Are Republican Operatives Playing Nasty Tricks on the Dean/Clark camps?

[mzmolly]

No matter what you think of a Dean/Clark or Clark/Dean match-up it's got to be a nightmare scenario for Bush and company. They have everything to gain from dividing these two camps.

It would appear to me that the recent "flyer" episode is nothing more then a dirty Republican trick. This way, they kill two birds with one stone.

1. Create flyers and put a bogus "Paid for by the Dean Campiagn" stamp on them.

2. They get to trash Clark and Dean in the process.

Makes ya wonder? ;)

I also think part of the plan is to divide Democrats, they appear to be doing just that.

[wingnut]

1. I dunno

They really seem to dislike each other.

Nothing would suprise me, though.

[Lisa0825]

2. Yeah, I have been thinking the same.....

and also wondering if we have some Rove-ing posters here too.

[mzmolly]

6. Totally wondered about "Roving" posters too

"divide" and conquer :(

[dave29]

3. Hell the have 180 million to spend

I can imagine they could afford some leaflets

[Democrats unite]

4. It was reported that Dean supporters were passing them out...

I am not saying that Dean was connected with it, but maybe some over zealous supporters.

[mzmolly]

5. It was reported as such, which means the "plan" was effective in the short

term... :shrug:

[Fleshdancer]

8. didn't "regular" Floridians storm some office in 2000 (regular=Rep. aides)

Doesn't someone have that picture here somewhere? I can't remember the exact details, but photos were taken of "protests" about the Florida ballot bullsh*t and later it was discovered that the "protesters" were actually Republican congressional aides???

It definitely could be Dean supporters who are handing out flyers, but it certainly wouldn't be beyond the Bush gang to pull a stunt like this either.

[mzmolly]

10. I agree. I really don't *think* Dean supporters would do this

it smells more like Rove.

[blm]

7. They've been dividing us since early last year. DeLay even laughed about

it last March. Guess you didn't notice as long as your candidate benefitted from it.

[mzmolly]

9. Way to slam in a "unity" thread...

BLM. :toast:

I'm not taking your bait, but thanks anyhow.

Now back to the subject. :hi:

[Hawkeye-X]

11. what'd BLM say

I've got that person on ignore... must be one hell of a slam.

Hawkeye-X

[mzmolly]

14. Here it is..

Originally posted by BLM

They've been dividing us since early last year. DeLay even laughed about it last March. Guess you didn't notice as long as your candidate benefitted from it.

Guess it's nothing major, but the implication would appear to be that Dean benefited from Republican operatives and not his hard work/message/campaign/support?

[Hawkeye-X]

12. what'd BLM say

I've got that person on ignore... must be one hell of a slam.

Hawkeye-X

[WillyT]

20. You're A Class Act Molly !!!

:toast:

Some folks just don't like all that 'mushy' unity stuff I guess.

I believe the rePub dirty tricksters used to call it 'ratfucking'. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if that's what they're doing to the Dean and Clark camps now.

:shrug:

[mzmolly]

43. Thanks WT.

:) Right back Atcha!

[Rowdyboy]

52. As ugly and unnecessary as it seems

that kind of response is gonna be around until one or the other candidate wins. I'm sorry, but we might as well get used to it.

I agree with you, Molly, even if this particular incident isn't traceable to Rove, whoever is nominated is gonna be slimed like no candidate in American history has ever been slimed and he will be the prime source.

[worldgonekrazy]

50. Ah blm...always there to slam my candidate

It is really a winning strategy. With every one of your posts my heart grows fonder for John Kerry.

Really.

I swear.

[redqueen]

13. Yes

No question.

And it will get worse. Much worse.

Nothing is so dangerous as an animal backed into a corner, and that's what the Bu$hCo regime is like now. They can sense their undoing and with each passing week they will resort to nastier and dirtier tactics to avoid the a$$whoopin that they have coming. :)

[mzmolly]

17. I think your right. I wish Democrats would catch on and be somewhat

united. I like the fact that the candidates said they'd support one another.

[mot78]

15. Absolutely

I don't think Dean supporters or Clark supporters would stoop that low. Clark and Dean should respond by portraying these attacks for what they are: divide and conquer. I'd like to see the Dean and Clark camps accuse Rove and capitalize on the anger to build up support. That would teach Rove not to make an Ed Muskie or a McCain out of our candidates.

[redqueen]

16. I suggested something like this in another thread

I think we should all contact the campaigns and ask them to get together for a brainstorming meeting.

They need to devise ways to capitalize on the right's fear and trump their strategy.

[Carni]

18. AWESOME idea!

Seriously...whether they are attacking each other or not your idea would be an excellent one. They should hold a press conference and do what you are suggesting IMO

[mzmolly]

22. A Press Conference, I love it!

There is no reason you can't continue to focus on why *your* the best candiate, while staying focused on the ultimate goal.

:toast:

A Press Conference stating we are United, and have a positive message for the future of America.

[mzmolly]

19. Right on. We should write our candidates.

:)

[daria_g]

21. It's quite possible..

(Btw, I lurk here mostly and post a lot on Kos, but I do read often..)

I think we just have to try and build bridges among Dean and Clark supporters, so that the minute one hears of an alleged "dirty trick" by the other camp, you immediately assume this information is not true unless proven otherwise.

For instance, I am in the Dean camp, but do not believe that General Clark was behind some recent ads, and frankly I always presume that supporters of both candidates really are in this with a common goal.

I thought I should just put in my two cents because the fighting over here can get bad sometimes, and.. well, I had some seriously bad-tempered moments last year as regards attacks on candidates, but I consciously try to put that aside now.

And furthermore, it strikes me as strategically useful even in the face of a dirty trick/smear attack. Imagine, say, that some folks were making up fake Dean flyers - and the Clark campaign responds by saying basically, "We don't use those tactics ourselves and we don't think the Dean people would use those tactics either." It would, I think, only make the Clark campaign look better in the eyes of the voters. And vice versa from the Dean camp.

I'm not trying to be naive here but to advocate taking the high road because it is at once strategically useful as well as, I think, the right thing to do.

[Lisa0825]

24. Good post, daria_g!

And Welcome to DU!!!
:hi:

[daria_g]

28. Thanks!

Glad to be here. In light of the fact that there will be a Democratic administration taking office in 2005, I am campaigning for the establishment of a Cabinet-level Department of Civility. I wish I could think of a funnier way to put that, but I can't.. :)

[stopthegop]

23. "It would appear to me "..

based on what evidence...we can't cry Rove! (wolf) everytime something happens we disgree with...

listen to the debates..the candidates are a bit testy with each other...a supporter could easily have done this...

BUT: as I said..evidence of Repub involvement would change things

[mzmolly]

26. I believe the evidence is ample...

Also, there are surely freeps here who don't want to see Dems united. I imagine they pose as X supporters and stir shit all day long. ;)

And, then here are others *working with the campaigns* to try to perpetuate the *divide and conquer* thang as well.

And, they have been successful to a degree.

[stopthegop]

27. could you direct me to the ample evidence? thanks n/t

.

[mzmolly]

30. Your lookin at it... It's all over DU

:hi:

[stopthegop]

31. that's what I thought.....

have good evening...

[mzmolly]

34. That's what I thought too?!

Imagine that ;)

You have a good evening too! :hi:

Who do you support stopthegop? Just curious ...

[stopthegop]

36. undecided....

leaning toward Dean so far...

[mzmolly]

41. Ohhhhhhhhh.

What appeals to you about him?

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[_NorCal_D_]

38. Didn't you have a NBD signature recently?

Not exactly a profound unifying statement, eh Molly? B-)

[mzmolly]

42. I did...

But, once I saw through the Rovian tactics that caused me to profess my NBD-ness, I decided not to let *them* win.

I am and always have been ABB, you?

[_NorCal_D_]

47. I'm glad that you reconsidered.

I am absolutely ABB. B-)

[mzmolly]

48. As I've said, I always have been ...

ABB. SHHHHHHHHHHHH! ;)

:hi: Looking forward to working together for the ultimate goal. May the best man/woman take out *

[in_cog_ni_to]

25. No, we know who's playing the nasty tricks. n/t

[mzmolly]

29. I agree *we* do...

:hi:

[Padraig18]

33. Some are playing tricks right here.

We have freepers in our midst, and only the rules prevent me from naming some names...

[mzmolly]

35. I totally agree Padraig.

;)

[Padraig18]

37. Thanks!

:)

[AntiCoup2K4]

40. Do the rules only apply to current DU members?

What if somebody already announced their intentions to leave the board? Then can they be named? Or, lets say someone was e-mailing death threats around? Is there an exception once their activities become criminal?

[deakonblues2k]

39. WHAT?

Unless this entire board is filled with repugs, then I'm having a hard time believing that you don't see the animosity that seems to permiate so much of the board.

Sure its possible... but that's suggesting an aweful lot of involvement from the right at a very low level at a very early state. If its true that they want to run against Dean, why would they do anything to pull him into a frey?

Sorry, as attributed earlier, I think there is 'ample evidence' that these folks just really are having a hard time getting along and the campaigns are taking a cue from that. Its a PRIMARY season, and granted, its been a while since this many charismatic qualified candidates were all up there together at the same time all gunning for the same spot as the nominee and all fighting tooth and nail to get it.

This will not be a gentlemanly process...you can quote me on this, and it will get much worse before it gets better.

Honestly, I think what Dean has done, but going outside the normal channel, by ignoring and turning down the matching funds, by limiting his responsibilities to the DLC Machine, that this is why there is so much turmoil in the ranks.

In the days of smokey room nominations, you didn't have rogue candidates who got this much attention from the rank and file. Its a matter of decentralized control of the nominating process and its obvious that there are 2 camps here...The new and the old, the inside the beltway folks and the outside the beltway folks. I think that this may certainly fracture the party to the point of failure in 2004, but I think its a turning point in the political process as a whole that will significantly limit the DLC and GOP in their ability to control their parties from a centralized point in the future.

FWIW

[mzmolly]

44. I think there are several factors at play. Rove is one of them.

Edited to add, I do think this board is *filled with Repugs* ...

I also disagree that there are two camps with in the Democratic party. In fact, I think that's a FAUX news talking point. There is one camp. It's the Democratic camp, and it's time we stopped letting Rove and Co. divide us.

[CWebster]

45. That's damn charitable of you

but my suspicion starts and ends with him who done spread the word. Isn't that what it is all about for him? Spreading the word?

[mzmolly]

46. Well I think the *operatives* are un-paid rookies but....

Rove would juuust love it :loveya:

Yup "spreading the word"... in fact, spreading something else comes to mind as well ;)

[CWebster]

49. Which of course raises the question

of where the Rove machine is operating from...

[mzmolly]

51. That it does.

:shrug:

[Rowdyboy]

53. Believe me

We'll be seeing much more of them this year, whoever is the nominee. Look for the sleaziest campaign and the cheapest tricks in history. Rove is gonna set new records.