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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 04:48 PM
Original message
Latest Pscho-Right fantasy - Obama is a moderate-Conservative . Not able to face the fact that the

election was a unequivocal thrashing of the Fascist Right wing economic (deregulation of businesses leading to CFMA 2000 and the current Credit Catastrophe and immanent very real risk of depresssion) and foreign policies (go-it-alone, screw the World - pre-emptive war, invasion - predicated on phony intelligance - of sovereign nations) seeking to fantasize victory from the jaws of crushing defeat the
Right wing is now busy spinning the fantasy that Obama is so moderate a democrat he's almost a conservative!!! LOL.

Michael Gerson in the Washington Post Closet Centrist makes rediculous statements such as :


"It is tempting for conservatives to crow -- or liberals to lament -- that Barack Obama's victory has somehow produced John McCain's administration."
Harry Potter needs a magic wand, Gerson just uses a pen to conjure substance from the aether (or so he hopes).

and then there is this incredible statement:

"Though Obama's campaign savaged the administration as incompetent and radical, Obama's personnel decisions have effectively ratified Bush's defense and economic approaches during the past few years. At the Pentagon, Obama rehired the architects of President Bush's current military strategy -- Gates, Gen. David Petraeus and Gen. Raymond Odierno. At the Treasury Department, Obama has hired one of the main architects of Bush's current economic approach."

Only an idiot ... or a conservative would assert that NOT making a precipitous change of commanders of the military in the middle of a war, was an endorsement of the previous administrations policies.

Obama must maintain continuity in Government in the midst of the two biggest problems we face (both the result of Cheney administration, Republican policies) the prevention of a complete Economic collapse and resolution of the Iraq Predicament. Removing Gates or the commanders right now, is only something an irresponsible idiot would do (like your typical Radical Right Republican). Also, neither Gates nor the military commanders SET THE Fucking policy, they were given the task of trying to make it work. (And many people on both sides of the aisle felt the appointment of Gates, and the throwing out Rumsveld, was a good move, that was necessary, in that it showed a recognition on the part of the previous administration of the need to change direction in IRAQ.)

THe same goes for the apppointment of Tim Geitner to secretary of treasury. Obama had to have someone who was very familiar with the current Wallstreet bailout. Obama doesn't have the luxury of time for anyone to get up to speed. The Obama administration, thanks to the scale of the disaster wrought by deregulation, has to hit the ground running (hell, 78% of the country would prefer it if Bush would get out now and let Obama start right now on the economoic problems). Geitner was also picked of course, as is Obama's predeliction, for his intelligence. He's recognized as being very bright. Obama has shown above all that his selections are based on qualification to do the job not ideology. THIS IS A CLEAR CHANGE IN MODUS OPERANDI FROM THE FORMER ADMINISTRATION!

Regarding the National Security Advisor appointment:

The retired Gen. Jim Jones, USMC retired, appointed National Security advisor to the incoming president, was known as one of the behind the scenes critics of Rumsfeld's handling of the Iraq war. Would one call this an endorsement of the previous administration's foreign policy? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/29/AR2006092900368_pf.html

"just before Pace was named chairman he was visited by an old friend, Marine Corps Gen. Jim Jones, the NATO commander. Jones expressed chagrin that Pace would even want to be chairman. "You're going to face a debacle and be part of the debacle in Iraq," he said. U.S. prestige was at a 50- or 75-year low in the world. He said he was so worried about Iraq and the way Rumsfeld ran things that he wondered if he himself should not resign in protest."

In Woodward's book "State of Denial" Jones is attributed to have said to his friend Gen Peter Pace, who was being considered for chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff: ""You should not be the parrot on the secretary's shoulder."


also, in Tuesday's USA Today, http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2008/12/left-behind.html Jonah Goldberg, editor at large of National Review Online - attempts to salve Conservative egos with an attempt to declare Obama's still forming team as a replay of the Clinton administration. Again, the author chooses to ignore two facts: 1) the urgency of our current situation makes experience and proven practical competence utterly important in appointees resumes, and 2) it is the guy at the top who SETS policy. Obama, as he has said, wants opinions from independent, smart, thinking people. But Unlike The Puppet which conservatives don't realize does NOT serve as a model for Democratic candidates and presidents - Obama will be making the decisions and setting the policy.

This last part is a hard one for conservatives to grasp. Goldberg asks: "who will Obama rely on?". What Goldberg doesn't understand is there are peoople who are capable of listening to opinions, advice and debate among advisors who can then make an informed decision - and then take responsibility for it. THese conservatives are such followers and responsibility dodgers (I only went along with everybody else, I didn't make the decision!) they can't seem to comprehend that an individual can listen to ideas and debate and weigh the evidence and then come up with their own decision. They are so used to group think and crowd behavior with it's comfortable distribution of responsibility (to a vanishing extent) that they can't imagine someone making a decision and taking responsibliity for it. It's an alien way of operating to these "group-think" idiots.

Conservatives make it difficult for themselves because they think in very absolute terms. With their use of word "liberal" (they wore out "pinko") they try to depict a group just as desperately ideological devoted as they are. In fact, liberals are people who look at the facts pertaining to an issue and then, if the facts support it, arrive at position on the issue. "Liberal" is a term which encompasses a range of opinions asto how one gets to a certain policy objectives. It turns out that "liberals" are pragmatic and are interested in approaches that work the best. In fact, that's what makes them "liberals". The term "liberal", as a recent poll has shown, represents goals and ideals for the country that are supported by most people in the United States. THe conservatives have been, for quite some time now, trying to sell the notion of a liberal as a group just as extreme and ideoligically rigid as they are. It's a notion they perhaps actually believe (perhaps they need to believe it), but once again, it's a belief they hold too in spite of evidence to the contrary.









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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hm. I thought that's what DUers have been whining about.
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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Like I said Liberals are not a megalithic group. There is a range of opinions there. That's the
way it should be. NOt a lot of people marching in unison.



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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. (facepalm)
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99th_Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. Well, lots of DUers apparently agree with these Right-wingers, huh?
Get over it people: America elected it's "most Liberal US Senator" to be it's first Black President.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. 1) a 3.5% swing is not an unequivocal anything. 2) since the bulk of the electorate
couldn't begin to describe any economic view at all I'll pass on ascribing a considered economic philosophy to them in any event.

Since almost all our elections are decided between the 45-yard lines it is tendentious to divine much of anything from the results.


The American people think high gas prices indicate a weak economy... so who cares what they think?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Deleted message
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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. nice to hear from the articulate, educated, right wing. always room for "informed" discussion.
:hi:
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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. I'm considering not only the vote for president but the Senate and House votes also.
Edited on Thu Dec-04-08 04:22 PM by JohnWxy
Dems picked up considerable number of seats in both houses and some hard-core Republican districts voted in Democrats. Dems not only got the Presidential (voting in the first black president - in case you didn't notice) but also winning soundly in both Senate and the House.

The 7% margin that Obama won by is significant since, let's face it, he still had to overcome a certain percentage of white voters who either refused to vote for him or voted against him because of his race.


Also, exit polls showed a strong factor in Obama's win was voter concerns about the economy and the feeling that Obama, as a Democrat would be able to help get our economy better than any McCain who supported deregulation and just about everything else Bush did in terms of the economy.


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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
6. Not a bad thing to have wet dreams
:evilgrin:
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
8. From political compass dot org


I am as left as Brian Moore but much more Libertarian/anarchist. As I remember, Hillary is a bit to the right of Obama.

Take the test to see where you are.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/
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zonmoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. I always end up in the lower left hand corner on that quiz.
Pity that there isn't some sort of sticky thread that all members are required to post their scores on similar tests.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Well, I make Kucinich look like a reactionary.
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zonmoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. For me the Kucinich is about the only tolerable democrat.
To find the candidates that I actually like I have to look at the greens and the socialists.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I'm not sure I'd want a president that agrees with me.
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agentS Donating Member (922 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
11. They can't beat him, so they're co-opting him?
:shrug:
Next they'll ask him to run on the GOP ticket in 2012!
:popcorn:
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
12. I am personally tired of trying to figure out my political philosophy, I just cant stand Bush and
and he neo cons and I detest libertarianism (do nothing ism)
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
13. The latest DLC psycho-fantasy as well: "Obama is really a centrist Third Way Democrat!"
In their wet dreams, maybe.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. I hope you're correct. I fear that Obama will be enveloped by the DLC wing of our party.
Yes, I truly hope that *my fears* are unwarranted. :hi:
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-08 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Don't you worry... remember when the DLC tried to claim him as one of their own awhile back?
Edited on Thu Dec-04-08 05:06 PM by ClarkUSA
Someone from the DLC leadership, I think it was Al From, pointedly said that Obama was a DLC member, claiming his success as
a rock-star senator and would-be presidential candidate as a continuation of the Clintonian "Third Way/New Democrat" crapola.
It caused a stir on the liberal blogs, so much so that Barack himself made a statement, saying succinctly that he was not, had
never been, and was not planning to join the DLC. Then, of course, the DLC tried laughably to slander Obama as "unelectable"
because National Journal named him "the most liberal senator" while trumpeting Hillary Clinton as the "only candidate who can
win against McCain in the general election" ostensibly because she was "experienced".


The rest, as they say, is history. :)
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-08 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
14. All this kind of shit (and half of DU posts in GDP since Nov 4) are due to 2 months of downtime.
It's almost better to not read any news or watch any until Inauguration Day, because if Obama doesn't pick a team full of Kucinich's, this will be seized upon by right wing idiots like Gerson as "he's as conservative as McCain", as well as by faux and real leftists alike.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
22. "...an idiot...or a conservative..." Mighty fine line.....nt
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
23. Sounds exactly like
about 8 or 10 people posting here.
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