Note to DU: The President (elect) does not have a say over how the Senate is run.

[BuyingThyme]

If you want to blame Obama for something, blame him for considering Hillary Clinton for a cabinet post. That he has a say in.

[wndycty]

1. Legally he does not, but when Durbin and Kerry speak out in support of Lieberman. . .

. . .its pretty obvious to me that this was his call.

[BuyingThyme]

2. No chance. You guys are getting caught up in Bush politics.

That's now how the government is really run.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

8. Not really

it is apparent that Obama had his hand in this. If you don't think that Harry Reid talked to Obama about this then I think it's you who doesn't understand something.

[BuyingThyme]

12. But what are you going to say when Obama comes out and says he

had nothing to do with it?

[QueenOfCalifornia]

14. I doubt that

he will comment at all.

[leftynyc]

3. True statement legally

but if you think there is no connection, you're new to Washington politics. The Senate did exactly what PE Obama wanted them to do.

[GodlessBiker]

4. This is true, but the Vice President does, per Sarah "In what respect, Charlie?" Palin.

[Metric System]

5. Exactly! PRIORITIES PEOPLE!!!! Now let's get back to Hillary bashing! WOOHOOO!!!!

[sufrommich]

6. So is Howard Dean lying? nt

[BuyingThyme]

10. About what?

[cali]

7. lol. bzzzzt. Wrong.

He has tremendous influence over key Senators. DUH.

[BuyingThyme]

9. Oh, Cali, you've never been right about anything.

Do you really think your luck is going to change on this one?

[cali]

11. I suggest you check out what Howard Dean has to say, thymy

He agrees with me and everyone else on this thread. You know what they say about crazy people, right? They believe everyone else is wrong and only they're right- not matter the evidence.

[BuyingThyme]

13. What does Howard Dean have to say?

[QueenOfCalifornia]

16. Use the Google

Howard Dean Supports Senate's Lieberman Decision, Says It Was What Obama Wanted
By Greg Sargent - November 18, 2008, 1:59PM

Howard Dean says that he's "fine" with the Senate's decision not to kick Joe Lieberman off the Homeland Security committee, because in his view it's what Barack Obama wanted.

In a phone interview with me just after the vote concluded, I asked Dean if he thought the Senate should keep Lieberman. He said that the Senate had acted "in the spirit of unification, which is what the President-elect wanted."

"He called the shots, and that's fine," Dean said.

Dean also cast efforts to remove Lieberman as "revenge," a description that will dismay many of Dean's allies in the liberal blogosphere, who maintain (as do I) that this wasn't solely about retribution.

"I think it's in every human being's heart to get revenge," Dean said, adding that the time had come to "swallow hard" and "put aside that kind of stuff."

"It's pretty hard to run the country based on, `We're all working together,' if your first act is to strip someone who was your political enemy...of power," Dean said.

Asked if Lieberman should keep the chairmanship given his performance at the post, Dean replied that it was up to the Senate to evaluate the job Lieberman did. "The Senate will do what the Senate does," Dean said. "It's not my place to interfere."

"They asked Senator Obama's opinion and he gave it," Dean said.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/11/howard_dean_supports_senates_l.php

[Occam Bandage]

20. Man, it would be embarrassing to be you. nt

[cali]

40. only if you have a smidgeon of self-awareness.

[BuyingThyme]

42. Oh, Cali, I've embarrassed you so many times that you can't

help yourself from stalking my threads.

Do you really think people can't pick up on that?

It's because you're as dumb as a rock, you know.

[cali]

49. only in your teeny eeny mind

you've been completely humiliated on this thread (not to mention your bozo last one) and you're still wonderfully clueless.

I love your posts for the sheer entertainment value. It's your unparalleled moran factor that's so mind boggling. I suspect I'm not alone.

:rofl:

[BuyingThyme]

52. Oh, Cali, if you ever grow up you'll be able to answer questions and communicate beyond the rofl.

[CatWoman]

70. Will wonders never cease?

I agree 100 percent.

[karynnj]

15. The President always has a voice, just not a vote

There have been bills where the differnce between passing and failing is a strong endorsement from the President.

In this case it involved him, he was the victim of what Leiberman did and he said he wanted the party to move on - he had the right to state his preference and it likely moved many. As this was his PUBLIC statement - how would it have looed ifLeiberman was thrown out by a big majority.

[BuyingThyme]

18. How did it involve him?

[Occam Bandage]

22. Howard Dean: "[Obama] called the shots, and that's fine." nt

[karynnj]

67. Two reasons

1) The cause was Leiberman being against him. As the person "harmed", he has moral standing to be magnimous
2) Any lingering animousities in the Senate make passing hs agenda harder. This sets a good tone and takes this new "outrage" away from talk radio. (who were speaking of this nobel Leiberman who was going to be punished for taking a stand.

[Occam Bandage]

17. De jure, no. De facto, hell yes.

Obama was a key player in Lieberman keeping his seat. Howard Dean said as much.

[BuyingThyme]

23. Where did Howard Dean say that?

[Occam Bandage]

24. I really need to learn to stop feeding you, but:

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/11/howard_dean_supports_senates_l.php

[BuyingThyme]

26. Nowhere in that little article does is say anything even close to what you said

about Obama being a key player.

Why did you post such nonsense in support of your nonsense?

[Occam Bandage]

27. Your naked attempts to save face are only digging you deeper. nt

[BuyingThyme]

28. If you know what "save face" means, please explain your use of it.

[Occam Bandage]

30. ...

:rofl:

You're just too funny, BT. Ciao.

[BuyingThyme]

32. That's what I thought.

[Abacus]

71. I, too, despise attrition as a debate strategy.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

35. Now you are

acting fucking stupid.

There it is, upthread for you to read and you still act like an idiot.

How old are you? My 9 year old son has way more sense than to keep arguing after facts are presented that proves him wrong.

[sufrommich]

36. Well said. nt

[BuyingThyme]

37. Ask you nine year old to help you explain what "it" is upthread.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

48. Doesn't

your mouse-thingee work?

Why are you acting so dumb? I mean... you are acting way stupider than usual.

[BuyingThyme]

54. Show me upthread where there is evidence that Barck Obama was a key player in the Senate today.

Or admit that you're just making it up.

[cali]

55. really? I don't see any marked difference.

same old, same old stupid.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

64. true

but this time it's special.

He is even going beyond the usual dumbness which he has embraced.

How have you been cali?

[cali]

66. pretty good, Gilligan

Winter is here, and I kinda like it. By Feb. I'll be antsy but the snow falling today looks pretty.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

69. Here

in San Diego it is hot during the day and drops to cold when the sun goes down. I have my fan on right now. We have schizophrenic weather :)

[Oceansaway]

19. ...

Howard Dean Supports Senate's Lieberman Decision, Says It Was What Obama Wanted

By Greg Sargent - November 18, 2008, 1:59PM

Howard Dean says that he's "fine" with the Senate's decision not to kick Joe Lieberman off the Homeland Security committee, because in his view it's what Barack Obama wanted.

In a phone interview with me just after the vote concluded, I asked Dean if he thought the Senate should keep Lieberman. He said that the Senate had acted "in the spirit of unification, which is what the President-elect wanted."

"He called the shots, and that's fine," Dean said.

Dean also cast efforts to remove Lieberman as "revenge," a description that will dismay many of Dean's allies in the liberal blogosphere, who maintain (as do I) that this wasn't solely about retribution.

"I think it's in every human being's heart to get revenge," Dean said, adding that the time had come to "swallow hard" and "put aside that kind of stuff."

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/11/howard_dean_supports_senates_l.php#comments

[onenote]

21. He has a lot of influence as the effective head of the Democratic Party

and by sending the message that he didn't hold any grudges and by having his surrogates -- Kerry and Durbin -- speak on lieberman's behalh, he had a signficant, if not decisive, say over how the Senate handled today's vote.

[BuyingThyme]

25. Where did you learn that Kerry and Durbin were acting as surrogates for Obama?

[onenote]

29. a little birdie up here in DC told me.

[BuyingThyme]

34. A lot of that going around.

It seems to be code-speak for "I made it up."

[onenote]

43. maybe the person who told me made it up, maybe its just their assumption

but its a senior senate staffer and someone who tends to know exactly how the game is being played up there. That doesn't mean I would bet my mortgage on it, but I wouldn't bet against it either.

[BuyingThyme]

46. Do you think anybody believes you?

I'll say it outright that I know you're lying your ass off, but please continue with your little story.

[onenote]

51. really. and you know this how. your extra-sensory perception?

Any evidence of special powers to ascertain reality has been absent from your posts, so I kinda doubt it. But, if you do have these special powers, please demosntrate them by telling us all where we can find Natalie Holloway so we can never have to read about her again.

[BuyingThyme]

57. Why don't you ask one of your high-level Senate insiders.

It's fascinating when you talk about how it really works on the inside.

[cali]

58. bwahahaha. Not a single person on this entire thread believes

a word you've spewed. Most of them are telling you what an idiot you're being. Grab a clue.

[BuyingThyme]

60. Oh, Cali don't you have somebody else to stalk?

You say the same things over and over. What time does your mommy come home?

[karynnj]

68. It seems to be highly likely as both were key surrogates

for 11 months for Kerry and longer for Durbin. That said I assume that in addition to likely being in a position where it is likely that Obama asked them to do this - it is consistent with things that at least Kerry has said for years.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

31. yes, and no. Obama holds a lot of power in ideology. if in the next 4 years

he wants to see policies move in the way he wants them to, he has to get the dems in line ideologically. Obama has no formal power in the senate however to think that he has no hold over the democrats is a bit silly

[BuyingThyme]

33. All he said last week was that he wouldn't have a problem with

Lieberman remaining in the Democratic caucus.

Now all the DU geniuses have extended that simple gesture to today's decision in the Senate.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

38. From the thousands of speeches obama gave, do you think he would want a bitter fight

over lieberman now?

[BuyingThyme]

39. No.

And?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

47. that was it. i think this lieberman thing was in line w. obama's wishes. not obama's fault

but in keeping with the ideology of our new president.

[BuyingThyme]

50. So you don't hold Obama for what the Senate Dems did?

Or do you?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

56. i think removing lieberman woudl have seemed a petty act of vengeance

and a bad way to spend political capital. i think CT will put us out of lieberman misery soon enough.

i dont blame the dems because i dont think there is blame to be had.

[BuyingThyme]

59. The Senate Dems are 100% responsible.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

65. and following the ideology of obama. nt

[onenote]

45. not "all" he said

It was also reported that he said that he held no grudges against lieberman. That's a fairly signficant statement, like it or not.

[BuyingThyme]

61. He says that about everybody.

[onenote]

62. really. so when he says it does he not mean it?

When is Obama telling the truth and when is he lying? You've got those great powers, so I'm sure you know.

[Clio the Leo]

41. At this point, he could change the rotation of the Earth if he so desired it.

All he'd have to do is snap his fingers and we'd all jump to the East .... HAPPILY! ;)

[BuyingThyme]

44. Yeah, he's in charge of Congress now.

That's what the DU geniuses believe.

[Barack_America]

53. This was a party thing, not a Senate thing.

And Obama is, of course, the leader of the Democratic party.

[onenote]

63. ding ding ding!! We have a winner!!

[Generator]

73. Yeah

And we sure as hell hope it's that way. Either Obama is the leader or he is not the leader. If he isn't-that's a worse sign. I despise all of the congress sellouts and Liebermann is a joke-but hey, if Obama can make it work-fine-maybe he is smarter than all of us. We shall see.

[AZ Criminal JD]

72. Note to BuyingThyme: You don't know what you are talking about.

[LynneSin]

74. No he doesn't but he can send a powerful message in hopes that Senate will listen

which is what he did - and btw this is Obama bringing a new brand of politics to DC.

Do I trust Lieberman? No - but I trust Barack!