Obama Will Be The Third U.S. President Born With Dual Nationality

[WeDidIt]

The first was James Buchanan. His father (James Buchanan) was a citizen of Ireland who immigrated to the United States and was naturalized. Ireland at the time was part of the British Empire. Under the force of nemo potest exuere patriam. Buchanan remained a British subject his entire life under British law and bestowed this status to his son at his son's birth. This is not dissimilar to Barack Obama's status as a British subject at his own birth. Buchanan would have been a British subject his entire life under British law.

The second was Chester Alan Arthur. Arthur, like Buchanan, was the son of an Irish immigrant (William Arthur). Like James Buchanan's father, Arthur's was also naturalized. AS was the case with Buchanan, Arthur was also a British subject under British law. Unlike Buchanan, Arthur's British nationality was rescinded with the passage of the Naturalization Act, 33 &34 Vict. c. 14 in 1870 (at age 41).

Arthur is an interesting case because when claims to his dual nationality as a smear did not work out, a new smear that he was born in Canada as opposed to Vermont was contrived. This makes Obama the second U.S. president to have unfounded smears of birth in a foreign nation presented as a reason for his ineligibility to be president.

Interesting how things work out, isn't it?

Oddly enough, it was Democrats and disaffected Republicans who smeared Arthur (a Republican) in the late 19th century.

Politics and political smears have come full circle.

[tekisui]

1. But, but.. but...

I'M CONCERNED!!!1!11!!:crazy:

[IndianaGreen]

2. Sorry, but Obama has no dual citizenship

He is a natural born American. As the Boss would say, "Born in the USA."

[WeDidIt]

4. HE was born with dual nationality

British law conferred British citizenship upon him as, when he was born, Kenya was a colony of the British empire and his father was a ctizen of Kenya (thus a British subject).

That later reverted to dual nationality between the US and Kenya when Kenya obtained independence in 1963.

At age 18 when Obama made no affirmative movement towards retaining Kenyan nationality, he lost all claims to that nationality.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

12. Same as my neice

who was born in Alabama by my brother and his German wife. Niece chose American citizenship at age 18.

[mucifer]

17. ya know I think Kenya would give the duel citizenship back if he wanted it.

They kinda like him there.

[WeDidIt]

18. Kenya is an all or nothing country

Either you're all Kenyan, or not Kenyan at all.

[Monk06]

33. No law, civil or otherwise of a foreign country confers any right or obligation

on a citizen of the US. Just because BO could take
advantage of dual citizenship due to the transfer
of sovereignty from the UK to Kenya in 1961 does not
mean he is a UK citizen. Can does not imply ought.

Barack as a US citizen enjoys the protection of the US
government. In other words the laws of foreign countries
do not apply to him or any US citizen except those
stipulated by international treaty. He cannot be made a citizen
of a foreign country by dint of his father's status or
actions.

Canada had a similar arrangement until the Repatriation
Act of 1982. Canadians and UK citizens were dual citizens
and free to immigrate freely. This is no longer true
although those with dual citizenship before 1982 can
still hold dual passports.

[Bad Thoughts]

35. Citizenship and Nationality are not equivalent

Each represents a different set of rights and privileges. Generalizing about them can be difficult as the former tends to be a matter of domestic politics in most countries, while the latter emerges from the relations between countries. A citizen is not necessarily a national, and vice-versa. In US law, citizens are nationals, but not all nationals are citizens on the basis of their "permanent allegiance to the US."

[Monk06]

37. Well if you are a US national you are also a citizen. My point is that

the fact that Barack Obama's father was both
a UK citizen and a Kenyan may confer on BO junior
UK or Kenyan citizenship but that does not effect
his status as a US national AND citizen.

That's what the RWers are trying to claim, that
BO senior's and his step dad, Soetoro's citizenship
negates his US nationality and citizenship. In the
case of Soetoro they claim his adoption eliminates his
US citizenship and replaces it with Indonesian citezenship.
This is false not just in the case of the US but any
country. You a national and a citizen of the country you
were born in.

Barack as a US citizen enjoys the protection of the US
government. In other words the laws of foreign countries
do not apply to him or any US citizen except those
stipulated by international treaty.

[LostinVA]

43. Me too -- I have dual US and Italian citizenship

I was born in the United States.

Interesting fact: even though I could be President, Senator, SCOTUS justice, etc., I would have to give up the Italian citizenship for even pretty low-level Foreign Service jobs. Weird, huh? A low-level Embassy staffer has to do that, but not high-level Feds. It's teh main reason I didn't take the FS test a few years ago.

[H2O Man]

39. Correct.

[bdamomma]

49. and Bush's Supreme Court is going to be investigating Obama's

citizenship, when will it stop??

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7948829

[Unsane]

3. I don't think this is correct.

[1620rock]

6. The US no longer recognizes duel citizenship. OB is a US citizen.

[BumRushDaShow]

9. Actually it does.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

[yardwork]

22. Yes, the U.S. recognizes dual citizenship. Lots of people have it.

If Obama's father was a citizen of Kenya when Obama was born, then Obama had dual citizenship until he was eighteen.

[mwooldri]

26. My son's a dual citizen.

British citizenship is kinda sticky... it's easy to get by descent but terribly hard to get rid of.

There's the fact that my son has to be 18 to renounce it first... secondly he has to file all kinds of forms, and pay fees.

Until he can make up his own mind, he's US and UK by default. He can later on choose to embrace both, embrace one and ignore the other, or embrace one and renounce the other.

Mark.

[Eurobabe]

27. What's a duel citizen?

Someone who challenges other people to gunfights? :rofl: :eyes:

Yes, the US allows dual citizenship. I know many people that have it. Lucky them.

[CreekDog]

36. Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr were duel citizens

[Eurobabe]

38. rofl

yes they were. :thumbsup:

[Undercurrent]

29. My daughter has dual citizenship.

American and French.

[Posteritatis]

30. Sure it does (nt)

[WritersBlock]

31. It may not recognize it, but it doesn't mind it. As long as you don't denounce your US citizenship

or perform some act that implies that you intend to denounce it, then the assumption is that you intend to remain a US citizen.


My US passport picture isn't quite as bad as the one in my British passport, but it's close.

[LostinVA]

45. It DOES recognize it

[LostinVA]

44. Wrong -- it does, and I'm living proof of it

I have dual US-Italian citizenship, and I know people who have dual German, Irish, British, etc. The US has agreements with certain countries. I legally have two passports. I can vote in both the US and Italian election.

[WeDidIt]

7. Yep, it sure is.

By the statutes of 4 Geo. II, c. 21, and 13 Geo. III, c. 21, Brtiish law made both Buchanan and Arthur British subjects at birth.

This is the same British Law that allowed impressment of Americans during the early 19th century (War of 1812 anybody?). Under British law at the time, once a British subject, always a British subject, even unto the second generation.

Britain rescinded this via the Naturalization Act, 33 &34 Vict. c. 14 in 1870.

[Unsane]

8. Not that, but your idea about Obama.

[WeDidIt]

10. Obama was born with dual nationality

Through his father.

HE could have chosen to be Kenyan instead of a US Citizen when he came of age.

I have an expatriot friend married to a German woman who lives in Munich. He is still a citizen of the U.S.. His daughter can choose to be a US citizen rather than a German citizen at the age of 18, even though she was born in Germany. His daughter was born with dual nationality.

It's not an uncommon condition.

[Unsane]

13. "instead of a US citizen"

I guess one can renounce their citizenship (?), but I presumed if one was born in the US, they remained a citizen forever, regardless of their parent's nationality.

[WeDidIt]

14. Correct, but that does not alter the condition of dual naitonality

which Obama held at birth.

Kenya does not allow for dual citizenship, thus he would have had to choose one or the other.

Other nations do allow for dual citizenship (as is the case with the U.S.) and one can hold citizenship in both nations.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

15. Not the case

My niece was born in the US in 1965, but her mother is a German national. Niece lived most of her childhood in Germany after my brother and her mother divorced--but when she turned 18, she came to the States and chose her American citizenship over her German one. This was a big deal to our family, so I know it was the case at around the same time that Obama was born.

[LostinVA]

46. I have Italian citizenship because my GGF didn't become a US citizen

until after my GF was born. Thus, all of us through that line automatically had Italian citizenship, we just had to prove it. Which was a huge pain in the ass, and took years.

[yardwork]

23. Many countries, including the U.S., allow dual citizenship, so we don't hear about this much.

Apparently Kenya is an all or nothing country, so to keep his Kenyan citizenship, Obama would have had to renounce his U.S. citizenship entirely.

[Rydz777]

5. First Lady Louisa Adams, wife of John Quincy Adams, was

born in England and did not set foot in the United States until years after their marriage (in London.) Her mother-in-law, Abigail Adams, wife of President John Adams, considered Louisa to be a "half-blood," i.e. English mother and American father, and unsuited for life in America.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

11. Interesting bit of history

thanks for sharing it!

[Solano]

16. Interesting fact

But kind of irrelevant in my view.

[WeDidIt]

19. It's relevent to the case under conference in the SCOTUS on Friday

The case brough by Leo Donofrio alleges that since Obama was born with dual citizenship, he cannot be considered a natural born citizen and must be ineligible for the presidency.

PRecedent of US presidents dictates otherwise since two have served, one who held dual citizenship while he was president.

[ecstatic]

25. Obama never went to Kenya to apply for that citizenship

so it doesn't count. It only counts if you register for it. :)

Read Kenya's constitution http://kenya.rcbowen.com/constitution/chap6.html#92

A person shall be eligible. upon making application in such manner as may be prescribed by or under an Act of Parliament. to be registered as a citizen of Kenya if. at the date of his application, one of his parents is a citizen of Kenya. and the Minister may cause any such person who so applies to be so registered:

Millions of Americans have one or more parents from another nation. That does not automatically mean that the person has exercised their right to dual citizenship (if it applies). It just means they have the option to do it, if they want to.

[dbmk]

32. Actually I think its sort of the same for the US.

If you are born outside the US, and only one of your parents are a US citizen, then they have to apply for your US citizenry.

Pretty sure I read someone here saying he had done that for his child. Might have changed though.

[loyalsister]

40. It depends on whether that parent is father or mother

If it is mother- citizenship is automatic. If it is the father - not so.

[ecstatic]

48. Yeah. Luckily he was born in the US nt

[ecstatic]

20. Meaningless technicality... I guess by that standard, I also had

the opportunity to be the citizen of another country...although I didn't know until a few minutes ago and wouldn't have accepted even if I had known.

[WeDidIt]

21. Did you even read the part about the British Law passed in 1870?

Just asking a re3event question.

And the issue is relevent to the case being held in conference in the SCOTUS on Friday. That case alleges that Obama is not a natural born citizen by virtue of his birth into dual nationality.

[elleng]

24. The law is full of

'meaningless technicalities.'

[apocalypsehow]

28. I hereby praise this thread.

Please alert my post. Thank you.

[Radical Activist]

34. Since Buchanan was the second worst President of all time

I hope the similarities end there.

[Vinca]

41. Some idiot just called the Washington Journal about Obama

being born in Africa. These people need to get a grip.

[dascientist]

42. wrong

[WeDidIt]

47. Care to prove me wrong?

Or are you just going to amke an assertion backed up with nothing?