Hillary tells her supporters knock it off (re: Caroline)

[scheming daemons]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1208/Clinton_chides_supporters_on_Kennedy.html

Clinton chides supporters on Kennedy

Hillary Clinton has told her supporters not to impede Caroline Kennedy's path to the U.S. Senate on her behalf, a person familiar with replacement discussions said.

The move clears a major obstacle between Kennedy and the seat.

Prominent Clinton supporters, including Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.), union leader Stuart Applebaum and fundraiser Robert Zimmerman, recently expressed skepticism about the choice, suggesting that Clinton's supporters would see naming Kennedy — a crucial Obama backer — as a slight.

All three "were told that their comments weren't appreciated, and that if they have a candidate they prefer that is motivating their comments and actions, they need to make that crystal clear so that nobody thinks we're behind it," said a person close to the replacement talks.

.
.
.

She wants nothing to do with your efforts.


Now.... if it is not the Hillary supporters who are doing this.... why is Hillary herself feeling compelled to address them?


HMMMMMMM?



Hillary has class. Hillary is smart.

A chunk of Hillary's supporters are still fighting the primary battles..... and she wants them to cut it out.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Wise move on Clinton's part

Shows she is a team player. She realizes we need to get things done, and quickly. No time for quarrels.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

135. I agree - Hillary could see where this was going and she was going to get run over. Go CK!

[Jennicut]

2. Good for Hillz. Let Paterson make up his mind.

[blm]

3. Or.....say one thing publicly when you get caught......

Hill supporters in Mass forced Kerry to have a runoff in the primary....because they agreed with O'Neil? No....because they wanted Kerry punished.

[ClarkUSA]

25. It's called a political sleight of hand.

That occurred to me, too.

[roguevalley]

72. its a smart thing. Caroline is in a special category and she has

enormous dignity. for some dickhead to compare her to J-Lo was about as assinine as it gets.
I also think she can find herself sucked into this debate over Caroline's skills, etc.

If I am wrong here, correct me please.

Neither held elected office before this one.
Both are lawyers -- I like that Caroline is a constitutional lawyer. we need one there.
Both served on boards, yet never were elected to public office so they mesh there too.
Caroline raised zillions for NY schools, has done a lot of good works and is an author
of really good books.
Both are from political families. Given that there are a lot of chores being first lady, they
are not what one would call critical political wonk work training. Unfortunately, Hillary's
first foray into public policy didn't end too well.
Both love America and want to help her become great again.

Caroline is responding to the call Obama has given us all and she is leaving a life she loves
and worked hard to make anonymous in spite of being one of the most famous women in the world.
Caroline and her family were the first to be BARRAGED by papparazzi. Jacqueline took her kids
out of America and married a man rich enough to keep them private. This is no small unconsidered
step here. This is a reasoned step into the sucking world of politics because she wants to do
good for America and help Barack Obama get us out of this mess. She can raise money, campaign
for others and she will do well for New York.

I don't care for legacies too but I think she will be an outstanding senator for New York. Be
happy, New York, that if you do get her you get a jewel. You could have had Ted Stevens all
these years.

[Hieronymus]

114. Excellent argument .. thanks.

[No Elephants]

143. Jackie did not take her kids out of America to keep them private. She did that to keep them

alive. After Bobby's assassination, her words were, "if they're killing Kennedys, then my children are targets." Like Ted Kennedy and Barack Obama, Caroline puts her very life at risk in seeking public office, not "only" her privacy. Sure, any public figure takes that risk to one degree or another, but the Kennedys have been especially tempting targets for pot shots of all kinds.

[polmaven]

125. WOW! Now THERE'S a stretch!

Number one, I think Kerry's opponent in the Massachusetts primary was O'Rilley...not O'Neil.

Number two....HUH??? The reason O'Reilly ran was mainly because of Senator Kerry's IWR vote, which was the same vote as Clinton's.

Number three...Hillary won Massachusetts in the March Presidential primary by a good margin. If it was Hillary supporters who "forced" a "runoff" because they wanted Kerry punished, might that person have gotten at least a little closer in the MA primary in September? Might we have actually worked for his election rather than the other way around?

I thing your hatred for anything and everything Clinton is really beginning to affect your reasoning.

[blm]

127. I meant O'Reilly. O'Reilly's VOTERS who forced the runoff were mainly HRC supporters who didn't

even agree with O'Reilly's stance on Iraq as they supported Hillary's alleged military creds.

[polmaven]

129. Could you give me some PROOF of that?

As I said...If his supporters were mainly HRC supporters, he would have come a lot closer than he did, given the margin by which she won in March!

I disagree completely! His supporters were mainly anti IWR. That was the main plank in his platform, and that was, by his own words at the Convention, the reason he decided to oppose Kerry. It would seem, then, that many of his supporters would be mainly the same people who voted for Obama in March.

[blm]

130. Nope - It was at Mass Dem party OFFICIALS meeting where O'Reilly got 23% of vote

from a party infrastructure heavy with Clinton supporters pissed off at Kerry's support for Obama.

The antiwar crowd was not a big part of that meeting. Hillary's heavy support was NOT from antiwar crowd. O'Reilly's support at that meeting of Dem officials was from Hillary supporters.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2008/06/29/john-kerry-faces-1st-primary-opponent-since-1984/?wpcf7=json&wpcf7=json

[polmaven]

133. That link backs up my point

more than anything else. It also says the 23% figure was from the Massachusetts State Democratic Convention. Not a meeting of Dem party OFFICIALS. I was a delegate to that Convention. I was there. This did not take place is some smoke filled room. The anti-war crowd WAS a big part of the convention.

The beginning of the article says exactly why O'Reilly ran:

<snip>
BOSTON -- Sen. John Kerry is facing his first primary opponent since he first took office 23 years ago, and his challenger has one issue in mind: The senator's 2003 vote authorizing President Bush to launch military action against Iraq.


Ed O'Reilly said he was so incensed by Kerry's vote that he gave up his law practice to devote himself full-time to ousting the Democratic 2004 presidential nominee from office.


"I looked at that and said 'What kind of person would vote for a war knowing it's wrong?"' said O'Reilly, who supported Kerry's 2004 presidential bid after initially backing Howard Dean. "John Kerry knew the vote was wrong but to increase his chances to become president he voted for it anyway. It was a calculated vote based on his own political ambition."

It also says nothing about the delegates to the convention being "heavy with Clinton supporters pissed off at Kerry's support for Obama." It says that the 23% "includedpro-Hillary Clinton activists upset with Kerry's support of Barack Obama."

Maybe you should read it again after wiping the hate out of your eyes.

BTW...I voted for Senator Kerry, I worked phone banks for Senator Kerry, and both my Kerry/Obama/Biden lawn sign and the Kerry and Obama/Biden signs I held at visibilities should assure you that I am/was a Kerry supporter from day one and an Obama/Biden supporter from the day that Hillary stopped her campaign, which just happened to be the day of the MA Dem convention in question.

[blm]

134. He wouldn't have gotten past 15% without the Hillary crowd. And O'Reilly did get support from Dem

officials at that meeting who never would have given him the time of day.

and....
REAL antiwar supporters knew Kerry's June2006 Iraq withdrawal plan was the BASIS for the plan Obama put out in 2007.

O'Reilly was ALWAYS just a nuisance candidacy...and strangely friendly with the Clinton crowd for an 'antiwar' candidate, considering that NO DEMOCRAT influenced the IWR vote in Bush's favor more than Bill did, using his privileged access to Iraq info he saw during his term to back up Bush's claims.

[polmaven]

139. There is absolutely NOTHING

to back up any of what you just said!

I. was. there.!

Party "officials" did not endorse anyone. As a matter of fact, Senator Kerry was allowed to speak a good deal longer than he was supposed to, and no one said anything.

Your previous post said:
"It was at Mass Dem party OFFICIALS meeting where O'Reilly got 23% of vote from a party infrastructure heavy with Clinton supporters pissed off at Kerry's support for Obama."

The 23% was from the DELEGATES, with no influence from anyone.

And from where, may I ask, do you get the line about O'Reilly being strangely friendly with the Clinton crowd?????? It certainly doesn't say that in the link you gave.

I am once again going to ask you to back that up, because I think it is actually no more than a figment of your hate filled imagination.

I. was. there.

[blm]

144. I had exchanges with O'reilly a number of times and he refused to say anything about

Hillary's support for IWR that went far past Kerry's as Kerry stood against Bush's DECISION to invade and Hillary stayed sided with Bush on Iraq straight through till Joe Lieberman lost his primary.

You can doubt Kerry's camp who witnessed firsthand at the convention that it was Clinton loyalists who lifted O'Reilly past the 15%, but they are FAR MORE TRUSTWORTHY than the likes of Clinton and O'Reilly's camps.

[polmaven]

150. I will say it one more time....

I. WAS. THERE.

I "witnessed firsthand at the convention" what went on at the convention! I was PART of the "Kerry camp", and, as of that Saturday morning, before the vote, part of the "Obama camp".

You have failed to show me any link proving the claim you are making.

Oh, and your use of the term "the likes of Clinton"...camps is very telling.

You have been all over the place in this sub-thread.....First it was the Dem OFFICIALS at a separate meeting who gave him the 23%, then it was the Hillary "crowd who put him over the 15%, then it was the influence of the Dem Party officials from that meeting, then it was ..oh, I've lost track, there are so many.

Were you there at the Convention? No, I didn't think so.

[blm]

152. I will post AGAIN what Kerry camp said...

"Kerry supporters note the poll didn't mention O'Reilly. They also say the 23 percent of delegates O'Reilly won at the Democratic convention included pro-Hillary Clinton activists upset with Kerry's support of Barack Obama."

You can pretend all you want that Clinton camp wasn't behind that vote, but those of us who've witnessed their betrayals of Kerry over the years know better.

Betrayals we saw too many times.

So did historian Douglas Brinkley when he made this comment in April2004:
http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

When Bill used his summer2004 book tour to support and defend Bush's decisions on Iraq even while Kerry was criticizing those decisions:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/

And Carville wasn't working for Kerry when he called the WH about Ohio's provisional ballots, was he?
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward


Hillary sided with Bush's lie against Kerry in 2006:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

And we all know by now that Bill Clinton deep-sixed throughout the 90s many of the outstanding matters that should have put BushInc out of business and in jail by the mid 90s, not planning their return to the WH.
http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html


Do I hate the Clintons? I love open government and want to protect that right to open government and the Clintons have proven over and over again that they will always side with Bushes and the powerful elite who benefit from the secercy and privilege of closed government.

Why do you fight FOR that?

[polmaven]

157. The quote says

nothing about anyone pushing O'Reilly over the 15%! It says the 23% INCLUDED pro-Clinton activists.....! It did not say "pushed O'Reilly over the 15%"! You can and will read into anything what you wan to read into it, but it is all in your imagination. THE CLINTON CAMP WAS NOT BEHIND THAT VOTE!

I. WAS. THERE.!!!!! Where were you?

[blm]

163. Kerry camp has credibility. Clinton camp DOES NOT. They've betrayed Kerry for YEARS.

Kerry - who has uncovered and exposed more government corruption than any other lawmaker of the last 35 years, an honest lawmaker who Clintons and their loyalists have always worked against in their efforts to protect BushInc and the powerful.

Apparently you decided to not click on any of the links that prove what Judases the Clintons and their thugs are to the Democratic party and to open government.

[polmaven]

164. Like I said...

believe whatever you want..even if you have to make it up.

[polmaven]

165. Like I said...

you have the right to believe whatever you want...even if you have to make it up.

[mtnsnake]

137. Good luck with that!!!

How do you prove propaganda that stems from her jealousy :shrug:

[blm]

138. So, Kerry's people at the Mass convention were wrong about the number of HRC supporters

lifting O'Reilly past 15%?

You Dubai protectors are so funny.

[mtnsnake]

141. "You Dubai protectors are so funny"

hahaha, thanks for proving my point about your jealousy of everything Clinton. :hi:

[blm]

146. Jealous nothing - I loathe their protection of BushInc the last 20 yrs and YOU DON'T

mind it a bit. That Bill banks millions off his devoted advocacy for Dubai and Saudi Arabia's agenda along with Poppy Bush means NOTHING to you.

You prefer closed government that protects secrecy and privilege because Bill does.

I prefer open government and will fight for it. You choose to attack me and other open government supporters.

[mtnsnake]

151. The only thing you loathe is anything with the last name Clinton

but thanks for telling me so much about myself that I never knew before. Very enlightening! :crazy:

[blm]

153. Who do you THINK you support when you defend Bill's advocacy for Dubai and House of Saud?

You think Poppy Bush and his cronies doesn't benefit from Bill's lobbying for and protection of that crowd?

[mtnsnake]

158. You're the only one who rattles on endlessly about Dubai & House of Saud

not me.

That's quite the imagination you have there, but we already knew that, didn't we.

When are you going to stop making excuses for John Kerry? Never?

[blm]

161. There are plenty of threads about Dubai and House of Saud - you never show up there as you pretend

that Clintons never lifted a finger to help protect the Dubai-Saudi Royals along with Poppy Bush.

You have demonstrated your disinterest in open government matters repeatedly.

[polmaven]

142. Honestly!

The misinformation is astonishing! It is being pulled right out of her imagination, and stems from a whole lot of HATE!

So far, nothing at all has been backed up!

[blm]

149. You don't believe Kerry camp quote about angry Clinton supporters pushing O'Reilly past 15%?

Why ignore that part of the article?

Or do you prefer to believe that Clinton supporters were for O'reilly because he was against the IWR vote?

[polmaven]

159. I ignore that part of the article

because IT DOESN'T EXIST!

I was there and I talked with a lot of the O'Reilly supporters. NOT ONE said he or she was voting for O'Reilly because Kerry needed to be punished for his endorsement of Obama..Not ONE!

Read into it what you want, if that will help you feed your bitterness, but it does not say that!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

136. Which is why I'm worried that Obama is going to pay for his graciousness in making Hillary SoS.

[polichick]

4. Wonder if Obama spoke with her - some of the talking heads thought he might.

[peace frog]

6. Talking heads will say any damn thing

I'll give Hillary her due on this one.

[polichick]

11. Well, since they're infoentertainment people, their job is to keep...

...the stories rolling. Who really knows.

[peace frog]

13. Exactly

Which is why I'm giving Hillary kudos independent of any dubiously *reported* pep talk from PE Obama.

[polichick]

15. I'm just watching without coming to any conclusions, as usual.

[peace frog]

17. Good enough

A healthy skepticism helps, too.

[polichick]

20. Best to have skepticism when it comes to politicians AND talking heads.

[peace frog]

29. What happened to:

"I'm just watching without coming to any conclusions, as usual."
Skepticism applies only under certain circumstances, got it.

[polichick]

35. Does it?

[peace frog]

37. You don't know?

Seems we've come full circle so I'll be moving on. Nice conversing with you. :hi:

[polichick]

40. I was asking you to think again - no worries.

[peace frog]

44. I always do

and no worries at all. See ya around.

[sohndrsmith]

23. you're smart... I just blew my top in another related post....

it's hard to separate the drama sometimes, because there's always one component involved in Dem-on-Dem fighting... but I hope this article is more accurate than the one I just railed on... : ) (sigh).

[polichick]

43. The thing with political news is that EVERYONE wants to control the message...

...the players in the story AND the various media personalities too. Crazy.

[sohndrsmith]

46. you're right - and my bias is just as loony as an other... I should shut up perhaps : )

it is crazy... but... even the Blago deal which should have us far more passionate for far more serious reasons... is all but forgotten, on some level. Not to mention the dozens of crises at hand globally and nationally... it's just really, really weird.

And I haven't helped the matter any because I spoke emotionally before I used my brain. Not useful or helpful at all... phoo...

[polichick]

48. Don't worry, we all speak emotionally sometimes when we care about an issue. :)

[sohndrsmith]

49. thanks, but it still isn't helpful because it's not fair or nice... but

at least when we're passionate it's an indication that it matters to us, no? Regardless of what it is we're so adamant about...

but I appreciate your tempered wisdom. Why didn't you give it to me before I said dumb stuff? : ) Wouldn't I wish I could be forewarned each time? Heh... as if...

You're right. Still, I don't like to publicize my idiocy if I can avoid it... : )

[Captain Hilts]

24. Talking heads love nothing more than a "catfight." nt

[peace frog]

31. You got that right

and when there is no actual catfight, they love nothing better than to conjure one up out of thin air and BS.

[ronnykmarshall]

77. As will the talking heads of DU.

[Renew Deal]

34. Why do you think he would need to?

Hillary has been on board with everything since the convention. She's now part of his team. Why would he need to say anything?

[polichick]

38. I don't know if Obama needed to speak with her or not...

...but given what history has shown us about the Clinton machine, it wouldn't surprise me if Hillary knew what her supporters were doing. It's politics.

[peace frog]

5. Well played, Madame SoS

Team player and no grudge-holding.

[SuperTrouper]

7. These three, Weiner, Applebaum and, Zimmer probably want Jerrod Nadler as Senator.

There are people that although it is "a Kennedy seat" as in RFK, Caroline should not get it. Well, at the same time, this is not a Jewish seat either and Nadler should not be automatically in that list. Governor Paterson needs to name the best qualified person, the best able to raise funds in NY and nationally and the only one that can do that with her star power is Caroline Kennedy, period.

Good for Hillary, she always has shown class.

[EFerrari]

8. Nadler is a very attractive guy. He'd be a good choice, too, imho. n/t

[SuperTrouper]

12. He may be attrac tive etc but lacks charisma in my opinion.

Caroline has loads of charisma, you can feel it the moment she walks in a room. She would be an excellent pick and I have thought that even during the primaries when I hoped for Hillary=VP with Sweet Caroline to replace her.

[EFerrari]

21. I'd love to see Caroline in the Senate. If Nadler gets the nod,

it's still a good outcome, though.

[roguevalley]

75. I like Jerry a lot but we have to keep this seat and grow more. Caroline

can do that.

[Cha]

9. Well, I've read that Ackerman is one who

has made snark remarks about Caroline and doesn't he want the job himself? :think:

There's lots of Hillary primary supporters here who are very gracious about Caroline except for one standout who has puma written all over it.

[Cha]

10. Double post.

[Metric System]

14. This doesn't surprise me at all. It sickens me that some here assume Hillary is sending these people

out to scuttle Caroline's appointment. Just because someone has ties (however tenuous) to the Clintons doesn't mean they speak for them.

[Captain Hilts]

26. How many bazillions of times does she have to prove she's a team player?

[ronnykmarshall]

79. You're talking about DU.

They Hillary bashers will never allow that to happen.

[SwampG8r]

120. every time she steps onto the field

thats what being a team player means
you prove it every time you walk onto the field

[Lucky 13]

45. I don't assume that at all. I assume some of Hillary's supporters are bat-shit crazy

and think they know more than Obama and the "Goddess-of-Peace" put together. She has created a monster with her radical fan base... one that not even she can control.

[Irishonly]

54. Stupid Media

It's an insult to Hillary and Caroline to imply there are hard feelings. Both women are accomplished and they didn't get to where they are today by holding grudges. The male dominated media is also implying Obama had to get involved and it just chaps my hide. Two professional women can't work out their differences? BS The media is driven for some insane reason to paint Hillary as an embittered woman. Time and time again she proves them wrong.

[DevonRex]

61. Hopefully folks will realize now that it's not true, and that

most Hillary primary supporters are fine with Caroline getting the seat.

[rvablue]

16. Kicking so that the "everything is Hillary's fault" folks can get a taste.

It's obvious why these three were bitching.....they wanted it for themselves and I don't think that their complaining was to protect the feelings of Hillary...if they did say that off the record it was their red herring.

They are just jealous that they weren't under serious consideration.

Go Hillary! Can't wait to see you in the Foggy Bottom!

[Alexander]

18. Good. I always knew she had more class than that.

[oviedodem]

19. I REST MY CASE!!

For all those that shredded me on an earlier shred; this goes out to you. Vindicating my claim that there are some out there who needed this talking too!!

[Thrill]

22. If Obama truly wants Caroline. How about Hillary endorse her?

That would be a nice way to pay Obama back for believing in her as SoS

[ClarkUSA]

27. Great idea!

I'm not holding my breath, though.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

47. ...And I won't hold my breath, hoping you'll not always

jump to the most negative conclusions about anything to do with the Clintons.

This, despite the fact that we all KNOW that the talking heads make their ratings by inflating, exaggerating, dramatizing, and even outright making shit up.

Funny how the same people who scream about the media distorting or misrepresenting their personal heros ... are willing to gobble up any steaming slop served up about the Clintons.

[ClarkUSA]

68. ...

:nopity:

[SaveOurDemocracy]

76. ...

[sohndrsmith]

39. I wondered that too, aren't Clinton's politics supposed to be

... sort of ... deferred at this point? If she's a cowboy, then maybe not. I don't know. I hope this is all just rumor, and I hope she has nothing to do with it. But I'm skeptical based on history. Repeated, consistent...

It's very strange that this issue is so important - and that it isn't publicly mollified by the one person who could mollify it... regardless of the appointment. There is no need for an endorsement, just a clarification that would (hopefully) allay fears and doubts that are brewing, yet again... ugh.

Actually, I take that back. If Mrs. Clinton has accepted the SoS position, I do think the appropriate thing might be to - if not endorse - but offer some signal of remnant approval for Kennedy, assuming she has agreed to serve the PE, and assuming that he agrees (I'm guessing he'd be happy with the choice).

Then again, that might be an unfair pressure on Paterson. Good grief. Why does this always happen?

We hyper-focus on this garbage... when so many other things are at stake that are far more crucial... I hope this isn't related in any way to Clinton but I'm having a hard time pinning it on anything or anyone else... by design or default - when the Clintons are involved things seem to go crazy and we lose ourselves... it's really, really weird.

I hope to heck I'm wrong... problem is I've been wrong about this so consistently that...

we'll see what the latest "headlines" bring about. Somehow I fear this may get worse before it gets better - man am I going to catch flak for this...

[Freddie Stubbs]

85. Or Obama could just call Paterson, since the Governor is the one making the decision

[JVS]

131. I think that that sets an extremely bad precedent for Obama's future actions.

[No Elephants]

145. Agreed. Obama cannot play favorites at the state level, be it Illinois or NY or anywhere else.

[JVS]

162. My point was more that putting /clinton in the position of endorsing or not endorsing each...

decision undermines his status as the real president

[ClarkUSA]

28. Hank Sheinkof, Clinton hack, didn't get the message. He was on CNN today using the "J-Lo" line.

Guess he and Clinton backer Gary Ackerman (D-Queens) got the same talking points.

[GobamaX]

30. I think it was before Hillary spoke out against them.

I heard that 'J-Lo' line yesterday.

[Cha]

33. That's so john mccain of them..

And, really just shows how low class they are and specifically why I don't want their ilk.

Nothing wrong with J-Lo but comparing her to Caroline Kennedy illustrates that they have nothing but their feeble imagination.

[ClarkUSA]

36. Well-said and better observed.

:thumbsup:

[mwei924]

59. Seriously, J.Lo hasn't even been in any movies recently. nt

[Cha]

73. I happen to like Jennifer Lopez but I wouldn't

consider her for my Senator and these pols picked comparing celebrities to our candidates from john mccain..it didn't work then and it's not going to work now.

[Renew Deal]

41. Gary Ackerman is a really nice guy.

I don't know what kind of BS he's up to, but he's actually a nice guy who cares about the country.

[tblue37]

51. What is the "J-Lo" line? nt

[boppers]

52. J-Lo has the same name regognition as Caroline.

J-lo (Jennifer Lopez) is from NY, too.

Point being that if fame matters more than actual qualifications or experience, J-Lo and Caroline should be front runners.

[Cha]

57. It's a sophomoric comparison and worthy of

a john mccain.

[boppers]

92. I think it's a multi-pronged attack.

One prong is to delegitimize the process, by insinuating that any candidate who is "popular" isn't actually a good pick.

Another prong is to question CK's (or any other people who might land the position) credentials, something that I think is worthy of discussion, and reasonable people certainly can differ on the topic.

The third prong is the obsessive hatred of the Kennedy family name/brand exhibited by some, trying to smear the family as mere celebrities.

Now, if the attack was comparing a candidate to, oh, Paris Hilton, that'd definitely be a McCain-ism.

;)

[No Elephants]

148. Except that Caroline has very different experience and qualifications than J-Lo. It was low.

[Renew Deal]

32. Hillary has played ball at every opportunity since the convention.

Hopefully guys like Weiner can figure that out.

[Lucky 13]

42. KICK KICK KICK KICK KICK

She's created a rabid following that not even she can control. There are some that believe that they know better than the very Goddess-of-Peace they profess to adore. She's created a monster.

[noiretextatique]

56. no matter how many times you repeat this nonsense

it still won't be true.

[ronnykmarshall]

81. you said that already.

and I'm sure you'll say it again.

[Lucky 13]

86. Is it not true?

Is her statement today telling everyone to knock it off about Caroline not some evidence of that?

[ronnykmarshall]

88. Define EVERYONE

You have been going out of your was to paint EVERY Hillary supporter in a negative way. And it pissed me off.

I sick of this fucking shit around here. The primary is OVER. Good god. Move on.

[Lucky 13]

108. What in the name of God does this have to do with the primaries? This is about Caroline Kennedy.

Stop making this about something it isn't. It seems every time there is a disagreement on DU someone says, "The primaries are over! Get over it!" It's a way to dismiss an argument without actually addressing it... I can only assume because they have nothing of substance to contribute. The "primaries are over!" line got old round about July. It's now December. It's played the fuck out and it's a ridiculous, weak-minded, mouth-breater of a retort. So how bout we all just stick to the fucking topic at hand?

This particular argument is about Caroline Kennedy and certain people who are trashing her for no good fucking reason that I can identify.

"Everyone" (my definition in context): The people trashing Caroline Kennedy over the last few days.

I said nothing about "every hillary supporter". I am talking about a fringe group of over-zealous idiots who don't seem to give a fuck what Hillary has to say on the matter and are trashing a woman who does not deserve this kind of treatment. The worst part is, and this is what gets me mad, these particular people are obviously completely blind to the own hypocrisy of their attacks.

MANY of the arguments people are using against Caroline are the very same arguments that were used against Hillary when she first ran for Senate. "not qualified" "using her family name" "legacy" "nepotism" etc. It angered a lot of her supporters and rightfully so, because she was an accomplished woman in her own right... just like Caroline. Suggesting otherwise is demeaning and, I think, sexist. But many of those same people that found those line of attacks inappropriate back then are using the very same attacks against Caroline. And that, Ronny, is total and complete fucking hypocritical bullshit.

It's selective sexism. It's misogyny when it suits you. If defending Hillary from it, it is outrageous and won't be tolerated. But if it's used to attack one of Hillary's non-supporters, it's a-ok. HYPOCRITES! Frankly I'd rather deal with someone who is sexist all the time than people that are sexist just when it fucking suits them. At least you know where you stand with that first group of idiots. It's the second group that could end up doing something crazy in the name of devotion to their illustrious leader... like forming PUMA for example.

It's the HYPOCRISY that bothers me. When the hypocrisy and bullshit ends, I'll shut up. When these idiots heed Hillary's request, stop trashing Caroline, and STFU, I'll STFU.

[ronnykmarshall]

117. Yaaaaawwwwwn!

Oh please.

You'll walk on glass to attack Hillary and her supporters.

You have the fucking nerve to talk about selective outrage. PLEASE!!!

I love how you spew the same "PUMA" shit when you try to justify your fake ass "outrage".

For the record .. I WANT Caroline to get the senate seat.

Oh hell yeah there are a few shit head "supporters" of Hillary that trash Caroline Kennedy. But it seems that the DU troop that shit on Hillary and her supporters in the primary LIKE YOU ... jump at any little tid bit of bait to get a stick up your asses to talk shit.

Poor things.

Hillary has been 100% behind the President-elect since she dropped out.

But the hate and bullshit still flows from the same septic tanks.

This "story" is nothing. Nothing but some assholes on blogs and stupid pricks from the media that don't have anything better to do but try and dig up tabloid worthy gossip to feed their little empty lives.

Move on.

And take your "It's misogyny when it suits you" and shove it straight up your ass.

[Metric System]

121. Cosigned.

[Lucky 13]

154. You *yawn* and yet you keep replying. I suggest finding a more stimulating hobby.

You accuse me of jumping "at any little tidbit of bait to get a stick up your asses to talk shit" and of "hate and bullshit"?

Holy hypocrisy, Batman! Re-read your own post and look in the mirror.

Let me get this straight: I'm supposed to keep my opinions to myself and not "bite" on remotely-Hillary-related threads, but you and others are free to "bite" and "jump at any little tid bit of bait to get a stick up your asses to talk shit" when it comes to my posts? You are ridiculous!
:rofl:

You are aware that YOU have the option of ignoring ME, right? You are aware that you don't have to bite when you see one of my posts that gets you exorcised, right?

Let me save you a lot of time and effort: I don't give a fuck about you or your issues. No matter how nasty you get, no matter how much you hate my opinion, no matter how much you flame me... you won't shut me up. Ever. So if I upset your delicate sensibilities so much, I encourage liberal use of the ignore feature.

YOU keep making it about the primaries, not me. Why would I? The primaries were just the first in a series of hurdles. And in 20 years, most people won't even care about or remember who he had to beat in the primaries. Barack is going to be the next President and I've gotten just about everything I've wanted from this election cycle and his appointments so far. I'm even ok with Hillary as SoS! It's hard to be angry about that when everything has gone my way!

I just don't like the obvious attempts to tear Caroline Kennedy apart through exceedingly hypocritical arguments. It's those people I have a problem with, which apparently doesn't include you.

But if flaming me makes you feel better, have at it! You're funny as hell.
:hi:

[ronnykmarshall]

82. dupe

[Beacool]

93. And Obama created some supporters who are even more rabid.

Leave Hillary out of it. Her supporters have a mind of their own and can think for themselves. Personally, I don't think that Caroline should be given a senate seat on a silver platter, even if she had endorsed Hillary.

[EFerrari]

94. Right. But you also called Senator Clinton your "gal" and thought the Obamas

should spend these next three weeks in a hotel after chastising them for inquiring over Blair House, as if that weren't perfectly reasonable.

I personally don't believe you represent the supporters of Hillary Clinton here or anywhere.

[Beacool]

95. I represent myself, no one else

Hillary is and will always be my gal. She's a terrific person and those who trash her here daily probably don't know her personally.

[mwei924]

97. We never called anyone Judas for supporting another primary candidate...

A year ago, we all thought it would take a huge miracle for Obama to pull it off. We didn't expect big endorsements. We assumed most of the big guns would stick with Hillary so we weren't shocked or surprised when someone didn't endorse Obama. It was more shock and surprise when a big name DID endorse Obama.

Not saying that ALL Hillary supporters, but at least the ones that get on TV tended to overreact when someone endorsed Obama-- like they were betraying Clinton or weren't grateful.

[Beacool]

98. Richardson was a separate case

and we have rehashed this issue ad nauseum.

[mwei924]

100. Definitely heard some of that about Ted Kennedy as well..

..that he was supposed to be Hillary's friend in the senate, he's friendly with Bill, etc, etc.

[Beacool]

104. Kennedy standing in moral judgment of anyone is quite funny

considering his own past. When he endorsed Obama he made a point of bashing Bill and that's when he pissed off people. I remember how we waited to see the MA results and how we celebrated when the results came in. I also remember the Boston Globe article that called both MA senators backstabbers. The top 3 elected office holders endorsed Obama while most of the other politicians backed Hillary, including the mayor of Boston.

[mwei924]

105. You're proving my point now.

So if you don't endorse Hillary, you're a "backstabber" as if she personally saved all of them from a burning building and they owed her. I guess people who expected the nomination to be handed to them would think that way.

Most Obama supporters were just happy to get ANY high profile endorsement. No one even cared about those weren't endorsing Obama. For a some time, the only big endorsement we had was Dick Durbin.

And Ted Kennedy was only unhappy with Bill Clinton's racial comment, as were many people. Not to mention, he reportedly endorsed Obama mainly because of Caroline.

[Beacool]

107. Well, it's water under the bridge now.

With the pressure on Patterson to appoint Caroline it's probably a done deal that she will be the next senator.

Whatever........

:eyes:

[Lucky 13]

109. Clearly fucking NOT water under the bridge... if you continue to discuss it daily.

[Beacool]

111. Oh well, looked who showed up to start cursing up a storm.

Cheers to you too........

:eyes:

[Lucky 13]

112. One curse word is a "storm"?

Do you only watch G-rated movies? Have you spent time with anyone under the age of 35 in a social setting? Sheesh.

[Whisp]

50. oh, I see... now if Caroline Does get the seat,

it will be because Hillary said it was okay.

;(

[Lucky 13]

53. I don't think that. I just think it was time for Hillary to step up and tell these idiots to STFU.

Glad she did.

[Phx_Dem]

55. Good job, Hillary.

The last thing she needs is a bunch of lunatic supporters making her look bad ala Clay Aiken and the fanatical "Claymates."

Everyone is entitled to their opinion about Caroline Kennedy, but Anthony Weiner and a few others have been downright ugly in their remarks. Show a little class Weiner.

[mwei924]

58. Again, Hillary proves that she's better than her supporters.

[Lucky 13]

155. you got that right

[Laelth]

60. K&R for HRC. She did the right thing, here. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

140. What choice did she have? Even Hillary can read the writing on the wall - Caroline is a shoe-in.

[politicasista]

62. Good

I like Caroline. :)

[DevonRex]

63. I can't believe she has to do it in the first place. A few nuts are

making it look like Hillary's supporters are resentful and petty. And that's just not the case. We have evidence of that right here on DU. The primaries were over long ago and almost everyone here is pleased with Obama and Hillary and Caroline, all 3.

[Captain Hilts]

65. Thank you. nt

[AtomicKitten]

64. Yet many of her devoted following continue to act out on her behalf.

I wonder if they think they detect a wink-wink coming from her.

Either real or imagined, it fuels their Clinton First cause and M.O.

[Pathwalker]

67. Who is this many? I see several Obama supporters against Caroline,

but apparently more than a few of the "many" pro-Hillary/anti-Caroline posters are on my ignore list because the only ones screaming against Caroline were once rabid Obama supporters. I am clearly missing something on DU, because I'm not seeing Hillary supporters going after Caroline.

[AtomicKitten]

70. I guess you missed these gems:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7985082&mesg_id=7985082

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7982881&mesg_id=7982881

[Pathwalker]

71. I sure did! I'm glad I did, too. Thank you.

Wow! Well, I'm in Michigan, so I don't think I get to have an opinion, but if I did - I can honestly say that I would be proud to have The John F. Kennedy Brain Trust representing my state!
Umm..thanks for showing me that nastiness. I think. :hi:

[AtomicKitten]

78. no worries

cheers

:hi:

[AspenRose]

132. "You are ignoring the author of that thread."

Heh.

[Muttocracy]

119. that explains it

I'm not a fan of Kennedy for this seat but I wasn't getting all this stuff with Clinton - but it's my ignore list at work I guess.

[sohndrsmith]

66. "said a person close to the replacement talks" -- um... what?

does this source imply that - Clinton is involved in the replacement talks or...
that this is not about Clinton and cannot/should not be attributed... or
what the heck does it mean?

I didn't know there were "replacement talks"... I thought... never mind... I'm just going to get in trouble again if I continue. : )

[Muttocracy]

118. replacement talks vs. just up to Paterson? it's confusing. nt

[Sultana]

69. Hot Damn!

She always has to calm down her rowdy supporters :eyes:

[ronnykmarshall]

74. and a chunk of DU likes to lump ALL Hillary supporters into this shit.

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

84. You're the new expert, huh?

[ronnykmarshall]

89. Looks like something rose from the grave.

They seem to pop up over and over like the living dead.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[liberalla]

83. I hope they listen to her --- Thank you Hillary.

:kick:

[bvar22]

87. My contribution to this thread:

Robert Zimmerman is a snake.
His on screen persona is that of someone that can NOT be trusted.
The Democratic Party should remove him from any & all positions where he is the official spokesman.

As far as the rest of the Clinton Drama, I'm not wasting my time.

[political_Dem]

90. She had no choice.

If it were seen in the press that Hillary and her followers did a beat-down on Caroline Kennedy, it wouldn't look good for the former Senator, her husband, the "pant-suit" brigade and the rest of their machine.

That's why (like when the NY delegation met with Hillary before the convention) an intervention had to be made to stop this nonsense--especially when it attacked the very fiber of one of America's most legendary families.

After all, how would Hillary like it if she and her supporters were perceived as being the ones who trampled the very aura of Camelot to pieces? A lot of folks would not like that--especially in light of the RFK comment the former Senator uttered earlier.

So yes, it was very shrewd on her part. But the jury is still out on whether Hillary actually means it. After all, she's done a lot of calculated things that won't be forgotten.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

99. Yeah I have a real hard time not wondering if anything Hillary does isn't calculated n/t

[Captain Hilts]

101. They have no motivation. Plenty of other people are doing the beat-down. Kos, for example...

just came out against it as have all those who oppose royal families, Upstaters who note Caroline's never been up there, NYDems who note Caroline has never done anything for NYDems, etc.

[Metric System]

106. Thank you for proving that she's fucked either way. For certain CDS sufferers no matter what she

does is wrong and done with ulterior motives.

[political_Dem]

110. I think, by virtue of her past and current behavior, she's proved this by herself.

No thanks are necessary on this one.

[Metric System]

116. Oh good grief.

[political_Dem]

91. Double Post. I apologize.

[TheWraith]

102. Good. The PUMAs need to knock it off... including the ones in the NY CoDel.

At this point it has nothing really to do with supporting Hillary: it's a handful of people who just don't take losing well.

To clarify, of course I'm not talking about everybody opposing Caroline Kennedy--just the angry handful who insist on trying to trash her personally and attack her.

[thatsrightimirish]

103. She is apart of the Obama administration now

and Obama wants Caroline in the Senate

[saltpoint]

113. Agree with others here. HClinton's instruction to her people not to

impede any possible appointment of CK by Gov. Paterson is a very smart move.

[JVS]

115. .

:popcorn:

[Skidmore]

122. Has it ever occurred to anyone that some of those claiming to be her supporters

are quite possibly in fact Republican disruptors?

[northofdenali]

123. My mom is a major Hillary fan. I am a major Obama fan.

We neither of us can figure out the difference. Two highly intelligent, skilled, compassionate, able people. Mom really wanted a woman to be President before she goes "over the rainbow" (she's 92) but voted Obama in the nationals.

I can see no reason for Hillary to oppose Caroline for her Senate seat. I can see no reason for Hillary supporters to do so. Caroline is, also, an intelligent, skilled, compassionate and able woman who will give all to the job.

Hillary Clinton is an asset to all of us, folks. Caroline would be, too. As is Bill Richardson and Joe Biden.

Just because you lose a primary does NOT mean you lose what brought you there in the first place.

:hug: to Hillary supporters. She is one hell of a woman, and will be one hell of a Secretary of State.

This bullshit rivalry thing is just exactly that - bullshit. We are all of one party, not of one mind - that is for Rovian Repukes.

[polichick]

147. It's probably not as much a rivalry thing as it is a strategic power base thing.

[northofdenali]

156. Maybe, poli, but that's not the way it's playing out here on DU.

And yeah, I am a lot disappointed by some of the attitudes showing up here recently. It's almost worse than during the primaries.

Can't resist this one for those who are so SKEERED of whatever:

[polichick]

160. Cute picture! :)

[cooolandrew]

124. I know they must be embarassing her a bit she has always been close to the Kennedys. If only they

could emulate Hillary's grace and class they'd do themselves a world of good.

[seaglass]

126. Politico = gossip. Amazing how many people put such faith in

unattributed statements and spin.

Ben Smith: http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0307/CORRECTION_Edwards_Campaign_Goes_On.html

[FloridaGrl]

128. They need to freaking grow up

and get over themselves. This childish hatred of everyone who opposed Hillary is stupid! The election is OVER, wake the heck up and move on. It doesn't make you love her any less if you grow up and move on.
I was upset with Hillary during the primaries. I am now over it.