Dean may support middle-class tax cut

[Killarney]

Boston Globe
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/01/07/dean_may_support_middle_class_tax_cut/

After months of touting his plan to repeal all of President Bush's tax cut, former Vermont governor Howard Dean is moving toward embracing a tax relief package for middle-income Americans, which would amount to a major revamping of a centerpiece of his Democratic presidential campaign.

Dean's action comes after his team of economic advisers privately gave him a "unanimous" recommendation to back a middle-income tax cut to offset the increases that would come with repealing Bush's plan, a top campaign official said...

I personally think it would be a smart move if he followed his advisers' advice. Especially if he is nominated. I personally don't think we can win the GE with a plan that raises taxes on the middle class. I think modifying his plan would be a really good move for him.

[papau]

1. Praise the Lord - without a self inflicted wound of taking $300 away,

from the middle class via repeal of the 10% bracket, the increase in the child credits, and the marriage penalty helper, he has a solid tax plan! Indeed stealing from Clark's plan makes a lot of sense.

[papau]

62. The numbers make a bad TV AD if he does not move on a middle Cl Tax cut

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/01/07/dean_may_support_middle_class_tax_cut/

Dean may support middle-class tax cut
By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff, 1/7/2004

Sylvester added. "All I am saying he is not an ideologue, he is pragmatic. I think the problem is, a family of four making $70,000 a year, their taxes would increase something like $2,300." According to the Labor-backed Citizens for Tax Justice, the Bush tax cut amounts to $2,015 in 2005 for a family with an income between $73,000 to $145,000. Thus, the Dean plan would effectively increase taxes on that family by $2,015 in the first year of a Dean presidency if he were elected and immediately repealed all the cuts.


In 2005, the Bush cuts are to save $971 for a family with an income between $45,000 to $73,000; $563 for a family with an income between $28,000 to $45,000; $371 for a family with an income between $16,000 to $28,000; and $77 for families earning less than $16,000. The wealthiest get the biggest windfall, with a family earning more than $337,000 saving $41,264.

Dean has contended that the Bush cuts don't significantly help most Americans. Speaking Monday in Charles City, Iowa, Dean pointed out that the Bush tax cuts save $112,000 for millionaires, but for 60 percent of Americans save an average of only $304.<snip>

[maddezmom]

2. just heard the same on CSPAN

[SahaleArm]

3. LOL - Gumby strikes again...

This has got to be eating him up inside...

[MIMStigator]

74. But Clark's indecisive eh?

eom

[retyred]

98. Gee where did this idea come from?

I never saw this coming, a flip-flop?


retyred in fla
“Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are”
So I read this book

[Jerseycoa]

101. I've been waiting for this for days now

:evilgrin:

Pathetic, really pathetic.

[deminflorida]

4. Is this anything like let a judge review my records and then I'll

release them maybe in the General Election....boy this guy takes the cake. My guess is the top official is Trippi again, I can't bring myself to think that Dean could be so stupid.

"A top Dean official said yesterday that the campaign has made a "strategic" decision for Dean to refrain during the primaries from revealing details of a proposal to trim middle-class taxes, preferring to announce it during the general election."

[papau]

6. ok - these folks are smarter than I am - I have never won a public

office.

but IMHO - getting the plan out front now would have been nice.

[Killarney]

9. I agree - for this to work he needs to release his plan now. n/t

[bhunt70]

7. sounds like they don't have one yet.

Or either its a snake oil sham.

[Cheswick2.0]

11. Clark still has a Democratic party Learners Permit

:smoke:

Even! :7

Standard disclaimer: I know that Clarks is a Democrat. He registered and everything.

[Clark Campaigner]

15. But Dean is the one who keeps getting in accidents

Clark may not have been driving for long, but he's got a perfect record.

[robbedvoter]

Wow! Dem party gives lerner permits? Cool! One day, I too may be the

likes of James Trafficant, Zell Miller, Ed Koch of Lyndon Larouche!
How long fo I have to be an aspiring learner to get to the hights HD is flying right now? Be all that he can be?
Silly me! I thought you only need certain ideals and acting on them to be a democrat. You guys showed me!

[The Backlash Cometh]

5. Could this be a sign of class warfare?

Republican's trickle-down effect always benefits the minority few at the top of the echelon and now, perhaps, the Democrats have recognized that the middle class needs to be fortified before it becomes extinct?

[Clark Campaigner]

8. I wouldn't be surprised

since Dean seems to change his positions and retract his previous statements on a daily basis.

By the time the primaries are over, his platform will be unrecognizable.

[bearfartinthewoods]

18. my sympathy meter for most of the dean supporters is way up.

how frustrating it must be. to get on board with such a diifficult position to defend, such as tax cut roll backs and then find the position changing.

i would be totally sympathetic except for the fact that it is their support of this chameleon that may put me in the same position. if dean gets the nomination we all better brush up on the art of making truly meaningless statements of support that don't lock us into any real positions whatsoever because we will never know which way the governer might flip next.

[maddezmom]

22. what about singles and married w/ no children

<<The question now, Dean advisers said, is exactly what form the tax relief proposal might take. It is most likely to be a targeted income-tax reduction for families with children, they said.>>>

[bearfartinthewoods]

50. if you are trying to defend against a pandering tax plan

of course you need to pander to the same crowd.

i want to be clear about something. i do not support further tax cuts until and unless the deficit is brought in line. i have no proiblem with undoing bush's tax cuts for the most part. my problem with dean's plan was that he made such a big fucking deal about it.

that wasn't necessary. the plan had no chance considering the pubbies hold the congress, so making it a hallmark of a campaign was needlessly suicidal.

clark's plan is just about what i'd expect from him...saying what the people want to hear without any basis in philosophy or reality.

[SahaleArm]

53. But you've kept your sig-line...

Even though it is not true - The ratio of federal income revenue/person disproves that. I don't see how Clark's deficit neutral tax-cut changes his general economic plan of balancing the budget and creating a long-term surplus.

[spooky3]

60. Looks as if he's been favorably impressed by Edwards' thinking

since Edwards has been arguing this position for some time.

[maddezmom]

94. true enough

:)

[Loonman]

10. Dean changed his mind again? This guy will say anything!

Holy crow, try some integrity, Howie. Pick a platform and stick to it.

What a rookie........

[mzmolly]

95. Dean "listening" to the people... All the humanities!!!!!

So sorry Dean just eliminated one "Dean = Mondale" talking point for you all. :nopity:

Dean may be a rookie, but he's having a break out year! Watch and learn.

[Renew Deal]

12. Does Dean stand for anything?

He's got more waffles than Eggo.

[Hep]

20. Prove it

Back it up. Where did he say he was against middle class tax relief?

We're Waiting.

[DemDogs]

23. This is a joke, right? Here's where he said it

He has consistently said he was for taking away all the middle class tax cuts from 2001 and he denigrated their value at $400, then he said $300 -- even though the bipartisan analysis was that a family of four (the usual way of talking about it) saved around $1800. Then, when he was asked in the IPTV Des Moines debate whether he had any relief in mind for middle class tax payers, he stammered and said that sometime in the future he would enact "tax fairness" -- Edwards correctly pointed out that he never gave a single example of tax relief for the middle class that he supported.

Now, when someone tells him it is politically expedient, he may be changing tunes. Dean has always been the ultimate chameleon politician. And this is just one more example.

Others: gay unions, NAFTA, ethanol, medicare, DLC, existence of weapons of mass destruction, even the IWR.

He is our least principled candidate. He cannot be our nominee.

[Hep]

33. Thanks for opening the door

Here's how you're wrong and later I'll tell you why it's funny.

As I've said all along, we don't need the framework of Bush's tax cuts to have sensible tax policy that treates the middle class fairly. Dean's still repealing Bush's tax cuts. He is just talking about making sure the middle class is covered from square one. It's exactly like I told ALL of the Dean opponents months ago.

Now is the part where you pretend it never happened.

[Renew Deal]

25. Here you go

"The first step in reversing this agenda, balancing the budget and putting the US fiscal house in order must be the repeal of the Bush tax cuts, and returning the tax code to rates that were in effect during the prosperous years of the Clinton-Gore administration."

http://beta.deanforamerica.com/site/cg/index.html?type=page&pagename=policy_statement_economy_taxreform

Do you think this will be a small eggo waffle, or a large Belgian waffle? I bet it will be large with whipped cream.

[kayleybeth]

32. LMAO!

I bet it will be large with whipped cream.

I actually feel sorry for them. Gotta be tough to have to backpeddle and defend a new position every time Dean does a 180.

[Hep]

35. It would be

if you could demonstrate it. Right now this is like showing first graders that there's not a monster in the closet.

[Hep]

34. And you prove my point as well

When you see "First step" it never occurs to you that there might be a "Second step"?

He's not talking about leaving Bush's tax cuts in place, he's talking about making sure there is a good middle class tax policy for after the cuts are repealed.

Don't make me go into my Bertrand Russell bag of tricks again.

[lastliberalintexas]

78. No they don't see a second step

Despite the fact that several Dean supporters here kept pointing the ENTIRE plan out to them, they continued to focus on ONLY the first step.

In the law it's called willful blindness. But I guess if it works to attack Dean...

[Hep]

79. Worse than willful blindness

It's waving the white flag to the RW.

[lastliberalintexas]

89. I agree

For several months now I've pointed out that elimination of the Shrub tax cuts and replacing them with more progressive tax rates should be argued by ALL of our candidates.

But too many around here seem to want to allow the RW to frame the debate and so we continue to play by their script. The biggest mistake that some of our candidates have made is to play into their hands, discuss the issues repubs think are important and discuss those issues in terms the repubs like to use. Otherwise, we'd already be beating Shrub by a landslide in the polls.

Hopefully whoever gets the nomination will understand that WE Dems need to start writing the final act on the Shrub presidency, rather than playing along with Rove's pre-arranged script. Unfortunately, I don't have much hope of that if the nominee isn't Dean, Kucinich, Braun or Sharpton.

[retyred]

100. My guess is:

large Belgian



retyred in fla
“Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are”
So I read this book

[DancingBear]

13. Me, too! - Me, too!

Dean changes (oh, excuse me, "re-evaluates") once again.

I'm shocked, I tell ya - absolutely shocked.

[kayleybeth]

19. I can't wait to see

how Dean's supporters spin this one.

[Hep]

84. And I'm still waiting

for a reasoned response froma Dean opponent.

Notice that's what it has come down to? Dean supporter versus Dean opponent? When I joined the Dean campaign I hadn't dreamed that it would go this well for us.

[Jerseycoa]

105. I'm convinced

They can spin anything. They've been in training for a year and practice regularly.

[Hep]

21. Prove it

Show me where he said he was against middle class tax relief.

We're waiting.

[DemDogs]

24. Since you asked twice

He has consistently said he was for taking away all the middle class tax cuts from 2001 and he denigrated their value at $400, then he said $300 -- even though the bipartisan analysis was that a family of four (the usual way of talking about it) saved around $1800. Then, when he was asked in the IPTV Des Moines debate whether he had any relief in mind for middle class tax payers, he stammered and said that sometime in the future he would enact "tax fairness" -- Edwards correctly pointed out that he never gave a single example of tax relief for the middle class that he supported.

Now, when someone tells him it is politically expedient, he may be changing tunes. Dean has always been the ultimate chameleon politician. And this is just one more example.

Others: gay unions, NAFTA, ethanol, medicare, DLC, existence of weapons of mass destruction, even the IWR.

He is our least principled candidate. He cannot be our nominee.

[Hep]

37. Bzzzt, wrong

And I showed you how. But it's OK, I can't fault people for not thinking clearly. It's just a learning curve.

[kayleybeth]

46. Ah, so he's been open to this all along then, huh?

Gotcha. Too bad he didn't let his supporters in on that little tidbit. Then maybe DU wouldn't have been weighed down the last couple of days with page after page of lectures on how middle class tax relief is nothing but "pandering" (at least when it's proposed by someone other than Dean).

[Hep]

48. Didn't let his supporters in?

I've been in on it since months and months ago, and so has every supporter I've talked to. Maybe you should think twice before claim to know more about Dean supporters than Dean supporters do, eh? I mean, if you care a shred about intellectual integrity, that is. If not, I understand. You would be a new member in a very large club here.

Middle class tax relief isn't pandering. Offering middle class tax relief JUST FOR PEOPLE WITH KIDS is pandering. Glad to have helped you learn the difference.

[kayleybeth]

54. Whatever you say, Hep

whatever you say...

[Hep]

56. I know

until I'm shown to be wrong, whatever I say is right.

[robbedvoter]

87. That's the ticket! A CYA referendum of supporters, like the CFR flip-flop!

You guys could all say that you like Clark's plan better and you can change the candidate or the platform...(cuz the VP thingy is out, you do know that, right?)

[RUexperienced]

14. MORE DOUBLESPEAK- Dean is not proposing a tax cut!

Dean's action comes after his team of economic advisers privately gave him a "unanimous" recommendation to back a middle-income tax cut to offset the increases that would come with repealing Bush's plan, a top campaign official said


So Dean is not proposing a tax cut. He is only offsetting the middle class tax increase he is proposing.

Up until now he has claimed that the middle class was not going to get a tax increase under his plan.

This guy is unbelievable!

[SahaleArm]

17. Wait till he's the *only* candidate to offer this n/t

[DancingBear]

28. LOL

:) :)

[robbedvoter]

43. The only MAJOR candidate who ALWAYS offered it - when no one else

did because it was unpopular. Ha!ha!
Seems only yesterday, LA Times was publishing this:

January 6, 2004
NASHUA, N.H.—Retired Gen. Wesley K. Clark on Monday unveiled the most sweeping tax-reform plan of any of the Democratic presidential hopefuls, a plan he said would dramatically simplify tax returns and benefit 31 million families without increasing the budget deficit.
Under Clark's proposal, a family of four making up to $50,000 a year would pay no federal income tax at all, and all families with children making up to $100,000 would see a reduction in their tax bill. The retired four-star general says he would offset the loss in tax revenue by asking millionaires to pay more.
His proposal is a decidedly liberal approach, as well as one that clearly sets him apart from the Democratic front-runner, Howard Dean, whose call for repealing all of President Bush's tax cuts has been attacked by rivals as hurtful to the middle class.
snip
At the end, summaries of tax plans of other candidates:
Howard Dean
Wants to abolish Bush's tax cuts. Hopes to end corporate tax loopholes and eliminate tax shelters. Would boost Internal Revenue Service resources to help the organization collect billions of dollars in back taxes."
Oh, wait! It was yesterday!

[Hep]

16. No one said he was closed to considering it

That's the whole point. Every Dean opponent here immediately fixated on his repeal of Bush's tax cuts without considering the fact that Dean would provide middle class tax relief as well. You stopped at step one without even thinking about step 2.

Not YOU, of course, you meaning people other than ME!

[SahaleArm]

26. I guess he'll be updating his tax site...

http://www.bushtax.com

The first step in reversing this agenda, balancing the budget and putting the US fiscal house in order must be the repeal of the Bush tax cuts, and returning the tax code to rates that were in effect during the prosperous years of the Clinton-Gore administration.

http://beta.deanforamerica.com/site/cg/index.html?type=page&pagename=policy_statement_economy_taxreform

[maddezmom]

27. where is his tax site?

www.deantax.com what is he going to do to my bottom line. I know what bush did.

[DancingBear]

29. try www.changeliketheseasons.com

:)

[AP]

31. Dean always says exactly what he thinks, or Trippi thinks, or polls show

he needs to think.

[Hep]

42. You can lead a DU horse to water, but you can't make them drink the truth

too bad for you guys. Why anyone would want to advertize their ignorance is beyond me, but flaunt what you got, I guess.

[retyred]

103. LOL

retyred in fla
“Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are”
So I read this book

[Hep]

38. What about "first step"

eludes you, exactly? Just wondering, you know, because usually after the first step comes a second one. I suppose maybe you didn't understand my earlier post at all. It's OK, I have all day to make things clear.

[SahaleArm]

49. Both of us know Dean's been adamant on raising the entire...

tax bracket to the point where he was denigrating the current middle and lower income tax credits as non-existant. He was pushing the idea that we are paying more in state taxes because of the federal deficit; and paying the higher federal income tax will be offset by lower state taxes. Spin it however you want but Dean's hardline attitude would have come back to bite him in the ass; so now he will evolve and repeal the repeal of middle-class tax cuts.

[Hep]

52. You didn't even answer the initial question

You move right on to "both of us know", which is funny because you haven't gotten past OUR step one yet.

It's amazing to me that you don't see the difference between repealing Bush's tax cuts for tax cuts of his own and not repealing Bush's tax cuts at all. It makes me wonder if you want to have a serious discussion about the issue or if your mind is so clouded with opposition to Dean that you can't actually concede a fact.

Let me know.

[SahaleArm]

55. What are you talking about? Trying to double-speak away...

Dean's change of heart?

It's amazing to me that you don't see the difference between repealing Bush's tax cuts for tax cuts of his own and not repealing Bush's tax cuts at all.

How is repealing the tax cuts followed by repealing the repeal (aka making cuts) different from repealing the top tax cuts and modifying the middle class tax structure? It's not.

[Hep]

57. Amazing, simply amazing

Something really simple comes along and those who are hell bent on opposing Dean give themselves full frontal lobotomies so that they don't have to risk understanding.

I've said it NUMEROUS times, and I know you've seen it. Dean's position has been that we don't need Bush's tax cuts to have sensible tax policy. That's it. COuldn't be simpler. But the opponents come out hitting themselves over the heads with baseball bats, acting like this is some great mystery.

The middle class tax cuts currently in place SUCK. They don't apply to everyone in the middle class, and they help very few. Getting rid of them and replacing them with policies that work is a service to all people in the middle class, but especially to those of us who got DINK from the cuts in the first place.

Why you would whine in support of any of Bush's tax cuts is a mystery to me.

[SahaleArm]

59. Spinning like a top...

The middle class tax cuts currently in place SUCK. They don't apply to everyone in the middle class, and they help very few. Getting rid of them and replacing them with policies that work is a service to all people in the middle class, but especially to those of us who got DINK from the cuts in the first place.

A married couple with no kids making $50k pays $1000 dollars less in 2003 than 2000. Your argument is a tough sell and even Dean knows it. Add in $1000 child tax-credits and it makes the 'repeal everything' policy an even tougher sell. Sure Dean left himself an opening on his policy page but this never showed up in his stumps or rhetoric until today. Let's just say I disagree with your opinion on how this will be perceived.

[Hep]

61. My argument is not a tough sell

but thanks for implying that you know more about my finances than I do. Pretty typical, really.

[SahaleArm]

63. I picked a nice round number that Shrub would have used...

I'm not implying anything about you or your income level.

[Hep]

64. You should think twice before admitting to using math that W would have

That's what got us into this mess.

[SahaleArm]

69. Well it's really Rove's numbers...

Shrub is still trying to figure out 'rithmatic ;)

[Hep]

70. LOL!

I knew it was rove.I planted a bug in his office,

[sandnsea]

30. More waffling - the guy will say anything

I expected it all along. He has absolutely no plan, no integrity, no spine, no nothing. His campaign is all Howard all the time. He doesn't care two-bits about this country, all he cares about is Howard.

[Boo Boo]

47. Bang!

Right between the eyes. Nice shot.

[in_cog_ni_to]

72. Man, I couldn't agree more!

This is really pathetic.

[Rowdyboy]

36. At least he's realized his position was intolerable now

rather than waiting until October. Pathetic as the middle class tax cuts have been thus far, to do away with them would be political suicide.

[Loonman]

39. New campaign image?

[incapsulated]

40. It's not a tax cut, it's a...

Reverse Repeal!

You people just don't understand...

;)

[maddezmom]

41. oh, thanks for clearing that up

;)

[robbedvoter]

44. Remember when you were ragging Drudge for the finding Jesus thingy?

(I love that you ragged him, but he wasreporting the truth then).
Remember when you were cheering HD on for attacking Clinton?
Remember when you were cheering him for proclaiming OBL innocent until proven guilty?
Remember when you were saying that no one should get tax cuts - Clark is pandering to the breeders, just like W?
This service was brought to you by Doublespeak-1984 inc

[chimpymustgo]

45. Finding Jesus. Adding a middle class tax cut. Medicare. Aff. Action,

Confederate flag, talking about race, opposing the war. Just to name a few.

Is this some form of insanity?

[Clark Campaigner]

51. Finding Jesus and the Confederate flag talk

has been a little hard to swallow.

[LiberalBushFan]

58. Uh oh, must defend quick!

They're mentioning Dean's tax raise on middle class! Well I think it's a GREAT idea! It has been shown that the majority of voters would be willing to pay more taxes in exchange for more services. So Dean's tax plan is the best and will win so shut up!!!

Oh what, he's not going to?! Ummm.. uhhh... yeah of course he's not going to raise taxes on the middle class! I think it's GREAT idea not to do it! Dean's a genius you know!

[LuminousX]

65. I'm on the record

as saying it was a weak position to take because the only way you get people to vote for you is to promise them money. Even though the tax cuts across the board are ruining this country, it is a bad policy position to take during an election to say you are going to correct a mistake that gave people money. People don't fucking care about the country as a whole, they only care that they got their fucking check in the mail and who cares if the homeless shelter in town that relied upon federal grants to keep going has to shut down and who cares if the federal assistance for re-education of laid off workers dries up?

It was a bad position. He is correcting that position to come more in line with what people expect. Give them fucking money and don't ask them to care about the future of this country.

[robbedvoter]

77. Glad you weren't one of the Clark=Bush, pandering to breeders

who flooded DU for the past 2 days. It was disconcerting, after having been called a jerk for wondering a while ago why would I want higher taxes. Clark wasn't increasing their taxes (unles we have DU millionaires), just gasp! giving breaks to others. The citizenry was astouding! The level of venom....
That's why I am here waitin to see thise same people arguing that coming from HD it's not pandering, lying, trickle down, being just like bush and all that.

[LuminousX]

83. Well it is pandering, pandering isn't always bad though

It is pandering when Clark does it, it is pandering when Dean does it.

Personally, I think it is irresponsible for anyone to offer any tax cuts. We are near a crisis situation with rising debt, unfunded mandates, crumbling infrastructure in the cities, and the need to build a security apparatus to protect people against terrorists.

But, as I said, it is a weak position to take to ask people to pay for stuff.

[bread_and_roses]

90. I absolutely do care

about the Homeless Shelter as well as other Public Services. I also care about inequality, and the increasing concentration of wealth at the very top. Tax policy should work against Oligarchy, which is why I oppose rescinding the tax relief on lower and middle incomes.

from The Nation
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040105&s=krugman

According to estimates by the economists Thomas Piketty and Emmanuel Saez--confirmed by data from the Congressional Budget Office--between 1973 and 2000 the average real income of the bottom 90 percent of American taxpayers actually fell by 7 percent. Meanwhile, the income of the top 1 percent rose by 148 percent, the income of the top 0.1 percent rose by 343 percent and the income of the top 0.01 percent rose 599 percent. (Those numbers exclude capital gains, so they're not an artifact of the stock-market bubble.) The distribution of income in the United States has gone right back to Gilded Age levels of inequality.

Look at wealth concentration and stock ownership:
http://www.inequality.org/factsfr.html

Since the mid-1970s, the most fortunate one percent of households have doubled their share of the national wealth. They now hold more wealth than the bottom 90 percent of the population. (NYU Economist Edward N. Wolf, Top Heavy)

In 1998, the top 1 percent of Americans owned 47.7 percent of all stock, while the bottom 80 percent owned 4.1 percent. Between 1989 and 1998, nearly 35 percent of all stock market gains went to the top 1 percent of shareholders. 64 percent of American households have stock holdings worth $5,000 or less, or own no stock at all. (NYU Economist Edward N. Wolff, cited by Economic Policy Institute, The State of Working America 2002-03, pp. 286-289)

I am vastly relieved to hear that Dean may be reconsidering his stance.

[Clark Can WIN]

66. Waffles anybody

Or are we all full yet?

[Hep]

67. You're a couple hours late, there, captain original!

:)

Bad enough to be wrong, but to be wrong AND slow? Ack! Not something I should think you would want to advertize!

[Clark Can WIN]

111. Bitterness is such an ugly emotion

but revel if you must. Your attempts at spin are at least persistent if wholly unconvincing.

Speaking of advertising, may I take this opportunity to advertise to you a new feature here on DU? We have a spell checker now. :hi:

[Hep]

113. Man I know it is!

And it's spread so thick in opposition to Dean. People are actually willing to sell out what used to be their ideas of morality and ethics just to oppose him. Can you believe it? They shut their brains off and cackle like witches! I find it very sad.

[Clark Can WIN]

114. I think you mistake personal bitterness for utter disdain for Dean

disdain:
Main Entry: 1dis·dain
Pronunciation: dis-'dAn
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English desdeyne, from Old French desdeign, from desdeignier
Date: 14th century
: a feeling of contempt for what is beneath one : SCORN

Bitterness:

[Hep]

115. Bitter AND judgmental

Those traits must be a real treat for the opposite sex.

I suppose his supporters are beneath you, too.

[in_cog_ni_to]

68. Gee, I wonder why he's changing his mind?

:eyes: Funny! A little transparent, don'tcha think? I hear~~~flip-flop, flip-flop, flip-flop, flip-flop, flip-flop...flippity-flop, flippity-flop, flippity-flop, flippity-flop.

This will make him look even worse than he already does. He's deciding this NOW? After how long? He's been traveling around the country telling EVERYONE he was going to repeal the entire Bush tax cut and NOW he's changed his mind? flip-flop....again.

[Hep]

71. Prove it ver. 3

Show me where he said he was against middle class tax relief.

I'm still waiting.

[LuminousX]

82. People hear what they want to hear

Dean has always said he would repeal Bush's disasterous tax cuts and then create real middle class tax relief.

I felt it was a weak position to take because everyone knows Congress messes everything up and that middle class tax cut may not come in a form people like, but at no point in time did Dean rule it out. I think he just realized he can't do it incrementally like he wanted.

[Hep]

85. Which is part of the process

but look at how these rabid dean opponents froth at the mouth over this? These people show off their lack of respect for us daily and then get mad when we say we won't get as jazzed for their candidate if he wins. I'll tell you right now, whether or not it's Dean, I don't want to stand side by side with any of these people.

[LuminousX]

91. I will stand side-by-side with them if their guy wins, but

I will be wearing my Dean buttons and campaigning for their guy as a Dean supporter.

"Hello, I'm a Dean supporter who would like you to encourage you to vote for Candidate X. I, like Howard Dean, feel it is imperative to remove Bush from office and to start laying the groundwork for Candidate X's pet issue. etc. etc."

[in_cog_ni_to]

86. You already know what he has said.

At least I'm assuming you do since you're a supporter of his. He has said he will repeal the entire Bush tax cut. "I" know it wasn't "really" a tax cut because they pay more elsewhere..like property taxes, state taxes, insurance, everything else costs more... However, the majority of the American people do not look at it in those terms. They see that $400 per child check come in the mail and think..."Alright! I love Bush, he gave me this wonderful tax refund and now I can pay my bills." Middle America does NOT look at the big picture. They see that IRS refund check and that's all they need to know.

It just another waffle by Dean. flip-flop, flip-flop, flip-flop.

This is embarrassing, actually. How many more issues can he waffle on?

[Hep]

107. And you know why it's wrong

What's embarassing is that you see my sig every time you read my posts and don't even know it's there for you.

[incapsulated]

88. OK - Howard Dean on Tax Reform

http://www.issues2000.org/2004/Howard_Dean_Tax_Reform.htm

Middle class received no benefit from Bush tax cut

I stood up against all the president's tax cuts. And I find it somewhat surprising that some folks are supporting some of the Bush tax cuts. They are a mistake. The middle class never got a tax cut for us to defend. Their college tuition went up. Their property taxes went up. Fire and police and first response services are going down and local people are having to pay for that. We ought to get rid of the entire Bush tax cut. It is bad for the economy and it has not created one job.

We are going to repeal the Bush tax cuts. You can't pay for health insurance if you have those tax cuts. Most middle-class people never got a tax cut from George Bush, and I'm sure they'd rather have health insurance for everybody than the $100 they got from George Bush's tax cut. For less than a third of George Bush's tax cuts, we can cover every man, woman and child in America, and that's exactly what we should do, and we should not wait.

Tell the truth on taxes: can't afford tax cuts

Q : Dean suggested he will roll back the increases in some middle-class tax benefits . You have suggested that anyone who walks away from the middle class is not a true Democrat.
KERRY: We Democrats fought hard to put those tax cuts in place. Those represent trying to reach the middle class of America. I think Governor Dean is absolutely wrong. And he's wrong on his facts. The fact is that 32 million American couples get about $1,000 out of the tax cut. The fact is that 16 million American families get $1,500 to $3,000 from it.

DEAN: With all due respect to Senator Kerry that voted for these tax cuts, this is exactly why the budget is so far out of balance. The fact of the matter is that 60% of Americans at the bottom got $325. That is not a tax cut. Tell the truth: We cannot afford all of the tax cuts, , and balancing the budget. Let's call this one right. Let's be fiscally responsible and balance the budget.

[Hep]

108. Some piss poor interpretation going on

These tax cuts. Not tax cuts in general. Some folks here have the same problem with "anti Bush's tax cuts" that they have with "Anti Bush's war".

Shameful

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

92. Dean unveiled tax plan on October 16, 2003.

Here's the press release:



Press Release

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

October 16, 2003
Contact: Press Office, 802-651-3200
Governor Dean Unveils Economic Plan

WASHINGTON—Democratic presidential candidate Governor Howard Dean, M.D., unveiled his economic program today, condemning the “Enron Economics” of the Bush administration, and promising that, as president, he would “reclaim the American dream” for working families.
Speaking to students and faculty at Georgetown University, Governor Dean spoke out against the growing influence of corporate and special interests in the political process.

“When the balance of power in Washington shifts and private interests trump the common good American capitalism has been betrayed. Over the last 30 years, we have allowed multinational corporations and other special interests to use our nation’s government to undermine our nation’s promise. They have bought access to power with their campaign contributions and their lobbyists. And they’ve used that access to ensure that the laws--and most importantly the tax code--benefit them,” Governor Dean said.

“The Bush presidency is the realization of our founding fathers’ fear – that one day economic power would seize political power. Enron epitomizes this fear, corporate power run amok. The executives at Enron misled the public and their employees to line their pockets with millions of dollars while employees lost their jobs, lost their health insurance and lost their pensions,” Dean said. “President Bush has brought the Enron model from Texas to Washington. He’s implemented an economic plan for the country with reckless tax cuts based on false economic assumptions that benefit the wealthiest in our society at the expense of ordinary working Americans. The President’s economics are Enron economics.”

The Dean economic program consists of:

JOB CREATION: A short-term stimulus to create 1 million new jobs through a $100 billion Fund to Restore America that will help states and local governments create jobs in health, education, and homeland security, as well as build or restore schools, roads and other infrastructure.

FISCAL DISCIPLINE: Repeal all the president’s tax cuts, pay for new programs without increasing the deficit, and a pledge to balance the budget.

HELP FOR SMALL BUSINESS: A new Small Business Capital Corporation to expand the secondary market for small business loans and make capital for these job creators available more easily and at a lower cost.

TAX FAIRNESS: An aggressive effort to clean up the tax code, end corporate welfare, close tax loopholes, enhance enforcement against tax cheats and to shift the burden of taxation back toward corporations giving fairer treatment to individual taxpayers.

TAX SIMPLIFICATION: A commitment to tax simplification so that at least half of American taxpayers will no longer have to fill out forms.

BETTER DEAL FOR WORKING FAMILIES: Addressing working families' anxieties about making ends meet with a higher minimum wage, universal health care, greater assistance with early education and care and college for their kids and a secure retirement.
Governor Dean explained that recovering from the Bush administration’s reckless policies—that have cost 3.1 million jobs and turned a $3.1 trillion surplus into a $3.8 trillion deficit—will be difficult.
“The effect of this president's policies is to saddle a family of four with $52,000 in national debt over the next six years alone. And let’s be clear what American middle class families actually received. In 2003, 60 percent of Americans will get an average of $307; the top one percent of all households received an average of over $26,000,” Governor Dean said.

“What George Bush is basically doing is borrowing $1000 in your name and handing you $250 of it. That is why I say, unlike some of my rivals, we need to repeal all of the president’s tax cuts. These tax cuts weren’t written for the majority of America. These tax cuts weren’t written to return economic power back to the people. These tax cuts, like Enron’s finances, are a scheme to make the rich richer, to starve Social Security and Medicare and to put our nation’s financial strength at risk by creating the largest debt in history.”

“We’ll have to be honest with the American people that it’s going to take years and some sacrifice to dig out,” Dean said. “I pledge to the American people that a Dean administration in Washington will do what the Dean administration did in Vermont: we will balance the budget.”

http://www.smallbusinessfordean.com/release2.shtml





Step One

Repeal Bush tax cut


Step Two

Reform the tax code and shift tax burden


Step Three

Higher minimum wage, universal health care, greater assistance with early education and care and college for their kids and a secure retirement.




Where are the waffles?

[Hep]

109. As usual, CRICKETS.

Thanks

[Hep]

110. As usual, CRICKETS.

Thanks

[incapsulated]

116. Oh, please, get a grip

There are answers below you, above you and all the fuck around you but you find one ignored post and it's "crickets"? Only in your head.

[Hep]

117. Still waiting

Haven't seenan argument worth a damn yet, but then, the bar is set differently for some than for others.

[paulk]

80. he's changing his mind

because Kerry is hammering him with this in Iowa.

[creativelcro]

73. I don't care what he does with the middle class cut

But I feel strongly that the marriage penalty should not be reinstated. That part is simply unfair. It taxes many married couples more than if those people were single making the same total income. If they want it that way they have to call it explicitely "marriage tax", and live with the consequences of going for that (i.e., hard to reconcile with the "family" value messages).

[MIMStigator]

75. Dean's indecisive

eom

[Hep]

76. Open minded, undecided, tomato tomahto.

Big surprise. An avid Dean opponent comes out in opposition to Dean. Shocking.

[robbedvoter]

81. Just following up on his strategy to attack Clark. Waiting on that debate,

The gauntlet had been thrown by the Clark campaign. Tell your guy, we're ready to debate the subject. As soon as he finishes copying Clark's tax program. Tell him to juggle the numbers around a bit. When he lifted the jobs program, he left the same numbers - teachers pick on these things. ;-)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

93. Post #92

nt

[killbotfactory]

96. He never ruled out tax cuts, he wanted to start over

But of course, that doesn't stop people attacking him for trying to raise taxes...

And then turn around and attack him for "flip-flopping"...

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't...

[incapsulated]

97. He never ruled out tax cuts???

God, shoot me now! I can't stand another round of "let's play short-term memory for Dean!"


:crazy:

[killbotfactory]

102. See Post #92

Tax reform.

[incapsulated]

106. He is going with a TAX CUT for the middle class

Not the long-term "tax reform" plan that always had a total repeal of the Bush tax cuts!

THEN:

"I stood up against all the president's tax cuts. And I find it somewhat surprising that some folks are supporting some of the Bush tax cuts. They are a mistake. The middle class never got a tax cut for us to defend. Their college tuition went up. Their property taxes went up. Fire and police and first response services are going down and local people are having to pay for that. We ought to get rid of the entire Bush tax cut. It is bad for the economy and it has not created one job."

"We are going to repeal the Bush tax cuts. You can't pay for health insurance if you have those tax cuts. Most middle-class people never got a tax cut from George Bush, and I'm sure they'd rather have health insurance for everybody than the $100 they got from George Bush's tax cut. For less than a third of George Bush's tax cuts, we can cover every man, woman and child in America, and that's exactly what we should do, and we should not wait."

NOW:

"The question now, Dean advisers said, is exactly what form the tax relief proposal might take. It is most likely to be a targeted income-tax reduction for families with children, they said."

"None of the advisers suggested Dean would be able to restore all of the Bush tax cuts for the middle class, noting that Dean needs funds to cut the deficit and pay for his health care plan. But most of the advisers interviewed for this story said they would advocate some kind of middle-income tax relief package."

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

120. Were Chimp's tax cuts for the middle class or not?

Let's start there.

[madfloridian]

99. This is called pragmatism and listening to the people.

This is what he does. I said yesterday he would be practical.

[adamrsilva]

104. All because people are too stupid to understand he was right.

Now they are just going to say "Well, that Howard Dean flip-flopped again." Thanks, Dems.

[w4rma]

112. "through tax reform, put money in the hands of those most likely to spend"

I will begin by repealing the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts.

BY HOWARD DEAN
Friday, August 22, 2003 12:01 a.m. EDT

The economy is going through tough times. The average American family is in trouble. The economy has been losing good jobs, and the benefits that went with them, at an astonishing rate.

It doesn't have to be this way. Our economy has proved its resilience time and again. The skills and productivity of the American worker are the envy of the world. When we have had clear direction and effective leadership, we have created millions of jobs, raised the incomes of all Americans and diminished the gap between rich and poor.

But over the past two and a half years, the number of unemployed Americans has gone from under 6 million to over 9 million. Worse, the number of long-term unemployed--those who have been looking for a job for more than 6 months--has tripled to almost two million workers. These numbers are part of a larger story. The promise of America has been based on the understanding that hard work would pay off in a better job and a brighter future for the next generation. We need to restore that promise. Millions are unemployed, and millions more are underemployed in dead-end jobs. Wages are stagnant. Job security is disappearing.

One out of four U.S. workers is free-lancing, employed in a temporary job, self-employed or working part-time. Studies show that workers who lose manufacturing jobs take an average 13% pay cut in their next employment.

When companies cut back on health-care benefits and guaranteed pensions, workers are hit hard. Studies by scholars, including Karen Kornbluh of the New America Foundation, show that families compensate by running harder, and that stress can become unbearable. There are elderly parents to care for, children to educate, and the need to save for a secure retirement. Married couples now work 10 weeks longer each year than they did in 1968, and live with an accumulation of debt that threatens financial disaster.

As Elizabeth Warren and Amelia Tyagi point out in their forthcoming book "The Two Income Trap," today's two-income families earn 75% more money than their single-income counterparts did a generation ago, but they actually have less money to spend. For many, personal bankruptcies have become the rule rather than the exception. This year more children will live through their parents' bankruptcy than through their parents' divorce.

In about 500 days, the next president will take office. There will be an inaugural address, full of talk of promises and hopes. Let us hope the next inaugural speech holds up better in the perspective of history than the last one.

Promising a "compassionate" administration, President Bush pledged to "recover the momentum of our economy," "reward the effort and enterprise of working Americans" and confront economic problems now, "instead of passing them on to future generations." Instead, he's offered tax cuts that don't address our needs, and saddled our children with debt for generations to come. On this president's watch, the federal debt has grown by over $1 trillion. That's the rough equivalent of putting $3,500 on the charge card of every American.

How did our nation come to this place? The answer is simple--the economic policies of this administration are aimed at ideological goals, not help for the average American.


We can do better. As president, my economic policies will be focused and clear. I will begin by repealing the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, and using the revenues that result from the repeal to address the needs of the average American, invest in the nation's infrastructure and, through tax reform, put money in the hands of those most likely to spend it.

The task of meeting the needs of American families begins with health care. My plan will not only insure millions of Americans who are without adequate care today, it will reduce costs for small business, states and communities--freeing up funds that can be used to grow businesses and meet other national and local priorities.

An important part of my program for a full-employment recovery will be extending a helping hand to states and communities. My policies as governor kept Vermont strong fiscally; but all over America, the financial resources of other states and cities are strained to the limit. Teachers are being laid off, highways lack repairs, firehouses are closed. Instead of tax cuts that have not created jobs, we need to make investments in America. I will increase federal aid for special education, and provide more temporary help to the states--for homeland security and school construction and infrastructure modernization. And I will increase the availability of capital for small businesses, so that they can invest in new technology and create more jobs.

No program for economic recovery and growth can ignore the tax system, particularly the bizarre collection of tax expenditures, preferences, credits and deductions which has directed revenues away from the federal treasury and into uneconomic tax avoidance schemes. Average Americans pay their taxes through withholding or quarterly estimates. Meanwhile, corporations and multinational enterprises take advantage of elaborate tax shelters, and billions go uncollected. The need for reform is obvious and compelling, and I will give tax reform a top priority in my administration. But unlike the tax initiatives of the current president, my program of tax reform and relief will be targeted to the average Americans who are struggling to make ends meet--not those whose needs are well provided for.


Finally, maintaining fiscal discipline is essential to long-term growth; discretionary spending must be sustainable, and the federal budget must be balanced over the business cycle.

I balanced every budget during my 11 years as governor, despite the fact that Vermont is the only state with a constitution that doesn't require a balanced budget. To keep spending in line, I will not be afraid to use the veto--a power President Bush has yet to exercise.

Some of these measures will be unpopular, and many will be opposed by the special interests. But the next president must take swift and decisive action to restore the economic well being of our nation's families. They need meaningful jobs at good wages. They need the security of health insurance--no matter how old or young they may be, and without regard to their economic status. They have the right to educate their children to the limits of their abilities, not the limit of their pocketbooks, and to look forward to a secure retirement. In short, they expect a better deal, and deserve no less.

Dr. Dean, former governor of Vermont, is seeking the Democratic Party nomination for the 2004 presidential elections.


http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110003920

[silver]

118. Once again, Dean flip-flops

It will once again illustrate why I have no respect for Howard Dean and what he stands for. He's had the REAL data from the Brookings Institution in front of him for months---as the pressure mounts, he's caving in.

To all those who believes Dean will stand up for progressive values, THINK AGAIN.

[killbotfactory]

119. look at the post above yours

Tax Reform has always been in the cards.