After 5 years of being under investigation, why no complaints on BLAGOJEVICH till now?

[FrenchieCat]

Just wondering why it would take 5 years, and then when ROD BLAGOJEVICH does get arrested, it is based on conversations he had starting in October of this year?

What Am I missing? :shrug:

[glowing]

1. Exactly.. I'm not so sure the Gov is the end but the beginning.

[tekisui]

2. I want to know why anyone would talk to someone who was under

such an investigation.

[FrenchieCat]

4. I want to know why he was under investigation to begin with?

and why it would take 5 years to actually come up with something to actually have to file a complaint on?

It doesn't make any real sense.

Either you've got something or you don't.

Again, I must be missing something about our criminal justice system. :shrug:

[tekisui]

8. The part with selling the Senate seat is just the most sensational.

He also was threatening the CHicago Tribune, as well as other charges. Why the trigger was pulled now rather than say, months ago, or months from now? I don't know. BUt, however the investigation started, it was clearly needed. He is a crooked man.

[onenote]

10. as i understand it, the investigation started with allegations of bribery

in the awarding of contracts for restaurant leases at a Illinois tollway "oasis". Other reports of bribery continued to emerge and they were folded into the investigation as were kickback allegations. It is in the nature of these investigations for them to continue for extended periods as the authorities build the strongest case possible. Its not a question of whether you have something or not, its whether, on balance, you can build a stronger case by continuing the investigation or not.

[SteveM]

18. The Government may have been prompted by the senate seat vacancy...

Not defending or condemning, but speculating on why the government acted when it did. With a senate vacancy coming up, the feds may have been prompted to act before the stink really spread; I mean, this guy was acting like a monkey at the San Antonio Zoo: auto-induced erotica in and for the public.

[rvablue]

55. Maybe you should ask that question of PE Obama

he was all for the timely and righteous ethics crackdown in the Illinois Government.

He pressed for reforms.

And it sent the corrupt Blagojevich into a tail spin that he wasn't going to be able to rip people off in his "$25,000 club" anymore.

Thank you PE Obama for not participating and going beyond that tell help call out criminals like Blago!!!!!!!!!

[Ian David]

3. Rumor is that Rahm Emanuel blew the whistle on him. n/t

[ben_meyers]

5. It does make one wonder

Why pull the trigger now? Why not wait it out and follow the money or influence peddling to its ultimate conclusion? Who was being protected here, there seems to be no reason for the sudden move.

[FrenchieCat]

12. I disagree that there was no need for movement....

as Blago was going to be naming a Senator to replace Obama.

I just don't get how anyone that crooked would be investigated for 5 years,
and only based on very recent activity be arrested.

Could it be that they had nothing on him that was worth anything until just now?

If so, why would anyone be investigated for that long without any real wrongdoing predating a month ago as part of yesterday's complaint?

[ben_meyers]

17. So Blago names a replacement,

And Fitz jumps out of the bushes and says "wait a minute, both of these people are dirty, here is the proof", quashing the appointment and putting away another crook at the same time.

I think somebody is being protected, maybe a big city mayor?

[CK_John]

6. Maybe the real target was Jesse J jr. n/t

[onenote]

7. because that is the nature of these sorts of investigations

Prosecutors spend years building these cases. I'm quite sure that Fitzpatrick would've preferred not to act at this time, but the circumstances made it imperative. If he had not acted and Blago had named someone to the Senate and then the charges became public as part of a bigger case filed down the road, the legitimacy of the person holding the senate seat would have been cast into doubt. Law enforcement officials often spend years working on a case but only finally act when the harm of some imminent action outweighs the benefits of building on the case they have.

[ben_meyers]

11. What circumstances? Why not wait until the real crime was

committed, money changed hands or quid pro quo occurred? I would like to know who ordered Fitz to proceed post haste with this.

[onenote]

14. because the consequences would be too grave

If they waited til Blago named a senator, they would be creating an unnecessary crisis with regard to that senate seat. If they waited until the tribune fired someone, they would be unnecessarily causing that person significant harm.

If the feds know that someone is conspiring to rob a bank, they don't necessarily wait until the bank is robbed before stepping in. The situation is always one of balance -- what are the costs and benefits of going public with the charges as weighed against the cost/benefits of letting the string play out further.

Here, correctly imo, the conclusion was that it was neceessary to step in and shut down Blago now.

[DevonRex]

33. Damn. I should have read your post first. That's what I just said below.

If he has enough to indict now, why not do it before Blago can cause irreparable harm.

[nemo137]

9. Ryan was under investigation for even longer.

Something like 8 years, since the allegations go back to his time as Sec State. That's the nature of big, complicated corruption cases.

[grantcart]

13. Federal Prosecutors are well known for letting investigations go on and on for two reasons

1) They don't prosecute cases they only show up for cases that have 5 smoking guns. Federal Prosecutors have a conviction rate of 99% and they will only make a move when they know they have a conviction.

2) As long as no one is getting hurt they will continue to set the trap to get as many people as possible.


The reason that they moved quickly now? They didn't want to see anyone take the bait and actually try and pay off Bago. I think we owe Fitzpatrick a huge thank you for pulling the plug and stopping it before seeing if anyone would take the bait and actually try and pay him off.

[leftstreet]

15. If they want "as many people as possible" why not wait til someone took the bait?

:shrug:

[DevonRex]

34. Can you imagine what would have happened if Blago had actually appointed

someone that took the bait? That would have been catastrophic for the citizens of Illinois. They should not have to pay the price simply to get one more person indicted.

There is a limit to how far and how long an operation will go.

[grantcart]

39. what if some wealthy benefactor got involved in discussions and mistakenly

thought that he was helping out PE Obama by taking care of Blago so that Obama's person got the seat. It would be a complete disaster for the new administration and this is, I think, the reason that Fitzgerald moved quickly, and I am glad he did.

The benefactor wouldn't have to even have to agree but simply enter into discussions or answer a phone call and it would look suspicious.

[ben_meyers]

16. " we owe Fitzpatrick a huge thank you"?

What an absolutely odd thing to say. We owe Fitz thanks for not finding out who might be corrupted in this matter? This wasn't a DOJ sting operation, it was an investigation into dirty political dealings, who are you afraid might have been "trapped"?

[FrenchieCat]

19. Who is afraid?

Since you ask the question as though you know the answer. :shrug:

[ben_meyers]

25. Oh, I don't know. Possibly a big city mayor?

n/t

[tekisui]

20. Any Dem with a potentially great future.

I am relived the plug was pulled when it was. Anyone thinking of paying for the Senate seat jsut got a big warning and will hopefully play it straight from now on.

I have no idea who would have taken the bait, and I don't want to know. At this point, it is a thought crime on their part, at worse.

[onenote]

21. we do owe him a thank you, albeit for a different reason, imo

If they had allowed this to play out to the point where Blago actually named someone to fill Obama's seat, we might well know that person is dirty (although may be not) but we'd also have a mess in terms of having to replace that person. Plus, there were other things going on at the same time, such as the effort to get the tribune to fire people. Those people would not have been dirty, but they would've been harmed. So the right thing was to shut down Blago now, not after he had gone any further.

[grantcart]

38. "who might be corrupted" that is the definition of entrapment

somebody, even an independent person who is trying to help out, who would not normally be involved in something illegal or dishonest could move past the acceptable "of course if you appoint me I will appreciate it and look forward to working with you in the future" to the "pay this to get that".

The law isn't supposed to wait around and see who might have a weak moment and fuck themselves up but go after guys like Blago who are dirty through and through and are raping the system, so yes I am glad that he pulled the plug now to save somebody from needlessly ruining their lives.

[McCamy Taylor]

22. They just set up Whitewater II.

Fitz is not the angel everyone thinks he is. He has just acted exactly like Ken Starr, convicting a man in public. The press is all over....Obama. Blagojevich has been under constant wiretaps forever and they finally caught him demanding that his Senate pick help him make...what? Political capital? Real hard cash? You can not tell from what they have released. The first is kosher. The second is not.

They plan to get the governor to name names. Each name will be released to the press which will describe how the Name and Obama know each other complete with lots of pictures. Illinois is already being described as the Most Corrupt State in the nation based upon this one arrest, which is a joke. Texas is and will always be the most corrupt state in the nation (see my latest journal entry). That is why the Bush administration is so corrupt. Eventually, the GOP will call for a special prosecutor to get to the bottom of all that corruption that we keep hearing about on the news that is related to Obama---just like Whitewater.

People, I hate to see DU aiding and abetting the Republicans on this one. The criminals are the Bush DOJ with their wiretaps without probable cause, their partisan investigations, their habit of conducting trials in the press which are later not backed up by evidence. Even when Obama cleans house at the DOJ, the same neanderthals will still be there at the FBI, and just like under Bill Clinton, they will be out there trying to undermine Obama. Especially the racists at the FBI.

My advice is question every aspect of this case. Why did Fitz call this the worst corruption he had ever seen when it is small beans compared to what the Bush administration has done? Why the media circus? Because it is related to Obama, that is why.

It must be nipped in the bud now, or it will never stop, and four years from now Republicans will be talking about the climate of corruption associated with the Obamas.

[FrenchieCat]

26. I hear you. I believe that you may be correct.

So what should we do about this.

[nemo137]

27. No, "they" didn't.

Blago has been under investigation before Obama started running. This isn't a time for koolaid drinking, this is a time to be glad that Blago didn't get to put some jackass in the Senate and then have this blow up at the midterms. Fitz called it the worst corruption because it is big and blatant, and he can probably get a conviction. If he'd called the Plame mess the biggest corruption he'd ever seen, then got cockblocked by Scooter, he'd have looked like a jackass, and he knew it. This isn't the opening salvo in the next war. I'm expecting dirty tricks and sniping for the next 4-8 years, but I don't think that this is it.

[saracat]

28. What nonsense. Have you any idea how many Illinois officials are corrupt and how mant Governors have

served time in the last 35 years? Quite a number. Chicago in particular has a well derserved reputation for corruption. It is common knowledge that Mayor Daly senior manipulated the vote to get JFK elected. It only reson Nixon didn't protest is that he was guilty of the same in California. It is also commom knowledge that no one is allowed to run for office unless someone sts them up. Illinois politicians have to be "sent" by someone. This has been on going for decades. It is about time that someone stepped up to the plate.

This has little to do with Obama. Obama even wants Fitz to stay on. Corruption is the same whether it originates with Dems or Republicans , and we don't deserve a pass on this either.And if JJ Jr. is involved, he needs to be treated like anyone else.

Fitz was absolutely spot on in stopping this NOW. Would you rather this took place "after" the Inaugeration, when it would be a disaster for Obama? What if JJ Jr, or anyone else "ponied up" Can you imagine the fallout?

Durbin has the right idea. They need a special election to move beyong this. and was sworn in?

[merh]

37. I think you are off base.

Go look at the press release, the DOJ obtained court orders to have the wire taps.

What that tells me is someone went to them with their concerns about Blago's strong arm tactics (I believe it was the press - they say they were asked by the DOJ to keep quiet about what they knew about the going ons).

The criminals are the Bush DOJ with their wiretaps without probable cause, ... They had probable cause, they had court orders

What concerns me about this case is not the DOJ as usual but that the taint of these allegations will smear those who have been prosecuted for their politics, men like Seigelman.

That is much more disturbing than this with Blago, if they criminal complaint is accurate relative to the conversations they have on tape, the man needs to leave office and take a plea. We don't need corrupt politicians in office, not dems or repubs.

[varelse]

52. I saw Lou Dobbs this afternoon on CNN

Banners up behind the talking head (I didn't get the audio, was at the gym)

"Obama and the Governor"

"The State of Corruption"

Lots of footage of Jesse Jackson (senator #5?).

Yes. You might just be on to something.

[TankLV]

56. DING DING DING! We have a winner!

This is beginning JUST LIKE the beginning of Clinton's term...

Hope Obama is faithful to his wife...and has a good zipper on his pants...

[WeDidIt]

23. Blagojevich is probably teh STUPIDEST political criminal in history

which bodes very ill for the Department of Justice and Patrick Fitzgerald.

[Orsino]

24. Perhaps Balgojevich stopped pretending.

Perhaps in previous years he managed not to incriminate himself so clearly.

[goodhue]

29. Because of Individual A

59. Since October 2008, the FBI has conducted multiple interviews with Individual
A, who is an associate of ROD BLAGOJEVICH and has assisted in campaign fundraising
for ROD BLAGOJEVICH.16 Individual A has advised agents that he/she has been present
for and participated in multiple conversations with ROD BLAGOJEVICH in recent months
regarding campaign fundraising. According to Individual A, ROD BLAGOJEVICH and
Fundrasier A, who is the chairman of Friends of Blagojevich, are making a strong push to
raise campaign funds before a new state ethics law goes into effect on January 1, 2009, that
will prohibit any individual or entity with existing state contracts of more than $50,000 from
contributing to entities like Friends of Blagojevich.

60. In response to questions posed by agents, Individual A has described efforts
by ROD BLAGOJEVICH and Fundrasier A to obtain campaign contributions from state
contractors by the end of the year. Specifically, Individual A advised that ROD
BLAGOJEVICH is seeking a total of approximately $2.5 million in campaign contributions
by the end of the year, principally from or through individuals identified on a list maintained
by Friends of Blagojevich. The FBI has obtained a copy of that list, which identifies
individuals and entities targeted for campaign contributions, as well as amounts sought from
those individuals and entities. A comparison of the names and entities on that list with
information available from public sources and FBI investigative files reflects that numerous
of the individuals and entities on that list have state contracts or have received public benefits
conferred by ROD BLAGOJEVICH, such as appointments to positions in state government.

61. In response to questions, Individual A has advised agents of incidents involving
efforts by ROD BLAGOJEVICH to obtain campaign contributions in connection with his
official actions as Governor. Three such incidents are related below.

[whippo]

30. Blago found out about the taping from a news story in the Trib.

He started to try and "undo" deals that were in the works, and he started to work on his defense.

Fitz had to make his move.

[olkaz]

31. Many of us have been complaining a long time.

Our opinion wasn't respected, to say the least.

[DevonRex]

32. Better that it happen BEFORE he could taint the appointee and the party.

Imagine what a spectacle that would be. A sitting democratic Senator could have faced indictment, had Blago's attempts to sell the seat been successful.

Just a guess, but Fitz just might have been attempting to avoid further upheaval caused by Blago.

[rvablue]

35. That's exactly what Fitz said yesterday

that he had to act now because the appointment was imminent.

He also said he is not releasing everything right now, so the reasons for arresting and charging Blago might grow in the coming weeks and months as he puts the rest of his case together.

[happychatter]

36. I want to believe that Rahm dropped a dime

Just because

[DevonRex]

40. Yeah. Me too. That makes a great story. nt

[RepublicanElephant]

41. blago punishes bank of america, obama has major announcement with al gore.

both stories buried by the arrest story.

[Uzybone]

42. The senate seat was the tipping point

if they had moved at any other time this year, this board would have been full of outrage regarding Fitz trying to smear Obama and had the election to McCain.

There really is no "good" time to bust a crook. I think they moved now because Blago was on the verse of cashing in his chips (Obamas senate seat). How much worse would it have been if a sitting Democratic senator was caught up under Blago.

[riderinthestorm]

43. And please note: this is NOT an indictment. It's a complaint.

Not an insignificant difference....

After 5 years, why couldn't Fitz indict Blago? Why the rush to STOP Blago's appt with a "complaint"? You'd think after this much investigating, there's be SOMETHING more substantial for indictment. But nope. A complaint.

Serious? Sure. But not at the same level.

This smells.

[onenote]

47. you answered your own question, in case you didn't realize it

The first set of wiretaps upon which the complaint was based were authorized at the end of October. The second set at the end of November. In case you've forgotten, Obama's seat just recently became vacant -- really really recently. And the conversations that form the basis of the complaint took place as recently as Friday. So it simply was not feasible to take the case before a grand jury and get an indictment given the need for expeditious action to stop blago from acting on his conspiracies.

If you check into it, you'll find that corruption probes almost always last for years before charges are brought. The probe that brought down George Ryan was ongoing for even longer than the one against blago. Those who know about these things (including a former US attorney that works at the firm I used to be with) say that Fitz almost certainly would've preferred not to act now, but that the imminent harm of having a us senator appointed when a subsequent indictment would call into the legitimacy of that appointment was a compelling reason to act now rather than wait.

And a complaint actually is typically more detailed than an indictment. Chances are that there could be, down the road, additional charges brought against blago in the form of an indictment for some of the crap he pulled earlier. But when you're investigating someone for tax fraud and you hear them on tape put out a hit on someone, you don't wait for the hit to be carried out. You stop the most immiment criminal act.

Nothing smells here at all. Except blago.

[riderinthestorm]

50. So you have insider information that Blago was going to appt someone this week?

Otherwise there was more than ample time to get this before a grand jury. They meet all week.

Everything I have heard (overtly and covertly) indicates Blago was still working the deal and wasn't going to be rushed, in fact, he wasn't going to name anyone for at least another 3 weeks.

What "imminent" harm was going to happen? Other than a severe tarnishing of the appointee's name? While that is bad, it's not so uber-awful that Fitz would be compelled to salvage... Jan Schakowsky and her rep? Sorry, I just don't think Fitz operates like that.

He STOPPED Blago from actually performing the pay for play. WTF?

[onenote]

58. I don't, but apparently Fitz was concerned enough that it was immiment

There still will be a grand jury indictment. The complaint was needed in order to get a warrant for blago's arrest in order to stop him cold before he acted.

[babylonsister]

44. Because of this

Written by legal eagle/writer Scott Turow

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/opinion/10turow.html

snip//


In his news conference Tuesday, Mr. Fitzgerald indicated that he hadn’t planned to indict Governor Blagojevich until next spring, meaning that the prosecutor was going to wait until his own fate was decided. Instead, with wiretap evidence piling up that showed that Mr. Blagojevich was intent on selling the Obama seat in exchange for a substantial personal benefit, like a high-paying job for himself or his wife, Mr. Fitzgerald was forced to make the arrest. He decided that he could not even wait for the grand jury investigating Mr. Blagojevich to meet on Thursday and indict him.

Bypassing the grand jury and proceeding through a criminal complaint instead effectively puts the case against Mr. Blagojevich on the express route. Mr. Fitzgerald will now have only 20 days to either give the governor a preliminary hearing — which would amount to free discovery for his defense lawyer — or return an indictment. Given Mr. Fitzgerald’s frank appeal for information from the public at his news conference, it’s obvious that his case is not fully buttoned up, and that Mr. Blagojevich forced the prosecutor’s hand.

[OwnedByFerrets]

45. Because Repugs are masters at manipulating the system.

[JI7]

46. better it happened after the election and before he made the appointment

which would hurt whoever he appointed and give Repubicans a chance to take the seat.

[Tatiana]

48. As many here have pointed out, the imminent appointment of the Obama's Senate seat

forced Fitzgerald's hand. He was acting in the best interests of the people of the state of Illinois.

Personally, I believe Blago was going to appoint himself to the seat, which would have been a huge motherfreaking disaster.

[Top Cat]

49. Witch hunt in play with this latest bullshit....

[Venceremos]

51. It's funny

that the people screaming "witch hunt" are not from Illinois. Those of us who have lived under Blagojevich know better. There's no witch hunt here, and I'm confident his trial will reveal he is among the worst of corrupt Illinois politicians.

[TankLV]

57. It does not have to be mutually exclusive.

Blags is a thoroughly corrupt pol AND the repukes get a good foundation to begin Whitewater II...

Do not underestimate the intentions of repukes to try damage a good dem whichever way they can...

There are too many repukes already calling for obama's impeachment - and not just on FR...

[bridgit]

53. A fair question, why indeed?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7968553&mesg_id=7968989

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7969075&mesg_id=7971584

[burythehatchet]

54. Obama wanted him brought down before he took down more good Dems with him.

It ain't rocket science.

[leftofthedial]

59. maybe he's less corrupt than the screamers here claim...

[Bucky]

60. You're missing that they had stuff on Blago in October, but didn't bust him till December

The paranoia-based presumption of political bias on the part of partisan Republicans is much stronger than the paranoia-based presumption of political bias that you're trying to project onto this case.

Fitzgerald has no history of injecting partisanship into investigations of corrupt officials. The fact that Blago was auctioning off the senate seat right now might suggest the urgency of Fitz having to act. Had he waited another week, the Dems might have a tainted senator in their caucus. That certainly would have been more in the Republicans' interest.