A very fine idea - "Oath of Ofice - use Constitution"

[tbyg52]

Suggestion for our soon-to-be ( :woohoo: ) President:

Instead of placing your hand on a bible, place your hand on the US Constitution when you pledge to uphold the office of the president. This will illustrate separation of church and state, as well as confirming your adherence to the Constitution.

You may comment and/or vote for it here:
http://www.change.org/ideas/view/oath_of_ofice_-_use_constitution

Apparently the top ten ideas will be delivered on Inauguration Day, which is admittedly a little late for this idea to be implemented. And I don't think it is the *most* important thing to be done, of course. Still, it would be a wonderful symbolic gesture.

Note that this is change.org, not change.gov:

What is Ideas for Change in America?
Ideas for Change in America is a citizen-driven effort to identify and create momentum around the best ideas for how the Obama Administration and Congress can turn the broad call for "change" across the country into specific policies. You can help by submitting an idea for how you would change America, discussing ideas with others, and/or voting for your favorites

[Kutjara]

1. It's a great idea, and I'd extend it to oathtaking in court, too.

Quite why defendants and witnesses have to make a tacit proclamation of religious faith to be permitted to testify in court is beyond my meager mind's ability to fathom. Oh yes, I know you can take a "civil oath," but all that does is ensure that the fundie contingent in the room (which can be quite large, depending on where you are) will hate you immediately.

Make all court oaths civil and the problem goes away.

[Occam Bandage]

2. This is kinda silly, though, if memory serves, John Quincy Adams did something similar.

I think it was the US Code of Laws, but I might just be making that up. Anyway, I don't think that this is a tradition Obama will be breaking.

[tbyg52]

3. I don't find it silly at all

After all, that same Constitution says: "no religious test shall be required as a qualification to any public office."

[Occam Bandage]

18. So?

Seriously: so? What does that have to do with Obama choosing to use or not to use a Bible? Keep in mind that he's a devout Christian.

[tbyg52]

36. So I'd like to encourage him (and other elected officials)

to consider taking the oath of a *Constitutional* office on the *Constitution*, not a religious document.

I don't think he or much of anyone else will, because it might well be political suicide, but that doesn't mean I don't wish the world as it is allowed it to be so. Our government is secular, by wish of the Founders.

[tridim]

4. Excellent idea, but if Obama puts his hand on anything but the bible..

He'll catch hell in the media for weeks. "Is Obama a Satanist? We'll find out after the break."

[BuyingThyme]

5. Good.

[tbyg52]

6. Yeah, realistically, you're probably right about that.

Maybe next time....! ;)

[democrattotheend]

13. Exactly. Plus, I don't think that's what he wants to do

If he were not religious it might make sense, but he is a practicing Christian and faith is an important part of his life. Asking him not to use a bible to take the oath of office is as wrong as expecting someone who is not religious and does not believe in G-d to take the oath on the Bible.

[dbmk]

14. Technically not, I would say.

In the first case you would follow the spirit of the Constitution he is swearing to protect. In the second case you would do the exact opposite.
If the state is serious about separation of church and state, it should not be an afront to anyone to ask them to swear to uphold and defend the constitution without the support of or reference to any piece of literature - but the constitution.

[Clio the Leo]

20. Yep, no point in stirring up unnecessary BS and ......

... since he's a Christian and all .... I know, I know, some of us like to ignore that fact but he is .... he has no reason NOT to.

What I think we on the left fail to realize is that if we (Christians who are also liberals/progressives) would embrace our faith like those on the right do, we might actually convince some of them that not only is God no respecter of persons ... but he is also no respecter of party. The Republicans have taken Christianity hostage and it's about time we liberate it. ;)

[WinkyDink]

7. Let's go with tradition this time.

[FailureToCommunicate]

19. Obama could use a bible that had other significance, like the

bible used in the Scopes trial or for the Amistad case, or...
That would carry a message repeated by the media during the Inaugural coverage.
(For questions like this, always ask: what would Pres. Jed Bartlet do?

[Clio the Leo]

21. I'm gonna miss Pres. Bartlet .....

... I've enjoyed having him as my leader for the last 8 years. :)

[AllentownJake]

24. Lincoln's Bible

It's in the Library of congress.

The symbolism would be great.

I posted a link downthread.

[rvablue]

8. Nope. I vote for the bible. Do we really need to fuel the crackpot conspriracy

nutjobs?

I know, undoubtedly, that I'll get flamed for saying this.

But that's how I feel........

[tyne]

9. I think it's a great idea...

The reason the crackpots have any say at all is because we shine light on them by paying attention to them.

It's time we say, "sorry crackpots, we've tried to consider your feelings, but, that got us to where we are Dec 2008...we've got to move on...enough's enough".

[Pab Sungenis]

11. How about the Constitution on top of the Bible?

Take it on both.

Herbert Hoover, by the way, took the Affirmation of Office on the Constitution, as he was a devout Quaker.

[rvablue]

12. That sounds like an excellent idea and

thanks for the presidential trivia....I love learning stuff like that.

[Golden Raisin]

15. You know the crackpots are going to take

their own oaths that whatever bible Obama uses it's really the Koran in disguise because they all KNOW he's secretly a Muslim. :sarcasm:

[rvablue]

16. No doubt and it will be pure comedy reading all about it on FR on Jan. 21st!

[LWolf]

10. It's a great idea. Obama would never do it.

He's not going to alienate his fellow xtians who WANT our nation to be ruled "under god."

[GoneOffShore]

17. However, don't you think the discussion should at least be started?

I remember my dad being very upset when the words "under god" were inserted into the Pledge of Allegiance.

I'd like us to get further away from the concept that it is somehow wrong to not use "The Bible" for anything from swearing to tell the truth to oath's of office.


By the way, I added my vote to the proposition on the Change.org site and I urge others to do the same.

(edited for dumb mistake)

[Clio the Leo]

22. I think we're missing the point that it's a personal decision....

.... there is nothing in the Constitution that mandates what the President should be sworn in on. It's a matter of tradition. Just as someone who does not want to take an oath on the Bible before appearing as a witness may choose not to, the President can do the same.

When Rahm Emanuel takes the oath in 2016 (hey, a girl can dream cant she?) I would not expect him to swear on a Bible containing the New Testament.

It's the same concept. I would no more insist that Rahmmy swear on St. Matthew anymore than I would insist that Barack NOT swear on the Bible if that's what he wanted to do.

It's up to each man ..... or Hillary .... to decide for his or herself.

[tbyg52]

37. >>someone who does not want to take an oath on the Bible ... may choose not to

Oh yeah, and guess what kind of looks and thoughts they'd get. There's a post upthread about that.

[LWolf]

27. We should be having the conversation. Absolutely.

That includes adding our names to the petition.

I'm saying that I believe that Obama will turn a deaf ear to this one.

When the conversation becomes loud enough that it can no longer be ignored, there will be politicians who WILL listen. Probably not those who, like Obama, ran a faith-based campaign.

[AllentownJake]

23. He should use this Bible

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/treasures/trt040.html

The Bible Lincoln was sworn in on.

The symbolism would be great on so many levels.

[FailureToCommunicate]

32. Yes!, great suggestion! Send it to Obama's people. But of course you have.

[ShadowLiberal]

25. Unfortunately doing it on anything other then a bible would cause contraversy

Remember the fuss people made about the first Muslim member of congress being sworn in on the Koran?

Chances are those same religious fanatics would protest Obama not using a bible to be sworn in, and then the people who spread the "Obama is a secret Muslim" campaign would probably cite that as evidence that Obama is a Muslim.

[Posteritatis]

26. Break out the weird and use a Vancouver phone book or something

Watch the pundits struggle to understand that.

[harun]

28. Horrible idea.

[GoneOffShore]

29. Explain why, please.

On what level is it "horrible idea".

On a personal level to you? From a public relations standpoint?

How?

[harun]

31. On many levels

Politically it is a loser. As much as people on DU think Democrats are owned by atheists they are light years from it. Which is good for me because if they were I wouldn't have anything to do with them.

The Constitution's strength comes from the support it gets from people. Not because of its infallibility. It is an excellent social contract for everyone to agree to and respect each others rights and liberties.

The Right continually tries to paint the Left as egregious godless sinners who are planning to force their godlessness on everyone like the Soviets used to. This plays right in to these fears.

(Note: This isn't because I think the bible is infallible, or because I want to promote Christianity, I am a Muslim.)

[Renew Deal]

30. This doesn't make sense.

When you take an oath it is a oath to God. It's not called an affirmation of office. Besides that, it would be creepy if Obama did this.

[tbyg52]

34. "Creepy"? To swear to uphold the Constitution *on* the Constitution? Ooooookaaaay.....

Edited to add: Uh if it's an "oath to God," how come the Constitution says "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office".....?

[No Elephants]

39. The oath of office was not supposed to be an oath to God. Washington took it upon himself

to add "so help me God" and every President since has followed Washington's lead. Very unfortunate on the part of GW, in my view, because the Constitution spelled out what the oath was supposed to be. By changing it, Washinton put himself above the Constitutional Convention and all the Americans of the time who had voted to ratify the Constitution.

[Hippo_Tron]

33. Obama can place or not place his hand on whatever he choosees

Also I'm fairly sure that "so help me god" is optional.

[vanderBeth]

35. What's wrong with using your own bible?

[No Elephants]

40. The overarching issue is whether the Bible should be used at all, not whose Bible to use.

[tbyg52]

38. OK, so here's another idea in the same vein,

except this one is even more important, and it's #3.
http://www.change.org/ideas/view/restore_separation_of_church_state