MY opinion on "Gropegate"

[LostinVA]

Our computer was messed up for about a day until this afternoon, when I read all about "Gropegate," and read all of your comments on it.

My take on it: it's a bigger deal than some of you seem to think, but not as big a deal as some of you think.

You don't do things like this when you have a position like this young man does. It's unprofessional and stupid. You represent Obama wherever you go and whatever you do. Taking a photo of it? STUPID. Lesson (hopefully) learned.

No matter how some spin it on here, it is at best disrespectful to women and at worst sexist. I tend to lean more toward sexist -- because it is. It doesn't matter if it's just a cardboard cutout. How would you feel if it was Michelle Obama or Jill Biden? Your sister? Your mother? Your wife? This doesn't make PE Obama sexist, so it is not an attack on our President-Elect. I wouldn't want to have learned that one of Hillary's speechwriters say, pissed on a photo of Obama. The "boys will be boys" comments on here really leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Should he be fired? In "the real world," he probably would be. Politics isn't the real world. If Neither PE Obama or Hillary wants him fired, then he shouldn't be. And yes, HRC has a say in this. I have taught discrimination and harassment classes and have counseled employees on these issues: her opinion matters. I think the young man needs to apologize to both PE Obama and HRC. I suspect he is extremely chagrined and will toe the line -- and hopefully learned a very important professional lesson if he wants to stay in politics.

He was stupid and I feel what he did was a bit "icky," but I certainly don't think he's only a heartbeat away from raping a woman.

And, how WEIRD is it that his name is the same as an actor/writer's???

But, I REALLY feel this is between PE Obama, Hillary, and Jon Farveau, and the as usualk, teh Media is making a mountain out of a Molehill. As is some of DU.

[ErinBerin84]

1. sounds like a good assessment to me.

[polichick]

2. The two-on-one aspect and creepy actions made it look abusive imo...

...if they were both kissing her cheeks it would still be pathetic but not so icky.

[LostinVA]

3. No, I agree

If they were both kissing her, I'd just roll my eyesand think,"Geeks"!

[polichick]

4. It's a good thing the election was over when it came out...

This would've been more of a problem earlier ~ especially during the primaries.

[LostinVA]

12. Yup, it would have been a lose-lose situation for everyone

I just told Haruka that this puts PE Obama in a bind. NOT because it was Hillary, and NOT because of how it appears, but because JF was indiscreet. You can't do that in this business.

But, apparently HRC has laughed it off, so I certainly won't criticize Obama if JF is kept on.

[rvablue]

5. It's been reported that he reached out to Clinton to apologize....n/t

[LostinVA]

15. Then I give him a round of applause for that -- sincerely

Many people wouldn't do that, even to save their ass. Good for him! (I bet his mom chewed him out!!!)

[Unsane]

78. He "reached out" huh?

lmao

[Beacool]

87. Yeah, poor choice of words of the transition team.

I think that this guy has done enough "reaching out" to Hillary.

:eyes:

[ProSense]

6. The outrage is ridiculous

It would be equally ridiculous if it was a leaked photo of a male Clinton staffer planting a wet kiss on a cardboard image of Michelle Obama.

"Should he be fired? In 'the real world,' he probably would be." Nonsense.

Real word or politics, it's cardboard.

This guy is gearing up to run for Governor of VA.

This had nothing to do with cardboard.

[Midlodemocrat]

13. A kiss is a far cry from 'groping someone's breast'.

If you can't see that...well.

How many thousands of people have gone through Madame Tousaud's wax museum taking innocent pics? How many have taken and published to the web pics of themselves fellating the statues?

Right. None.

[ProSense]

17. It's still cardboard and still ridiculous.

Insert "groping' cardboard (whatever that means), still ridiculous.

[Midlodemocrat]

21. Then why do it?

They didn't cop a feel, right? That's what you're saying? So what exactly was the purpose of doing it and taking a pic?

Oh, right. To humiliate HRC.

[ProSense]

25. Who cares?

To be outraged one has to manufacture a reason: "To humiliate HRC."

Ridiculous, it's cardboard.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

31. The only ridiculous outrage I see in this thread is coming from your posts

[Midlodemocrat]

33. Seriously. What bullshit.

:puke:

[ProSense]

35. Yeah, you should puke at the thought of comparing a cardboard cutout to a noose. n/t

[Midlodemocrat]

37. My God. Are you serious?

Please say you aren't. Because if you are, you need to petition for a name change to remove the 'sense' from your nic.

And, let me guess. You're a guy, aren't you? If you're not, you're self loathing female.

[Skittles]

76. hey Midlo

should I teach you how to put stupid assholes on Ignore or should I just kick your ass?

[Midlodemocrat]

94. LOL.

Done. My list is getting hugh these days, Skittles.


:hi:

[NashVegas]

96. That's a Personally Peaceful Solution

But not always the best.

[atimetocome]

111. LOL:-)

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

38. Noose? You're the ONLY one talking about a "noose" in this thread

[ProSense]

46. Well, everything from demands that Favreau be fired to symbolism involving nooses are being

thrown around in these threads to ratchet up the outrage. It's ridiculous.

The entire episode is a non-issue. Feigned outrage doesn't change that.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

47. I'm talking about this thread, and what the hell do nooses have to do with LostinVA's thread?

Did you even READ the OP?

I think her OP was too balanced, because I think his stupid ass should be FIRED, which is what would happen in the real world.

[ProSense]

49. I read it.

It's more feigned outrage. To claim someone would be fired in "real life" for something so stupid is nonsense.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

51. There's no outrage in the OP

If I took a cardboard cutout of my boss, and my coworker and I did the same thing to it, then was stupid enough to post it on my Facebook page, I would be fired, and rightfully so.

[ProSense]

52. Hillary is not his boss.

Still dumb.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

54. Exchange "boss" with "coworker" and it still stands

[ProSense]

58. Not yet.

Still dumb, still cardboard.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

59. You're right

After a lot of thought, this post of your's made me realize that you're correct. I am wrong.

[Clintonista2]

55. Actually, she is

Mr.Favreau applied to work at the state department and was hired. Hence the "Senator Clinton is pleased to learn of Jon’s obvious interest in the State Department, and is currently reviewing his application" reply from Clinton.

[ProSense]

57. That comment was a joke, duh!

Favreau was hired a Obama's Chief Speechwriter.

[rhett o rick]

83. Doesn't surprise me that you support the OP. Seem to me like there is a group of you that always

seem to support each other. Kinda gang up on anyone that might dare disagree. Am I wrong?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

90. Oh brother

:rofl:

Yes, it isn't surprising that I support the OP. I do get into some heated arguments with the OP sometimes though on issues. She's totally wrong on RKBA and the DP.

BTW, what "group" are you talking about? The only one I can think of is the GLBT forum.

[Debi]

144. It's like a clique...

:P

[Liquorice]

69. Ohh the noose issue again. Look, sexism is a terrible problem in our

culture and in this world, just like racism. A noose is a symbol of racism, and groping a woman's image and trying to sexually humiliate her is a symnbol of sexism. You're a fool if you can't see that.

[ProSense]

71. Take it up with Hillary,

She apparently doesn't think cardboard isn't that big a deal.

[Kahuna]

80. Don't make me pull the Bill Clinton card. M'kay? Talk about humiliating

Hillary, nobody does it better and he's still around.

[Beacool]

89. You are the only one bringing up the word "noose".

But since you brought it up, and using your logic, no one should be offended at the effigy of Obama hanging from a noose. That was also carboard.

Oh, but that's different because it was racist and this is just some fun loving Obama staffers demeaning a representation of Hillary Clinton. Which of course it's perfectly acceptable because she's someone you loathe.

I for one don't think the guy should be fired, but that it was a sexist prank, yes it was.

:eyes:

[ProSense]

34. Outrage?

Calling out BS isn't outrage. Repeat, the outrage is BS.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

36. You're the only one outraged

Click here to see a well-reasoned editorial on this matter. Read it, and then, perhaps, you will be able to respond in a calmer fashion.

[Darth_Kitten]

128. Nice that someone so close to PE Obama enjoys doing weird things to cardboard.....

Wonder what his other hobbies are.

[mwei924]

88. I don't think they were strategizing to humiliate Hillary at 2 am after 8 beers.

Dude probably had no idea where his hand was at that point.

[Darth_Kitten]

129. Wow, binge drinkers, too.

Wow, one big frat house.

[mwei924]

155. For a well-built guy, 8 beers isn't really binge drinking.

[Mojorabbit]

154. That is the most ridiculous thing

I have read in a good while. As I said in another thread I have a pic of myself and another woman friend groping a cutout of Don Johnson at spring break in the early eighties. I was young and half toasted. For cripes sake let it go.

[LostinVA]

19. You want to bet he wouldn't be fired in the real world?

Even if it was just a kiss.

And, if it was a male staffer of HRC's groping Michelle's breast and another guy stuffing something by the mouth? Oh boy. They SHOULD have had their asses fired if they did that during the campaign.

And, my OP wasn't the least bit "outrageous" -- you're just putting your usual spin on it, and I'm not playing with you anymore tonight.

[ProSense]

20. "Even if it was just a kiss."

Cardboard?

Ridiculous.

[LaydeeBug]

121. Here in the REAL WORLD, those people would have been fired...BOTH of them....and you know it

It wasn't just "cardboard" either. But then, you know THAT too.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

29. It's quite obvious that you are responding to the *poster* and NOT the post

I'm not surprised.

[Skip Intro]

61. Oh come on. You know as well as I do that had it been a Clinton staffer groping a Michelle cutout

the "outrage" here would be exponentially increased, with many of those who now say "bfd" leading the charge.

Please.

These are the same people that posted thread after thread the most incredible insults to this woman for a year, runing the gamut from slamming her for getting choked up about the future of this nation to calling her a racist. Well, it's not her sincerity in question now, is it?

[Chulanowa]

86. You've invented a machine that lets you see into alternate universes?

Such as the one where the situation here is reversed, thereby allowing you to tell, without any doubt, what the outcome would be?

Oh. no, you're maying a straw man. "if situation X were situation Y, then result Z would happen, and I attack you because you would be part of result Z!" - never mind that X doesn't equal Y, thus invalidating Z.

[NashVegas]

97. Had That Been the Case

There'd be an online petition, already, calling for a new SoS candidate.

[LaydeeBug]

122. well said. nt

[Kahuna]

77. It's worse than ridiculous. It's idiotic. We have people here claiming

that what that one young man did to a cardboard cutout was disrespectful to ALL WOMEN, ALL OVER THE WORLD. :eyes: Drama queens much?

[mwei924]

91. Hate to say it, but sometimes people have a point when they say liberals are too PC.

[Bassic]

7. Ok, so I've been under a rock lately.

What are we talking about?

[LostinVA]

22. I know -- I didn't know about it until about two hours ago

[Bassic]

27. I still dont know about it. nt

[acmavm]

113. Me either. And no one will provide a link apparently.

[Bassic]

127. That has been my experience as well. nt

[last_texas_dem]

141. Ahh, you missed out on "Gropegate"?

Just one in a long line of non-scandal scandals that last for one or two news cycles and are then completely forgotten. Consider yourself lucky that it wasn't cluttering your brain (until now, that is. haha) Essentially, an Obama speechwriter at a party posed where his hand is on a cardboard cutout of Hillary Clinton's "breast" and it was posted on his Facebook page for a limited time.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/12/04/one_more_question.html

[Bassic]

149. Oh lord,

that seems rather silly as a news story. Don't know what possessed him to put that on Facebook though.

[Alexander]

8. I agree. Hillary Clinton's opinion matters.

Her opinion is that this was not offensive to her.

Therefore I will trust Hillary Clinton over the tens of her supporters here who are outraged over this.

[Midlodemocrat]

9. Beyond stupid to do it and photograph it.

And, now that I know what you're talking about, don't worry about responding to my PM.

In MY professional capacity, which is hardly as high profile as Barack Obama's, I take great care when surrounded by influential and famous people so that nothing I say or do is taken out of context. Everyone in my firm does. It is one of the hallmarks of our profession. Discretion. Professional behavior. Decorum.

This looks like two frat boys having a wee of a time at the expense of someone. Okay, so let's ditch the semantics and say they didn't 'grope' her. The intention was certainly to make her look foolish and it sucks.

She's a respected politician regardless of what some on this site think, but frankly, if it had been an anonymous female, I would fee the same way. The cardboard cutouts are designed for fun, to be sure, but I'm not seeing any with women pretending to *ahem* service any significant male politicians.

[Captain Hilts]

10. Good to see HRC says 'no harm, no foul'. nt

[Midlodemocrat]

16. What else could she say? Seriously?

Not questioning you, but that is a pretty offensive pic. I would be offended and I don't offend easily. I can't imagine Hillary coming out and saying that she was horribly offended. She wouldn't want to admit it and she doesn't want to further divide an already divided Democractic party.

[LostinVA]

24. Yeah -- that's what Haruka said

She also said,"Hillary's nicer than me, because I would have asked for his ass to eb fired."

[Captain Hilts]

65. In these cases, what is said is sometimes more important than what you feel. nt

[TomInTib]

11. To me, the far dumber stunt was posting the effing pic on his Facebook thing.

Screwing around with an effigy of one's enemy is just something that happens.

Posting the pic is either stupid, arrogant, juvenile, or all-of-the-above.

[polichick]

14. Yep - that's pretty dumb alright.

[LostinVA]

26. Whoa -- I didn't know that until right now!

He is a talented young man, and has a great career in politics if he can learn DISCRETION.

[TomInTib]

39. I was blown away.

This guy is, obviously, very smart.

But not too bright.

[LostinVA]

40. I'm shocked at what some people post on their Facebook page

[NashVegas]

98. It's One of the Offensive Aspects of Online Culture

When I was into online gaming, 4-5 of the more excitable men on my ICQ list would mass message "I just made so and so my BITCH," meaning they'd make a huge hit on that player. I found it very offensive and it was one of the reasons why I dropped out of the scene.

Lo and behold, the gaming industry has discovered the female percentage of their base has shrunk considerably from what it was 10 years ago.

Cut to this year, one of the things many women here and elsewhere protested about Obama supporters all year was the drive to make HC his "bitch," so to speak. The picture of the cut-out just confirms it, when you consider this guy was putting words in Obama's mouth.

[TomInTib]

132. Point well made, Crisco.

The infusion of rap, skate-punk trash-talk leaves me cold.

Actually, it pisses me off. I won't have it around me. When my sons were younger and living at home, I would not allow that sort of language in our house. While I have always held myself in the upper echelon of Users of Profanity, I cannot abide with talk that degrades women. After all, my Dear Mother is in that fold.

Tom

[dbmk]

116. Not sure he posted it

Think someone else posted it and tagged it with his name, thereby linking it to his Facebook account.

[mtnsnake]

18. Finally, some sanity on DU

Thank you for posting such a thoughtful and meaningful post about this. I couldn't agree more with your take on it. :thumbsup:

[LostinVA]

42. Ha -- thanks!

[LostinVA]

44. Ha -- thanks!

[Clintonista2]

23. If the cardboard cutout had been of Michelle Obama, and the one groping had been a Clinton staffer..

We know how DU would be reacting. Regardless, the fact that he apologized and Clinton accepted certainly shaped my view on this one.

[LostinVA]

28. Yup, as I said, I think the decision was probbaly ultimately hers

She is known as a team player, and this proves it.

[polichick]

30. I hope Hillary gives him a few withering looks just for fun!

[LostinVA]

32. I'm betting his boss' wife will, too!

[ccharles000]

41. I agree

[Kahuna]

43. I'm a woman. It wasn't disrepectful to me. It was disrespectful to Hillary only....

and she'll get over it, I'm sure.

[LostinVA]

45. We can agree to disagree on that, because I think it was disrespectful

[Kahuna]

73. I will be so happy when people stop trying to decide what is disrepectful

to "all people." Give me a break. You don't get to decide what is disrespectful to me. You just don't.

[NashVegas]

99. And Yet, You Get To Decide What's Not Disrespectful?

Pot meet kettle.

[Kahuna]

103. No. I get to decide what is not disrespectful to *me.* People need

to stop trying to decide what outrages others as a whole. It's enought to pay attention to what outrages them personally.

[NashVegas]

104. "It Was Disrespectful to Hillary Only"

Sure looks like you were deciding what shouldn't outrage others.

[Balderdash]

148. I gotta laug at you!

She said she would agree to disagree, thereby allowing you to freaking agree or disagree. You just wanna be mad. LOL

[Midlodemocrat]

48. I'm a woman. It WAS disrespectful to me because it was taken

SOLELY to humiliate Hillary by groping her breast. Would the men here who are stating "It's no big deal" feel that way if I had posted a pic of a Hillary staffer pretending to suck off Barack?

Don't think so.

Game. Set. Match.

[Kahuna]

75. I don't internalize what is done to Hillary to me. I think

it's stupid and a waste of time for anybody else to do so. I never could understand how what someone does to you whether it's sexist or whatever is disrespectful to *me.* That's like saying every embarrasing thing a woman does embarrasses me. Or every idiot thing a black person does, reflects on me. It doesn't. And for you to claim what someone does to Hillary reflects on me is immature in my personal opinion.
On edit: GAME, SET MATCH!

[NashVegas]

105. I Don't Really Think That Would Be An Equivalent Pic

More like if it was a Hillary staffer pretending to *snip,* if you know what I'm saying?

[lukasahero]

151. If the person doing the sucking was female then, no

I don't think the men here would feel that way. (I say this given all the "why didn't my teacher look like that" comments when teacher/student sex is at issue.)

HOWEVER, how might they feel if it was a male Clinton staffer - or two?

I think the point that is being overlooked is that, as you note, this was done specifically to humiliate Hillary but also, it was done using a very specifically gender-based behavior.

It's a nice reminder that, no matter the level of achievement, a woman can always be reduced to plaything for party boys.

[Beacool]

92. So, I guess that as long as you are not disrespected it's A-OK

if someone disrespects other women?

As a feminist, I stand up for ALL women, even those I don't agree with like Palin. Sexism is NOT OK under any circumstance. It has been a disturbing pattern throughout this election how quickly any whiff of racism was loudly condemned, but sexism was given a pass and a wink.

[Upton]

50. I think the whole episode is funny

both the actual cardboard groping and the way some of you are taking this so seriously. Lets try to lighten up, Democrats are supposed to have a sense of humor, aren't they?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

53. I'm sorry, but it was sexist and in poor taste, it's not funny

And, working for the President Elect, one is required to have more discretion than most people.

[Upton]

56. Newsflash: That was not actually Hillary

or a real woman, it was a cardboard likeness.. you and some others appear at lot more troubled by it than Clinton herself.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

60. Newsflash: It's still legally sexual harassment

Read Midlodemocrat's post. How else was Hillary supposed to react?

[ProSense]

63. Bullshit. n/t

[alwysdrunk]

72. Horseshit

It's legally nothing.

[NashVegas]

106. That's Incorrect

If your co-workers circulated a photo of themselves with a depiction of you, in sexual situations or any kind of gender-derogative situation, you'd have a sexual harassment case on your hands.

[alwysdrunk]

130. That doesn't apply here

They weren't co-workers, they were an employee of and the head of two competing independent organizations.

[alwysdrunk]

131. AND he didn't cirulate it

Or even post it himself. One of his friends posted it on his page and tagged Jon Favreau.

[mwei924]

74. What?!!

So I'd get sued if I made a dirty comment to an oil painting?

[Kahuna]

79. Yes! And in doing so, that would also be a personal insult to me as a woman..

:sarcasm: Some people need to get a life.

[shayes51]

135. Nope, not funny.

[NYC_SKP]

62. There's a difference between "sexist" and "sexual".....this was not sexist...

Unless one wants to define anything that offends them in the slightest involving a man and a cardboard cutout or other image of a woman as "sexist".

Like the overuse of the word, "verbal abuse", the overuse of the terms "sexist" and "sexism" really weaken them and it's a disservice to legitimate victims when these things really occur.

Stupid, pranky, naughty, sexual, immature, yes.

But not sexist, puhleeeze.

That is all.

Except Edited to add:
My thoughts are not directed toward the OP, with which I substantially agree, but to those who are unusually upset with the turd's behavior and the media, so I mostly agree with LostinVA.

[bridgit]

64. Yep, all of that; it certainly flutters in the face of 'hope & change' imo

[BeyondGeography]

66. Basically, if you were for Hillary, it bothers you more than you would like to admit

If you were always for Obama, it embarasses you more than you would like to admit.

The End.

[bridgit]

67. .......good read!!

:thumbsup:

[Hippo_Tron]

68. This is merely a bad side effect of the internet era

When Hillay Clinton was Favreau's age this shit happened all the time except that nobody ever saw it because there was no internet.

[NashVegas]

100. Exactly ... And There Was Another Element

Everybody would have known the photo was in very poor taste and that you shouldn't try to call attention to it.

[mwei924]

70. He won't be working anywhere near Hillary though.

He's the speechwriter. He helps Obama with speeches; I assume he won't need to make daily trips to Foggy Bottom to do his job.

And you just have to understand that young people today do this kind of stuff. You won't find many 20-somethings who don't have pictures of them chugging or some other stupid crap. I guess for older folks who aren't used to the facebook, myspace era-- it seems like a really big deal. But honestly, that's not even a particularly crazy picture. There are a lot of WAY worse things he could've been doing in that picture, and it wouldn't even be a surprise to most people my age.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

82. She does know that "young people today" do this kind of stuff

Believe me.

However, there's a difference between the average recent college grad posting drunken pictures and a young speech writer working for the PRESIDENT ELECT posting pictures of mock sexual harassment of the future Secretary of State. People working for the president should have some degree of discretion, or they need to find another line of work.

[mwei924]

84. It's a cutout! What's the big deal? That pic is actually pretty tame.

Yes, he NOW works for the President-Elect. That doesn't mean he wasn't just a regular young guy sometimes. And young guys tend to have these things on facebook (often times much worse looking).

[FloridaJudy]

81. Proves what I've always believed

The combination of alcohol, a digital camera and Facebook is rarely a good idea.

And never, never post something on the Internet that you would be embarrassed to see one the front page of the newspaper. The same one your mother reads.

[LostinVA]

93. Best post of the thread!

[Life Long Dem]

85. Yeah, what can I say that I haven't already said?

[elkston]

95. I repeat again: Expressing desire for a woman is not wrong if you are man

Hillary is soon the be SOS, but she is also a woman. Sometimes it is hard to turn off that switch if you are man. Please have some sympathy.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

101. What about expressing desire for a woman, if you're a woman?

These boys weren't expressing desire, btw.

[NashVegas]

102. I Very Much Doubt That's Expressing a Sexual Desire

I think it's safe to assume the desire being expressed was more along the lines of the desire to humiliate.

[Lilith Velkor]

152. I wouldn't be so sure about that

She's not an unattractive woman, and I heard more than a few, um, "expressions of desire" from young (and not so young) men during the primaries.

There could be an unacknowledged desire to humiliate in there, I suppose, but it was mainly along the lines of, "I'd treat her right, and not cheat like Bill."

I'm still not sure what to make of it. :shrug:

[mtnsnake]

107. If that's how you think men should express desire for women

then you must have some difficult times when it comes to meeting the opposite sex if you're a male seeking new relationships with women. lol

[elkston]

112. Sometimes a clear signal works better than subtle innuendo (n/t)

[Debi]

108. This was blasted all over this morning's Today Show just in case

EVERYONE in America hadn't seen it. :eyes:

Unfortunately we all must assume that all our actions - even ones we think are private and with friends - could become public and behave accordingly.

[LostinVA]

109. I've seen YOUR Facebook page, Missy

I hope you're not running for office anytime soon.

[Debi]

114. Let's be clear....

The man I'm canoodling with on my FB page is MY HUSBAND!!! :P




and no...I won't tell you where my hand is or why he's smiling :evilgrin:

[LostinVA]

115. That's what YOU say!

He looks like Biden, to me.

[Debi]

118. Can you believe it...I have NOT ONE photo of me and Biden

:cry: I was always the one behind the camera!

Wow...did we get off topic. Go spackle some damn walls and quit bugging the DU crowd.

[LostinVA]

119. Haruka is doing that right now -- I'm getting ready to go patch the driveway -- IN THE SNOW

Then vacuum out the pellet stove.

[Debi]

133. Oh you two are so domestic....

almost like an OLD married couple...:P

[LostinVA]

140. Well, one of us is, at least!

[atimetocome]

110. He was wrong and I hope he grows up.

[Bjorn Against]

117. I don't disagree with anything the OP said, I just don't think this is a real issue...

When I say it is not a real issue I am talking specifically about Farveau groping the cardboard cutout, Favreau's actions may have been stupid but there are far more serious issues that our world faces. Now sexism in general is one of those serious issues that we should talk be talking about, but we need to talk about it in a broader social context as when we get too hung up on famous individuals we lose sight of the fact that this goes far beyond Farveau.

This should be an issue between Hillary and Farveau as well as their families, but I trust Hillary to deal with this situation in an appropriate way and I don't think the rest of us need to get involved in what is essentially a personal issue.

[LaydeeBug]

120. I completely agree with the OP but it DOES give me SOME pause...

that the other person in that photo is wearing a shirt that CLEARLY says, "Obama Staff".

This is embarrassing for them.

And it should be.

And for those claiming false outrage on outrage I state here and now...there is NO WAY this would have flown were it Clinton staffers or McCain staffers doing the EXACT same thing to a cut out of Michelle Obama. It's not a big deal...but then again it is. The OP could not be more correct or cogent.

[mtnsnake]

123. Well said!

Also, the biggest problem is that this photo was flaunted on his Facebook page for everyone to see until it was removed from his page two hours later. That alone speaks volumes about his judgment.

[LostinVA]

138. Right -- it isn't a big deal but it is

Very indiscreet and stupid and embarrassing, for PE Obama even more than HRC, I think.

Thank you for this post, for it's how I meant my OP.I was off here for about a day, and we never watch the news on TV (ugh), so I popped on here yesterday and read the nuttiest things about this incident from all sides. Some posters seem to think this is a "primary" thing, when it isn't at all. I want the new Administration to be teh best since FDR's!

[tigereye]

124. good assessment

I think one question is judgment in allowing his actions to be photographed, you would think someone in that position would be more careful.



If Hillary wasn't worried about it, it will blow over, and he can be a bit sadder, but wiser about doing anything that will end up in the media, and more savvy about immature high-jinks in general.

[Jakes Progress]

125. It shouldn't be between Obama, Clinton, and the dolt.

The dolt should just quit. He needs to apologize profusely, promise to learn to grow up, and step aside. Not quitting is just further evidence of his juvenility and his unfitness for the position. His job is to make Obama look good. He obviously doesn't know how to do that.

His first act to prove the sincerity of his action would be to quit.

[LostinVA]

139. I think he should do te eright thing and fall on his sword

Because that's how it's done in politics -- no one is ever fired, or at least rarely. I could never be in politics -- you have to be PERFECT. Pictures of the mess in my car would be on teh front page of the "National Inquirer" and that would be it.

[NashVegas]

147. You Only Have to Be Perfect If You're a Dem

Republicans ride out all manner of sex scandals. Larry Craig anyone?

[mkultra]

126. I would like to discuss why you feel this is sexist.

Could you please elaborate on your opinion in this regard. On the surface, i would say that this was disrespectful and inconsiderate to Hillary. Beyond that its foggy for me. I would like to hear your opinion.

I know we have clashed before but i wish to discuss this without acrimony.

Thanks

[Hutzpa]

134. This is the thing that gets on my nerve

with some of you, you don't know when to let something go.

This guy is a young man and he was having fun with his friends
with a CARDBOARD for crying out loud, A FUCKIN CARDBOARD
and here you are playing the ignorant/innoscence (ignoramous)meme
about not being on DU or taking the day off just so you can
continually stir the pot.

This is divisive in all orders.


Let it go all ready!


:mad:

[LostinVA]

136. My OP wasn't the least bit divisive as you well know, and I'd like you to tell em how it is?

And, I wasn't on fucking DU the whole fucking day, so you can stop calling me a liar right now, because YOU are the fucking little shit stirrer by claiming this, aren't you? Yeah, you are. I was not on DU at all from about 1PM Friday to yesterday afternoon, I didn't read it, I did nothing AS YOU WELL FUCKING KNOW.

"Boys will boys" is a disgusting excuse. And, huess what? I was a ripper in college, but I wasn't teh PE's speechwriter. Let's get a cardboard cutout of your mom, sister, wigfe, whomever and do the same thing. Yeah, you bet your ass you'd be singing a different tune. If yous ay you wouldn't, YOU are a liar.,


Some of you people on here just cannot fucking let it go.

Go be a jerk to someone else, because I'm putting your divisive ass on IGNORE. YOU are responding to teh poster and not the post, and you know it. My OP was balanced and totally not divisive.

[Name removed]

145. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

137. First, you obviously didn't read the OP, and are responding to the POSTER, not the post

Secondly, she wasn't on DU from Friday morning until sometime yesterday afternoon, because my laptop's logic board is fucked up, and the computer wouldn't start. Now, if you can find a way to post on DU from home with no computer and no internet capable cell phone, I'm all ears, because that would be quite nifty.

Thirdly, I think you need to let some things go. The primaries are over, and DU is no place for PUMAS.

[Debi]

142. But your posting on the thread didn't bump it or anything now did it?

When did opinions get outlawed at DU?

[Hutzpa]

146. Who said anything about opinions

being outlaw...<looking around> I don't see anyone saying
that do I?? :shrug:

[mtnsnake]

143. That he was acting up with his friends is NOT the issue

The issue is that he flaunted the pictures on his Facebook page for everyone in the universe to see. The pics were on for hours until finally getting pulled from his page. That he posted them online shows a severe lack of judgment on his part. This is why Obama has made it clear that anyone applying for jobs in his administration better not have anything online, including emails, that could serve to embarrass him as President.

[alwysdrunk]

150. They were never on his page

They were on a friends page and we was 'tagged' in the photo. That's the way I heard it anyway. He didn't flaunt the picture. He didn't post it and then email the link to his whole address book. He didn't post it himself and didn't know it was up until later.

[qwlauren35]

153. FIRED???? You've GOT to be kidding.

Single incident, no humans touched. Incredibly offensive, written warning.

But I can't see anyone getting fired for it.

[Neshanic]

156. Just in case nobody remembered. IT'S CARDBOARD! Jesus what a bunch of moral pearl clutchers.