that's why.

The fact of the matter is that owning a gun is legal, whether some people like it, or not. I could just as easily ask when Kerry was going to renounce the Skull and Bones Society, and it would be about as substantive... :eyes:

[Democrats unite]

7. But this isn't about Kerry, it's about Deans a rating...

It's one of the few things I respect about Dean.

[Padraig18]

9. No, it's a simple smear thread.

No 'debate' is wanted, just another flame war.

[corporatewhore]

74. ever hear of a little highschool called columbine

[Padraig18]

77. Your point?

Last time I looked, Colorado had laws against murder, but those laws didn't stop what happened, either. :shrug:

[blondeatlast]

6. What is wrong with debating an issue?

This is what concerns me most about Dean. AZ's primary is in 3 weeks, and I have yet to make up my mind. Threads like this are helpful; even if they do get nasty.

[Padraig18]

8. What is relevant about it?

If you want a debate about Dean's 2nd Amendment stance, that's one thing; this is a simple smear/flame bait post.

[billbuckhead]

12. This isn't about the 2nd amendment, it's about the NRA's racism

I say it's no accident that Dean's last Confederate flag flap was when he was on the stump talking about guns, it's all related. Dean tries to have this issue both ways, he's all about "educating" white people when the camera's are rolling but then he winks at the NRA when the mainstream isn't looking.

[Padraig18]

15. Riiiiight, bill.

And all that talk about 'states rights' is just 'code', too. Next thing we know, Dewan will enslave Black Americans again... :eyes:

[billbuckhead]

52. By addressing the NRA as "code" you're admitting that it exists

If there is no such thing as "code", how did you see it as "code"? You, Padraig was looking for it. I didn't talk about "code" once in this discussion.

[Padraig18]

71. Apparently, sarcasm is lost on some people.

:eyes:

[HFishbine]

36. "Howard Dean's been endorsed 8 times by (the NRA)."

Source?

[Dookus]

14. I agree

using Ted Nugent quotes to define the NRA is cheap. But the issue of importance to me is why self-defined liberals who love Howard Dean aren't worried by his support from the NRA.

I find it odd that so many people changed their opinions about gun control in the last year or two.

[Padraig18]

16. That last year or two...

... has caused MANY people to re-think a lot of issues, Dookus, the 2nd Amendment simply being one of them.

[Dookus]

19. So you're saying that...

it's just coincidence that a bunch of liberals just recently decided that the NRA is right on the issues? Would they have had the same revelation if Dean wasn't their favorite candidate?

From the Burlington Free Press:

When issues of concern to the NRA came up in Vermont how to perform background checks on gun purchases and whether to ban guns on school grounds Dean took positions amenable to the NRA but did so without fanfare.
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/specialnews/dean/103.htm

What's wrong with background checks? Why shouldn't guns be banned in schools?

[Padraig18]

21. I'm not a mind reader, Dookus.

I have no idea why they changed. Current federal alw DOES prohibit possession of guns on school grounds, and supercedes state laws re: background checks on purchases.

[Democrats unite]

18. Interesting link...

http://www.boomundo.com/dean/nra.htm

[blondeatlast]

54. Then alert on it.

[Capn Sunshine]

13. Negative ads from WHO?

republicans?

They sure as hell won't run them on the NRA topic.
You making a media buy?

[billbuckhead]

17. Other candidates in the short run, advocates for sensible gun regulation

in the long run. Middle America needs to hear this.

[Padraig18]

20. We already HAVE sensible gun regulation. n/t

[billbuckhead]

24. This thread is not about guns it's about the NRA

How about NRA board member Grover Norquist saying that "bipartisanship is like "date" rape"? Does Howard Dean agree with that?

[Padraig18]

26. No, this thread is about slinging shit, and hoping some will stick.

"I have in my hand a list of Communist...".

:puke:

[HFishbine]

34. "Howard Dean's been endorsed 8 times by (the NRA)."

Source?

[blondeatlast]

55. Not IMHO.

[Padraig18]

72. Then *that* is a subject for honest debate.

This "I have in my hand a list of Communist..." crapola is NOT, unfortunately. :shrug:

[HFishbine]

39. "Howard Dean's been endorsed 8 times by (the NRA)."

Source?

[HFishbine]

41. "Howard Dean's been endorsed 8 times by (the NRA)."

Source?

[DancingBear]

23. I'd probably word it another way

The premise of NRA vs. liberal is valid, especialy when viewed in the climate dictated over the last several years by talk radio et al. Perhaps the question to ask of Dean is if he agrees with the positions taken by the NRA on various issues, and then perhaps reference the abovementioned comments. it is true that Dean does stump on his "gun rating" fairly hard, so he should be held accountable in some fashion to see if he is not just trying to have the cake and eat it too.

Several other candidates favor sensible gun laws as well, and (at least one) has held one once or twice. :). This type of questioning would not be out of line for them, either. I must say, however, that they have not been pandering to the gun vote like Dean, who has left himself open to such questioning by his efforts to recast himself (for the south, I would assume) as a good 'ol (Vermont?) boy.

I know you're on here Padraig - what say you? :hi:

[Padraig18]

25. I'm always ready to discuss 2nd Amendment issues.

I'm not prepared to dicuss scurrilous shit slung at my candidate, however. "I have in my hand a list of Communist..." shit does not get the respect of decent debate from me. :)

[DancingBear]

32. You're not accusing me, are you?

Somewhat ambiguous response from you - I don't think you were, but, could you clarify, please?

I'm curious as to if you think your candidate is fair game for NRA questions predicated on his verbiage on same.

BTW - "verbiage" is a much cooler word than "scurrilous" :)

[Padraig18]

37. No, not you.

These sorts of deliberate 'spin' posts containing the most vile, repugnant language possible about my candidate are not meant to encourage debate; they are simply posted to start a flame war.

[DancingBear]

43. I think this one is over the top, myself

Perhaps we can discuss the questions I've posed in another thread, at another time?

[Padraig18]

44. I'd be happy to do so.

:hi:

[billbuckhead]

33. What does Dean say about the NRA blacklist? I haven't heard a peep

Here's some Charlton Heston remarks about gays if one doesn't care what the NRA board members say about blacks.

Charlton Heston
Former NRA President

"Mainstream America is counting on you to draw your sword and fight for them. These people have precious little time and resources to battle misguided Cinderella attitudes, the fringe propaganda of the homosexual coalition, the feminists who preach that it is a divine duty for women to hate men, blacks who raise a militant fist with one hand while they seek preference with the other …"

"I remember when European Jews feared to admit their faith. The Nazis forced them to wear yellow stars as identity badges. It worked. So what color star will they pin on gun owners chests? How will the self-styled elite tag us? There may not be a Gestapo officer on every street corner, but the influence on our culture is just as pervasive."

"On the other hand, I find my blood pressure rising when Clinton's cultural shock troops participate in gay-rights fundraisers but boycott gun-rights fundraisers and then claim it's time to place homosexual men in tents with Boy Scouts, and suggest that sperm donor babies born into lesbian relationships are somehow better served and more loved." --Speech to Free Congress Foundation

And here's David Duke's endorsement of what Heston said:

" I was astounded to read these courageous remarks by Charlton Heston. I am thankful to hear a man with such high esteem say essentially the same things for which I have been reviled by the liberal media. His words should be reproduced and put into the hands of every American."
--DAVID DUKE's response to Heston's speech


<http://www.nraleaders.com/charlton-heston.html>

[HFishbine]

38. "Howard Dean's been endorsed 8 times by (the NRA)."

Source?

[Padraig18]

40. Gee, I wonder what Gov. Blagoevich thinks about it?

More unrelated crap... :eyes:

[Fleshdancer]

28. I need a source for the endorsements claim

The NRA has given Dean an "A" rating because he thinks guns should be mostly a state issue, not a federal issue. He is for the Brady Bill and thinks the Assault Weapons Ban should be renewed when it expires. So basically, he thinks we should keep what federal gun laws we have, but leave the rest to the state.

"Just as we resist attempts by President Bush to dictate to the states how we run our school systems and what kind of welfare programs to have, we need to resist attempts to tell states how to deal with guns beyond existing federal law and fixing a few loopholes and problems."

http://beta.deanforamerica.com/site/cg/index.html?type=page&pagename=policy_statement_civilrights_sensiblegunlaws

While I personally don't like guns, the idea that every NRA member is a racist is insulting.

[Padraig18]

31. He is also in favor of closing the 'gun show loophole'.

Gee, he supports Brady, he supports the AWB, he supports cloing the various loopholes, but some people are just BOUND AND DETERMINED to spin him into some sort of RW kook on the 2nd Amendment. Makes me want to :puke:.

[blondeatlast]

56. Now we are getting somewhere . . .

As an "undecided" (and believe me, I am) I need THIS kind of info.

[Padraig18]

78. Glad I could help.

The nature of a post such as the initial one here will rarely produce any genuine discussion of issues and policy, sadly, since that is not the purpose of the post, IMO.

Pretty sad, isn't it?

[KaraokeKarlton]

48. Yes, they've endorsed him sometimes

The NRA would rather endorse a Democrat who isn't anti-gun than a Republican who isn't anti-gun on state levels because the NRA is also big on land conservation. Dean protected more land in Vermont than all other governors before him combined and he allowed hunting on that land. That's why the NRA endorsed him over the Republican candidate. Not only did he not want new gun legislation, he was very big on land conservation, the two big issues for NRA members.

Dean doesn't control who does or doesn't choose to endorse him. And just because there are a few freaks in the NRA it doesn't mean all NRA members are. My father was an NRA member for most of his life and an avid hunter. He also almost always voted for Democrats. My father is not a racist, sexist or any such thing. I find it very offensive that anyone on this site would stereotype people in such a way. It's disgusting. :puke:

[billbuckhead]

59. The NRA board of directors is full of racists. A fact. Prove me wrong?

<http://www.nraleaders.com/jeff-cooper.html> Here's the link. Prove me wrong. They're nuts. They got Brittany Spears on an enemies list.

[Forkboy]

61. Hell,I have Spears on my enemies list too

:)

[the populist]

30. He should definitely face the negative ads.

Few Dean supporters I suspect would stop supporting him on this issue alone. If he wins Iowa the nomination I think is his, so he doesn't have anything to lose. And there's no way Bush and company would use that against him.

I like his position on guns anyway, but it's not an important issue for me.

[Capn Sunshine]

47. I repeat, WHAT negative ads.

Unless your ultimate goal is to keep Bush in power, WHY on Earth would you run a negative ad against the presumptive nominee?

Unless your goal is to keep Bush in?

[billbuckhead]

50. Theres a bunch of links.Don't you know what your own candidate stands for

<# http://edition.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/31/elec04.prez.kerry.dean.guns.ap/ >
<http://sgv4kucinich.us/flyers/KucinichVDean.doc>
<http://constellationdesign.net/S4K/Gun%20Safety%20Talkers.doc>

[clarknyc]

67. Yes I do.

I don't agree with all of his positions, but enough.

However, efforts such as yours that imply ignorance on my part regarding who I support are just pompous, insulting, and do nothing for your cause, whatever that may be.

[Clark4VotingRights]

49. Um, I'm for Clark, but I think gun control is a huge wedge/losing issue

For the Dems.
It looses millions of votes for them; it's likely
too late for gun control in the states anyway (as Steve
Earle so often says); and watch Bowling for Columbine.
Number of guns isn't the only reason why there are so
many gun murders in the US. Canada has a ton of guns,
and hardly any gun murders.

This is a poison issue for the Dems. A wedge. No
good can come of it. At least not *now*.

If they do take it on it needs to be years down the road,
when we don't have fascists in the white house.

IMO Dean is being smart on this issue and I think the other Dems
should follow his lead.

[billbuckhead]

51. I like Clark because of what he said about assault weapons

Clark is a straightforward kind of guy. Weapons of mass destruction right here at home cause more death and mayhem than Iraqs alleged WMD's.

[lcordero]

53. I'm going to feel nauseous for defending Dean on this

http://www.guncite.com/journals/gun_control_wtr8512.html

http://www.jpfo.org/GCA_68.htm
Startling evidence suggests that the Gun Control Act of 1968 was lifted, almost in its entirety, from Nazi legislation.

GCA '68 puts your life at risk right now. You have a constitutional civil right to be armed in order to protect yourself, because under U.S law the police have no duty to protect the average person:


"There is no constitutional right to be protected by the state (or Federal) against being murdered by criminals or madmen. It is monstrous if the state fails to protect its residents against such predators but it does not violate the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, or, we suppose, any other provision of the Constitution. The Constitution is a charter of negative liberties: it tells the state (gov't) to let people alone; it does not require the federal government or the state to provide services, even so elementary a service as maintaining law and order"
(Bowers v. DeVito, U.S. Court of Appeals, Seventh Circuit, 686F.2d 616 <1982>).



Article II of the Soldier's Code of Conduct:

I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.

Keep in mind that I may not have a means to win but I would still have a means to resist in a feasible manner.


And to those of you who say that this is scare-mongering...Keep in mind that the same set of criminals keep on popping up in the government over, and over, and over and that's because both sides are in on it. Remember the S & L scandal, I do and I definitely won't get over it.

If the million or so that were protesting in DC and NYC back in February were packing there would have been no Iraq War:grr:

[John_H]

57. Remember Dean RAISED MONEY from the NRA

As Chairman of the Democratic Governors Association Dean hobnobbed with the insider's insiders.

"The Democratic Governos'Association operates in the same way, with those who give or raise $100,000 getting named to a "finance council," says executive director BJ Thornberry. Big donors get invited to VIP receptions and other exclusive special events, she says.

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/10/23/loc_newmoney23.html


Here's who he sat on the "finance council" with

Philip Morris $337,096
Pfizer Inc. $331,000
GTECH Corp. $329,767
Citigroup $233,955
AT&T Corp. $215,250
National Rifle Association $205,500


http://www.publicintegrity.org/527/search.aspx?act=com&orgid=139

[Hoppin_Mad]

58. "Howard Dean's been endorsed 8 times by (the NRA)" SOURCE ? -eom-

[billbuckhead]

60. Is CNN not a good enough source? It is when you like the poll.

<http://edition.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/31/elec04.prez.kerry.dean.guns.ap/> Any proof this is not true? How many links do you need?

[HFishbine]

62. So you AND Kerry are wrong (or Kerry is a liar)

Clicked on your link and what do I see, a quote from John Kerry repreating the same lie, that Dean was enodorsed 8 times by the NRA.

Kerry is a liar and your post is incorrect.

[Forkboy]

63. I settle for a link that actually proves you correct

and not what another candidate says.It may be true,but your link here proves nothing.

[IndianaGreen]

64. Go ahead, and scare millions of gun owners from voting Democratic!

When are the "gun grabbers" going to realize that the right to bear arms is as much a Constitutional right as freedom of speech.

Many people that agree with Democrats on the issues, are turned off by what they perceive as anti-gun rights elements in the Democratic Party.

Even John Kerry has been smart enough to appeal to many Democrats and independent voters that are fearful of the antigun rhetoric they hear from some Democratic quarters.

[billbuckhead]

66. Why is OK to call someone a gungrabber?Sounds sexual or at least dishonest

Just because a majority of people are for regulation of weapons doesn't mean they're all "gun grabbers". Who wants neighbors with WMD's Are you defending the NRA and the GOA board members? Do you think Brittany Spears is going to grab your gun? or Dustin Hoffman?

[IndianaGreen]

69. I am defending the right of states to determine their own gun regulations

without having the federal government impose "one size fits all" onerous gun restrictions that infringe on the right to bear arms.

[billbuckhead]

86. Guns are now part of the INTERNATIONAL war on terrorism

America's not provincial anymore. Sniper rifles sold in Vermont could end killing someone anywhere in the world.

[Padraig18]

93. American weapons are not generally favored abroad.

Frankly, other countries make weapons better suited to their purposes and much more cheaply, at that.

[RetroLounge]

65. Has Ted Nugent endorsed Howard Dean?

What alternate universe do you live in?

What kind of bullsh*t post is this? Do you just make shit up?

Here, paste this into your next post. It makes just as much sense.
"John Gacy was a Clown. Howard Dean went to a Circus once and liked the clowns. Does Dean support Gacy? Is this the kind of candidate you want?"

The NRA Endorsed Dean? Prove it. You can't.

If Dean wins the nomination, are you going to stop this bullsh*t???

This sort of tossing any shit you can find against the wall is just pathetic and really beneath contempt.

_|_ ( and I wish this still worked... )

[billbuckhead]

68. You tell me how many times Dean got an "A" rating?

You tell me how many times Dean got an "A" rating? It's also on a Kucinich website. I guess he's liar too. Everybody's a liar except Howard Dean.
<http://sgv4kucinich.us/flyers/KucinichVDean.doc>


If Dean isn't abnormally friendly with the NRA, why are people trying start a movement to get the NRA to endorse Dean?

[Padraig18]

79. "..why are people trying start a movement to get the NRA to endorse Dean?"

What 'people', Bill? What is 'abnormally unfriendly with the NRA'? More 'throw it and see what sticks', apparently... :eyes:

[billbuckhead]

88. Heres the link. No other 2004Dem is courting NRA support but Dean

<http://www.boomundo.com/dean/nra.htm>

[Padraig18]

89. Ummm....

the link is to a group urging people to write the NRA to get them to endorse Dean. from what I read there (and I read it all), this group is not affiliated with the Dean campaign. do you somehow have proof that they do?

On the other part of your post, please prove that Gov. Dean is actively seeking NRA support.

[corporatewhore]

73. He should do what dustin hoffman did i have no respect for NRA

[maddezmom]

75. that was classic

asking to be blacklisted...hehe

[w4rma]

76. That A rating will help him get elected and help the Democratic Party

in rural states. If he sticks to his guns and says that he won't support any gun control whatsoever beyond the minor things he has endorsed, then that will go a long way in helping the Democratic Party to appear moderate on guns again.

Many gun owners felt betrayed by Clinton's gun control policy, just as many workers felt betrayed by Clinton's support of NAFTA and free trade.

Dems need to back off on gun control, IMHO. The Democratic Party needs rural voters, not just the urban ones.

[Clark Campaigner]

80. Dean's position on guns is the same as Bush's

He thinks that and wrapping himself in the Confederate flag and talking about Jesus will win in the south.

[Padraig18]

82. Is that what he thinks?

Wow, I'm so glad you cleared all that up for us. :eyes:

[billbuckhead]

83. So you're admitting Dean is like Bush on the NRA issue

Clark better watch or he'll be on NRA enemies list.

[Padraig18]

85. No.

Quit spinning what I write in very plain English, bill.

[RetroLounge]

91. Spinning spinning out of control

just like your candidate...

[Hep]

84. I am the NRA

You bring up hitler and then make generalizations about people that would make him shout Sieg Heil. You really oughtta stop the blind hatred.

[billbuckhead]

87. It's simple Are known racists on the board of directors of the NRA?

The answer is obviously yes. How can someone accept the endorsement of such an organization without objecting to it?

[Padraig18]

90. When will sen. Kerry denounce Skull and Bones.

It has known war mongers and war profiteers in it's membership (Bush).

[RetroLounge]

92. an A rating is not an endorsement

but you knew that, didn't you...

[Hep]

99. Are perfectly normal people MEMBERS of the NRA?

Yep. So let's paint them all with a broad brush so that we don't have to actually open our minds to what are some pretty compelling arguments.

[Padraig18]

94. Kick to prove copntinuation of a flame war

[kerrygoddess]

95. NRA BLACKLIST

http://www.nrablacklist.com/

I join John Kerry, Oprah Winfrey, Sherryl Crow, Jerry Seinfeld, the AFL-CIO, the NEA, Jack Nicholson, Bruce Springsteen, Matt Damon, The LWV, Paul Newman, Missy Elliot, Madonna, Natalie Merchant, Sean Connery, Shania Twain, The New York Times, Julia Roberts, Maya Angelou, Bonnie Raitt, the YWCA, Dustin Hoffman, NOW, NAACP, Walter Cronkite, George Clooney, Lenny Kravitz, ABC, NBC and a host of others (over 100,000), as a member of the NRA BLACKLIST!

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/7633057.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp

http://www.stopthenra.com/site/PageServer?pagename=ads

[mzmolly]

96. Interesting that some of the afore mentioned have endorsed Dean?

I guess I've joined "them" in seeing the bigger picture.

[Padraig18]

97. 'Proof of the continuing flame war in another thread' kick

[beawr]

98. This is just silly

If we are going to excoriate Dean for the nuts in the NRA, what's next? Because Kucinich is a Vegan, we are going to slam him for the nuts in PETA?

The right question is: Did Dean kiss the NRA's ass? Did he change his mind? I really do not think that the NRA is a big voice in Vermont, so Dean probably did not seek the NRA's blessing.

[Padraig18]

100. A refreshing voice of reason.

:hi: