You know when it comes to the religious community, Obama is striking out..

[Peacetrain]

With Rev. Wright, the right had Obama in their sites, and it WAS touch and go..

Now with Rev Warren, the left has Obama in their sites, and it IS touch and go.

All kidding aside, I am going to write our PE, and suggest it is time to keep the religious life to himself. He needs to get out of the religious middle, because it draws blood every time.

There is a reason we have separation of Church and State.

[Adsos Letter]

1. Amen!

[NRaleighLiberal]

2. Amen Amen! I think that for me, this is his first absolute swing and miss.

[Dennis Donovan]

3. Very happy to recommend this...

Keep your Jesus off my PEBO!

[IndianaGreen]

4. Lenin said that religion was a private affair

And he also said that "complete separation of Church and State is what the socialist proletariat demands of the modern state and the modern church."

[scheming daemons]

6. Lenin agreed with Thomas Jefferson on that point then...

Lenin was wrong about a lot of stuff... but he wasn't wrong about this.

[Kalyke]

8. That's nice.

:eyes:

Way to prove their point. Lenin? Come on! You KNOW that doesn't work, don't you?

[roguevalley]

28. Jesus said the same thing.

[scheming daemons]

5. You're right about one thing, wrong about another....

Right: It is time we strengthened the wall between church and state.


Wrong: It is not even CLOSE to "touch and go" right now. Those upset with Obama are VERY loud, but there numbers are not as strong as you think.

I'm guessing Obama's next approval rating will STILL be in the high 70s.

[Peacetrain]

7. Oh scheming daemons, I only wish it was only one thing I was wrong about

:rofl:.. I swear the older I get the less secure I am in what I am right about or wrong about for that matter.

[Clio the Leo]

9. There are too many religious voters ......

.... wont happen.

[Peacetrain]

10. Well Clio, I am taking my life in my own hands on this board, but I am a very religious person

I am committed to GOD, and the teachings of Christ, as is Obama.. We Christians get smeared by a very broad brush, but if you commit yourself to being a Christian, that is kind of part of the deal I guess. You end up having eggs thrown at you for the sins of those who claim "Christianity", but have not a clue or are willing to really live by its precepts.

In fact most and I mean most self proclaimed Christians are anything but.. the best any Christian can ever do is ATTEMPT to live a Christan life. Its demands of loving your brother and sister as yourself, is beyond the scope of many people. Just ask anyone of a different race, culture, sexual orientation, even religious heritage that differs from the majority of wherever they live. It is beyond my scope on more days than I care to admit.

That is why as a committed Christian, you will never find a greater advocate of separation of church and state than me.

Too many times historically people have used religion, and this is just not Christianity, but Islam, Buddhism, you name it for political strategies. And that is just wrong.

So I am going to write PE Obama, who I have supported since day one, and plead he separate the religious from the civic.

[Shiver]

31. ...

I don't know you but... :hug: :loveya: :hug: :loveya: :hug:

I can't find the words to say how much I love this one post...

Of course, as a Discordian I am forbidden from believing anything I read, but I think the goddess will let this one slide.

[Peacetrain]

32. I am sure she will

Nice to meet you shiver.. :hi:

[Jennicut]

11. I am very religious as well and religion really has no place in politics

Although the ultra right wing seems to think that it belongs in politics 24/7

[Peacetrain]

12. I could not agree more.. and the ultra right is a prime example of how

some have used religion as a political weapon.

[BeyondGeography]

13. Those who have tried to use his religion-based choices and relationships against him

have also struck out.

Meantime, the fact that he is perceived as tolerant and respectful of all believers and non-believers is an important part of why so few people actively dislike him.

I think he knows what he is doing in this area.

[Peacetrain]

14. I hope so.. this has hit a lot of people in the gut

There was so much "faux" angst over every move Obama made, that it was hard for me to even stop and read about this guy. When the blow up first happened I did not even remember who this guy was.

But when you read his stands, you can see why there is so much anger and pain.

Obama is willing to move in circles where people hate him, and try and reason with them, it is one of his hallmarks.

So I am still in that place, that wants the religious life unhooked from the civic life. Unlike politics, one cannot reason with the religiously intolerant. It has a hook that has nothing to do with God, but with a power base that wants to keep down those that are perceived as different and outside that particular religious tenet.

And I personally many times, cross reference spiritual and connected to a higher power with the word religion. And religion itself as nothing to do with God, and spirituality, it is a code, that a group uses to come together.

My gosh, we have tripped into some very deep waters with having a truly religious or spiritual person at the helm.

I have few gay friends or co workers that I know of. But there is one man I have know for 35 years who is openly gay, and he is maybe one of the most religious or spiritual people I have ever known.

I hope this is a learning experience and growth experience. Just have to wait and see I guess

[Solon]

15. This isn't a "believers vs. non-believers" issue though, its a bigotry versus non-bigotry issue...

I'm really sick and tired of people asking us to TOLERATE bigoted beliefs just because people wrap them up in the pages of the Bible.

[Peacetrain]

16. Who in this thread is asking you to tolerate bigoted beliefs?

[Solon]

20. Its the implication that since Obama is tolerating their beliefs, we should as well...

Believe me, I've seen it before.

[Peacetrain]

25. Solon you will get no argument out of me that seeming to tolerate

hatred and bigotry can promote it. I have seen it also. I have experienced it.

[Solon]

26. Well, some Southern Baptist churches now think so, oh yeah, and an...

OP right on the front page claims that comparing homosexuality to pedophilia isn't hate speech, if you are religious.

[Peacetrain]

27. Well that op is just wrong.. Period.. In fact that is off the charts wrong

and that has nothing to do with being a spiritual or religious person.. Read my #10, lots of people claim to be something they are not, just for the power of it all. It is just wrong

[Peacetrain]

18. Show me the person in this thread asking you to tolerate bigotry.. I will have that post removed

in a heart beat. I have re-read every post in here, and if I am missing the one, please point it out. I do not want it sitting freely in this thread.

[Occam Bandage]

17. And, you know, when people have tried to make political hay with his religious moves,

they've struck out. With Rev. Wright, the right (and Hillary) had Obama in their sights, and didn't hurt him in the slightest. With Saddleback, both the ultra-religious right and the anti-religious left had Obama in their sights, and didn't hurt him in the slightest. Now he's back in the crosshairs. Forgive me if I think he's doin' all right (politically speaking, of course).

The religious middle may "draw blood," but if you can occupy it without bleeding to death, you can gain the trust of millions on both the left and the right. I think he's doing a fine job of that, though I also think that he could have searched for another pastor with broad appeal but without a history of anti-gay rhetoric. Of course, I can't really think of such a person, but still...

[Peacetrain]

19. Well I really would like to see the whole concept of public prayer removed from the civic

I do believe in the separation of church and state completely. Again I am saying this as a deeply committed Christian and follower of Christ myself. My prayers have no place in the public venue.

EDIT: But trust me I am really in the minority opinion on that one

[Occam Bandage]

21. I agree. It's unfortunate that so many Christians seem unaware

of Christ's beliefs regarding private prayer and separation of church and state, to say nothing of the Founding Fathers'.

[Peacetrain]

24. Yep Occam see my post 10.. most who claim to be Christian

are not.. I claim it also, but fall short 90% of the time. It is a very difficult faith to actually live out. To love all others as you would love yourself. Most seem to go 180 degrees opposite of that and want to hate all others not exactly like them

By the way this is off thread.. occam bandage as in occam razor :)

[LibDemAlways]

22. If he felt he had to have an Invocation at the ceremony

why couldn't he have gone with some obscure pastor of a mainstream protestant denomination - somebody nobody ever heard of and will never hear of again. What he's managed to do is further feed the ego of a well-known Orange County snake oil salesman, draw attention to his church, and alienate an important part of his constituency - the base. Not smart at all.

[Peacetrain]

23. Good point, a quaker "friend" would have been a good choice..

Quakers do not have pastors as it were. But LibDemAlways... I would much have preferred if he had had a private service for him and his family. We are not founded on a state religion, we are founded on reaction to a state religion and slavery (ouch on our roots).. and have been battling since the inception of this country to expand out rights to all.

[Generator]

29. I was thinking it was interesting that all

of Obama's big controversies, except for Ayers which was totally contrived-have been about religion.

His pastor, this anti-gay pastor and the Muslim thing. Of course that was totally contrived too.

And then I was thinking about Bill Clinton-SEX. Edwards-SEX.

Mrs. Clinton-mmm her biggest controversies seem to be sticking her foot in her mouth. Not anything very "big".

Which reminds me of Kerry-his awkward way with words sometimes that got him in trouble.

Anyway-it's all religion all the time with Obama. YES, enough religion in government.

AMEN *HA! to that.

HAd to edit* UH oh. spell check changed Obama to IBM. I find this hillarious.

[Peacetrain]

30. you are right..

edit: for spelling.. don't ask me how, but I misspelled are. ~looking for glasses~