Some people actually seem to think that Blago is innocent and being railroaded by evil Repubs.

[Danger Mouse]

Poll question: Some people actually seem to think that Blago is innocent and being railroaded by evil Repubs.

So let's put it to a vote. Do you think he's corrupt? Or is he a decent guy that's being set-up by Bank of America or chemtrails or something like that?

[Jennicut]

1. He is guilty. Move on.

My governor went to jail a few years ago and he was a Rethug. Lots of Govs are convicted all the time.

Here is a list of members of congress currently being investigated. Its such a Rethug railroading...not.
Contents


* 1 Senators
o 1.1 Sen. Bob Menendez (D-New Jersey)
o 1.2 Sen. Ted Stevens (R-Alaska)
o 1.3 Note
* 2 Representatives
o 2.1 Rep. John Doolittle (R-California) - Retiring
o 2.2 Rep. Tom Feeney (R-Florida)
o 2.3 Rep. Bob Filner (D-California)
o 2.4 Rep. Jane Harman (D-California)
o 2.5 Rep. William Jefferson (D-Louisiana) - Indicted
o 2.6 Rep. Jerry Lewis (R-California)
o 2.7 Rep. Gary Miller (R-California)
o 2.8 Rep. Alan Mollohan (D-West Virginia)
o 2.9 Rep. Tim Murphy (R-Pennsylvania)
o 2.10 Rep. Rick Renzi (R-Arizona) - Indicted and Retiring
o 2.11 Rep. Don Young (R-Alaska)
* 3 Former members of Congress
o 3.1 Former Rep. Bob Beauprez (R-Colorado)
o 3.2 Former Rep. Randy “Duke” Cunningham (R-California) - Convicted
o 3.3 Former Rep. Tom DeLay (R-Texas) - Indicted
o 3.4 Former Rep. Mark Foley (R-Florida)
o 3.5 Former Rep. Jim Gibbons (R-Nevada)
o 3.6 Former Rep. Katherine Harris (R-Florida)
o 3.7 Former Rep. Dennis Hastert (R-Illinois)
o 3.8 Former Rep. Bob Ney (R-Ohio) - Convicted
o 3.9 Former Rep. Curt Weldon (R-Pennsylvania)
* 4 Former investigations regarding members of Congress
o 4.1 Sen. Pete Domenici (R-New Mexico) - Retiring
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Category:Members_of_Congress_under_investigation#Rep._Alan_Mollohan_.28D-West_Virginia.29

[elleng]

9. Jennicut, thanks

for this informative list.

[geckosfeet]

2. I don't know how innocent he is, but talking about a crime is a lot

different than committing one.

And the asshole in the whitehouse has committed plenty.

[Jennicut]

5. Yes Bush is guilty of crimes above and beyond what Blago could even

dream of but that does not make Blago innocent.

[acmavm]

11. Guilty of what? What act did he really commit? There has to be an actual

action in furtherance of the crime, doesn't it? I mean, ranting and raving and threats don't qualify as a general rule.

I think the guy is batshit crazy and needs to be tossed into the nearest looney bin for observation. But I want to know what action he took that moved him from wishful thinking into felonyville.

[Blarch]

24. Oh please.

If you try and hire a hitman to kill your wife, does the police have to wait till she is dead to arrest you ?

[acmavm]

36. Who'd he hire?

[jberryhill]

50. That's different

I think Blago is guilty as sin.

I also think that a jury is going to have to presume him innocent, and that the prosecutor is going to have to prove his case.

Hiring a hitman *is* an act beyond mere words.

[acmavm]

64. You and the other poster need to drop this hit-man analogy. It's

making you look really stupid.

Blago didn't hire anyone, nor do we have any proof whatsoever that he took any steps in furtherance of ANY criminal action. All we got is some hysterical ranting and raving.

[Bake]

66. I believe he solicited a bribe.

The act of solicitation is a crime in itself, not just the taking of the bribe.

Bake

[Danger Mouse]

6. Of course Bush is worse than Blago could ever dream of being...

but that doesn't mean Blago hasn't done anything wrong.

[geckosfeet]

10. I didn't say he didn't do anything wrong. But I am not sure what he said

is actually a crime. If he did it - clearly - but afaik - he just talked about it. Now, if he was serious and had started the bidding process I can see the crime beginning to unfold.

He may have just as well committed other crimes. For example, they may have a tape of him taking a wad'o'cash from an undercover FBI agent or something. The FBI just set up two state democratic leaders in MA with the same sting.

My point is that I am not sure if talking about doing what he talked about doing is actually illegal. Doing it is against the law. Discussing it in any serious manner is unethical of course - but how do you prosecute it?

[Danger Mouse]

12. I guess we'll just have to see.

:shrug:

[geckosfeet]

13. I am sure that it will be difficult to ignore. The MSM will be using neon

for this story.

[elleng]

18. Criminal conspiracy

A criminal conspiracy exists when two or more people agree to commit almost any unlawful act, then take some action toward its completion. The action taken need not itself be a crime, but it must indicate that those involved in the conspiracy knew of the plan and intended to break the law. One person may be charged with and convicted of both conspiracy and the underlying crime based on the same circumstances.

[geckosfeet]

23. Then I guess there has to be an action towards the completion. It was

certainly discussed, and presumably agreed to.

But, who is the second party in the conspiracy? He may have talked to people, but did they agree to pitch in and carry out the crime?

[elleng]

27. Maybe his 'associate' Harris?

Others?

[NC_Nurse]

3. I think he's probably mentally ill. As well as corrupt.

[Double T]

4. I believe this 'situation' is everyday politics as usual and this kind.......

of deal making is part of politics as usual; the whole damn system and both major political parties are absolutely corrupt.

[Shiver]

15. It's not the same

Giving your campaign manager or a big donor a role in your administration is 'politics as usual'. Actively demanding some kind of bribe in exchange for doing something (ie, demanding $50,000 in campaign funds from the CEO of a children's hospital in exchange for state funding) or not doing something is not the same thing at all.

One of politics as usual. The other is solicitation of bribery and extortion.

[Double T]

17. Most politicians do as the lobbyists say and we all know it isn't done for free.

Lobbyists bribe our congressional representatives everyday.

[TheCowsCameHome]

7. He would fit in perfectly on the GOP side.

[camera obscura]

8. There's not a doubt in my mind he's guilty... and in a much more sensational way than most Repubs

If there had been tapes of Ted Stevens saying the stuff Blago did, the media might actually care about his conviction. :(

[screembloodymurder]

14. Apparently, I'm the only person that believes in the presumption of innocence.

That's sad.

[Shiver]

16. He is innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the law.

I'm not the law, and due to overwhelming evidence, he's guilty as fuck in the eyes of me.

[Danger Mouse]

21. Will Bush get the same presumption of innocence from you?

Or any other Republican? Or does he just get the presumption of innocence because he's a Dem?

[scubadude]

32. Elrond, This is the central scrutinizerrrrrrrrrr....

Was there nearly as much pressure for Bush to step down as there is for Blagojevich? The crimes Blagojevich are peanuts
compared to Bush has done, yet there has been absolutely no serious attempt by anyone to bring him to justice.

Why the obvious dichotomy? Perhaps because the media especially in Illinois is biased as shown by the fact that Obama was the first Dem ever to be endorsed by the Tribune? Perhaps because the Attorney General of Illinois, Lisa Madigan, has been considered a strong candidate for Governor in Illinois and is backed by the Illinois Speaker of the House, her father Mike Madigan?

There are factors in play within Illinois that are pushing this event. Until we know what they are we should all withhold our judgment. Comparison with Bush is nonsense.

Scuba

[Danger Mouse]

40. I don't see it as nonsense.

Why should one person get the presumption of innocence and not the other? Everybody is entitled to equal protection under the law, even Bush. To say otherwise is hypocrisy, pure and simple.

[screembloodymurder]

47. Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?

And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!

[Danger Mouse]

54. Of course I would want the rule of law to be upheld for Bush just as much as Blago.

I just wanted to make sure you weren't one of those 'Bush is definitely guilty' types.

[scubadude]

29. No, your not the only one.

The way it seems to me the governorship Illinois is one of the crown jewels of U.S. politics. It is a large state with many
people and a lot of industry.

On the Republican side there is a large democratic populace in the north but rest of the state is rural and votes for Republicans for the house often. In the last 31 years Illinois has had 26 years of Republican Governorship. Republicans love Governorship of this state. Add to this the fact that George Ryan, the former Republican Governor of the state, gave them a black eye when convicted of corruption and is now doing time in a federal prison for it. Making the Democratic Governor look bad is a very powerful goal of the Republican party.

On the Democratic side there is an awful lot of infighting. Mike Madigan, Illinois Speaker of the House and His daughter Lisa Madigan, Illinois Attorney General, are powering much of the fight. Mike Madigan has had a feud with Blagojevich for years, fueled at least in part by his daughters potential run for the Governors office. Many see her as the obvious replacement for Blagojevich. Also she is seen as a possible replacement for Barack Obama's Senate seat, which would be much harder to achieve with Blagojevich in office.

There is much more than meets the eye to this battle. The stakes are high. The Republican driven media in this state and elsewhere has crucified Blagojevich literally since before his win as Governor. Now we see Pat Fitzgerald publicly excoriate him, something he didn't even do as Special Prosecutor examining the Bush administration, which I personally feel was a whitewash that didn't publicly go as far as it should have, to the self admitted perpetrator.

Blagojevich has a whole lot of opposition here and the attempts to force him to step down before he has been found guilty are certainly up for hard examination in my mind.

Scuba

[LostinVA]

48. I'm not on his jury, so I don't have to make believe he may be innocent

[Brazenly Liberal]

19. Other - he did it, but he's innocent.

Of course he's innocent - the trial date hasn't even been set yet.

Do I think he did what he's accused of? Hell, yes. And I think there's an excellent chance a jury will agree. We sent our last governor to jail and we'll send this one, too. But until that jury agrees, he's innocent. Not by anyone's opinion, but by law.

Illinois is not only the state that has a 50% corruption rate in its last 8 governors. We're also the state that sends so many innocent people to jail that even the last corrupt governor had to see the light and suspend the death sentence.

Some years back, a man in my county was found guilty of murder and sentenced to death. It was during the long time he was going through all those appeals some folks object to that the real killer shocked the hell out of everyone when she confessed. Before I hijack the thread and go off on my anti-capital punishment rant, let me bring it back home by saying that, all appearances to the contrary, the guy was innocent. I don't think Blago will turn out to be innocent, but I remain firmly convinced that safeguarding the presumption of innocence is critical to calling ourselves a free and just people.

[Danger Mouse]

22. I agree with you, of course.

This is just an opinion question. It's up to a jury to decide whether or not Blago is guilty of anything.

[Brazenly Liberal]

25. And I agree with you

I've seen people saying he's being railroaded and the disconnect from reality is pretty mind-boggling.

Some of it is probably due to the fact that we have our own fringies just as the GOP does. But I think some of it is the bunker mentality that became second nature after 8 years of the GOP running roughshod over us and 6 or so years before that of them acting as obstructionist spoilers. It might take some time and some positive experiences before we can all decompress.

[NashVegas]

20. I Go With Option Two

I'm not sure he did anything illegal, think he's being railroaded and suspect Illinois is being treated to "Disaster Politics."

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

26. My brother has been telling me about this guy for a couple of years now

How corrupt he is. And Bro lives in Carbondale, about as far away from Chicago as you can get and still be in Illinois. So, based on his rep, I'd have to say Blago is guilty.

[scubadude]

33. Your bro got his info from the Illionis media....

which is decidedly bad in this state as evidenced in my other posts on this thread.

Scuba

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

34. My brother worked for state government

so I don't think all his information came from The Southern Illusion--er, Southern Illinoisan.

[Radical Activist]

41. That would do it.

No one who works for the state has any doubt that Blagojevich is an incompetent crook who ran the state bureaucracy into the ground. That's why he only got 20% of the vote in Springfield.

[Shakespeare]

42. What a presumptuous thing to say.

And, of course, you're wrong. :rofl:

[Chiefofland]

28. He solicited money in exchange for political spots

That to me is guilt.

[DevonRex]

30. He sounds corrupt as hell. But I voted to free somebody.

I'll have to read the transcripts myself before I decide. But the excerpts that have been posted here sure sound terrible.

[GoneOffShore]

31. Free Mumia ? - Can I get tofu with that?

Come on, that's just dumb.

[Danger Mouse]

38. Why do you hate Mumia?

:cry:

[Critters2]

52. !

lol! What would we do if Mumia were freed?!

[Danger Mouse]

53. Why, then all of the problems of the world would have been solved.

[GoneOffShore]

59. I don't "hate" Mumia......Apart from the whole 'shooting the cop' thing.

:shrug:

Hate is too strong a word.

After all these years and all the publicity it's more like total exhaustion.

[mtnsnake]

35. Other: Blago MIGHT be innocent of the charges in the manner they were stated by Patrick Fitzgerald

That's the option I would have chosen in the poll.

To me, Blago sure SEEMS guilty, just by virtue of the first impressions I get of him, but Patrick Fitzgerald seemed a bit overzealous to me, too, and I wouldn't be shocked if Blago gets off scott free because Fitzgerald might have jumped the gun on this and overstated the charges against Blago. I'm just speculating.

[juno jones]

37. My take on it.

My parents worked for the state of IL. My father in the dept of early childhood edu. I remember one year my mom being really uptight beause dad was trying to get a promotion to some kind of dept. head. This was during a republican administration and my dad was a dem. She was worried that the state rep (R), etc wouldn't vouch for him for the posistion or that someone with more money and political connections would compete for the slot.

That offices in my native state, especially major ones, would be for sale just does not surprise me.

We can only hope that sunlight is truly the best disinfectant.

[Radical Activist]

39. How many want the rest of the Illinois Democratic Party to sink down with Blagojevich?

I wonder.

[terrya]

58. That's a great question.

There's the very distinct possibility that the Democrats in Illinois will suffer big time in 2010. Solely because of this crap.

[Shakespeare]

43. Maybe he's really not corrupt.

And maybe monkeys will fly out of my ass.

I don't get it, either, Elrond.

[leftstreet]

44. FREE BLAGO

[Danger Mouse]

45. Piss yellow is an appropriate color for the shirt, I must say.

:P

[leftstreet]

46. LOL Where's DUer Unsane?

Unsane was looking for a 'Free Blago' shirt last night

:D

[Brazenly Liberal]

51. Free? I don't think so

Never happen. Sure, he can't bring in as much as a Senate seat, but I can't see him giving it away. :rofl:

[terrya]

49. Not only is Blagojevich a corrupt scumbag, his wife isn't much better.

Patti has some ethical problems of her own.

[grantcart]

56. her comments in the background are the most hilarious of all

[WeDidIt]

55. HE'll be thrown in prison

where he will do his time in the Illinois Governor's wing.

[TankLV]

57. So much for the "innocent until proven guilty" - but we do have his actual WORDS...

maybe that's one of the "small" reasons?

No wait - that's why most of us think he's GUILTY even tho he hasn't been TRIED yet...

nevermind...

[Danger Mouse]

60. Do you feel that way about Bush?

Innocent until proven guilty?
I feel that way about Blago. He seems pretty corrupt to me...but hey, who knows what the truth is? I have a feeling we'll soon know.

[Orsino]

61. He is corrupt as hell *and* being railroaded by evil Republicans.

Can't really blame them for using Blagojevich to take the spotlight off their own corruption and failure.

[Life Long Dem]

62. That's right, the repubs are just playing politics

[ellie]

63. He is a crook

In a long line of crooks.

[mvd]

65. my opinion is..

Blago is corrupt, but the timing of the probe is suspicious.

[stillcool]

67. The only thing I know is what..

I read in the complaint, which reads like a crime of intent. It's interesting that much of the information in the complaint, aside from the Senate seat, was gotten from Rezko, who has not been sentenced yet, and that much of what was gotten from him is uncorroborated. I don't live in Illinois, and I'm not familiar with the previous investigations and calls for impeachment, so I'm not very informed. It all seems a bit murky, but I wouldn't expect hordes of people coming forward and fessing up to paying to play for contracts, funding, given by the Illinois State Government.

[IsItJustMe]

68. I know two things for sure. Nothing is ever as it appears to be and there are always two sides to

every story. I, for one, will wait until the facts are out there before I jump on your band wagon.