Dean intends to cut middle class taxes after repealing all of Bush's tax

[dajabr]

relief

(01-07) 14:23 PST BURLINGTON, Vt. (AP) --

Howard Dean's advisers said Wednesday that he will offer a plan to cut middle class taxes, a shift in the Democratic presidential candidate's economic vision that has focused on repealing all of President Bush's tax cuts.

Several of Dean's rivals made taxes the centerpiece of their challenge to the front-runner in two debates this week in Iowa, where Democratic strategists and pollsters say the race is tightening less than two weeks before the Jan. 19 caucuses.

Pressed on the issue, Gina Glantz, a senior adviser traveling with Dean, said the tax plan would be paired with his goal of balancing the budget and paying for spending programs such as health care and education.

"He's going to have a strategy to balance the budget and provide tax fairness of the middle class," she said.

More: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/01/07/politics1723EST0700.DTL

[Hep]

1. They're already spreading the lie.

Nowhere has Dean SAID that he was not considering middle class tax relief. I've been stating this for MONTHS.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

2. Ummm... why roll back the Bush tax cuts then?

That's no lie.

[dajabr]

4. Ummmm...because they're Bush's tax cuts? (nt)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

7. Hello? Is that rational thinking?

because they're Bush's tax cuts? I see irrational hatred of Bush. For guidance, look at John Kerry's response to the tax cuts- keep the middle class but take back the rich's cut.

[BobbyJay]

16. Don't bother arguing with them.

Btw, WHERE has Dean EVER refered to wanting to cut middle class taxes. This is a total 180 and everyone knows it.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

57. Go here and you'll see that he's been talking about it for at

least 3 months. I've heard him talk about it for over a year, though. Not a 180.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=75048&mesg_id=75909

[Hep]

36. Just tell me

Do you really think Bush's tax cuts can't be replaced with better tax policy? Just say it and I'll concede our difference of opinion.

[KittyWampus]

21. No, The Middle Class Tax Cuts Were Put There By DEMOCRATS

you know, the cockroaches.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

22. Yep. And the refund checks ahead of time too.

I forgot about that. Dean is flipping and flopping here. No doubt about it.

[Hep]

37. Show me.

Can you show me the bill?

[Demobrat]

12. Because they mainly benefit

people who don't need help. Why is that so hard to understand?

[Hep]

35. OK, let's stop and take a look at this.

You just asked me:

"why roll back the Bush tax cuts then"

Do you know how weirded out that made me, reading that on a Democratic web board?

BECAUSE THEY SUCK.

If you don't think a better middle class tax policy is out there, then WTF????? I want to hear you say that you think Bush's middle class tax package is just fine. Seriously, this is getting creepy.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

54. Just roll back the Bush tax cuts FOR THE RICH

simple... no? It doesn't take real Democrats like John Kerry more than 2 seconds to figure that out.

[Hep]

58. Of course Kerry figured that out

That's why he is BUSH LITE.

Answer my question, please. Do you really think that Bush's middle class tax cut can't be improved on? Do you really not think that there is an argument to be made for getting rid of ALL of it and replacing it with something better, more fair?

Tellme why you would want to defend ANY part of ANY Bush policy. And tell me why the good parts (few and far between) of any of Bush's policies can't be worked into a new and better policy.

[farmbo]

41. Bush didn't touch the Payroll tax...the toughest tax on working people!

Bush cut income and dividend taxes only.

[dajabr]

3. You and I knew this the minute he called for a total repeal...

Why did everyone else miss it?

I'll see if I can find the quote or article - maybe in the blog or Dean for America archives?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

6. Nope. He said he needs the money for his health plan.

Your search will be in vain. Save your energy. He never said it.

[Demobrat]

10. Actually, he's talked about it many times.

He wants to simplify the tax code too.

[papau]

23. past phrase "simplify the tax code" included middle class tax cut

and Dean said as much quite a few times.

but no details

and no certainty that "simplify the tax code" did indeed included middle class tax cut

[NewYorkerfromMass]

28. "simplify the tax code" is actually code for somehting else

flat tax or other measures to help Wall Street and Park Avenue- 2 streets Dean is well acquainted with.

[Woodstock]

56. He has said he wanted to repeal then start over again with tax cuts

I've heard it, too.

He just hasn't stressed it as much as he should have. Which is why I'm glad he's doing so now.

[dajabr]

33. WSJ-August 22, 2003

'We Can Do Better'

BY HOWARD DEAN

--snip--

We can do better. As president, my economic policies will be focused and clear. I will begin by repealing the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, and using the revenues that result from the repeal to address the needs of the average American, invest in the nation's infrastructure and, through tax reform, put money in the hands of those most likely to spend it.

The task of meeting the needs of American families begins with health care. My plan will not only insure millions of Americans who are without adequate care today, it will reduce costs for small business, states and communities--freeing up funds that can be used to grow businesses and meet other national and local priorities.

An important part of my program for a full-employment recovery will be extending a helping hand to states and communities. My policies as governor kept Vermont strong fiscally; but all over America, the financial resources of other states and cities are strained to the limit. Teachers are being laid off, highways lack repairs, firehouses are closed. Instead of tax cuts that have not created jobs, we need to make investments in America. I will increase federal aid for special education, and provide more temporary help to the states--for homeland security and school construction and infrastructure modernization. And I will increase the availability of capital for small businesses, so that they can invest in new technology and create more jobs.

No program for economic recovery and growth can ignore the tax system, particularly the bizarre collection of tax expenditures, preferences, credits and deductions which has directed revenues away from the federal treasury and into uneconomic tax avoidance schemes. Average Americans pay their taxes through withholding or quarterly estimates. Meanwhile, corporations and multinational enterprises take advantage of elaborate tax shelters, and billions go uncollected. The need for reform is obvious and compelling, and I will give tax reform a top priority in my administration. But unlike the tax initiatives of the current president, my program of tax reform and relief will be targeted to the average Americans who are struggling to make ends meet--not those whose needs are well provided for.

More: http://www.unemployedfordean.org/blogs/news/articles/deaneditorial.htm

[dajabr]

34. "So is this a flip-flop? Technically, no" - TNR

--snip--

So is this a flip-flop? Technically, no. Dean makes it clear that his idea of "tax reform" means cutting taxes for lower income Americans only if the government recoups the revenue by jacking up taxes on the wealthy or going after corporations that shirk their responsibilities now. That means he's staying true to his promise of being fiscally responsible while still giving himself room to attack the other Democratic candidates, who in Congress voted for recent tax cuts without any measures to generate offsetting revenue. (They weren't as fiscally irresponsible as Bush's tax cuts, but they still drained money from the federal treasury.) "The votes didn't match with the level of fiscal responsibility required," says Joe Trippi, Dean's campaign manager.

--snip--

So to sum up: Dean's op-ed is true to his principles on fiscal responsibility, which is, after all, a major component of his campaign. But Dean's lashing of other candidates did, in retrospect, go a little overboard--just as his critics have complained.

More: http://www.tnr.com/primary/index.mhtml?pid=626

[Hep]

38. That's not the lie

The lie is that it is a change of position.

[Cha]

11. That's all they know how to do is..

Lie! They couldn't handle the Truth!

[Buffler]

60. Dean has such a great plan

that he will not reveal what it is until it is time for the general election.

If he has a plan, and a solid, desireable, workable plan why not release the details of it NOW?!?!? Why wait till the GE, after the nomination has been wrapped up? Maybe because currently all he has is words and no plan.

Vote for me! I have a plan! But I can't tell you what it is till you vote for me!

[Hep]

61. Damn!

When exactly will Dean unveil this policy?

[Buffler]

62. Thats what I'm asking!

If he has this middle class tax cut plan, when is he going to tell us what it is? Or is he going to start saying "I have a secret plan to cut taxes for the middle class."

[Hep]

64. You're not asking anything

You said he was waiting until the GE. I want your proof. Post it.

[blm]

5. Then why does he say the others are wrong for keeping a middle class cut?

Which is it, Howie? Are they right or are they wrong? Or were YOU the one who was wrong?

[dajabr]

8. Nothing wrong with scrapping the whole thing...

and starting from scratch.

[blm]

19. While accusing others of being Bushlite for keeping middle class taxcuts?

While his supporters parroted that charge ad nauseum based on Dean's attacks?

[dajabr]

40. Two things...

See post #34 which is from a source that is openly hostile to Dean, they go easy on him about his attacks on the other candidates.

Also, Dean nation usually calls it right, and here's what they have to say on the matter:

--excerpt--

Note also that the main champions of leaving the Bush tax plan in place for the middle class (Kerry and Lieberman) are falling into a rhetorical trap of ceding the debate (which Clark is guilty of doing on foreign policy). But Dean inverts the "it's your money" argument - staying true to the liberal notion that givernment services can act as a great engine of opportunity for the lower classes. Note that it is Republican fiscal ideology that supports the demise of upward mobility. The ideological assault upon the New Deal has begun - starting with symbolic measures, but the real agenda is to "starve the beast." Note that while social programs get starved out of existence, largesse is showered upon the corporate interests - further underlining their deliberate fiscal agenda of corporate welfare. Horatio Alger is not just dying, he is being systematically murdered.

When Democrats become Bush Lite, they are abdicating their responsibility to defend the policies and ideologies that define liberalism itself - the idea that success should accrue from hard work and equal opportunity, to any American regardless of lineage or caste. Is it any wonder that Al Gore signed onto the Dean campaign? This really is about the People vs the Powerful.

Is Dean going to step up to the plate? Arguing that there was no tax cut is only the first step. He has to follow through on the swing - and the recent hints about a payroll tax cut are exactly what the Doctor should order.

The Clark tax plan is good, but it isn't a visionary one. Dean has been talking about repealing the entire tax cut for months now, and we have not been very happy about it, but if you take Dean's position on the Bush tax cuts along with a proposed payroll tax cut, and sell them together in the context of defending against the corporate-welfare-driven ideology of the Administration, suddenly you have a much more potent argument. Clark's approach doesn't defend our values in the same manner as would such a combination. Let's see what the Doctor proposes...

Rest of article and additional links: http://dean2004.blogspot.com/

[sandnsea]

27. Will his supporters care?

That's the million dollar question. After spending a year bashing the middle class tax cuts, how will they justify this about face? I've never seen anything like this. It doesn't matter what he has to say anymore, he's already been on so many sides of every issue that he would be a complete embarrassment in the GE. At this point, I'd rather have Lieberman. At least he's consistent.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

29. Lieberman also knows where to find Job.

[bearfartinthewoods]

52. all those attacks on the other dem's for wanting tax cuts for the middle..

if he's planned on doing the same thing all along, why the attacks???

oh yeah...no flip flop here.../sarcasm

[Hep]

53. When did he do that, exactly?

When and exactly how did he attack others for wanting cuts? Be specific. Show sources, preferably quotes. I'll wait.

[nancyharris]

9. Question?

<”he will offer a plan to cut middle class taxes”>

What does Governor Dean consider “middle-class”?

[Gin]

13. he said at the beginning...that he would roll back the whole bush tax cut

and then do fair tax cuts for the middle class and others who need them...not the top 1% who don't.

[nancyharris]

26. Ill ask again.

What income level does Governor Dean consider “middle-class”?

[slinkerwink]

14. I already knew he was going to cut middle class taxes after repealing all

of Bush's tax cuts. :shrug:

[NewYorkerfromMass]

25. That's called blind faith

I believe.

The truth is Dean said he needed all the money for his health plan, and that has been his standard response to criticism of his repeal of the entire package of cuts.
:shrug:

[BobbyJay]

15. LOL where's Padraig?????

LOL Dean is like clockwork.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

17. Dean ego at work here: "Bush = all bad, but I am all good"

totally irrational.

[Bombtrack]

18. so hypocritical, "you can't have both" has been 1 of his central attacks

. Of course, that fits, because he's a huge hypocrite

[BobbyJay]

20. It smacks of desperation

Notice how he didn't alter his "tax plan" until after the last debate? He didn't want to get slammed on it.



www.clark04.com

[Leilani]

43. He didn't talk about

middle class tax cuts until Wes Clark moved up in the polls.

Signs of desperation!

[maddezmom]

24. sounds good, what does Dean consider middle class?

<<Dean declined to comment on his plans. Campaign spokesman Doug Thornell said the plan is still being developed and the campaign would not provide details, including when the plan will be made public.>>>

and when do you think they will be done developing the plan?

[DFLforever]

31. In time for the general election

this is one of the issues that his opponents have used re his 'electability'. On the other hand, I think many Dem primary voters would be delighted to see Bush's tax cuts rescinded, since they amount to a looting of the treasury for years to come.

[revcarol]

30. Now, y'all, it's not pandering...

just changing his mind after he has run on repealing Bush tax cuts for months and months and getting everyone all frothed up about it.Everyone has a right to change his mind, it's just that he changes it so often...

Where's the Real Howard Dean? Somewhere under that rug...

[blm]

32. gee, rev...

now, you're starting to sound like me. ;))))

Careful, but wear your target proudly.

[arewethereyet]

39. since he was going to pay for all his stuff with that money

what ISN'T he going to now that he's deigned to let us keep a buck or two ?

And since he's decided to ignore the last 6 months of his rhetoric, is he also going to decide to pull out the troops and then Re-attack Iraq only do it the RIGHT way ? Will he decide that that civil unions thing was really ill concieved after all, that the NRA are just icky crazy people and that they have GUNS and need to be closeted and just screw those rebel flag rednecks who are of no use at all and while we're at it, that DLC and DNC are really GREAT people and what a fool I was to say mean things to them and oh, screw all you internet people, get off the computer and get a life !

The guys has just shredded what little credibility he had left.

Say good night Dr Dean !

[David Dunham]

42. Dean, Where's The Beef?

Dean proposes that he will reveal his unspecified middle class tax cut after the New Hampshire primary. He has no clear plan yet. As Walter Mondale asked in 1984, "Where's the beef?", Howard. I don't think this delaying tactic will work for Dean.

[Hep]

44. ACtually, he's pretty clear about where the bulk of the money

would come from, and it's clearly pointed out. There always has been room for sensible middle class tax relief. Why you believe any different based on the available facts remains a mystery.

[arewethereyet]

46. so why was he adamant about rolling all of it back for so long ?

and why did he say that it was no tax cut at all and that rolling it back would have the effect of becoming a tax cut ?

and he used to be interested in reducing the deficit.

nice try but I really just refuse to get past him flip flopping on one of the two (actually both of them now) cornerstones of his campaign.

[Hep]

48. Let's get it right out in the open

Say it frankly! Why doesn't dean just leave BUSH'S tax cut for the middle class in place?

And the answer is, we don't need Bush's tax cut to have good tax policy. Deadwood. No one yet has given me an argument for why Bush's tax cuts SHOULD stay in place if something better can be found. Perhaps you can help?

[Boo Boo]

45. Dean's tax fairness plan...

is like Bush's Department of Homeland Security plan: an announcement made out of political expediency; a place holder; an empty folder with a cover sheet. He'll fill in the blanks later.

There is no plan. Just a lot of hot air from a guy that wishes he'd done what the Clark campaign just did. I'd be more impressed if there was some evidence of an actual work product, but there isn't; just another press release.

"I'll do that too, only better!" is a pretty lame response.

[arewethereyet]

47. it shows he never thought out his platform and lacks principle

why has Edwards been able to stay consistant on his ? Thats right, he's a real polititian and knows how to do his homework FIRST so that he doesn't have to scramble at every turn.

[dajabr]

49. Kick for Hep...

:kick:

Looks like you're getting the brush-off on your questions.

:shrug:

[Hep]

50. Thanks!

I think they're simple and honest enough. So far we have two issues on this board where some folks are totally defending Bush's domestic policy. Tax cuts and No Child Left Behind. What will the third be? Amnesty? I can't wait to find out!

[Hep]

51. One more kick just to make sure no one has anything in reply

n/t

[Woodstock]

55. Whew, what a relief

I know he was just being honest, but honesty doesn't pay these days.

Now he'll get blasted for "changing his mind" but to me, changing your mind is admirable if you have discovered a better way of doing things.

And has been pointed out, he had tax fairness for the middle class in mind all along.

For him, Bush's tax cuts were so flawed (and so skewed toward the wealthy) that he wanted to repeal the whole thing and start over again.

If I've heard him say that once, I've heard him say it a million times.

His first priority was getting the health care plan in place. I think his strategy as now outlined is much better.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

59. -snip-

"As I have consistently said since November 2002, I will propose additional tax reforms that will make the tax code fairer for working families and that will ensure that corporations and the wealthy pay their fair share," he said.


And....


Press Release

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

October 16, 2003
Contact: Press Office, 802-651-3200
Governor Dean Unveils Economic Plan

WASHINGTON—Democratic presidential candidate Governor Howard Dean, M.D., unveiled his economic program today, condemning the “Enron Economics” of the Bush administration, and promising that, as president, he would “reclaim the American dream” for working families.
Speaking to students and faculty at Georgetown University, Governor Dean spoke out against the growing influence of corporate and special interests in the political process.

“When the balance of power in Washington shifts and private interests trump the common good American capitalism has been betrayed. Over the last 30 years, we have allowed multinational corporations and other special interests to use our nation’s government to undermine our nation’s promise. They have bought access to power with their campaign contributions and their lobbyists. And they’ve used that access to ensure that the laws--and most importantly the tax code--benefit them,” Governor Dean said.

“The Bush presidency is the realization of our founding fathers’ fear – that one day economic power would seize political power. Enron epitomizes this fear, corporate power run amok. The executives at Enron misled the public and their employees to line their pockets with millions of dollars while employees lost their jobs, lost their health insurance and lost their pensions,” Dean said. “President Bush has brought the Enron model from Texas to Washington. He’s implemented an economic plan for the country with reckless tax cuts based on false economic assumptions that benefit the wealthiest in our society at the expense of ordinary working Americans. The President’s economics are Enron economics.”

The Dean economic program consists of:

JOB CREATION: A short-term stimulus to create 1 million new jobs through a $100 billion Fund to Restore America that will help states and local governments create jobs in health, education, and homeland security, as well as build or restore schools, roads and other infrastructure.

FISCAL DISCIPLINE: Repeal all the president’s tax cuts, pay for new programs without increasing the deficit, and a pledge to balance the budget.

HELP FOR SMALL BUSINESS: A new Small Business Capital Corporation to expand the secondary market for small business loans and make capital for these job creators available more easily and at a lower cost.

TAX FAIRNESS: An aggressive effort to clean up the tax code, end corporate welfare, close tax loopholes, enhance enforcement against tax cheats and to shift the burden of taxation back toward corporations giving fairer treatment to individual taxpayers.

TAX SIMPLIFICATION: A commitment to tax simplification so that at least half of American taxpayers will no longer have to fill out forms.

BETTER DEAL FOR WORKING FAMILIES: Addressing working families' anxieties about making ends meet with a higher minimum wage, universal health care, greater assistance with early education and care and college for their kids and a secure retirement.
Governor Dean explained that recovering from the Bush administration’s reckless policies—that have cost 3.1 million jobs and turned a $3.1 trillion surplus into a $3.8 trillion deficit—will be difficult.
“The effect of this president's policies is to saddle a family of four with $52,000 in national debt over the next six years alone. And let’s be clear what American middle class families actually received. In 2003, 60 percent of Americans will get an average of $307; the top one percent of all households received an average of over $26,000,” Governor Dean said.

“What George Bush is basically doing is borrowing $1000 in your name and handing you $250 of it. That is why I say, unlike some of my rivals, we need to repeal all of the president’s tax cuts. These tax cuts weren’t written for the majority of America. These tax cuts weren’t written to return economic power back to the people. These tax cuts, like Enron’s finances, are a scheme to make the rich richer, to starve Social Security and Medicare and to put our nation’s financial strength at risk by creating the largest debt in history.”

“We’ll have to be honest with the American people that it’s going to take years and some sacrifice to dig out,” Dean said. “I pledge to the American people that a Dean administration in Washington will do what the Dean administration did in Vermont: we will balance the budget.”

http://www.smallbusinessfordean.com/release2.shtml

[robbedvoter]

63. here's a somewhat more candid article:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-dean8jan08,1,1877889.story?coll=la-headlines-nation

 

Dean Considers Middle-Class Tax Help

Possible policy change comes after he takes hits from his Democratic rivals for saying he would repeal all of Bush's rollbacks.
By Matea Gold
Times Staff Writer
prior positions:
""I think we ought get rid of every dime of the Bush tax cuts so we can have health insurance, so we can have support for middle-class people who try to send their kids to college," Dean told voters in Indianola, Iowa, on Tuesday.
Dean has told audiences he would support a plan of "tax fairness" for working families, but he has not specified what that would include.
The former governor has hinged the financing for several of his major policy proposals on the revenue he has said would be created by rolling back the Bush tax relief program."

[Hawkeye-X]

65. kick