I am outraged at the outrage about my outrage regarding outrageous things...

[jakem]

I could give a fuck about whether Warren is allowed to speak.
Give it a rest folks. Obama is just giving the rest of us a bathroom break during Warren.

The game plan (in case you missed it) is result oriented. Not ideological.

If the results don't follow, THEN be pissed.

[merh]

1. It's kinda like bringing all the opposing Muslim forces together

in Iraq - you have to get them all to sit at the same table and to learn to respect each other, despite the differences.

And I suppose it has a great deal to do with "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."

[ClassWarrior]

4. There you go being sensible again...

:hi:

NGU.

[merh]

6. The future for this board frightens me

the nation, with Obama as president, not so much.

Folks are too accustomed to bitching and have forgotten what it is like to trust the president.

And it is only beginning.

NGU :hi:

:hug:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

14. true, but unless we continue to push for and pursue progressive agendas

he won't go in that direction. Roosevelt provided the perfect example: If you want something, force me to do it. The same applies here.

[merh]

21. I have no problems with that -

once he is in office - all this bitching before he does anything is nuts.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

46. purr-fectly true.

[ClassWarrior]

15. Bah... There will always be trolls and haters...

I never worry for the future of this board as long as there are good people like you here.

:hug:

Have a wonderful holiday season, my friend.

NGU.

[merh]

22. Aww, you always say such wonderful things

and you don't know how I needed the niceness today - thank you so much.

May your holiday be all you are hoping for and more. :hug:

NGU :patriot:

[chascarrillo]

2. Pathetic.

[nxylas]

3. I know, it's only a frigging invocation

From all the exploding heads around here, you'd think Obama was making Warren the Attorney General or something.

[LostinVA]

5. whoosh

[cboy4]

10. Nearly took that noggin off.

[bluedawg12]

7. itty bitty STFU chorus committee comes to visit us with advice

Oh, for a minute we thought promoting a bigot of the cultural wars was a bad thing.

[Maven]

8. The APATHY BRIGADE has arrived to delegitimize our feelings.

Right on time!

[pipi_k]

18. It's not apathy, it's

called prioritizing


Are you unemployed? Homeless or on the verge of being homeless?

Without affordable healthcare?

Don't know where your next meal might come from?

Or have some other really serious personal issues that could be more important, in the long run, than who speaks during the inauguration?


If you're not, then count yourself lucky enough to have the luxury of being outraged over this whole thing.

Which really is your choice. I mean, if being outraged over this is what you want to do, it's no skin off my nose.

I just think it's sort of pointless, is all.

[RandomKoolzip]

23. Some people just had their civil rights taken away, making them officially second class

citizens. If you don't realize the significance of that, and DON'T see it as an urgent, looming problem, then you need to start developing some more empathy. The goddamn president - the one we all worked our asses off for - seems to have no problem with declaring GLBTers second-class citizens, either, judging by the Warren decision, the McClurkin decision, and his ambiguity on the issue of GLBT civil rights.

For millions of Americans, this is JUST as urgent, if not more, as unemployment, financial ruin, and health care. If it were YOUR rights that were erased overnight, you might see it from a different perspective.

[pipi_k]

27. And Rick Warren did that?

Are you one of those people who have lost a job, living from day to day not knowing what tomorrow holds (financially), on the verge of ruin, or suffering from some major health problem but have no health coverage? Are you speaking from experience here? All those horrible things have happened but you still have time and energy for outrage over this?

It's a little hard for me to imagine, but I suppose it's possible that someone who can't even afford to pay the rent or utilities, or buy needed medications or food might be consumed with anger over not being allowed to marry that he or she would forget all about basic survival and focus on not being allowed to marry (for now...I believe that will change as protests grow). All I know is that when I've been in similar circumstances myself...dire financial or health-related crisis....other things...even civil rights...take a back seat for a while.

In any case, I have this to say to anyone out in CA who feels he or she has had basic rights taken away with Prop 8...

They are more than welcome to come out this way and be married if that's what's so important to them. If that is what really really matters more than job security, income, health care, etc., then they can move back east, be married, and live happily ever after here.

Granted, they shouldn't have to, but if they are, as you claim, more invested in being married than in worrying about job security, financial ruin, and healthcare, then they'll do what they gotta do and go where gay marriage is legal until such time as the system changes in their home state.


And...

it IS just a speech.

Be offended at the symbolism if you choose, but please don't run around being a Drama Queen, accusing other people of "not understanding" or not wanting civil rights for all just because we don't care who gives the invocation.

[Maven]

30. Gay people are dealing with the bad economy just like you are, lady

Gay people are dealing with keeping jobs too. Only in many states they can still be FIRED for being gay.

Gay people are paying the rent too. Only in many states they can still legally be denied housing.

And let's hope they don't live in a bad neighborhood, since they might be the target of a hate crime.

Gay people are dealing with health crises too. Only in most states they can't share their partner's insurance, nor do they have the right to visit a sick spouse.

Gay people have to pay taxes too. Only they have to pay more than you do if they're part of a couple, since the IRS doesn't recognize them as married.

Getting the picture?

Those issues ARE our issues. Open your goddamn eyes, stop being so arrogant and dismissive and realize that this is a REAL insult and that our issues are real fucking issues.

Fuck.

[pipi_k]

40. Like I said, sweetie...

If the political climate doesn't suit them where they are, they can come east and do what they want to do.

I guess you just don't get my point, do you?


If things suck in X location, you move to Y location.

If they're that bad, you do whatever the hell you HAVE to do to make them better...and if that means moving to a place where none of that shit is going to happen, then that's what they do.

Anyone who sits in a pile of shit and complains because it stinks, but doesn't even try to get the hell out of the pile really has no sympathy from me.

So people got rights taken away. Again I say they are welcome here in Massachusetts, where they can have all the rights they could ever want. Oh, and CT has legalized gay marriage as well.

There's no need for people to "suffer" in a place that doesn't want them.

Maybe if enough gays move out of CA, the state will see how important it is to grant equal rights to all.

[Jamastiene]

31. Yeah, this was JUST a speech too.

http://www.famousquotes.me.uk/speeches/Adolf_Hitler/index.htm

That still doesn't make it right.

[pipi_k]

41. One is a speech declaring war...

the other will be an invocation at a Democratic swearing-in ceremony

The two are NOT even comparable


nice try, though

[Jamastiene]

50. Whoosh! Right over your head.

Thanks for playing, though. I'm sure the consolation prizes will be worth it to you. :eyes:

[RandomKoolzip]

39. No, it ain't just a speech. The invitation of Rick Warren is a sign.

Have you any knowledge of sign-reading?

Rick Warren symbolizes homophobia - his public utterances and his vocal support of Prop 8 mark him as a pre-eminent cultural figure who stands for the very concept of homophobia in the minds of many. No, Warren is not responsible for legislation; that's besides the point. It's what he means that means something.

Anyhow, enjoy those blinders!

[pipi_k]

42. A sign...

you mean...like an OMEN?????


Like, the Freepers were all really right when they said that Barack Obama was the Antichrist????


Are you suggesting that we all got bamboozled into voting for Obama because we thought he would uphold the rights of all but in reality he's out to turn the US into some kind of Nazi State?


holy shit....

I'd better go dig them machine guns and cannons back up in my garden...there's a revolution coming, and Barack Obama will be riding (Lone Ranger and Tonto-style) with Rick Warren to conquer us all!!!!!

:scared:

[RandomKoolzip]

49. Disingenuousness is the new sexy.

:eyes:

PS: you're being a jerk, by the way.

[Maven]

26. Ah, and the "your issues are trivial" post. It's a grab-bag, all in one thread!

[pipi_k]

28. Sorry, never did understand those one-liners....

you know...the ones where someone comes in, makes a snarky one-line sniper attack, then leaves without explaining him/her self


:shrug:

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pipi_k]

45. um, seriously...

are you fucking nuts?

Not with my name, not with any other name....NEVER have I once posted on that board.


In fact, I'm about to report your post as a false accusation.

[jefferson_dem]

9. Of course, you are correct.

Sadly, any hint of impurity will be ponied up here as evidence that Obama is "more of the same", a turncoat, a bigot-coddler, or whatever fits the outrage. Thing is...he never ran as an ideologue...and we shouldn't expect him to govern that way. He is results-oriented and pragmatic... I like that.

[jakem]

11. just you and me it seems.

everyone else is ready to tear me (and Obama) a new asshole.


sad.

[jefferson_dem]

12. That's ok, jakem.

Keep you chin up, bro, and keep fighting the good fight with your head on straight. In the end, Barack will make us all proud.

[jakem]

13. sigh. thanks for that.

:hi:

[pipi_k]

16. Exactly what I said

this morning during breakfast.


Would people here be this outraged if Bush had chosen an Atheist to speak in 2001 and 2005? Atheists are viewed by many Christians as being nearly the same hateful creatures that homophobes and "Pro Lifers" are

Probably most of the people now having hissy fits over Rick Warren speaking would have had something quite different to say had Bush asked an Atheist to give some sort of invocation at both of his "inaugurations" and the Fundy-nuts and other crazies came out with all this outrage over a guy who doesn't share their ideology (GASP!!!!) giving a speech...

It's a goddamn speech, for Pete's sake


I'll bet there are actually people out there who would gladly go and listen to Rick Warren speak if it meant they'd get their jobs, homes, and healthcare back. Priorities matter....

[bigscott]

17. sadly

it is more than just a speech. it is symbolic. Perhaps straight people can't quite get it because Warren does not have a problem with you having basic rights.

Whatever - like the good little faggot you seem to want me to be, i will stop making a big deal of just a "goddamn speech"

peace

S

[pipi_k]

25. Peace????

You accuse me of some pretty nasty things, then sign out with "peace"?

Let me tell you something sweetie...

I don't want ANYONE to be a "good little faggot" as you put it, so don't run around inflicting your martyrdom issues on other people.

In case you didn't notice, I live in Massachusetts...first state in the Union to legalize gay marriage. When it happened, I applauded. I am goddamned PROUD to live in this state.

And while Rick Warren is Anti-choice, and I am female, though a few years past child bearing age, I still have daughters and stepdaughters... granddaughters...friends...who would be affected by Anti-choice bullshit. Do I want them to have to resort to back street abortions or DIY wire coathanger surgery if it became necessary? NO.

Rick Warren is probably the epitome of everything I find offensive.

But it's a goddamned speech.

You are free to respond to whatever symbolism you perceive in his speech.

But you are NOT free to accuse me...or anyone else, for that matter...of being against basic rights just because we don't give a shit who gives the stinking invocation.

[bigscott]

29. Hitler is the epitome of everything I am against

but i guess it is just a speech

Congrats though on being so wonderfully open-minded when it comes to your gay brothers ans sisters

PEACE

[pipi_k]

38. Yeah, and Ted Nugent

is a hate-filled scumbag wildlife-killing asshole, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy his music.

Mel Gibson's religious opinions suck, so I suppose I should boycott all his movies


Some people have accused Spike Lee of being a racist...maybe I should refuse to watch any of his movies because he's accused of hating white people



um...who else is there to hate or boycott just because their personal beliefs aren't the same as mine?


Sorry, but I got over the whole "the enemy of my friend is also my enemy" bullshit when I was about 12 years old.


I suppose by your reasoning I should also tell some of my friends who ARE anti-gay to go fuck themselves because people aren't supposed to have friends with a different viewpoint.


Grow up, for crissakes...

:eyes:

[QC]

19. So which of your basic human rights has Warren campaigned to have repealed?

That certainly changes one's perspective on all this.

[Gormy Cuss]

20. You stated a simple truth.

It is about a "goddamn" speech by someone who professes to speak with God's blessing. It's a shame that Fred Phelps wasn't tapped instead.

[bluedawg12]

32. There is NO comparison about a bigot who works to take away civil rights

and any of your other lame attempts at comparison.

It's obvious that you it's "just another dissenting point of view."

Have you read this? It may explain why Warren is not like B*** picking say, oh Al Franken. :grr:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7990546&mesg_id=7990546

"Probably most of the people now having hissy fits over Rick Warren ..." -pipi_k

you might want to rethink this after you read the above thread.

[bluedawg12]

35. Listening to Warren ain't getting us jobs- just Warren selling book

$$$$

>>Warren's is a religious tradition that focuses almost solely on personal piety - one's personal relationship with Jesus - with almost no social component, other than to try to legislate personal purity (no gays, no abortion, no sex, etc.). There is amongst his group almost no social work, except as it comes with proselytizing. The newer generation is a little better at realizing that the environment, poverty, and hunger are actually issues that Christians should care about, but they have a long way to go. <<
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7990546&mesg_id=7990546

[bluedawg12]

37. Listening to Warren isn't getting any jobs back. It's heating cultural wars.

Is that getting jobs back?

"Warren's is a religious tradition that focuses almost solely on personal piety - one's personal relationship with Jesus - with almost no social component, other than to try to legislate personal purity (no gays, no abortion, no sex, etc.). There is amongst his group almost no social work, except as it comes with proselytizing. The newer generation is a little better at realizing that the environment, poverty, and hunger are actually issues that Christians should care about, but they have a long way to go."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7990546&mesg_id=7990546

[HeraldSquare212]

24. This is an act in and of itself.

[Bluebear]

34. Pathetic.

[bluedawg12]

36. The ends justify the means on the backs of gays.

I guess some don't know what Warren stands for.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7990546&mesg_id=7990546

[otohara]

43. And This Isn't A "Result"

2 years of campaigning as a friend of GLBT community and this is the first result.

[phleshdef]

44. Didn't you get the memo? Evangelicals aren't Americans.

[LostinVA]

47. Considering many on here are advocating Jim Wallis, I'd say you EPIC FAIL

[phleshdef]

48. Ooooh, you are using forum buzzwords. Fancy!

Can you actually go get lost in VA and stay that way?

[nini]

51. They may be Americans but they sure hate the freedoms it was founded on

THAT is the problem with evangelicals that want to push their so called morality on the rest of us.