UK "Arrogant and joyless: Obama's take on Britain?"

[Laura PourMeADrink]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/ben_macintyre/article5282113.ece

From The Times
December 4, 2008

Arrogant and joyless: Obama's take on Britain?

The President-elect's writings seem to be coloured by his grandfather's brutal treatment at the hands of the colonistsBen Macintyre
More than half a century ago an African was arrested by Kenya's colonial police; he was imprisoned, tortured, and finally released two years later, a broken man. Such episodes were grimly common during the Mau Mau rebellion against British rule in Kenya, yet this sharp little shard of history has now poked above the surface again, as the story of Barack Obama's grandfather.

This is more than simply another fascinating element in Mr Obama's already colourful story. No president of modern times is so steeped in history, both America's history and his own family narrative. The past, and where he came from - Hawaii, Indonesia, Kenya, Chicago - is how Mr Obama has chosen to define himself to the American electorate.

But the story of his grandfather's treatment at the hands of the British illustrates how little we, as a country, yet know about Mr Obama's view of Britain, and the extent to which those attitudes are likely to be filtered through the prism of the past.

Recent presidents have come to office wearing the special relationship on their sleeves. George W. Bush's Anglophilia was of a familiar Republican sort, based on the belief, inherited from a father who had fought alongside the British in the war, that when the chips are down only one ally can be firmly relied on. Churchill's bust stared out from the corner of the Oval Office. When I interviewed Mr Bush, he spoke for ten, eloquent minutes about the beauty of the Scottish landscape.

Bill Clinton's affection for Britain was equally profound, though less emotional, reinforced by his time as a Rhodes scholar in Oxford. He could speak the language of Third Way Blairism without a trace of an accent. When Ronald Reagan told Parliament in 1982 that he felt “a moment of kinship and homecoming in these hallowed halls”, he spoke for most postwar presidents, and most Americans.

more at link:

[blogslut]

1. Barack Obama met his father once

I seriously doubt his father's and grandfather's views of the U.K. influence his own in any meaningful way.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

2. think the UK needs a hug

[coalition_unwilling]

3. I agree with you, but Britain owes

the world a serious reckoning for the sins of its colonialist\imperialist past in Africa and Asia, just as the US owes the world a serious reckoning for its more recent sins in the same regions.

Neither reckoning has yet been paid, imho.

N.B. Britain invented the idea of the "concentration camp" during the Boer Wars (South Africa), 40 years before the Nazis took it to industrial-era scale.

[H2O Man]

30. And Ireland.

The methods of torture that the Bush-Cheney administration embraces were used on the Irish.

[secondwind]

5. I would have to agree to disagree with you. If your grandfather

had been mistreated by, let's say, the Japanese, how would you feel towards them now?

It's like the Jewish people being forever wary of the Germans, no matter that it is almost the year 2009.



:)

[blogslut]

17. Both my grandfathers were deceased by the time I was two years old

So, having never known them nor heard their personal stories, I can honestly say that their experiences have had minimal effect on my character. They were not in my life. Much like Obama's father & grandfather.

[BeyondGeography]

4. No one is more miserable than the Brits

They take the piss out of everything. Things aren't just bad, they're a "bleedin' nightmare." They are constitutionally incapable of happinness. They love plants far more than they do people. Problem is they know too much. It makes them fascinating, tormented, and more humorous by a wide margin than any species on earth.

Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful to them on many levels. Monty Python has helped me keep my sanity. The Clash has made me feel as if I wasn't alone in the world. Their use of the language is often thrilling, hilarious and illuminating beyond anything we come up with here. But there is a lot of truth in "arrogant and joyless," whether Obama thinks that or not.

[Odin2005]

7. It's the weather, I'll bet.

[BeyondGeography]

8. That doesn't help

And it doesn't just rain, either, it "pisses down rain."

[TheBigotBasher]

22. Hmmmm. Am I on DU or Nothalfbigoted?

Oh well as we are impersonating Larry Johnson.

Americans are too extreme, in that they are always either too fat, too loud, too muscley, too gay, too skinny, too straight. They always end up being the extreme of whatever stereo type they choose. They eat too much, have no sense of irony, have no ability to spell and they smell.

And by the way as your legal system is built up on the exclusion of insanity, the declaration of independence is technically invalid so your CIC remains Her Maj.

;-)

(Honestly I love you all - really I do - even the ones from Kansas and the ones with no passport)

[BeyondGeography]

25. I love you guys...where else could this be a bestseller?

[TheBigotBasher]

26. :-)

And that was not even funny!

(Now if all this is doing is making you want to burn a Union Jack then fine. If you want to burn me, then less fine)

[BeyondGeography]

27. And, to think, that was about 100 pounds ago for Michael...

[TheBigotBasher]

28. Differences between the UK and US

We have a slice of cake



You have the cake



We drink tea. (Done properly)



You drink coffee


We drive proper cars on the correct side of the road



You drive cars you can not even afford to make any more never mind drive!.

[LeftishBrit]

6. Seems like the Times writer is looking for an excuse to raise all sorts of unlikely problems...

after all, that's what writers like him are basically paid to do.

I have seen *no* signs that Obama has any problem with the UK. And Brits are very enthusiastic about him.

It is awful about how Obama's grandfather was treated. Perhaps it is a good thing to have an American president who has some links to being on the 'wrong' side of colonialism. Maybe it would make his own attitudes less imperialist than those of Bush or Blair.

[EstimatedProphet]

9. HA!

When I interviewed Mr Bush, he spoke for ten, eloquent minutes about the beauty of the Scottish landscape.

ELOQUENT?!?

[MasonJar]

10. British colonialism was llllooooonnnnggg ago; we live in a glass house

too eviserated by hegemony to throw any stones. Obama is smart enough to know that I am confident. Why would he punish the British for something so distant, instead of enacting a worldwide diplomacy to bring America back into the fold of international accord?

[cooolandrew]

11. Barack has family in Britain too. Just a lot of speculation in that article.>.

There was an article posted a while back of when he visited one of his family members wedding in London.

[cooolandrew]

14. UK Times is conservative what this story is really about is Barack election may >

not be overly positive for the British conservatives party's regain of power.

[TheBigotBasher]

23. I do have to say that UK Conservatives

were not infected by the cancer of far rihgt Christian Evangelicals. The UK Conservative Party pretty closely represents the Democratic Party more than the Rethugs. The ironic thing is that "Socialist" !!! New Labour supported the Shrub.

[Uzybone]

12. What a lame story

I guess the writer has to write something to earn his pay.

[nxylas]

15. And remember who pays him

The Times is a Murdoch paper. Had to laugh at the bit about Bush having "a father who fought alongside the British in war". Guess he just forgot to add the words "and a grandfather who made a fortune trading with the Nazis", huh?

[JVS]

13. The UK might not beloved a friend in an era where our entire ruling class no longer descends...

from them. So be it.

[karynnj]

16. Warning - this is a Murdoch paper

It is also turning CW (and truth) on its head. It was always the Democrats who had good relations with Britain and Europe - and the Republicans, stuck in their view of American exceptionalism, who were antagonistic to the rest of the world.

With W, it ignores that most of the British hate him. In addition, his dad likely did not serve alongside the British in WWII, he fought in the Philippines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_H._W._Bush#World_War_II ) W did visit family friends in Scotland when young though. I also can't picture Bush ever being eloquent off the cuff on anything. I certainly can't imagine it on the beauty of Scottish landscape - this is a man with no known interest in nature and the environment.

As to Clinton and Blair, the sequence is wrong - Blair won after Clinton did and his "third way" was said to be a variation of Clinton's DLC positions.

The fact is that Obama has good links to the British - he was chair of the SFRC subcommittee on Europe, the Clintons have good relations with Blair and others. When Brown became PM, it was said that the American he was friendliest with was John Kerry.

I don't see a problem with Obama knowing and relating to the underside of the Empire. We are still dealing with the problems created by arbitrary lines drawn by the British in those days. The middle eastern and near eastern examples are well known - but there are lesser known examples like Sri Lanka, where some of today's problem is rooted in the Colonial days.

[Unsane]

18. good

[Jackeens]

19. The Times....Fox News....both owned by Murdoch. Just sayin'.

[Forkboy]

20. I literally just read this about ten minutes ago on Myspace.

I have a friend from over there on Myspace and he sent it to me. His comment? "Obama knows us well." :rofl:

[FrenchieCat]

21. So the "Angry Black Man" rethoric once again raises its ugly head.

:wtf:"he President-elect's writings seem to be coloured by his grandfather's brutal treatment"

What writings? :shrug:

So Obama is going to enslave not just the White People of the United States, but those in the U.K. too! Geeze, that man has got some anger management issues that need to be dealt with ASAP! :sarcasm:

[Hekate]

24. Where did they get "arrogant and joyless" from? Because O doesn't kiss ass he must thus be hostile?

It sounds like someone Over There is having a hard time wrapping his mind around America's first black president, doesn't it?

At least this part of the article rings true:

> Mr Obama's different historical legacy will not mean a change of foreign policy, but it may well
> presage a change of tone.... For British diplomats, reading President Obama will require a new
> vocabulary, and understanding a different sort of history. Not the glory of shared victory over
> evil in the Second World War, but the more complicated history of decolonisation, in which
> Britain's role was sometimes less than glorious and both sides committed horrific atrocities.

Get used to it, old friends. Barack Obama's story is as American as anyone else's -- just a different chapter.

Hekate

[senseandsensibility]

29. * spoke for ten "eloquent" minutes about the beauty of the

Scottish landscape? I don't think so. I can't take this article seriously.