Let's boot the US military AND bushCartel...

[LynnTheDem]

Army Set to Injure Goats for Training

A planned training exercise at Fort Carson has drawn fire from animal welfare groups because it involves soldiers injuring an undisclosed number of goats. Later this month, medics from the 10th Special Forces Group will learn battlefield medical techniques at the post by treating the goats, which will be sedated and then injured to simulate combat wounds, the Army confirmed Tuesday.

The Army is unapologetic about the nature of the training, saying the goats will be sacrificed to save the lives of soldiers fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The informant said plans call for pushing at least one goat off a cliff, Stephens said. Abel declined to provide details of how the goats will be injured. After the animals are treated by Army medics, they are killed and cremated.

Stephens, a biologist, said there are better ways to learn battlefield medicine. He said the goats could be spared if the Army went hightech, using electronic simulations to replace the animal training.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0908-04.htm

[LuminousX]

1. I gotta say

battlefield medics need to learn somehow... high tech is costly and I am unsure of this Stephens person's credentials and ability to make the determination that using goats isn't the most cost effective way to teach battlefield medicine.

[LynnTheDem]

3. Expensive???

bush US defense budget 2005; $400 billion.

[bob reynolds]

2. saving one soldier's life would be worth

quite a few goats. And it does say the goats will be sedated. If they're 'unconscious' they would not experience much if any pain...same basic issue as medical testing on animals

[sandnsea]

5. Oh please

You want your bones set by a doctor who was "trained" by dropping goats off the top of the hospital? I don't. This is nonsense. I just can't believe what people will buy into.

[bob reynolds]

6. your doctor trained on a cadaver probably

and the training would be setting the bone, not breaking it

[sandnsea]

4. Pushing goats off cliffs?

Okay, I'm not anywhere near what you'd call an animal rights activist. I strongly believe in using animals for important medical testing... important testing. But pushing a goat off a cliff is going to help, how? This is just wrong. But this is also where we run into problems. It would be better to know the technological methods that can be used and show that they're superior first, then show how we're intentionally injuring goats because we're too cheap to do it right. Better to make the Army look like backwoods voodoo doctors on this than lead with the bleeding heart stuff. We'd get further.

[Cravat]

7. Goat Lab

What you are describing is one of the graduation exercises of the 18D training course. I would not go to war without an 18D. They are, without a doubt, the best trained trauma medics around.

Is the course bloody? Yes it is. Is it effective? Yes it is.

The instructors wade in like butchers. Your goat is restrained and out of your sight. The instructors shoot, stab, beat, and break your goat. You must then triage and stabilize your goat. If you are successful and your goat survives then it is on to round two. All the goats die. But the American military needs men with the ability to rapidly asses and treat combat injuries.

Battlefields do not produce scraped knees. Battlefields produce crushed bodies. If killing a few goats will save a few lives then kill away.

[TX-RAT]

8. Actually, this has been done for years.

During early nuclear experiments a wide variety of animals were caged or staked down in the effected areas.
Col. Askins was involved in the testing of firearm . This included shooting pigs, sheep, mules, from various ranges and angles.