Clark people better be ready for incoming fire

[mouse7]

If there's anything at all to the skyrocketing Dean unfavorables in the latest CNN poll, Clark people better be ready for the negative attacks to commence on him by next week.

You have to be on top of your research material. You have to know Clark's positions like the back of your own hands and be ready to respond to any and all things said about him.

Someone MUST come out of the primary season with low enough unfavorable ratings to challenge Bush. If there's anything to that latest CNN poll, that may be Clark.

A candidate cannot win when he's detested by 1/3 of the electorate.

If Dean's unfavorables really are now up to 38%, it could be a fatal blow.

[janx]

1. Rally the troops...

It's time for the flakjackets!

[Clark4VotingRights]

38. Quote from General Wesley Clark

"The ultimate consideration for anyone running for president against George Bush 'how much pain you can bear."

Numerous sources, including:

http://www.bartcop.com/073103lyons.htm

[BobbyJay]

2. Any candidate who proposes raising EVERYONE'S taxes is bound to

have some high negatives.



www.clark04.com

[KaraokeKarlton]

7. www.bushtax.com

www.bushtax.com

[maddezmom]

65. where is www.deantax.com?

[windansea]

3. we be ready

thanks for the headsup!

[jmaier]

4. It's certainly true

that if anyone ascends in the nomination race that they can expect to be savaged pretty quickly. These folks play hard.

On the Dean side, post nomination, I wouldn't worry too much about 38% negatives, if they're even accurate among Dem voters, they'll rally around the nominee. Both Dean and Clark can make a very good run at Bush -- naturally, I think Clark could do just a bit better. :-)



Wes Clark. He will make an extraordinary American President.

[Skwmom]

54. Taking voters for granted and thinking they will

rally around whomever the Democrat's nominate may prove to be a VERY fatal mistake.

[PAMod]

67. You are correct, no voter is automatic and each deserves to be courted...

all the way to November 2.

It is especially true this year, since a couple of our candidates have drawn new people into the fight. We've all heard about those folks' "transferability".

My feeling is if their candidate loses fairly (perception), I think we can keep those people in the fold.

I do see another 50/50 election in November 2004.

Hang on to your seat & keep your eyes on the prize!

[Renew Deal]

5. I am not sure if you get why this is happening.

Dean has taken on the right and the left. He has denounced the DLC as republicans and slammed Clinton. The Clinton people are so pissed, they are even fighting back. Carville was fine until a couple weeks ago. Now he seems more critical of Dean. This is coming from all over because it has become Dean against the world.

Your logic is sound, but Clark has not angered the left or the center. He has only gone after the right. If they are the only ones running this crap, he will be fine. As you may have seen, Clark's people know how to respond. You might have seen how they responded to Lieberman. I don't think any Dem can do a good job touching him, and the return attack may be brutal.

[clarknyc]

25. Dean never slammed Clinton and you know it.

It never happened. He never slammed Clinton. Ever. But if you're convinced, please provide a link. Thanks...

[madfloridian]

6. I don't think he is losing supporters.

Meetup shot up like crazy. It was 168,000 just a few days ago, and it 170,000 tonight. We have donated almost $133,000 dollars on the bat since this morning.

I don't think support is dwindling. I think we all need to quit taking the polls seriously and romp on the media when they are not fair to our candidates. Which they seldom are.

[mouse7]

33. I just want someone to survive the primary process able to win

I don't like all the negative campaigning.

I also don't like the way the media is leaving horrible distortions just laying out there.

[Crunchy Frog]

66. We already know

what the media does with Democrats. The media will do what the media will do. As for the negative campaigning, I say that whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Whatever shit is being flung right now is childsplay compared with what's coming when we have our nominee and Roves machine goes into action. It's best that our candidates get some practice for what's coming, because they're going to need it.

[Crunchy Frog]

8. Bring em on!

Wes is really good at handling people who try to attack him. You should try watching some of his interviews with RW media whores. You might be very impressed.

[arewethereyet]

9. let me know when you figure out how to wish away his recent history

of glaring inconsistancy and how it could ever be possible to make anyone believe what the right will be able to say about his exit from NATO.

But you're right about Dean's downside. I'd look to Edwards as he has no baggage and nothing but upside.

[rogerhall]

14. What inconsistancies ...

that are not already covered on http://www.clarkmyths.com/ ?

As for his 'exit from NATO', that too is covered above. Clinton and Cohen have praised Wes on two continents.

It doesn't matter what the firmly committed Bush voter thinks about Wes ... and the swing voters won't get caught up in that crap anyway. This 'fired general' crap is only for the Rove choir.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

17. Edwards has that trial lawyer background. Many people do not like lawyers

Edwards has not really been examined too much in this race. I haven't heard much that's bad, however. He seems to be a very likeable and warm person.

The meme about him is that he's too young. He will kick some serious butt in the future. Don't worry - he has plenty of time.... He's gotten a lot of experience from this race. He's been quite impressive.

[Jerseycoa]

10. Whew

I was just looking at this. It's gotta hurt.

Favorability/Unfavorability

Dems/Dem leaners:

Clark: 45% favorable / 15% unfavorable

Dean: 45% favorable / 22% unfavorable

Reps/Rep leaners

Clark: 32% favorable / 38% unfavorable

Dean: 11% favorable / 58% unfavorable

All

Clark: 37% favorable / 26% unfavorable

Dean: 28% favorable / 39% unfavorable


CNN/USA TODAY/Gallup Poll

[windansea]

11. exactly

Clark doesn't scare the middle

[RafterMan]

12. Already started

Here's one from tonight:

" Clark, after all, supported the Iraq war and even voted for President George W. Bush in November 2000," and more slander.

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040106-075056-8154r

And another:

"General Wesley Clark was relieved of command. Many of his fellow generals say it was a matter of “integrity”. They won't expand on what they meant except to say he won't get their vote.

General Clark ordered his NATO troops to attack the Russians..."

http://michnews.com/artman/publish/article_2239.shtml

God I hate them.

[janx]

15. The more popular Clark gets, the more you will hate them.

I guarantee it.

U.S. journalism is one slimy business these days.

[SahaleArm]

48. They've been slimey to Clark since day one n/t

[BootinUp]

20. Obviously they're watchin the polls too

Its going to be fun watching Clark go against these RW nutjobs. I think the best interviews I've seen are on Faux News. Second place is probably Paula Zahn. Lookin forward to more.

[Hoppin_Mad]

13. They better explain the Clark-Stevens-Club For Growth PNAC connection !

[SahaleArm]

16. Do you mean the Dean-Moore-Club For Growth PNAC connection? n/t

[Jerseycoa]

18. Who's Moore? nt

[SahaleArm]

27. See this wonderful thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php#74264

[Turkw]

19. I'm ready, haven't started negative treads or posts against other

candidates, I usually address anti-Clark smear or anti-Clark posters themselves, but I'm starting to waiver on this. I also post positive things on threads that are positive about other candidates, this will not change.

[worldgonekrazy]

32. Yeah that seems big

It almost makes Clark look like a BFEE front man.

[SahaleArm]

47. Compared to some other theories that have been floated here...

That one is small time - six degrees to General Clark.

[Clark4VotingRights]

21. Thanks mouse7, but we've been enduring incoming fire from the start.

The volume of smears against Clark were a red flag to me that
the BFEE did *not* want to go up against him.
Now that his candidacy is hitting its stride, there will be
more and more crap flung at him.

I think General Clark has known all along what he was in for.
He's hardly naive.

[Rowdyboy]

22. Please google the author of every anti-Clark piece posted....

Often, in the desparate drive to discredit Wes, opponents will post from VERY nauseating sources. Don't let anything pass without checking. If its an editorial piece, check out some of the author's other editorials-you can quickly determine if they offer legitimate criticism or not. Most often they will not. Check Amazon for their published works.

Most anti-Clark pieces have been written by extremists on the right or the left (or Serb apologists). Research the author as thoroughly as possible and don't let anything unfair slide.

[BootinUp]

23. Sound advice n/t

[NV1962]

39. Yeah, beware of the "Slobots"

I've seen sporadic hit attempts coming from what seems to be an amazingly packed group of Slobo apologists, targeting Wes Clark specifically.

It's interesting stuff to sharpen teeth and claws on, as I'm sure that similar smear will be revived, warmed up and served with gusto by the pro-B* crowd.

See the examples provided by the aptly named "Srb" on this forum on which I used to play a lot.

En garde!

[Clark4VotingRights]

24. Gene Lyons, author of "The Hunting of the President" has been reporting

Extensively, for months, on the Rovian smear plans for Clark.
This one's from Oct 29:

http://www.atwitsend.org/genelyons.html

"Last month, this column predicted that the GOP response to Gen.
Wesley Clark's presidential candidacy would be to turn him into the
Democratic equivalent of Gen. Jack D. Ripper, the megalomaniacal
crackpot in the classic film "Dr. Strangelove." Portraying Clark as mad with ambition appeared to be the only way to deal with his otherwise perfect political resume--first in his class at West Point, Rhodes Scholar, a Purple Heart and Silver Star for valor in Vietnam, NATO Supreme Commander, all that.

Besides, the outlines of the strategy were already visible. It
clearly behooves Republicans to take him out now. Clark as the
Democratic nominee would make Bush's re-election unlikely. Early
profiles by members of what ABCNews.com's The Note calls "The Gang of
500" bristled with anonymous quotes from Pentagon detractors...

...Now to a rational mind, accusing a West Point valedictorian, four-star general and presidential candidate of ambition is about as newsworthy as charging a golden retriever with an unseemly zeal for chasing tennis balls.

If the phrase "would do or say anything" sounds familiar, that's
because it comes directly out of the GOP playbook. The last Democrat
depicted as crazed with ambition was Al Gore, who never figured out how to counter a barrage of false accusations, such as the absurd canard that he claimed he'd "invented the internet," ceaselessly reiterated by Washington pundits taking dictation from the Republican National Committee..."

[Kahuna]

41. Stupid Curtis Sliwa was trying out the, Caption Queeg smear...

last week. McCain, redux. Second verse, same as the first.

[dfong63]

26. a jaundiced analysis

If Dean's unfavorables really are now up to 38%, it could be a fatal blow.

why is it that Clark supporters and Kerry supporters are always yammering about how much time there is for people to change their minds in favor of Clark or Kerry, but assume that people will never change their minds in favor of Dean?

especially when that is a process --- people moving to Dean --- that has been going on splendidly from the start?

[Rowdyboy]

28. Of course many people are moving toward Dean

and many are moving toward Clark. And others are moving in different directions. Dean has run an excellent campaign so far but 38% negatives before the first primary is not good.

I think people obviously try to slant things in their preferred direction, but---regardless of individual poster's bias'---the will of the Democratic party will emerge-be it Dean, Clark, Kucinich etc.

[billbuckhead]

29. I noticed that too. Dean's like punk musi. 35% liked it fanatically

but none of it's stars could keep up saleswise with less angry Micahel Jackson, Madonna, Pat Benatar etc in record sales.

[TexasPatriot]

31. hrmph

I remember Jello Biafra protesting the Dallas Pub Convention in 84.
I loved Op Ivy... and what Fat Mike has done with PunkVoter kicks ass. I'd listen to NOFX more, but my ex-dog ate my ex-Punk in Drublic CD (he liked the crunchy noise... he was more punk than me too i guess)

and I'm a Clark supporter (as are most of my punk-leaning friends)

I think there are a LOT of angry punks out there this year - and i expect they're in evidence in several campaigns.

[Forkboy]

64. You are correct

all my punk friends (and myself,punk fan that I am) are involved this time around.

Most seem to be Kucinich fans like me,but there's at least one that likes Dean (sorry,none for Clark yet that I know,but you're proof that they're out there).

[copithorne]

35. I remember the man from hope in '92.

"When the history of this campaign is written, they'll say that Bill Clinton took a lot of hits. But it's nothing compared to the hits taken by the people of this state and this country who work hard and play by the rules..."



Bill Clinton got hammered in the 92 primary. But he still had what it takes to make a connection with the American people and win the election.

General Wesley Clark also has what it takes. I too say bring it on. His critics will only bring shame and dishonor on themselves.

[Forkboy]

62. Pat Benatar?

just how old are you Bill? :)

[BootinUp]

68. Hey don't diss da man...Benatar still rocks :)

[nomaco-10]

30. Take Cover! Incoming!!!

Read the thread "The Smoking Gun on Clark". I've tried to be very open minded where Clark is concerned, I wanted to believe he was the real deal, but something always made me feel a little uneasy about his throwing his hat in the ring. Why was a general relieved of duty during active military service with zero elected or executive experience seeking the post of POTUS. I saw an interview on C-Span of the two guys that started the Draft Clark campaign and they came across more like a comedy duo trying to break into show business than two men on a serious quest to back a man that would make a great candidate, I've since heard they parted ways. His past voting record (he voted for 4 out of the 5 last repub presidents) his hesitation to state his newly aquired democratic party affiliation, ties to Axiom and the Stephens Group and glowing accolades for the bush cabal leave me with alot of questions about the true motives of one General Wesley Clark.

[BootinUp]

36. I tell ya

I sure am glad Clark is now clearly moving up in the polls now, cause putting up with conspiracy theory shit around here is quite tireing and I needed a lift. As far as the "substance" of your post....POOP.

If you have questions about Clark, go to www.clark04.com, and www.us4clark.com for videos/audios, and www.cspan.org for other video selections.

[Rowdyboy]

37. Very sad....

But believe what you will.

[hellhathnofury]

34. Maybe we'd run a positive campaign.

Don't assume.

[mouse7]

46. I'm refering mostly to the neo-cons

The noe-cons are really throwing crap into the primary process. They're stirring up a lot of this.

[Kahuna]

40. I know. I know full well it's gonna get nasty from

now until the nomination is wrapped up. I also know that all the other candidates will be gunning for Clark. Of course, Clark doesn't have to attack Dean. Lieberman is so good at it.

[hellhathnofury]

43. I see the DLC pawn plan is working. They're getting worried though.

Politic's is a bloodsport. I suggest the general join in. Can't be afraid of it in this career.

[Kahuna]

71. Clark doesn't need to attack. All of the others are doing it..

That is my point.

[Hawkeye-X]

42. Clark is dead on arrival

thanks to the newly discovered connection with Clark and Club for Growth.

Watch his polls drop dramatically.

Hawkeye-X

[BootinUp]

50. LOL! n/t

My Daddy worked on government projects in aerospace, now I have disowned him for being part of the MIC. /sarcasm

Is this the best you guys got?

[Mattforclark]

44. Exhibit A

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=74342

It is amazing what political primaries can do to people who are (probably) perfectly nice in any other context, and who probably share Democratic values. It is a sad reflection on human nature.

Not from the official Dean Campaign, but apparently we have our very own hit squad here at DU.

[Hawkeye-X]

45. Clark shares Democratic values? Unlikely now.

BWAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA..

Clark has been a Dem for a mere 3 months. Compared to Dean's 30 years, and Clark's 3 months. Governor vs. retired General. Experienced politican vs. neophyte politican?

Give me Dean anytime.

[Mattforclark]

49. Your 'argument style'

reminds me of right wingers I debate on other forums.

Go research what Clark did for the soldiers who served under him.

[Hawkeye-X]

52. Sorry. Clark has lost me.

And is now sharing his place with Lieberman.

I'm no longer interested in Clark now that I know what his true colors are.

Hawkeye-X

[SahaleArm]

55. Feigning interest in Clark?

That's as low as playing the self-pity card.

[BootinUp]

56. joke n/t

[maddezmom]

59. you never were interested n/t

[BootinUp]

51. As I said in another post

Clark will be under attack from the left and the right, from here on out. And left and right both have the...uh...eccentric types.

:tinfoilhat:

[SahaleArm]

53. He's been attacked by right and left sources since the beginning

From the Weekly Standard to the Nation.

[stickdog]

57. Gallup/USA Today poll had Bush 52/Gore 39 on 10/25/00.

Whatever actual unfavorable rating he does have among Dems and independents has a lot less to do with Dean, his record and his positions on the issues than it has to do with many American's only familiarity with Dean coming from a barrage of recent sound byte propaganda -- much of it spewing out of Dems.

[FubarFly]

58. Yeah, they create the unfavorability rating

with distortions and smears on Dean's character and turn around and use why it's proof he's not electable.

Cute.

Divided we fall...

And yes, that means all Democrats. :-(


The quicker we can unite behind a candidate, the better we will be able to combat the Republican shills posing as mainstream reporters and pundits. If you want to take on the frontrunner, do it on the virtue of your candidates strengths, not the other candidates weaknesses.

This should be a simple strategy for all involved. But alas...

Oh well, no one said it was going to be easy.

[Romberry]

60. Gallup.

Dean's unfavorables are nowhere near 38%. But the fact is that any Democrat that looks as if they are getting traction is going to come under the same sort of SCLM artillery barrage that Dean has been weathering these last weeks. The SCLM is determined to take down any candidate that can win against Bush. Dean today.

[BootinUp]

61. self deleted

[Skywalker]

63. If you think for one minute

that all the incoming fire will come from Dean supporters, you have not been paying attention. As Clark makes his way to the top, every candidate he passes will be taking shots at him as he leaves them behind. It's been happening to Dean for quite some time now.

Mark

[John_H]

69. If his standing up to Presstitutes like russert and Tweety are

any indication--he will totally neutralize the Rove/Media machinery like no other candidate can. He does it real time, on the air.

If you don't think that this willingness/ability is key to stopping the meme generating that killed Gore, think again.

[zulchzulu]

70. What? Dean attacking his fellow candidates again? No...way...dude...

I thought Dean said it was not a good idea to attack the other candidates. I guess that meant for that particular day.

[meow mix]

72. this warning

was very timely and correct.. good crystal ball =)