How does the left get Obama over his ideological hang-ups on health care?

[John Q. Citizen]

I want three things from a comprehensive health care reform bill.

1. Affordable. Health care needs to be affordable for all.That means no more lost houses, no more bankrupt businesses because somebody gets sick. No more problem getting needed health care because of money or insurance.

2 Accessible. Any body can access the system as needed.

3. Choice of care provider for all. Everybody can go to who they want for health care.

If the unimpeded free market can deliver that then that's we should do. If a single payer fee for service system can do that, then that's what we should do. If a two tiered system of both public and private financing can do that, then two Americas is a small price to pay for a health care system that works, at least to some degree for everyone, I suppose

But to limit the debate at this point based on ideology instead of efficacy is wrong.

If the Two Americas approach is best, let it stand on it's own two feet and show us why it's better than the Oliver Twist system or the Canadian style system.

http://change.gov/agenda/health_care_agenda/

The proposal for an employment based hi bred public/private system is at the url/

I'm opposed. I think it can be proved that a tax based single payer fee for service system will provide much better outcomes for the country as a whole. Sure there will be some Insurance executives who don't like it, i know. But for the sake of the country, they will need to sacrifice. Like our soldiers have.

[bluestateguy]

1. I will be very pissed off if his health care plan is cannibalized by the Left

If the Left destroys his health care plan, and then we end up with...NOTHING.

I actually prefer single-payer too, but we are nowhere near a point where the public will support that yet. If the choice is between nothing and positive reform that expands coverage, reduces costs, but still preserves private insurance, then that's the direction we need to go in, for now.

[John Q. Citizen]

2. Hope is a sucker game . Don't hope for single payer. Only suckers hope.

And don't organize. That would be crazy and hopeless.

And hopeless cowards don't deserve a system that

1. Is Affordable

2. Is Accessible

3. Allows choice of care provider.


That's something Americans aren't worthy of and have no right to ask for.
Just take what they give you and shut up!

You don't deserve a government Social Security System either. You need privater insurance companies to invest your money in the stock market. Get with the program.

[Kitty Herder]

3. Polls show that the public will indeed support that.

http://www.davidsirota.com/2006/03/news-flash-america-wants-single-payer.html

It's the politicians, pundits, insurance companies, and pharmaceutical companies that won't support it. Unfortunately, they are the ones with the power, unless we choose to show them the power of a pissed off public. There are more of us than there are of them. We'll never get first-world health care unless we DEMAND it.

And half-way measures will only prevent progress towards that end. It allows the politicians to tell us that they already did all they could, so we should just shut up and be happy with the meatless, marrowless bone they tossed us.

Oh, and P.S.: WE ARE THE LEFT.

[EFerrari]

5. Are you lost or something?

[sandnsea]

13. I have subsidized health insurance

I just got it a year ago and am terrified the budget cuts will take it away. No it isn't perfect, but nobody turns me away or health care anymore either. I think some people just don't know what it's like to need to see a doctor and not be able to go.

[bvar22]

62. The American public IS overwhelmingly ready for single payer!

It is our elected officials who aren't ready to give up their bribes from the Insurance CEOs.

In recent polls by the Pew Research Group, the Opinion Research Corporation, the Wall Street Journal, and CBS News, the American majority has made clear how it feels. Look at how the majority feels about some of the issues that you'd think would be gospel to a real Democratic Party:

1. 65 percent (of ALL Americans, Democrats AND Republicans) say the government should guarantee health insurance for everyone -- even if it means raising taxes.

http://alternet.org/story/29788/

Over 65% of ALL Americans, Democrats & Republicans.
That is a HUGE MANDATE.
So what is holding up our elected representatives?

[EFerrari]

4. Employment based makes no sense any more.

People usually don't work for the same company for 40 years any more. Plus employment based excludes a bunch of people which in turn makes it harder for the excluded to find jobs because their health is compromised.

Plus, the insurance industry needs to be put out on their @sses. Their whole industry is based on not providing service.

[Kitty Herder]

6. Absolutely!

:yourock:

[John Q. Citizen]

7. I have come to the conclusion we need to quit arguing names and start demanding outcomes.

Let's get everything out there and on the table and determine what best suits what we want as an outcome.

I want

1. Affordable health care

2.Accessible

3. Choice of care provider.

If Obama can do that with a Two Americas System, then let's do it.

If a Single Payer can do that. let's do it.

America will never elect a black man as president and they will never get a single payer fee for service system, Yee Haw!


Yes We Can!

[EFerrari]

8. I so agree. Results, that's what we need.

:hi:

[John Q. Citizen]

9. So how do we get Obama to abandon his ideological opposition? How do we get a fair debate?

Yes We Can!

[EFerrari]

10. I don't think his problem is ideology.

We need to show him we have a constituency and we need to show him the money.

That may sound horrible but I don't mean it that way.

[John Q. Citizen]

17. We need to organize the Obama supporters and we need to canvass the entire

universe, because unlike candidate politics, issue politics actually cross personality lines and self identification.

And we need to push the three basic principles because it is a simple usable way to evaluate what otherwise quickly becomes esoteric to a lot of busy stressed out people.

outcomes happen. So let's talk about them.

[John Q. Citizen]

14. Job based is so last century. It's a drag on the economy of everyone.

Let's face it the world has changed.

If the insurance industry wants to operate like government and provide for the common welfare, why don't they just become a non-profit co-operative?

I could respect that. But not this your health care or our corporate vacation shit.

[Raineyb]

42. Spot on!

Health care is a right not a privilege for the monied or very fortunate few.

Let's not forget that even with insurance you are not protected from ending up bankrupt due to an illness. Insurance companies have been known to decide after you get sick to drop you and not cover the condition.

For profit insurance companies are an obscenity.

Regards

[sandnsea]

11. His health care plan provides all of that

So why do you say it's based on ideology instead of efficacy?

[John Q. Citizen]

19. Follow the link in the OP. He specifically rules out free market solutions as well as

a government controlled single payer system.

He calls for a hybred system of multiple public programs and private insurance fiefdoms.

They are stressing job based insurance. That's just plain debatable in terms of outcomes in my book.

I want hearings with actual data introduced. And I want everyone to be able to make their case in an unbiased forum.

[sandnsea]

20. His plan meets the criteria in your OP

YOU are the one with the rigid ideology, not Obama.

[kath]

49. Health care should NOT be linked to a job - doing so drastically limits people's freedom.

[John Q. Citizen]

22. This is from the Obama site:

"On health care reform, the American people are too often offered two extremes -- government-run health care with higher taxes or letting the insurance companies operate without rules. Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe both of these extremes are wrong, and that’s why they’ve proposed a plan that strengthens employer coverage, makes insurance companies accountable and ensures patient choice of doctor and care without government interference." http://change.gov/agenda/health_care_agenda



I have never been offered government run care with higher taxes. I would like to be. I have never been in the military and i've never been on medicaid or medicare. Have you been offered government run health care? Do Medicare recipients want off Medicare? Why does Biden and Obama think government run Medicare is wrong. How about government run CHIP? I thought it was a good thing?

Employer coverage is a Flintstones concept. It's time to get with the modern world.

Sorry sand and sea. If you believe government run Medicare, and CHIP is "WRONG" then I have to completely disagree with you and say we are on different sides.

I'm in favor of government run Medicare no matte what Obama or Biden say, and you can quote me on that. We need more, not less, government run health care.

[sandnsea]

23. You are making accusations

That ideology is more important than efficacy - when YOU are the one that is much more adherent to an ideology than Obama is.

Make your case for single payer, fine. Make it on facts. Obama does not oppose single payer out of ideology. He simply supports a plan that will pass. Single Payer Will Not Pass.

[John Q. Citizen]

24. Do you believe that Government controlled health care is "Wrong?" Obama says he does.

Why does Obama think it's "wrong?"

He doesn't say.

But, whatever Obama thinks, Medicare is government controlled health care.
CHIP is government controlled health care. So is the Veterans Administration government controlled health care.

I think Government controlled health care is right. It's a good thing, from my perspective.

You say Obama's plan is based on what will pass. So you agree it's not based on what is best for the country, but rather, on the reality of the fact that we have no power, no mandate and no chance in hell of getting what we want.

To hell with Yes We Can, I guess.

Now it's What we Can't.

[sandnsea]

25. No he doesn't say that at all

He has said if he were creating a health care plan from scratch, he would create single payer. He doesn't think there's anything "wrong" with it. Again, you're the one with the ideology problem, not Obama.

[John Q. Citizen]

27. Go to the link to Obama's site it's right there. I quote:

"Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe both of these extremes are wrong,..."

http://change.gov/agenda/health_care_agenda

"On health care reform, the American people are too often offered two extremes -- government-run health care with higher taxes or letting the insurance companies operate without rules. Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe both of these extremes are wrong, and that’s why they’ve proposed a plan that strengthens employer coverage, makes insurance companies accountable and ensures patient choice of doctor and care without government interference."

(bolding mine)

Obama says government run health care is wrong. I don't see how you can miss that.

Are you intentionally blocking it out of your mind?

[sandnsea]

35. The wrong way to go

not "wrong" as in evil the way you're describing it. It doesn't do any good to make these kind of hyperbolic attacks.

[John Q. Citizen]

37. I disagree that Medicare is the wrong way to go. I think it's a great program and govenrment run

health care works and is right. I think it's the right way to go.

And of course that's what other Obama volunteers and I will be taking to the doors.



You have a right to your opinion, but just because we may disagree doesn't mean I'm employing hyperbole.

What are you taking to the doors?

[alwysdrunk]

38. Government run healthcare IS wrong.

It's horribly inefficient, it's difficult to manage and it is very difficult to change things and fix problems within it. Why do I think this? I am an American living in the United Kingdom. I'm talking specifically about the NHS.

The NHS owns and runs all of the hospitals, employs all of the doctors and nurses as government workers.

The only people ever happy with the NHS are the health care workers after they get a big raise. THe people aren't happy with it, niether political party is happy with it. Still, the best benefit you can get from your job is private health insurance so you don't have to deal with it. I hope we never have anything close to the NHS in the USA.

I agree with your three goals and so does the President-elect and so does the majority of the country and the overwhelming majority of the Democratic Party. But full Government control is not the way to go. A hybrid approach will be the solution.

[Bluenorthwest]

39. Tell us your personal experiences with NHS

if you have any. I also lived in the UK. Of course I did not hav NHS, but I watched a friend of mine who had nary a pence to his name get major, complex life saving surgery without a thought of the money. Here he'd have died.
Who cares who owns the hospitals? Is it better for Humana to own them and refuse care based on profit? If so, be specific, how is it better? What results are better?
The only people happy with health care in the US are Insurance Companies. All of my doctors support single payer, they dispise the current system. All of them say they'd take a paycut that went along with a paper work cut and a treatment increase. That would be 5 physicians I'm talking about, of various specialities. I offer to you that if anyone but the profiteers were happy with our system, this debate would not even be occuring.
Specifically, why do you think it is important to keep profit in the health care equation? What comes from the private side that is beneficial enough to warrant the money you wish to spend in that direction? What do we get in return?
I know many Europeans and Canadians and yes, Brits, who would never chage places with an American due to health care. All of them, all of them, can buy private if they want to. No American gets that choice at all. I know many a wealthy European who uses state health insurance and nothing else. I know pysicains in Europe who are affluent and happy.
Do you meet people who say to you 'I just wish we had profit for Insurance Executives built into our health plan'? Anyone coming to the US to get away from NHS?
And gee, what are you doing over anyway? All that socialism might just get to you! I recommend getting away from your expats and meeting some working people. Listen to them.

[Raineyb]

43. A medicare for all system is not the same as the government running all the hospitals

and hiring all the doctors. The government doesn't have to hire the doctors etc. they only have to be the one to pay the bills.

Letting the insurance companies become for profit entities has to be one of the worse things that could have happened to what passes for a health care system in this country that's for sure and allowing the insurance companies to continue basically rape their "customers" is definitely not the way to go.

Regards

[superduperfarleft]

51. No one is seriously proposing anything like the NHS in the UK.

The proposals are more similar to Canadian-style single-payer.

[bornskeptic]

48. Medicare is not "government-run healthcare."

Medicare is government healthcare insurance. Government-run healthcare is what the UK has in its National Health Service, where the healthcare providers work for the government. The opponents of universal healthcare have long tried to convince the public that such a system is what universal healthcare advocates are promoting. In this quote Obama is making it clear that he opposes such a system. He is not saying that Medicare is wrong, or even that a single-payer system such as Canada's is wrong.

In the real world, as opposed to theory, neither the British or the Canadian system appears to compare favorably to multiple-insurer systems such as those of France, Germany, or the Netherlands, either in cost-effectiveness or consumer satisfaction. The Health Consumer Powerhouse, which rates European healthcare systems annually, did a study this year comparing the Canadian system to those of 29 European countries on a wide variety of criteria. In overall rankings the top five were: Austria, Netherlands, France, Switzerland and Germany. None of these countries has a single-payer system. The UK finished 17th and Canada 23rd.

http://www.fcpp.org/images/publications/5.%20Where%20does%20one%20find%20the%20most%20consumer-friendly%20healthcare.pdf

[John Q. Citizen]

54. You do realize that link is to a Canadian neocon think tank, right?

THE FRONTIER CENTRE FOR PUBLIC POLICY is a Canadian free market anti-public commons think tank.

This is what source watch has to say about it.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Frontier_Centre_for_Public_Policy

[bornskeptic]

59. I don't really care where the link is from.

The document is from the health consumer powerhouse. Try this link if you like.

http://www.healthpowerhouse.com/files/ECHCI_2008_Full_Report_final.pdf

[John Q. Citizen]

61. yes, Neocon think tank data. I say let them defend it in a public forum, Our experts will cream them

[bornskeptic]

64. HCP is a Swedish neocon think tank?

It appears that your definition of a neocon is anyone who disagrees with you. You'll need a hell of a battery of experts if you want to take on the EHCI rankings.

[John Q. Citizen]

67. It is a think tank, yes. It's a private company that collects data and sells it.

They have been around since, (gasp) 2005! Wow what a record. They view citizen as consumers.

France has fallen in the latest 2008 index.

Now the Netherlands are top dog. I guess France just wasn't what it was cracked up to be. Another shining hope, failed.

[bvar22]

63. There is a BIG problem with that argument :

"if he were creating a health care plan from scratch, he would create single payer."

The USA already has a functioning and successful single payer system UP and RUNNING.
It only needs to be expanded to cover ALL Americans. (Actually, we have two. The VA, and MediCare)

The campaign statement that we would have to build a single-payer system from scratch was disingenuous at best.

[drm604]

12. So what do we do about it?

We need a plan. How do we overcome the power of the insurance companies and pressure the new administration and legislature to do the right thing?

I think that now is the time to do this. Universal single payer would be a boon to big companies like the big 3 automakers. The pressures of the current financial crisis could be the thing that causes big companies (other than insurance) to push for this.

We'll obviously never win over the insurance companies in this argument, so how do we override them?

[Sebastian Doyle]

15. The best argument for single payer health care is actually in the headlines right now.

How many billions of dollars could the Detroit auto companies save if they didn't have to administer health care plans for their current employees and retirees?

They don't have to do that in Germany. Or Japan. Or the UK.

Those countries set up their health systems in the years following WWII. President Truman (a Democrat, of course) intended to do so here. But a Repuke "do nothing Congress" obstructed him. And then Prescott Bush introduced his "golfing buddy" Ike Eisenhower to his protege Dick Nixon and the rest was Bush Crime Family history.

[Kitty Herder]

16. Excellent point. nt

[illuminaughty]

18. You are right and this is seldom brought out.

So much talk about this crisis being the workers or the Union's fault. Nobody else has to factor health care into the price of a car. Universal healthcare works! We've been sold the lie for so long that it doesn't work.

[John Q. Citizen]

21. So how do we get what we want? We are at a point the entire country knows we are being

ripped off on health care and in a very big way. That isn't in dispute any more anywhere except the blind and insane.

So how do we arrive at the outcome we want, which as far as it goes for me is

1. Affordable

2. Accessible

3, Choice of care provider.


See I think we have an opportunity to maybe do something now, again.

[FrenchieCat]

26. Well, this will have to be coordinated to included many fronts.

A good start would be to lobby Ted Kennedy. He's the one that's more in charge than anyone else of the plan that will be getting voted on in congress.

Here's his email address: http://kennedy.senate.gov/senator/contact.cfm
and his phone numbers: DC# [phone] or MA# [phone] or [phone]

Large Organizations involved on health care issues should be contacted:
Healthcare for America - http://healthcareforamericanow.org/
aarp - https://www.aarphealthcare.com/RequestInformation/Default.aspx?SourceCode=BAC&xOver=OVER
Heath Care Reform Now http://www.healthcarereformnow.org/

Also a need to research how to prepare for the GOP and media onslaught that will attack
anything resembling single payer. Because, of course, apart from demanding what you want, it is important to prepare for the handling of the opposition in terms of marshalling public opinion if you are really serious about passing Single Payer Health care, instead of just wanting to argue about it. We can't forget Hillary's mistepts that set health care reform back 20 years.

One way of softening up the media would be to write LTTEs to major papers and local ones too!
and contacting Health Journalists with your plan of how the program would work, and why it would be cheaper and easier to do than what was proposed by the Democrats during both the primaries and the general election.

Perhaps contacting someone like Elizabeth Edwards would also be great.

Getting a doctors group involved would be added juice.

Of course, the House is very important, because without the votes,
the rest is meaningless. So I would suggest contacting your congressman,
with your letters of why Single health is important and doable and the way to go.

Also mobilizing grass root means having an actual plan to present. Folks keep referring to Dennis Kucinich and John Conyers and HR676. So maybe that's the plan to use.

Lobbying Barack Obama demanding that he provide what he didn't campaign on
would be the easiest part, if the rest is also done...and doing it through Sen. Dashle who is the one in charge of reforming health care from the executive side....as they have that whole thing happening over at change.org.

I will say is that I don't think that this is the kind of an issue has so much to do with Obama's ideology being changed. He has already, in the past, stated that Single Health care would be ideal if we had the opportunity to start from scratch. I don't think that this is the case, and neither did he. I don't think that it can be started from scratch at a time when there is no money in the kitty. Some might want to believe that this is the best time, since everything is already fucked anyways.....but we are talking about trillions just to transition into it. It means closing down insurance Companies, and reorganizing HMOs to partner with the government, I presume, etc......

Keep in mind that I currently pay $1,100 per month and then co-pay of $30 plus an addition $4,000 for Blue Cross for my daughter who is in college in MA (Where coverage is mandated and my Kaiser doesn't "do" MA.) I say this because I don't feel like our Health Care reform being sidelined because folks were asking for what would take years to implement, and got side tracked arguing for it as a "pet issue" instead of sincerely trying to get it done.

So if you are serious and not just trying to fuck with Obama (because I have followed your posts so I know you well enough), then I wish you Good luck!

[dbmk]

29. Exactly

"Because, of course, apart from demanding what you want, it is important to prepare for the handling of the opposition in terms of marshalling public opinion if you are really serious about passing Single Payer Health care, instead of just wanting to argue about it. We can't forget Hillary's mistepts that set health care reform back 20 years."

This is it in a nutshell - and why he has chosen the current path.

[John Q. Citizen]

32. It means we have to organize if we want it done. I know a lot of people said a black man couldn't

get elected president in America.

A lot of people say single payer can't happen in America.

I don't and didn't believe either one of those things that a lot of people say.

[dbmk]

46. And you need to outline a way to get public backing for it

Or fight for it. If you can do either, I don't think you will find many opponents here.

Your OP seems to suggest that Obama does not share the goals you lay out, or that his views stops him from accomplishing it. And I disagree on either.

[John Q. Citizen]

31. I'm working on Baucus because I live in MT and everything has to go through both his and

Kennedy's committees.

Local unions, citizen groups, professional groups, and others are working on the 3 principles campaign to empower regular citizens to be able to easily analyze whatever proposals are put up.

Stressing outcomes takes the BS out of the rest of the arguments. Either a proposal meets the guidelines or it doesn't. I think it's a good approach and I've had time to reflect on it from the pros and cons.

However, I want to challenge other to get back up off their asses and not just leave it up to Barack.


What HMO's? Fee for service. HMO don't meet the "Freedom to choose care provider" HMO's are insurance schemes, not deliverers of heath care.

So lets see, you pay 1100 x 12 = 13200 plus 4000 so you are paying 17000 a year? That's about 3/4 of what I make for a family of four.

You are totally being ripped off.

Let's get her done and not do it half assed. or else we will be right back where we were in a few more years. This is our time time to get it done.

Yes We Can.

[dbmk]

28. Its not "ideological hang-ups"

It is the very opposite of that.
I think he wants a single payer health care system.
I just think he goes with with what he thinks he can sell to a broader majority. Once that is in place you can start working towards an even more comprehensive change.

The unimpeded free market has shown it can't do it. And he does not think he can sell the idea of single payer to the public and their representatives - or to enough of them - to guarantee it the backing it needs down the road.

So the idea is to prove that it can be advantageous to have the government play a bigger role in that market. Once that is a reality selling single payer will be much easier.

Like in everything else he does, he is out to exactly avoid ideological hangups on getting _some_ change.

[FrenchieCat]

30. That was also my understanding......

and that of Hillary and Edwards as well as Obama.....

that the hybrid system allows to progress toward the single payer plan, like the one that federal employees get without much notice. That's why Obama has always said, if you don't want to keep the plan that you have now, then you can get the kind of plan that we as members of congress do. Guess that the ultimate would be for people to start moving away from their private plans (that so many politicians, especially the GOP, has tried to get people to believe that gives them choice) and into the government plan.

Skipping over the transition steps and going for the big enchilada all at once is actually less likely to work, as the opposition will paint it as government ran health care, etc., etc., etc.....

Plus I believe that Obama's plan is to also to create a central data base by computerizing all records, and starting some wellness programs, and revamping Bankrupcy laws. Computerizing the records to a central location sets up what will ultimately be needed to do Single Payer...but of course that will also cost beaucoup bucks.

The point would be to weaken the drug companies, and insurance companies first, then transition becomes easier and more natural.

[John Q. Citizen]

33. So we should have elected a latino? Since electing a black man is too much too fast? Or maybe

a white woman would be more electable by a majority of the citizens?

See, I didn't buy that back when and I don't buy that we can't a system that:

1. Is affordable for everyone
2. Accessible for everyone
3, Provides choice of care providers for everyone.

In fact, I think that should be a lot easier than electing a black man to the White House was. We passed Medicare back in the 60s, which is of course single payer for a pool that's 65 and older. So we already kind of passed it 45 years ago.

[FrenchieCat]

34. We didn't elect Barack because he was a Black man,

although perhaps that's how you see it.

Considering your posting history, when you start talking like this,
that's when I turn off.

Like I said, if you are only wanting to fuck with Barack,
and by extension his supporters, then that's sad.
If you are earnest about really organizing,
then you'll tone down the dumbass rethoric
and get serious and a bit less condenscending.

Sorry if I'm being that way, but I'm not trying to
get folks to join me in an endeavor right now.

[John Q. Citizen]

36. With your extremely high post count I don't doubt that you are familiar with everyone's posting

history. Much more so than me. I canvassed. A lot.

I don't believe we elected Obama because he is a black man and I never said or implied that we did. I said that many people claimed it would be impossible. Because they lacked the vision to see what is and what isn't possible.

Why not the best, when it comes to presidents or to health care plans? Americans aren't stupid.

You might even be under the impression that spending hours on DU is equivalent to spending hours knocking on doors in terms of getting a president elected or in pushing health care change. I don't see it like that.

In fact, I'm interested in communicating with people who will go canvas or hit phones and not just sit around and talk all day. I know you write emails. In fact I appreciate that you posted a link to send the campaign feedback. I made use of it, so thanks. But i'm doing more than sending feedback and chatting online.

I'm working to get our county on record with the 3 principles and the city and the local party. And we will ask Max, though who knows about Max?

But you don't own Barack. He's just as much my president as he is yours, and whether you appreciate my comments or not isn't of much concern to me. And I'm weary of your incessant need to protect Barack. It's kind of creepy. You know they say patriatism is the last refuge to which a scoundral clings..-Bob Dylan. I think he's not the fragile flower you imagine him to be. He's smart and he's tough.

But the job of the left is to move the center.

IMO Obama is wrong on his announced position on health care. He should be opening the door to all proposals so they can be examined instead of precluding certain solutions, as he does in his statement on his page. I hope Obama brings an expert into the White House who can articulate the case for Single Payer fee for service health insurance. That would be my personal hope, in the name of good government. Someone to go one TV. We know he has people inside who are close to the industry folks. Some balance would be refreshing.

And I would ask him to sign on to the 3 principles.

Meanwhile, don't let criticism of Obama get you down. You can imagine anything you like about him (I do) but if you can't forth rightly disagree with his position on anything then what good are you to him?

Barack needs a strong activist left. We got him elected in the primary and stayed with him through the general. We have earned the right to speak to him as Americans to our elected official. I'm quite sure he will be able to handle it. Even if it drives you to take mental notes on the perceived transgression. Happy mental noting!

[dbmk]

44. I don't say whether you should do anything.

What I was arguing is why Obama does what he does - and what he would ultimately like to see happen. That I do not think its "ideological hangups" holding him back.

You seem to make no distinction between what is theoretically possible from an economic perspective and what is possible from a political perspective. I think Obama is in a pretty good position to judge what is possible.

It that sense it is quite comparable to electing a black man President. Could there possibly have been a black man out there before, better for the job than anyone else? Very likely. Even so could he have been elected?

I am not saying you should not try an influence Obama towards the goal you wan't to see. I even thinks he shares them. And tries to accomplish that in the fastest way possible. Without gettin hung up on _other_ peoples ideological hangups.

[Bluenorthwest]

40. Hey Montana!

Doing the same here in Oregon. Working our elected folk- fairly easy with most of them- talking to patients and doctors. Across the board there is agreement that the insurance companies are the problem, and should not be a part of any solution.

[crispini]

41. I like this post. It's a constructive approach.

K*R

I will investigate further on his website. I think that the hearings you mention upthread are a reasonable request.

[John Q. Citizen]

56. Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate it.

[Jennicut]

45. Single payer in America? Didn't Hillary try this in 1993?

I still don't know if it will work, people's taxes will definitely have to go up and we as a country are not ready to do that. The left is but we are not the whole country. We still as a country pay a small % in taxes and people act like the government commits murder when they tax you. Public support right now is for something, anything to be done to reform the system. Its pretty crappy right now but completely overhauling it quickly will not happen even now. Hillary's approach, while idealistic and was not pragmatic and Obama wants to get something done that will work, is reasonable and that people will get behind. Its not idealogical, its practical. He will need to build up major support over time to get it overhauled, the American people really need to be covinced. It has to be a major ad campaign but he is good at that, we shall see.

[kath]

50. No, she did not, not at all. The insurance companies were very much at the table, which was a major

problem w/ her plan.

[happychatter]

52. HRC gave a single payer advocate two minutes then said "It's politically impossible"

end of story

[RichGirl]

47. As was reported yesterday....

78% of Americans approve of the decisions Obama has made thus far. That leaves 22% who apparently disapprove. Based loosely on the party break down, 15% would be republicans, and 6% would be democrats, more specifically the LEFT.

Question: Why do 6% think that they should set the agenda for the whole? If the left wants to determine what kind of healthcare system we have, they need to first get there numbers up.

[happychatter]

53. that's not specific issue based data.... far more people WANT single payer than your post implies

the problem is the corruption of congress by megapharms, insurance companies et al

NOT the American people

and certainly NOT, some marginalized minority of "far left" ists

the only rigid ideologue here is YOU

[lumberjack_jeff]

55. Until it is universal, you'll get none of your wishes.

In principle, I don't have a big objection to continuing employment-based insurance, provided:
a) everyone is compelled to be in a plan of one sort or another (those that don't choose get the public insurance and their taxes adjusted accordingly on a sliding-income scale)
b) public insurance is one of the choices on the menu for individuals to choose from.

[John Q. Citizen]

57. Won't multiple over-lapping systems be more waste than one well run system?

What if a big insurer goes bankrupt?

Do we then, at that point publicly subsidize the service and profit function of a private corporation like we are currently doing with AIG?

Wouldn't just running one single payer ourselves from the start be a lot cheaper, easier and result in better outcomes for more people?

[lumberjack_jeff]

58. Perhaps. But to get from here to there, you'll have to convince people that "have good insurance".

If public insurance is one of the options on the menu, and it is run as efficiently as medicare, it will become the defacto single payer insurance.

[John Q. Citizen]

60. At this point, i firmly believe that almost all Americans, including those with "good"

insurance, are aware that we are being systematically ripped off in the health care arena.

Coupled with the current collapse of Neocon capitalism, it seems to me that we have a unique teaching moment and we should make use of it in all haste.

I spent 3 years (1990-1993) canvasing and raising money at the doors on health care reform for Citizen Action groups. We knocked on 30 - 40 doors every evening for 51 weeks a year. Our nightly quota was 120 dollars and this was very doable, in fact canvassers would often raise two or thee times that amount

I did this in 7 states so I go to talk to tens of thousands of my fellow Americans around the country about health care reform and i got thousands of checks charges and cash donations from people who were in favor of real change, not just minor tweaks. I'm positive there are even lots more people now who want real fundamental economic/systemic change when it comes to health care.

As you are probably aware, we allow private insurance to "supplement" Medicare, and the vast majority is legalized rip-off. While it's clear that Medicare could offer more comprehensive coverage for a fraction of the cost of the private "rip off" plans, those "rip off" plans don't seem in danger of being overwhelmed by Medicare.

As leftists I see our job is to move the center. In point of fact, we should probably be running a 'Health Care on Demand" campaign and explicitly and frequently include undocumented aliens and foreign student and tourist for coverage as well. The more left we can go, the better the final legislative product will be.

(And yes, it would make strong economic and public health sense to include undocumented aliens, foreign tourists and students in the system) Would it happen? Who knows until you fight for it. It's an uphill fight. But I do think moving the center is the way to go here. Got any good ideas for sound ideas that are way too lefty to ever get passed. I'm talking left of single payer. We need a flank to tug on the middle.

[Cleita]

65. The Obama/Biden plan needs work in order for it to work efficiently.

Otherwise it will be another bloated program that benefits the corporations and still leaves the ordinary person looking for quality and accessible health care. I guess the best thing we can do is try to make him and his team look at reality, the reality of how and where it works well and how and where it works badly. A few stats like birth survival rates, and deaths from curable diseases tells you where a countries standings are and give you a good idea of how effective their health care system is. OECD provides this. You'd think if I can do this that all those Ivy league college educated advisors of his can too.

http://www.oecd.org/statsportal/0,3352,en_2825_293564_1_1_1_1_1,00.html

[leftofthedial]

66. I don't think the left has or will have much influence over any of his "hangups"