AP: "Dean has Record of Raising Property Taxes"

[flpoljunkie]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15626-2003Dec19.html

washingtonpost.com

Dean Has Record of Raising Property Taxes


By ROSS SNEYD
The Associated Press
Friday, December 19, 2003; 3:43 PM


MONTPELIER, Vt. - Democratic front-runner Howard Dean often blames President Bush's tax-cut policy for rising property taxes, but when Dean was governor of Vermont, his budget frequently came up short, forcing towns to make up the difference with property tax increases.

On the campaign trail, Dean typically assails Bush's tax cuts with the argument that they have imposed a greater burden on states, forcing them to raise taxes, reduce services while squeezing middle-class taxpayers. The presidential candidate has called for a repeal of all of Bush's tax cuts.

"Take a look at your property taxes. They probably went up," Dean said during a speech Thursday in Manchester, N.H. "That's part of the Bush Tax."

Yet, in the nearly 12 years Dean was governor, property taxes that support local schools in Vermont nearly doubled. Those that pay for municipal government went up by nearly half to make up for less money from the state. Dean, however, disputes any assertion that his policies as governor were at all similar to the Bush policies he condemns.

...more...

[Newsjock]

1. Wow! "Ross Sneyd" is...

... Nedra Pickler spelled backwards!

[MIMStigator]

2. Tax raiser draft dodger who hides records

That's the mantra and it's true enough to work.

If Dean nominated, * will win.

[Andromeda]

16. Dean didn't dodge the draft...

he had a medical deferment---1-Y. He didn't go to Canada. He didn't join the National Guard and then go AWOL the last 18 months of his service, like Bush. He didn't get a college deferment or go to Europe. He didn't lie. He could have been called up anyway, but they didn't call him.

He's not hiding his records. It's out of his hands now as they are being examined by judges who will determine what the public can see and what they can't see. He can't personally decide what is seen and what is not seen because a lawsuit has been filed. If you knew anything about the legal system you would understand that the parties involved are under the jurisdiction of the court.

Maybe the other candidates can open their records for inspection too. After all, that's only fair. If they don't, does that mean they're hiding something? Not necessarily---but in Dean's case his critics choose to believe there are nefarious reasons that some of Dean's records were sealed.

Dean does just as well as Clark, Kerry or any one of the other candidates against Bush. Check it out for yourself. Many polls have Dean doing better---some polls have another candidate doing better. During the 2000 election the polls showed that Bush polled 5-10 percentage points higher than Gore and Gore won the popular vote with 500,000 more votes than Bush.

All of the above are bogus issues blown up beyond any kind of reasonable expectation.

The Republicans are going to bash the Dem candidate for President no matter who our nominee is. If it's Clark they'll talk about his getting fired by Cohen and dissed by General Shelton when he said Clark was dismissed because of character issues. The brass at the Pentagon disliked Clark and some of his peers have indicated that they won't support him.

I like Clark and I don't believe that disgruntled officers who had policy differences with Clark are necessarily right. That is just what Rove and his minions will use---and maybe more.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

17. No he didn't, but he did what he could to avoid serving

and he admits he probably could have served had he not brought up his back condition.

[killbotfactory]

20. Everyone who was drafted tried to avoid serving..

Otherwise they would have enlisted.

And by the time Dean was called, your man Kerry was protesting the war. Kerry was promoting draft dodging.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

22. Kerry was not promoting draft dodging.

he was lobbying Washington to end the war. Dean was safely (and apathetically) in Colorado.

[killbotfactory]

23. Yeah, "This war is immoral and wrong! Take back my medals!"

"But, uh.. if you get drafted... er... good luck killing or being killed in a pointless immoral war."

[windansea]

33. He's not hiding his records?

I guess it was out of his hands when Dean stated he was sealing his records to prevent political opponents from using them against him.

hiding behind the lawsuit is transparently false

[Scott Lee]

31. TRIPLE POOP

[ipaul]

46. Raising taxes never works.

We should follow the exmple of the Gov. Gary Locke of the great state of Washington. He is cutting taxes in his state to promote growth for business. He is providing Boeing huge tax breaks so they can manufacture the Boeing 7E7 in his state. This will create thousands of new jobs and businesses in his state will flourish. Raising taxes halts growth and only leads to businesses sheltering profits and not investing them back into the econony. The tax cuts of 2001 are providing the economic growth we are experiencing now. Financial experts are projecting that next year's economy will be the best in 20 years. Good news for America :)

Cheers,

:)

[quinnox]

3. *Dean is Bush-lite in disguise

We need a clear contrast to defeat Bush, not stealth Bush-lite. Dean isn't good enough to be the nominee.

[Scott Lee]

32. Shall we have a contest to say how often we can repeat this fantasy?

You know, simply repeating something does not make it true. REally, it doesn't. Neither does the asterisk thing.

[in_cog_ni_to]

40. Oh, I like that!

That should be our new mantra! "DEAN IS BUSH-LITE"..:bounce:

[mitchtv]

41. try getting your candidate nominated

attacking Dems is pretty low. Doesn't do a thing for my opinion of Clark. I am undecided.:puke:

[TrueAmerican]

4. A major mistake if he is nominated

Rove would tear him apart. Eat him for lunch and crap him out.

[markus]

5. Hell, every governor has had to raise taxes to make up the shortfalls

How the hell do you think Clinton balanced the budget and Bush cut taxes.

Folks, in both cases, you're dealing with significant smoke and mirrors. And the buck stops at the local service providers.

[dajabr]

6. Vermont's Act 60

The Vermont legislature passed Act 60, The Equal Educational Opportunity Act, in June 1997, following a February state Supreme Court ruling in a class-action suit that Vermont's method of paying for education was inequitable and unconstitutional.

Under a system dating back to the 19th century, school funding in Vermont was provided by local property taxes. The wealthiest towns were spending nearly $ 12,000 per year on each K-12 student while enjoying a tax rate of 30 cents per $100 of the assessed value of a house (i.e., $300 per year on a $100, 000 house). Poorer towns spent only about $ 5,800 per pupil, while levying a tax of about $2,000 per year on a $100,000 home. Thus, towns with expensive homes and large businesses had the lowest tax rates, while rural towns with modest homes had to levy very high taxes to raise enough money to run their schools.

In restructuring its financing of schools, Vermont was following the lead of many other states. Since 1971, all but six states have been sued over educational equity and nineteen of these states have been ordered to restructure their financing systems.

Act 60 accomplishes its goal of educational equity by replacing dozens of widely varying local school tax rates with a single statewide property tax. All Vermont homeowners must now pay $1.10 per $100 of their assessed property value. ($1,100 on a $100,000 home.) About half of the state's communities will pay less in property taxes under Act 60, and half will pay more by the time Act 60 takes full effect in 2001, according to state officials. In addition, the gasoline tax was raised by 4 cents a gallon to fund education.

The revenues from the statewide property and gasoline taxes are distributed by the state as inflation-adjusted block grants to each school district, in the amount of $5,010 per student.

More: http://www.newrules.org/equity/act60.html

Raising taxes on the Wealthy? Heaven's no! We can't have that! :eyes:

[LuminousX]

8. It's funny how some people want Dean to live up to Republican standards

[bahrbearian]

9. Living in Washinton State

In 1997 I got to pay $600 for a $100,000 house.

[barbaraann]

7. Did property values double?

I would guess that's why taxes doubled.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

10. so easy for a Clarkie to attack Dean on tax policy

so easy, in fact, it's like a Deanie bragging about how Dean has NEVER, as Clark HAS, given an order to a British helicopter pilot to engage a Russian column that could have sparked world war III, were the order not disobeyed. The fact of the matter is Clark has no civilian executive experience in the government, and Dean has no experience in the military. In short, we are all in the same fight- shoulder to shoulder - and should thus band together and support both of them.

[mydawgmax]

21. And easy for Dean to say he would not have voted

for IWR if he were in the Senate and had a vote - which he wasn't and didn't.

[Jerseycoa]

26. What to your mind brings Clark into this? nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. Oh NO!! Citizens expected to pay for benefits!! Socialism!!

I wonder how much cutting the bloated military budget would pay for when it came to health care, education, welfare, etc.

[killbotfactory]

12. It's in print, it must be true

And this must be the last word on the subject.

I shall look no further into this matter. Dean = Bush!

Oh me, oh my, what will Rove think?

[maddezmom]

28. well did he say it or not? n/t

[dajabr]

13. Man, a lot of "good" Dems ripped Dean for tax fairness in this thread...

I wonder if they'll come back and apologize?

[waylon]

14. why the upside down flag?

and, while you are at it..... why do the military where flags backwards on their uniforms? Most times, the stars appear on the left, on military apparel, its reversed, anyone know why?

[paulk]

25. a ship flying it's national flag upside down is an internationally

accepted distress signal.

So displaying a flag upside down means "nation in distress".

[Bucky]

43. "internationally accepted distress signal"

So, uh, what do the Japanese do? Or the Brits? If the French did this, wouldn't people just assume it's from a different country? What a goofy rule.

[dave29]

15. A lot of "good" Dems

voted for Bush's Tax cut, ensuring the rise in those property taxes. A lot of "good" dems voted for a lot of things that are ruining our country, which is why, I would like my country back.

pretty please.

[killbotfactory]

19. Tax fairness = Bush lite

That's what Bush is all about....

[blm]

18. Funny. He also refused to add payroll tax for higher incomes.

That's such a Republican thing to do.

[AP]

24. Kevin Phillips in Wealth and Democracy says property taxes are very....

....regressive these days in the sense that the wealthiest segment of the population -- big, politically connected, wealthy businesses -- rarely pays property tax anymore. They're also not sensitive to your income wealth (only your property value wealth). So, these days, when you jack up property taxes, coupled with tax deals for "employers", you end up passing all that burden on to middle class people.


Incidentally, this story explains why Dean constantly pushes that faulty logic that lowering Fed revenues automatically means higher property taxes (property taxes, and every other state taxes are OPTIONS -- states can raise taxes any way they choose, or they can choose to run defecits). Dean wants people to think that Bush raised VT property taxes, when in fact, Dean did (even when Clinton was president).

[SahaleArm]

27. It's regressive when states have laws that limit increases...

and don't reassess property values yearly. Actually the federal tax code has deduction limits based on income - the more you make the less you can deduct. For the many Americans home-ownership is a distant thought. And now we have a front-runner who wants to increase marginal tax rate on the middle/lower class?

[AP]

34. It's crazy.

By the way, CA assesses value on date of sale.

Many low middle-income families who bought a 400K house last year pay much higher property taxes than multimillonaires and businesses who haven't sold their properties since the early 80s and who, when they do transfer "owernship" do it by forming subsidiaries which are jointly-owned corps, or through long leases.

[flpoljunkie]

35. CA example: Warren Buffett pays around $2,500 for $4million home!

This is outrageous--especially in a state with California's deficit problems. Warren Buffet agrees property taxes must be made more fair. Will Schwarzennger change this? Don't hold your breath!

[dsc]

37. Vermont inspects

I checked.

[frustrated_lefty]

29. I am so sick of this

crap being written by idiots and posted as yet another "gotcha!"

Dean overhauled Vermont's traditional system of paying for public schools with local property taxes, shifting funds from rich towns to poor towns through a "sharing pool," sparking an explosion in education spending,which has been up by 40% since 1997.

He was in favor of educational equity. And I am too.

Have it your way, Dean drinks the blood of babies and kicks puppies.

[dsc]

30. Mr. Snyed is a lying liar

there is no other word for this article. To ignore the effect of Act 60, and in particular to ignore the rebate added to act 60, is nothing short of lying.

http://www.state.vt.us/educ/new/html/laws/act60_fact_sheet.html

Income tax adjustments were created by Act 60 to help homestead owners pay their education property taxes. It was designed to work with the pre-existing renters rebate program. The tax adjustments come either in the form of a prebate check received by eligible taxpayers 30 days prior to their first tax bill, or in the form of an adjustment when income tax returns are completed by April 15th of the following year.

Two options are available for eligible homestead owners when calculating the amount of education tax owed to the State. The first option is a percentage of household income paid as the maximum education tax, with the percentage being determined by the level of spending per pupil in the taxpayer's school district. The second method is to take a fixed deduction on the taxpayer's homestead and then calculate the tax owed on the reduced property value. The taxpayer may choose to pay the lesser of the two amounts.

end of quote

Yes, the evil Dr. Dean in Act 60, and this act didn't appear out of thin air, actually cut taxes for the poor. It should also be noted that the reason Act 60 was passed wasn't to lower property taxes as a whole but to spread them out more equally. This, they appeared to do. To leave this out is lying. To state as he did that Act 60 failed in equity due to total taxes going up is lying.

It also bears noting that funding actually went up at the state level as even the author admits. The locals chose to increase them even more. I don't think that is Dean's fault.

[IndianaGreen]

36. All Governors had to raise taxes

to make up the cuts of federal money. My Democratic governor, as well as his predecessor had to deal with this issue.

Blame Congress for passing so many unfunded mandates to the states.

Blame the Beltway Democrats for their hypocricy.

[quaker bill]

38. As I recall it

Taxes on the wealthy communities went up to better fund schools in poorer areas. Apparently the program also included a large exemption for the poor.

Sounds rather progressive to me.

It was a bill from the legislature, right? I have understood the Vermont legislature to be rather progressive / liberal. How did this happen?

For the typical misinformed and shallow analysis, see post above.

[mzmolly]

39. That is my recollection too. Funny that Dems fear paying taxes these days

ey? :scared:

[madfloridian]

42. Bush is causing huge property tax raises.

His tax cuts are.

I would rather take a chance on Dean's ideas than Bush's.
http://www.bushtax.com/

[frustrated_lefty]

44. For education! (eom)

[Padraig18]

45. The legislature raises taxes, not the executive branch of government.

A little understanding of how government works is helpful, I've found...