How is it everyone hates Rick Warren for his GLBT views and not for his anti-abortion views.

[dkf]

Weird.

[cali]

1. I think the point would be that CA just snatched equal rights away from

the Gay and Lesbian community.

[dkf]

11. I'm just kind of amazed how the old standard litmus tests have changed.

And why do we only focus on CA? Many other states have instituted these kinds of laws. But the biggest law regarding this is the DOMA. Where is the condemnation of Bill Clinton who make this state by state stuff relevant?

I stand back and I'm bemused where all the blame falls, all on Rick Warren and the Mormon Church, none on the voters and none on Bill Clinton and everyone in congress who voted for DOMA.

[NorthCarolina]

21. Why Focus on CA you ask? Well, how about the fact that GLBT citizens

in CA were granted the right to marry by the courts, 18,000+ did so, and then Prop 8 came along and stripped away those rights. CA is unique in that regard where existing rights were stripped from the community.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

2. I hate him for pretty much all of his views

[LostinVA]

3. You haven't been reading the threads, then

His views on choice, GLBT rights, and his belief in the subordination and inferiority of women have been decried over and over and over again.

What's weird is that people are SUPPORTING the choice of a man who believes all of this stuff -- plus lots of other very undemocratic ideas.

[Divine Discontent]

5. agreed. it's been in many threads. eom

[Divine Discontent]

4. everyone is a blanket statement

and, like the other person said above, abortion is legal, and his views on it have been discussed in several threads, but it's because he was a proponent of prop H8 in a big big way, and he just called Gay people marrying the same as marrying a child and thus raping them, marrying your sister or brother, or marrying multiple women. That's more than likely why. Plus, it's alright to shit on Gay people and get away with it, proof? Obama chose a guy that JUST did it this week for his Inaugural Invocation!

[lapfog_1]

6. I hate him for his dangerous dominionist views.

Those are the "unknown knowns"... everything else which is reprehensible are pretty much the "known knowns"

(to borrow from the war criminal, Donald Rumsfeld)

[polichick]

30. delete - wrong place

[Bucky]

7. I don't hate him. But I've been clear in saying that his selection is offensive to...

... anyone who believes in civil rights, whether it be the right of all Americans to marry whom they choose or the right of woman to control their own bodies.

This is a tough controversy for us to work through; please don't make it worse by over generalizing about the people who disagree with you.

[dkf]

16. I'm just commenting on an observation.

What is all this stuff about disagreeing with whoever?

I'm cool with gay marriage. I figure why should anyone's marriage be my business. Its not the hill I would die on though, and neither is choice, or equal rights. Passing a law won't change the opinion of people with an impact on my life...like my boss who has very sexist attitudes.

[Bucky]

18. I respect your honesty. Just out of curiosity, what hill *would* you "die on"?

I'm trying to think of issues I'd really go to the mat for. I wouldn't say I'd throw it all in for gay marriage, either, but I'm still one of the loud voices here (measured, but loud) denouncing the selection of Warren for the invocation. Of course for saying this selection was wrong, I've been repeatedly accused of being "opposed to Obama", which is kinda dumb, but I guess dumb happens on the internet occasionally.

[dkf]

25. My family.

That is probably about it.

My opinion is that going at prop 8 is the wrong stance anyway. Better to attack DOMA. Prop 8 is an outgrowth of DOMA.

[Pale Blue Dot]

8. How come people post strawmen instead of real arguments?

Weird.

[Solon]

9. Look at my thread, and it predates yours, kinda slow on the uptake there, aren't ya? n/t

[dkf]

13. Its not on the last 4 pages.

I saw your poll and a couple of other posts.

I guess if I read the entirety of DU I could find it, but predominately, the Rick Warren posts are GLBT related.

[Solon]

14. No, in most of my responses, I mention choice...

especially in the posts about those claiming we can "win over" evangelicals. My most typical response was, "Not when Obama makes his first Pro-Choice or Pro-Gay speech".

I will admit that his anti-GLBT views take prominence, but remember this, pro-choice views have 60+ percentage point support in this country right now, and all anti-choice bills were defeated this last election cycle. The same cannot be said for anti-GLBT rights bills.

[dkf]

15. I think you mistake the point of trying to win over evangelicals.

Obama has a lot of things he has to get done, much more than social issues. He's trying to keep our economy from collapsing for goodness sakes. Therefore, he needs everyone to be open to him on the things that this country needs to do to survive.

Gay marriage would be nice, but for most people a healthy economy is more impactful on our lives, including the GLBT population. No sense having the right to pass property when there is no property to give.

[Solon]

19. Somehow, I just knew you'd pull the "Civil rights isn't important enough card." I just knew it.

Go away.

[dkf]

26. Hierarchy of needs.

And I've got a boss who has told me he will let me succeed him but then keeps telling me a female can't do this job. Of course telling me I'll get the business keeps me working 13+ hours at not so hot pay. So I get what people's attitudes can do to influence our lives. I also get what laws won't do, which is to change sexist or homophobic attitudes.

[AllentownJake]

10. Well if he had been a vocal supporter of taking away Abortion Rights

in a state and it happened I'm guessing that would be the first issue to come to mind.

He also gave W a fucking Peace prize, yet some people still are trying to sell me he is a good guy because he pays lip service to global warming and Aids.

[JI7]

12. because gays are a group of people so it's viewed as a hatred of people

while abortion is viewed as a "thing" procedure of which people have a difference of opinion.

of course abortion is about a lot more and women's rights and many who opposte it do so for control rather anything else. but you even have pro choice people saying things like "i disagree with abortion personally but am pro choice" .

also as some have already said , Gays have already been treated like crap this past election. many ballot measures having to do with abortion failed/passed resulting in pro choice victory while the opposite was true with gay rights.

Warren was one of the supporters of prop 8 which have hurt gays and to pick him is offensive.

but what you say isn't really true as there have been many criticisms of Warren's words on abortion and many other things that don't have to do with gay rights.

[tsuki]

17. It is his view of women. The man is a raging misogynist. Women

are spiritually inferior, in need of constant supervision to make sure they are submissive enough.

[JerseygirlCT]

20. Yup. Makes me crazy-angry

I'm upset on all counts - what it adds up to is a man smugly comfortable in his own superiority and quite willing to bend theology to support that superiority. The irony is that he sells zillions of books telling other people all about how to behave when his own behavior is so in need of adjustment.

He's wrong. And his mild-mannered delivery doesn't make him any less wrong.

[tsuki]

28. He describes his mild mannered delivery as "tone." He said that

he only differed in "tone" from James Dobson, not substance.

[Ilsa]

22. Alot of his views, dressed up in casual apparel and a happy face, are disgusting

to me for their mysogyny AND homophobia. He's disgusting, and I believe his priorities are wrong.

[babylonsister]

23. I'm also angry at his non-support of stem cell research. nt

[muriel_volestrangler]

24. Perhaps because the changes in laws are needed in GLBT rights, not abortion rights

Obama needs to actively push for DOMA and DADT to be overturned - there's already been a hint that DADT has gone to the bottom of his priority list, and won't get changed for ages, until the senior military people have got used to, and happy with, the idea.

Federal abortion laws, on the other hand, are pretty much what we want them to be. I suppose the one worry would be an appointment of a judge that would overturn Roe v. Wade - but somehow this doesn't look like a harbinger of that.

[AZBlue]

27. I was wondering the exact same thing.

[ecstatic]

29. I think opponents of sexism and antisemitism are not very outspoken

or visible?

I mean, we all oppose those things, but there just isn't much noise made about it for whatever reason.

:shrug:

[polichick]

31. For me, it's the whole package - gays, women, and him as a con man.

[IndianaGreen]

32. I pointed this out when I wrote to Obama's Change org

This thread discussed the NOW statement on Warren's misogyny:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8009227&mesg_id=8009227

and:

Man and dinosaurs lived at the same time. There was never a time when dinosaurs ruled the earth. From the very beginning of creation, God gave man dominion over all that was made, even over the dinosaurs.

<snip>

Because membership in a church is an outgrowth of accepting the Lordship and leadership of Jesus in one’s life, someone unwilling to repent of their homosexual lifestyle would not be accepted at a member at Saddleback Church.

http://www.saddlebackfamily.com/membership/group_finder/faqs_smallgroup.asp?id=7509#q_49

[pipi_k]

33. That's something I had pointed out

in a couple of other threads elsewhere.

Gays are claiming the outrage as their own...grabbing it and running with it.

But the truth is, Rick Warren hates women as much as he hates gays. If he could, he would take away our Pro Choice rights. He would probably sit and pee himself in glee to see women die at the hands of backstreet butchers...or at their own hands by way of rusty metal coathangers.

He likely views us as nothing more than second class citizens, subject to the rule of our husbands...those of us fertile enough to have children, nothing more than brood mares.

He hates children after they're no longer "innocent" fetuses. I'll bet he could watch a little child being beaten and abused and not feel a thing as long as that child is "given life" by being allowed to be born (in order so it CAN be abused).

And I'll just bet he's got a few nasty words to say about minorities as well...

Sounds like the only people Rick Warren doesn't hate are White Heterosexual Men just like himself. Oh, yeah..and those unborn babies....


The rest of us, he would just as soon see behind bars someplace.

Or maybe even dead.


Mostly I just feel sorry for him for being so far from the love that his Jesus allegedly preached.


He's a sorry excuse for a human being, but I still cannot work up the level of outrage some people think is "appropriate"...and because I can't, I'm accused of being this far [] from being a true homophobe.

It's all so tiring...