N.H. voters eyeing two non-Deans

[Karmadillo]

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/01/07/nh_voters_eyeing_two_non_deans/

N.H. voters eyeing two non-Deans
By Scot Lehigh, 1/7/2004
NASHUA, N.H.

A SENSE of skittishness about Howard Dean is beginning to stir in New Hampshire. Whether that doubt freshens to a gaffe-driven gust or is merely an evanescent breeze of unease remains to be seen, but creeping disquiet about Dean came up often in conversations with more than three-dozen voters on Friday and Monday.

Indeed, those misgivings were a regular reason voters who had been leaning toward Dean cited for coming to campaign events to evaluate US Senator John Kerry and retired General Wesley Clark.

Some thought Dean has proved too prone to shoot from the lip. Others worry he has too short a fuse. A few specimens of that rarest of political species -- strategic Democrats -- have become convinced he just couldn't beat George W. Bush.

To be sure, the misgivings don't appear strong enough to deprive the former Vermont governor of a Granite State win. But they do raise the prospect of a strong second-place finish for another candidate.

more...

[blm]

1. Scott Lehigh is a major Bushwhore. Nothing he says

would move me. I always look beyond his words to his motivation for his words and how they are meant to be played to help the Rove team.

In my view, they feel comfortable Dean has the numbers but, they want to keep the Dem party, itself, divided. I always thought that was their intent when they first pegged Dean as a "loose cannon" early last year and Tom DeLay said back then they'd promote Dean to move all the candidates and Dem party further left so they can alienate the center.

They are master manipulators of the media.

[molly]

2. Uh-OH

The only awkward moment for Dean came when Katheleen Belgard, a 17-year-old Concord High School student and Kerry supporter, asked how he could portray himself as so clearly antiwar when he had supported an alternative congressional resolution (known as Biden-Lugar) that would have given the president authority to wage war against Iraq after securing a UN Security Council resolution requiring disarmament or, failing that, upon his declaration that Iraq constituted a grave threat.

Dean replied that he had initially supported Biden-Lugar because "I think the president deserves the presumption of right on his side in foreign policy. I wanted to give this president as much leeway as we could." (Imagine what Dean would say if John Kerry or Dick Gephardt had made that statement.) But Dean also noted that he had made a speech on Sept. 21, 2002, setting out his opposition to the war. However, Dean was still expressing support for Biden-Lugar in early October; at about that time, the authors of the resolution decided not to press forward with it.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/01/07/nh_voters_eyeing_two_non_deans/

[AP]

3. Dean is going to have a credibility problem if he gets nominated.

[blm]

19. I always said he can be proven a liar with Biden-Lugar.

You can't complain that the others gave Bush the authority to use force that you, too, supported AT THAT SAME TIME.

The media never held him accountable for his disingenuous attacks. Only a few have noted it in recent months.

The cable news shows have stayed away from it completely, and still call him a "staunch antiwar candidate"...what a pile of hooey has been sold to the American people.

Rove will take all of his conflicting remarks on Iraq and put them in a nice ad. I hope Dean supporters get used to cringing.

[Scott Lee]

21. And you are still wrong.

Because that meme won't fly anymore.

Frankly, that meme is

[blm]

34. Then why does Dean address that "pile of crap"

and say he wanted to give the president what he needed? Or didn't you read the article?

Dean replied that he had initially supported Biden-Lugar because "I think the president deserves the presumption of right on his side in foreign policy. I wanted to give this president as much leeway as we could." (Imagine what Dean would say if John Kerry or Dick Gephardt had made that statement.) But Dean also noted that he had made a speech on Sept. 21, 2002, setting out his opposition to the war. However, Dean was still expressing support for Biden-Lugar in early October; at about that time, the authors of the resolution decided not to press forward with it.
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/01/07/nh_voters_eyeing_two_non_deans/

[Lefta Dissenter]

4. Hmmmmm, it takes a 17-year-old to pin him down...

The only awkward moment for Dean came when Katheleen Belgard, a 17-year-old Concord High School student and Kerry supporter, asked how he could portray himself as so clearly antiwar when he had supported an alternative congressional resolution (known as Biden-Lugar) that would have given the president authority to wage war against Iraq after securing a UN Security Council resolution requiring disarmament or, failing that, upon his declaration that Iraq constituted a grave threat.

Dean replied that he had initially supported Biden-Lugar because "I think the president deserves the presumption of right on his side in foreign policy. I wanted to give this president as much leeway as we could." (Imagine what Dean would say if John Kerry or Dick Gephardt had made that statement.) But Dean also noted that he had made a speech on Sept. 21, 2002, setting out his opposition to the war. However, Dean was still expressing support for Biden-Lugar in early October; at about that time, the authors of the resolution decided not to press forward with it.

One can only encourage NH voters to get out there and see Clark and Kerry. Listen to what they have to say, and decide who not only voices your anger with the current administration, but also lays out the most positive, specific plan for our country. It's not JUST about winning the election, it's about making our country the best that it can be.

edit: Dammit Molly, I've GOT to learn to think faster and type faster! :)

[Larkspur]

5. I saw Clark on C-Span and had to struggle to stay awake listening to him

droll on and on. He even got some of his own supporters to yawn. Clark's has the zombie-like aura that suits a champion of the military industrial complex.

Dean has the passion, executive governing experience, and the vision to make this country a better place.

[SahaleArm]

7. You have the power is visionary? Tony Robbins for president n/t

[dave29]

12. It's what he says after that

that's important. You should listen to the rest of his sentences.

So much parsing going on ;)

[Scott Lee]

22. At least Howard doesn't work like a sleeping pill

Wesley Clark is great for those long insomniac nights, though.

[SahaleArm]

40. Dean is like an alarm clock with a broken snooze button n/t

[creativelcro]

9. Zombie-like... Well put. Good metaphor too...

[Meritaten1]

16. Clark is a dynamic speaker

I've listened to him on C-SPAN several times-- he's very articulate, and an effective speaker. What C-SPAN speech did you watch?

Also, it's not correct IMHO to describe General Clark as "a champion of the military industrial complex." That would be the Bush administration and its corporate cronies.

The fact that General Clark can speak with authority on military issues is a big plus for Democrats this year, since Republicans are attempting to portray themselves as the party of national security. (E.g. witness President Bush's 2.5 hour Thanksgiving trip to Iraq with a plastic turkey).

If you read his policy positions you will see that General Clark is not owned by special interests. He wants to implement a more progressive tax structure, allow seniors to buy cheaper prescription drugs from Canada and compel companies to adhere to environmental standards. They are posted at http://www.clark04.com

[Scott Lee]

23. He reminds me of Lurch on "The Addams Family"

Except Lurch was a little more engaging.

[BurtWorm]

35. He may be effective as a talking head, but face it

that's not the same as being effective as a stump speaker. They're too different skills. Give him time, though and he'll learn. He's inexperienced. He just needs a lot of practice.

[sandnsea]

6. Send a President - Clark or Kerry

Either one would do amazing things for this country and the world. I'm really starting to get some hope again. Feels pretty darn good!!

[SahaleArm]

8. How about that as a ticket?

Clark/Kerry or Kerry/Clark would be a winner.

[Democrats unite]

10. Amen to that!

eom

[BeyondGeography]

14. Totally on board

These two are emerging as the most compatible candidates in the field. They both shore each other up. The anti-Vietnam veteran who rejected the military and built himself into a liberal champion (Bush-Lite crapola from the Dean camp notwithstanding) and the anti-Iraq general who stuck with it and can rein in the Pentagon and tear PNAC to pieces.

That's a ticket I could be very proud of.

[LiberalEconomist]

11. Lay off of Dean

Ok, I do NOT believe that the good doctor is the best candidate for President in the field. However, say what you want, but Howard Kick-you-in-the-ass Dean IS the spirit of the Democratic Party. Dr. Dean is our William Wallace. He killed the timidness in the Dem party hierarchy and took it to the enemy. Dean ought not be President, however, because I believe he is not really cut out for that crap. Howard the Great ought to become the Democratic Party Chair.

[BeyondGeography]

15. That's fair

eom

[NewYorkerfromMass]

29. If you believe Dean ought not be President then laying on him is good

that's the whole point. Lay it on him and let the chips fall where they may. This muzzle job being reported in the Times today just indicates the heat needs to be turned up.

[blm]

43. Exactly. He's been coasting for TOO long with little scrutiny.

Just like Bush in 2000.

Well, the little punk isn't going to ruin the Democratic party for me.

[maddezmom]

17. great ticket

my number 1 and number 2!!

[molly]

20. Well, you know what they say about great minds!

:pals:

[in_cog_ni_to]

25. hehe

He probably called on her thinking it would be some silly little softball question about his underwear or computer(PC or Mac) and SMACK! She did the job of the journalists!

Thank You young lady! Whoever you are!

[blm]

28. The press pretty much gave Dean a big pass on his antiwar lie.

Yet a 17 year old saw through it.

He'll get hammered when they use it against him in the general which is probably why they held back holding him accountable for his deception for the primary.

[xultar]

13. I support both Clark and Kerry so I'm good! n/t

[moz4prez]

18. Scot Kneehigh is a no-talent hack

"A GAFFE-DRIVEN GUST?
OR MERELY AN EVANESCENT BREEZE OF UNEASE?"

this guy TOTALLY deserves to die

[windansea]

24. Dr Dean,,,a PHD in gaffeology

:evilgrin:

[TorchTheWitch]

26. whoa

being a "no-talent hack" is deserving of death? :scared:

[A-Schwarzenegger]

27. Non-Dean, Non-Dean, Non-Dean, Non-Dean...

[NewYorkerfromMass]

30. I'd say the Kerry-Clark one, two military punch

is finally taking its toll in the granite state.

[Capn Sunshine]

31. TOO bad "the military" is an untenable position

Nobdy wants to associate themselves with the child eating machine that is currently grinding bones daily of our enlisted kids in Iraq. That is going to be pretty damn toxic in another six months, and association with the military is not gonna get you any bonus points. except with post traumatic east coasters who think the terrorist "war" is anything but a dodge

[NewYorkerfromMass]

32. The Dept. of DEFENSE puts food on the table for a lot of families

who have enlisted members, in addition to DEFENDING you, me and the rest of the country. But thanks anyway for perpetuating the stereotype of Democrats as pacifistic military haters for the lurkers out there.

[blm]

37. Good thing Kerry is called the Tough Dove.

He has helped to end 3 wars in the world.

[indigo32]

33. I'm not buying it

he's still leading in NH...I'm going to Iowa this weekend to campaign.
I listened to a local call in yesterday. MN is definitely DEAN country. I think ya'll are predicting his demise WAY TO SOON.

[Desertrose]

36. All these "reports" remind me of my cat chasing rainbows....

always another one moving to catch his eye and keep him guessing....

Best we can do is focus on the positive things- large or small - that WE can do to get our candidate elected....

:shrug:

Peace
DR

[blm]

38. But, you have to admit, DR...

The 17 yo girl pointing out Dean's real record on Iraq was some salve to those of us who knew Dean was NOT the antiwar candidate he pretended to be.

[Desertrose]

41. well....ok blm...I'll admit it

if you twist my arm...
ooh oww...
:evilgrin:

Peace
DR

[blm]

42. Heh....

You can have your arm back. Dennis needs it.

[jpgpenn]

39. Thanks

for the post