Dumb question: did Clark and Dean have a falling out?

[absyntheNsugar]

I just read that at one point Dean had tried to recruit Clark as his VP (personally I would love to see that combination - it would be an unbeatable ticket) but that it led to Dean making a statement that got taken out of context by the media (of course).

But is there any kind of falling out between the two? I understand no one here knows the two personally - but I'm really hoping this isn't true.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

1. Clark Was Quite Steamed About Several Things Dean Did/Said

Shortly after Clark entered the race. The VP leak thing was one. Dean distorting Clark's record on the war was another. Dean falsely stating that "Clark was a Republican until 25 days ago" was the third.

DTH

[Rose Siding]

8. Do you have a link about the VP leak coming from

Dean or his campaign? I seem to remember confirmation that the two had spoken a number of times, but the VP position being the topic was the reporters speculation in the pieces I read.

[Bucky]

20. Read back issues of Josh Marshall's TPM for verification

hang on, I'll look up the citation.

[Bucky]

25. "Wow. That was fast, Bucky" "Glad to help, Bucky". "I'm a big fan, Bucky"

OK, here's the links from Josh Marshall's TPM:

On September 11th Josh wondered was "the Dean camp trying to set up Wes Clark?" He first wrote this:

Is the Dean camp trying to set up Wes Clark? (Yep, I'm talkin' about you, Joe!) This piece in today's Post says Dean and Clark "discussed the vice presidency at a weekend meeting in California." Read down into the article and there doesn't seem to be that much there there...

And now the story of the day is not those very active discussions Clark is having about his own presidential run, but the potential 'Dean/Clark alliance'. And if Clark decides to get into the race after all, doesn't that mean that he wobbled, that as recently as this week he was thinking of taking the number two slot from Dean, or endorsing Dean? (His opponents want to play to the 'indecision' meme, remember.) I think that's what some people would like us to think. The Post calls those people "sources familiar with the discussions." But I think we can imagine who those folks might be.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2003_09_07.html#001941


Then he wrote & cited this:

Aha! More news about Dean Campaign Manager Joe Trippi's 'he's-begging-to-be-our-VP' dirty tricks campaign against Wes Clark. This from the just-posted edition of USNews' Washington Whispers ...

"And forget about that talk that all the retired four-star general and former NATO boss wants is the veep nomination. Supporters say that's a dirty-tricks campaign pushed by rival Howard Dean who's scared of a Clark candidacy. Says Frisby: "Wes Clark firmly believes that he is the best choice to be president, not be vice president or hold any other government post."

Leave it to TPM to bring you the scoop first.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2003_09_07.html#001940

[Rose Siding]

30. That doesn't confirm anything!

the sources are CLARK supporters. What, did Trippi confide in them? That's called a rumor. Even Marshall, as he tries to spread the rumor, says of the first article, "there doesn't seem to be that much there there". I read it and I have to agree. There is no source or confirmation at all.

[bitchkitty]

21. "Quite steamed"

Do you have anything to bolster that? Just curious. I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of background on his being "quite steamed".

[Bucky]

26. Consider it "bolstered", my dear sweet bitchkitty. The cite you asked for

[WiseMen]

24. Clark as Dean V.P. was a Attention-Getting Ploy of Dean. Pissed off Clark

Dean had made overtures, but these were rebuffed by Clark.

Clark appear to have been more closely alligned with Kerry but was not willing to openly consider V.P. position on any ticket.

[Romberry]

2. More like Clark and Dean supporters...

...have had something of a falling out. The "Dean asked Clark to be VP" story was put out by the Clark camp to inflame their supporters in advance of his formal entry into the race. It worked a charm.

[KittyWampus]

4. Sort Of Like How Dean Did The "Osama Ad" To Whip His Supporters

into a fundraiser frenzy... right?

[Myra]

13. "Sort Of Like How Dean Did The "Osama Ad" To Whip His Supporters

And intimidate his non-supporters.
And it worked like a charm.

[Padraig18]

15. Have either of you have any proof to back up that charge?

The answer, of course, is 'no. :eyes:

[mitchum]

19. "What is the nature of a thing?"

Old Marcus A was smarter than both of us

[bitchkitty]

22. Don't hold your breath waiting -

Classic case of a Dean-hater talking out of his ass. So transparent, it's pathetic.

[mitchum]

28. as transparent as all of the alarmi$t fundraising?

Modern alchemy: turning outrage into cash

[bitchkitty]

32. Alarmist fundraising?

I call it very successful fundraising, which is a very good thing when you consider the enemy we're up against.

And you know, it seems to me that we have enemies on both sides now. I'm starting to really hate this place.

[robbedvoter]

6. By the Clark supporters? We wanted the VP story? While Clark was

on TV on 3 shows on Sept 16 saying he's running for POTUS only? Nice try, but that's how you guys deal with all threats. The other day I heard you wanted to have Nader as VP. Behold: (someone else's post):
"
Speaking of Nader, I was over checking out (I don't like to call it trolling because I don't post) the DFA blog and they were seriously talking about Nader for a VP candidate. 
I actually had to take another blood pressure pill and lay down after I read those posts. 
You could call it the Duck and the Yuck ticket I guess."

Clark said on a show the offer was made and rejected in September. Dean never said it was made, but on a TV show he said he's like the scenario (and used it as a fact accompli ro get union endorseements).

[mikehiggins]

3. A falling out?

Doesn't that require a coming together first?

Clark and Dean talked before Clark entered the campaign but he didn't run for President because he was p.o.'d at Dean.

Dean and Clark have pretty well maintained a civil relationship in the midst of a tough campaign (although supporters on both sides have repeatedly gone over the edge in their passion for their candidate) and there is no reason to suspect that will change.

However, the idea of a Dean/Clark ticket is a fantasy.

[absyntheNsugar]

12. Yes I know....

An unbeatable fantasy, but with every day I see it more and more of a fantasy. Most likely if Dean wins he will choose Graham as his running mate (he pretty much said it in FL) and the one foot shot I see Clark doing if he gets the nom is bringing in Hillary as his running mate. He's never said anything of the sort, but I fear this combination...

[Bucky]

27. Re: Clark-Hillary ticket: It'll never happen

Edited for dumb typo
Don't know who Clark has in mind. But I can guarantee you it's not the delightful Mrs Clinton. Clark thinks strategically and the junior Senator from NY adds nothing to him.

[Padraig18]

5. The only 'falling out' is here at DU.

In the real world of primary politics, they've been amazingly civil to each other, even to the point of being cordial.

[maddezmom]

7. agree Padraig.

I'm trying really hard to take their lead, but it does get hard at times. :)

[Padraig18]

9. Yes, it does.

Both of our camps have fanatical 'take no prisoners' supporters; fortunately, they are extremely vocal, but extremely SMALL , minority.

[maddezmom]

11. love your avatar

:)

[Padraig18]

14. I like yours, too!

:)

[robbedvoter]

10. Correction: Clark has been civil and refused press bait. *D only refused

when asked in the debate (MSNBC, Sept NYC) about the GOP speech. He said: "It's up to the voters to decide" Nice. Only the next day, behind Clark's back he started "he was a GOP-er until 25 days ago" and flip-floped on war. He NEVER CEASED.

[kaitykaity]

16. Gore endorses Dean, yet many of Gore's people are

working for Clark. Nonjoiners, explain that.

I think any rumor of a falling out is useful to keep
the slugs off track until the announcement of the
ticket.

Dean/Clark would be unstoppable, and they both know it.

[arewethereyet]

17. yes

Wes told Howie to screw himself and ran on his own

[mzmolly]

18. he he. Dean never asked Clark to be his VP both men have denied it.

:hi:

[killbotfactory]

23. Clark needs to dismiss the idea that he will be Dean's VP

Because it basically undermines his support.

I have no idea what their real relationship is about.

[eileen_d]

31. Dean needs to dismiss the idea that he will get Clark as his VP

Because it's after midnight and I say so. And I can edit posts. Did I mention I have enormous hooters?

[MGKrebs]

29. My view...

Clark was consulting with Dean on foreign policy issues before he (Clark) got in the race.

When the DLC realized that Lieberman was not going anywhere, they made Clark "an offer he couldn't refuse" to enter.

Seeing as how Dean has become the anti-DLC candidate with the best chance of winning, Clark and Dean are now at odds on the playing field.

All of this sniping about who attacked who first, or more aggressively, is minor static in the big picture. The real question, I think, is... do you think what won in '92 and '96 will win again? Or have things changed enough that mainstream America is ready for a populist change?

[FrenchieCat]

33. Funny,

I wrote a letter to Clark on June 15th asking him to run. You think that Lieberman was going no where then? I think that Clark got drafted to run... and he accepted.

I understand that Clarkies are getting letters from NH Deanies who said they have been told by Deanie campaign organizer that Clark will be the VP. Also heard that's what Dean had told the Unions in order to get their backings....

As far as the Clark/Dean relationship.....it' ain't all that...publicly as well as privately.

Pic

[RevolutionStartsNow]

34. Huh?

Dean told the unions that Clark would be his VP? Where did you hear that? Source? Link?

Why didn't the unions just back Clark, then, if they thought he was critical to the ticket?

I'm not opposed to the idea, could be a strong ticket, but I doubt that Dean promised the unions any such thing.

Also wondering about your letters claim; are you suggesting that "Deanies in NH" are writing to "Clarkies"? Is there a list of "Clarkie" addresses somewhere?

Sorry for all the questions, but your post raises some questions.

[FrenchieCat]

35. When Clarkies wrote letters to NH voters...

Several got letters back....stating that Clark would be Dean's VP, and they liked that...so were voting for Dean.

Also in NH, while canvasing was being done, An organizer said "Dean/Clark" ticket...that's what you'll get! A NH voter reported that on the Clark's website.

But No, I do not have any links...since this ain't an article that I read.....it's called insider info.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

36. Sounds trivial

There are a number of Dean supporters who advocate a Dean/Clark ticket, nothing wrong with that. They may even believe that this is what the ticket will be.

There are just as many Dean supporters -- or maybe even more -- who DON'T want Clark on the ticket; I don't think there's any concerted effort in NH or anywhere else to sell this idea.

And certainly not with the unions.

That's pretty funny, though, that Clarkies got return letters saying the recipients would be voting for Dean. That must be frustrating!

[FrenchieCat]

37. Yes it is...

especially if it's based on a lie....But then, the good doctor is known to tell a few!

Edited to add: It's ok, cause they got a response to their response.
It's called "follow-up".

[RevolutionStartsNow]

38. Keep those letters coming, then!

Poll: 'Dean Demolishes Rivals in NH'

With six weeks to go before the New Hampshire primary, SurveyUSA takes its first poll of the season in the Granite State:

Dean 45
Kerry 15
Clark 11
Lieberman 11
Edwards 6
Gephardt 4
Other 6
Undecided 2

http://www.surveyusa.com/2004_Elections/NH031217DemPrimary.pdf

[Donna Zen]

39. Honor is never trivial.