After Spitzer , Siegelman, Scooter Libby, OJ (wtf you say?) and now Blagojevich

[FrenchieCat]

I'm getting a bit uncomfortable about how our justice system seems to work nowdays, and how we the people react to revelations, and how so much more than should be is tried in the press.

Although each name is attached to very different cases, they are all faulty in their own way.

Spitzer, who was about to blow the wistle on the Sub-prime mess, was one of very few to be caught up in some kind of dragnet on prostitution that still seems somewhat shaky at best on how it all was brought to light. He was gone before anyone could say Boo! Was it wire taps that caught him up, or money transfers, or what exactly? It just seemed so specific to him, as I didn't notice any other rich person fingered when he was...but I can't imagine him being the only one doing what he was doing. Certainly, the hipocracy he was involved with is outrageous, but still all in all, it had an orchestrated feel to it specific to him. (perhaps I'm totally all wet on this one).

Siegelman was put away without nary a problem, but the fact that there was nary a problem and was allowed to happen is very worrisome to me.

Scooter Libby was in fact charged and convicted, but it is odd how he failed to take anyone else down with him. Really odd, in fact. I believe that full justice was not served in this case....and that the executive branch used its power to stop it at their door.

O.J., regardless of whether he was guilty of murder, was tried and convicted of an entirely different crime, that normally, even in Las Vegas would not have gotten the kind of sentence that he ended up with. He was in fact, IMO, tried for his prior crimes.....and even Jeff Toobin has said this. While the majority of the world may believe that OJ got away with murder, still, he was acquitted....but many folks thinks that it was OK in this case how things turned out, because this was OJ. That's not really how things are supposed to go.

Now Blagojevich was tried in the media yesterday, IMO. I'm not saying that he isn't an horrible guy, but I have a lot of questions of how he was demonized by Filzgerald, right there at the microphone. Heck even Chicago politics as a whole was trashed. Personally, I didn't realize that the law worked that way. There has been no trial, just charges made. Again, I'm no defender of this dumbass who called my President a motherfucker....but still, I'm quite uncomfortable of how the law is being applied.

Perhaps I'm totally all wet, but I dont feel very comfortable that Justice in this country makes as much sense as I would like these days. I hope that President Obama can bring things to a different place...cause right now, I'm not feeling that confident in our justice system.

I might be crazy though. But I wanted to say what I felt in the pit of my stomach tonight....even in realizing that there have been other cases like Abramhoff, Cunningham and Stevens that were prosecuted....but still.

[midnight]

1. The two cases that seem very strange to me are the Spitzer and

Sieglman cases.

[elleng]

2. I unnerstand your concern, Frenchie,

but think Fitz did a good job explaining blago circumstances and charges; I'm ok with that.

but NOT with spitzer, which went the way bushies wanted, as did the others (not oj.)

Ours is a system like others; people either make it work or don't.

[AllentownJake]

4. Spitzer caused his own undoing

I worked with Anti-Money Laundering in a financial institution. His wire transfers would have been flagged and sent to Treasury by any bank, insurance company, or brokerage firm if he was a regular citizen. Public officials get even more scrutiny in their banking transactions.

For a smart guy...he certainly wasn't smart in hiding what he was doing financially.

[ContraBass Black]

13. Spitzer was responsible for the law that made tracking laundered money easier.

If he hadn't done such a good job in his previous position, he might not have been caught.

[AllentownJake]

14. I'm not sure if that is true

The Patriot act expanded the universe of financial institutions that had to report SARs and reports to FINCEN but the Money Laundering laws have been in effect with banks for years.

As Attorney General of NY and his brief time as Govenor I'm not sure he had any ability to influence the federal laws on money laundering.

[AllentownJake]

3. Siegelman and Libby were odd cases

OJ was controlled by a state prosecuter. OJ was stupid and yes, if he hadn't been tried for killing two people he probably would be serving 3 years instead of most likley 9 (if he behaves himself in jail)

I used to work with Anti-Money Laundering Laws. The reason Spitzer got caught the way he did was because he was a public official moving large amounts of money around. Most financial institutions but extra monitoring on public officials as part of the AML program. His transactions were red flagged via SARs (Suspicous Activity Reports). If he had decided to use a method other than wire transfers to move the money he probably would have avoided detection. I don't buy there was any conspiracy to get Spitzer. Spitzer's monetary transactions guarenteed he was going to recieve a federal wiretap and as I proved to another poster last night the money transactions came before the wire taps. The rest is crazy left wing conspiracist which are just as bad as crazy RW conspiracist.

Blago was about to appoint a Senator and I believe they moved on him to prevent having his eventual pick either serve because they purchased the seat or be tainted by being picked by Blago. With Blago they have tapes of him. A case is alot different when the prosecuter has tapes...and the prosecuter is alot more arrogant.

I believe that Siegelman is innocent and that Libby knew he would never serve a day in jail going into trial. However with Spitzer and Blago they were screaming catch me.

[npincus]

5. Read the complaint. Blago is not being demonized- his own words

are there on the printed page, and Fitz expressed righteous outrage at blatant, disgusting violation of the public trust. The bastard witheld $8 million from a pediatric hospital because he wsn't "paid"... no, there is no invention or exaggeration here. Nor is there benefit of the doubt. These are his own words.

[LynneSin]

6. Blagojevich is a crook and should be tossed in jail.

He's been caught on tape and for all the crooked things he has done the sale of Obama's Senate seat brings great shame to our party.

Now people will question Peterson (NY) and Minner (DE) about their appointments if some 'money was exchanged' (DE has been appointed and they gave it to the person Joe requested).

[chimpymustgo]

7. Frenchie, you are raising some IMPORTANT points. We need to slow down and think about some of them.

All of these cases are pungent, and do not speak well of our justice system - especially this on:

-snip-
Scooter Libby was in fact charged and convicted, but it is odd how he failed to take anyone else down with him. Really odd, in fact. I believe that full justice was not served in this case....and that the executive branch used its power to stop it at their door.
-snip-

[Shiver]

10. Scooter Libby was brought up on Obstruction of Justice.

That's why no one else went down with him - the evidence was made to no longer exist. As much as some people may want to, you can't bring anyone down without hard evidence. Justice was obstructed by Libby, so justice could not be obtained by Fitz.

There's a bit more to it of course, but you have to keep in mind what Obstruction of Justice means...

[IsItJustMe]

8. You, like I, smell something very funny at our departments of so called justice.

[Clio the Leo]

9. OJ was convicted for the wrong cime but the sentencing was fair...

.... granted, he was charged with some outrageous stuff. (Did you HEAR the Prosecution's rationale for charging him with kidnapping! Unbelievable.) And I think it's more than clear the jury had an agenda (only way he could have gotten a fair trial would have been to have it in Iceland.)

But I expected him to get a LOT more time than he did. I think the Judge was fair with what she had to decide on.

Poor OJ.

[chimpymustgo]

18. How can the sentencing be fair, if, as you say, he was convicted for the wrong crime.

The case is utter bullshit.

And these other ones raise a lot of questions.

[TankLV]

23. OJ is an idiot - possibly mentally sick...but this whole thing was revenge for not finding him

guilty of murder...of that I have no doubt...

talk to anybody and they are glad they finally got him on SOMETHING...

this is NOT a good thing...

this whole thing was revenge for what the public wanted in the murder trial, pure and simple...

of that I have no doubts...

[ProSense]

11. What's the difference between Blagojevich and Stevens?

Some in the media are desperately trying to hype a link between Obama and Blagojevich despite the fact that the relationship betweeen the two was not a close or friendly one.

Why was there no media hyperventilating over the link between convicted felon Ted Stevens and Sarah Palin, who was actually accused of abusing power and whose tie to Stevens is easily established?

Welcome McBush's potential VP pick: Sarah Palin

Annals of Tight Vetting

In fact, some in the GOP are trying to peg Palin as the new face of the Party.

[Cha]

16. Good point about stevens and palin

and should be brought to the "media's" corrupt attention.

[FrenchieCat]

12. And how come Candidate #4 is not being sought after,

as he was on tape...and yet Candidate #5 who wasn't on tape, only talk of him by Blago, appears to be a wanted man?

[genna]

15. If you are looking for a sign, I'd say you should watch Sen. Leahy and AJ Holder

What they uncover should tell you whether your feeling is leading you in the right direction.


We won't know until some tapes, documents, and indictments turn up.

[rvablue]

17. I don't think that Fitzgerald "demonized" Blagojevich yesterday, I think he gave a very

straightforward account of a despicable crime. The wiretapping transcripts gave a clear account that Blago wanted CASH for either himself or his wife for that seat. And the reason Fitz had to come out and explain himself was because he had to act very fast in order to deter a crime that could have put a historical crack in our democracy.

And as far as OJ goes, the egotistical psychotic jerk could have copped to the crime he was so obviously guilty of and gotten a plea deal that probably would have amounted to a year or two in jail. But once again, in his arrogant and privileged way, he had to waste taxpayer money and resources to try get off again. No sympathy there, sorry.

And I have little doubt that the whole Seigelman thing will be remedied once the Shrub and his corrupt administration have exited the White House.

[bridgit]

19. You've ticked off some characters no doubt, some clearly so, and you're right *now* Blagojevich...

This 'trying in the media' stuff is classic 'sand in the eyes' Fitzpatrick. Innocent face, button down shirt no cuff links, legalistic matter-of-fact (if he didn't have those smaller-esque republican eyes they'd be pie-eyed) deamenor...but some parts of it turn my stomach too,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7968553&mesg_id=7968989

I've been waiting for the RW to generate an aura within which PE Obama appears to have been splashed with impropriety and Blagojevich provided them, by way of *his* specialized mania; just that very moment in time. So I don't like it for several reasons. Though when one studies the ways Machiavellian matters take place, it can be seen that cases are formed from angles that seem indisputable. Blago had to go, that much is a given. But the timing of this thing can only lend aid to the RW and has done just that if you tune into any one of their dump sites. The fact that Matthews & KO are talking about it lends similar comfort to the RW. Call *me* all wet, but that was imo the desired, maximum on many fronts as now the wheels are grinding. They did not do not care if the world is crumbling...they only care about power, how to rest it from the hands of others, and give it to their war profiteers.

You're not all wet, Frenchie, we've all been splashed with this high stakes drama over a low grade political hack, Blago (such a cute little nick-name). They've been cultivating that field for some time, its the timing of Fitzpatrick, bush's DOJ, and the RW itself that for me remains suspect.

[shimmergal]

20. The timing does seem to

generate some realy worrisome spin-off efffects.

1. Coming just a day after Blago's "freeze" on state dealings with Bank of America, and considering Spitzer's quick public demise, it sends the message: try to rein in the banks at your peril.

2. The timing's likely to delay the appt. of a successor to Obama Senate seat. "Tainted" vs. "vacant" -- I'm not sure which is worse, but neither bodes well for the Dems if someone isn't there by the start of 2009.

3. There's the possibility of a cloud of "guilt by association" over Obama before he even takes office as President. We DON't need this!

Regardless of Blago's guilt or otherwise, what are we going to do to minimize this peripheral damage?

[bridgit]

22. Oh yes, if no other mission accomplished: tainted v. vacant, a mere day after frozen dealings w/BofA

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4616630&mesg_id=4622684

Please at your convenience, review Octafish' reply as well & thanks, regarding these matters, there's little about these times we live in that isn't perilous and hasn't already been shocked into one unsettling doctrine after another; these RW/neocon players are not phased in the least at the prospect of walking right through the timid:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4616630&mesg_id=4626341

[Top Cat]

21. kick