When Obama makes a decision that really angers the righties, should he change it under pressure?

[RiverStone]

Of course not!

For the record, the Obama team made a big, albeit rare mistake in inviting the bigot Warren to give the invocation. Zillions of threads already on the short-sighted, insensitive, hurtful nature of that choice.

Yet I do not believe he should rescind the invite under pressure from the left, any more than he should rescind a future decision that infuriates the right. This will not be the first time he feels the heat of a choice.

Thousands upon thousands of people turning their back when Warren speaks will make for some very compelling images. President Elect Barack Obama will be witness to the consequences of this choice, as will much of America. Call it on-the-job training to be president.

Yet ultimately, I believe President Obama will forward many other wise choices that will advance our progressive agenda. In the area of civil liberties, as much as we hate Warren for his bigotry, Obama will do far more than * ever lifted a finger to do. And on the war of aggression in Iraq, the environment, a woman's reproductive freedom, workers rights, and the travesty of Gitmo - just to name a few, Barack Obama will make decisions which will get the wingnuts up in arms.

He will not back down for them either; and when he does not, we will celebrate his strength for not doing so!


peace~:)

[valerief]

1. The righties are always wrong, so why should Obama do something wrong? nt

[last1standing]

2. So you want us to celibrate his strength for insulting us and pushing us to the sidelines?

Interesting concept.

[RiverStone]

7. Not for this decision, but I expect a few years down the road...

...the GLBT community will feel a lot less pushed to the sidelines than you (understandably) do now.

He fucked up, no doubt.

But he is only in the early steps of a marathon, there are far more actions ahead to be decided in your favor, then this one very insensitive decision against it.

Time will tell....but he needs time as president first.

[Maven]

3. When he makes a real, principled and unwavering stand in favor of GLBT rights

whether it's on DADT, DOMA, ENDA or what have you - and I mean a strong, principled stand, with action behind it, I'll reconsider the significance of this choice.

But to me, the significance of this choice is that such action will never happen.

[Solon]

4. It would be nice if he came out in support of Same Sex Marriage.

I mean, he won the damned election, what's stopping him now? Is he going to wait until he's a lame duck?

[RiverStone]

5. Obama said yesterday he has been a fierce advocate for GLBT rights...

Harvey, you have every right to be doubtful given the hypocrisy of the Warren decision, but if Obama proves that over time he walks his talk AS PRESIDENT, you may eventually forgive his stupid political choice, in consideration of the many (future) decisions he makes in favor of GLBT rights.

I hope I'm right, and I hope he means it.

He has lost lots of credibility with the GLBT community, but he can earn it back; and I believe he will.

[Maven]

6. He hasn't been a "fierce advocate" by any stretch of the imagination.

And before some acolyte blesses this thread with another copy and paste job I'm well aware of his platform.

Shout-outs in speeches are nice, but his record so far isn't that of a fierce advocate.

He has lost credibility, but more importantly, he has permanently lost the trust of those who forgave him the first time.

We'll see what he does, but as I said, this is now a pattern that does not make me hopeful.

[RiverStone]

10. He is not president yet...

I hope he has not "permanently" lost that trust.

Yes, he needs to earn it back.

I'm not defending this Warren fiasco at all, I'm only suggesting he has not had one iota of real power as pres yet.

OK, Barack Obama says he has been a fierce advocate - then he finally will have a chance to walk his talk starting in late January. I'm hopeful that he will.

It's too early to be less than hopeful; after 8 years under the rule of the most criminal regime in US history --- I choose to remain hopeful.

[Occam Bandage]

13. His record is strong but remains mainstream. That may be a good or a bad thing.

It's interesting, though, that you dismiss his "shout-outs in speeches," but then complain that he has lost credibility and trust...because of speeches (given by other people, to boot).

[Maven]

19. His record is light on gay rights.

As far as the positions taken, the effort expended and the results achieved.

As far as his presence and visibility within our movement.

It does not deserve to be characterized as "strong" and certainly not "fierce."

[laconicsax]

9. Fierce advocates for GLBT rights don't say "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman."

[RiverStone]

16. But he is the advocate ya got....

As president anyway.

I hope the GLBT community can still find a way to work with Obama, despite the anger currently directed at him.

Gavan Newsom, Mayor of SF, said on Rachel Maddow last night he still believes Barack will prove his commitment to the GLBT community. It sounds like some here have already totally lost ALL faith this can happen.

He still, IMO, at least is willing to explore a dialog - something Shrub and Shooter would never do. Things can only get better than they have been (after Warren's rambling is over).

[laconicsax]

30. The GLBT community shouldn't have to find a way to work with Obama.

[RaleighNCDUer]

31. And when he repeals DOMA, and eliminates all federal restrictions

making civil unions completely equivalent to marriage,

are you going to bash him because his definition of marriage is not the same as yours?

Or are you going to go with the completely legally equal civil union, call it a marriage, and get on with your life?

My sister and her partner got married two years ago. They have no rights whatsoever.

Marriage is not the issue - the rights is the issue.

[Occam Bandage]

8. Stay the course! nt

[frylock]

32. exactly!

steadfast and resolute.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

11. So basically, the elements of Bush's personality we must abhor, Obama must now adopt? nt

[Maven]

14. Excellent point.

[RiverStone]

17. The difference is minus the Warren choice, Obama will make tons of GOOD choice...

Shrub did not know his ass from his elbow.

I have faith we elected a Democratic President - albeit a centrist and right of DU - we elected him because he will make far better choices for America.

Yea, we abhor Shrub's arrogance - but Shrub is also an idiot.

Obama will need to live with the rain he placed on his parade, but I can't fathom he will all of the sudden say...never mind Rick, go home. He just won't.

[Sebastian Doyle]

18. I'd like to believe Obama will make "tons of good choices"

But his cabinet picks sure as Hell aren't looking that way :evilfrown: Nor is the Prick Warren thing.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

22. I wish I could say yes. I no longer know what to think.

Obama is more interested in ingratiating himself with right wingers, and being a Ronald Reagan, than anything else.

Let him piss off the ones that did the footwork door to door and opened their bank accounts to him and see if the right wingers he's smiling at will do the same in 2012.

And what about this whole thing about how he was going to bring the taxation rate back up for the mega-rich? He's decided he's not going to do that.

[rpannier]

12. The right did NOT vote for him so it is not similar

In addition, strength of character is the ability to admit a mistake and undo it. His refusal to do is what DUH-bya would do.

Rick Warren will NOT change and this will raise his status and aid in his fundraising abilities

To give a man who equates gays with pedophiles, polygamists and incest a forum like this sends the wrong message

This WILL NOT help GLBT at all.

[polichick]

15. "The right did NOT vote for him so it is not similar" - I agree.

[RiverStone]

21. But Obama said on election night (to the right) 'I will be your president too'

I'm not defending the Warren choice, I agree 100% that he blew it.

But down the road, I want Obama to be UNCOMPROMISING on protecting reproductive freedom, the environment, ending the damn war etc.

I want the righties to know that CHANGE will happen, and they need to deal with it.

I would be shocked if he admitted he made a huge mistake on the heels of assuming the mantle of president. Rather, lets assume he will make far, far more decisions that will anger the right.

[rpannier]

25. There are plenty of people on the right he could have chosen that are not as

repugnant as warren to do the invocation.

I am assuming that he will be inviting the Grand Dragon of the KKK and the leader of the Aryan Brotherhood to the inaugural ball.

Afterall, he's their president too.

[RiverStone]

27. Be angry!!!! But eventually I hope you can work with him n/t

[Bluebear]

20. You dance with them that brung you. The right did not vote for him.

[RiverStone]

24. IMO, this BAD decision will not change

Yet, can you still work with Obama knowing that he will still make many better ones down the road?

[demokatgurrl]

23. They didn't vote for him

We did.

[RiverStone]

26. Yes we did, and despite this BAD decision - I still have faith that...

he will do far more good then not when he IS actually president!

Can you still work with and/or for Obama demokatgurrl?

...even feeling betrayed or dismayed or angered at the moment?

[demokatgurrl]

28. Sure, I can work with him but I am sorely disappointed

I'm not gay but I have plenty of other reasons to oppose Obama's selection of a narrow-minded right-wing bigot to offer a prayer. And I don't even PRAY myself. I'm not a Christian but from what I understand of Christ, hatred and bigotry was not what he was teaching. So how can these folks call themselves Christians?

This guy is also anti-science, anti-choice... he's a neocon's dream.

And I wasn't even one of those stars-in-their-eyes supporters who thought Obama was some kind of lefty. I KNEW he was a moderate, a centrist.
But hell I bet even Bill Clinton would not have gotten involved with Warren.

[T Wolf]

29. I think it will be a long wait for a decision that "really angers the righties" if his

post-election behavior is any indication.

Have not seen one yet. And the praise he is getting from the right (the less-rabid portion) is also an indication that he is not doing enough (anything) for the left.

We are not whining because we are not getting everything we want. We are getting nothing.