I'm not a One Issue Voter (Re: Rick Warren)

[Infinite Hope]

While I strongly support gay rights, I'm not a one issue voter.

Further, there are other clergy who will be participating in the inauguration who are sympathetic to the gay cause. There's bound to be a clergy involved who isn't.

Further yet, we have to remember that Rick Warren is leading a significant change in evangelism that is overall far more "liberal" taking issues like poverty and the environment head on.

If the selection was a Pat Robertson, who is wrong on about every issue, I would have a problem with it. But for one of the many clergy involved to be wrong on one issue...I can't get hung up on that.

It's interesting how some Democrats who cuss one-issue voters are, themselves, one-issue voters when that one issue is important to them. So is it so wrong when pro-lifers get hung up on "the rights of the unborn" when you are hung up on "the rights of gays?" In both cases you have people who are passionate about their issues. In both cases you have people who are focused primarily on one issue.

Kick and Recommend if you agree.

[last1standing]

1. Look everyone! Another "Get Over It" thread!

We haven't seen nearly enough assholes tell us to shut up about our basic human rights today.

[MarkInCA]

2. Nor have we had enough assholes mocking other poster's opinions n/t

[ProSense]

3. No, it's not a get over it thread

It's an opinion. You might not share it, but the OP doesn't tell you what to think.

Comments like yours are over the top.

[Left coast liberal]

20. sounds like they were sharing their opinion.

But, maybe that isn't ok on DU anymore?

I didn't read anything in the post about STFU and Get over it. Didn't you just bring that up?

Maybe your point is that the poster should STFU and get over it because your mind is made up.

[yourguide]

23. And we havent seen nearly enough threads

flogging Obama and Warren either. :sarcasm:

[AZBlue]

29. I agree, someone here's definitely an asshole...

[deadlyaj]

47. get over it

hes been against gay marriage from the start

[No Elephants]

54. And therefore no one should give him flack for that? By what logic is that so?

[Skittles]

61. disappointing how many of them are on DU

it fucking sucks indeed

[Champion Jack]

4. These are my top issues

Universal Health Care, Economy, a Green Economy /climate Change, ending the stupid war in Iraq

[Seen the light]

5. "So is it so wrong when pro-lifers get hung up on 'the rights of the unborn' when you are hung up on

'the rights of gays?'"

"..................."

[No Elephants]

55. Apples and oranges. People who are "hung up" on the rights of the unborn seek to deny

women control over their own bodies. Granting GLBT's their rights does not do anything commparable to that.

[Sebastian Doyle]

6. OK, how about some other issues then?

How about a right wing extremist asshole in charge of Transportation?

How about a corporatist piece of shit Monsanto shill in charge of agriculture?

How about someone who would obliterate Iran, based on the word of 5 crazy Likud bastards in Tel Aviv, as the voice of US foreign policy?

How about keeping the bastard who was the overseer of at least the second half of 4,000 dead Americans in charge of "Defense"

How about a Wall Street "self-regulator" running the SEC (which is like a Catholic priest regulating pedophiles)?

How do you feel about THOSE issues?

[Infinite Hope]

13. His nominations haven't all been who I'd have picked, certainly...

I'd have picked people like:
Robert Kennedy Jr. for one of the top environmental posts and one of Bill Richardson or Wesley Clark for Secretary of State, for example.

[phleshdef]

7. Obama supports giving gays the same rights and protection from discrimination and hate crime.

I know, someone is going to respond with a big hang up over calling it a civil union vs calling it a marriage. Before you bother, fuck off and stop shooting the cause in the foot. There are a lot of anti-gay sentiments in this country and we have to take baby steps. All you people do when you get hung up over not getting everything all at once is hurt the cause of getting anything at all.

African Americans had to progress to equality in baby steps, you can do it too.

[Bluebear]

8. "Before you bother, fuck off" - nice.

[bicentennial_baby]

10. You don't even understand the difference between a civil union and a marriage

do you? If you did, you wouldn't say that we have a "big hang up"

:eyes:

[RaleighNCDUer]

21. Neither civil unions nor marriage mean shit

unless DOMA is repealed.

And repealing DOMA has been a significant part of Obama's platform for years.

Only with repeal of DOMA can there be federal recognition of marriage. And with repeal of DOMA, the federal restrictions which prevent civil unions from being equivalent with marriage will disappear.

[phleshdef]

27. Thank you. Obama understands the path to acheiving gay rights better than most on DU do...

Repeal DOMA, support civil unions, ban employment discrimination for gays and increase hate crime legislation.

I also think people need to realize that the House and Senate has to also be involved in any legislation passed and Obama can't just declare gay marriage legal with the stroke of his hand.

[No Elephants]

59. Civil unions are not equal rights. Pretending they are does not change that. Separate but

equal is invidious discrimination. Brown v. Bd of Ed. Marriage is a basic human right. Loving v. Virginia.

Fudging the issue by calling civil unions gay rights fools no one.

[No Elephants]

57. Civil unions will NEVER be equal to marriage.

[No Elephants]

56. FLAME BAIT ALERT.

[Raineyb]

80. Nobody should have to progress to equality in baby steps.

And what makes you think AA's got full equality?

Regards

[mmonk]

9. A person's rights are of utmost value in a free society.

Calling it one issue voting tends to make it smaller than it really is. Maybe those who can not tolerate rights for another should be the ones labeled as such.

[QC]

11. One's own rights are of the utmost importance. Other people's rights, however,

are just single issues.

[No Elephants]

58. Yes, but only if you are a selfish, self-centered asshat. With tunnel vision. (See John Donne).

[Infinite Hope]

15. Pro-lifers are standing up for rights too...and yet they're criticized. n/t

[No Elephants]

62. Anti-abortion does not equal pro life. And those who claim to be pro-life

stand up for the rights of the unborn totally disregardthe right of a pregnant woman to make decisions for herself that involve her own body and her own health. So they are playing God, controlling others, deciding whose rights are more important and whose life is more important. God is equipped to make those kinds of decisions. They are not.

[mmonk]

79. My favorite saying is "prolife is the lie of the prowar voter".

[Bluebear]

12. Rick Warren is not leading any "liberal" change. He is a pretty talker, friend.

He won't even let gays JOIN his church.

[RaleighNCDUer]

22. And yet, he is pro-environment, anti-poverty, and favors

AIDS research.

He's no liberal, but he's not Pat Robertson either. He's a homophobe, whether by inclination or by religious conviction, but he's hardly the epitome of evil.

[otohara]

30. There Must Be Thousands of Reverends, Pastors, Priests

that are all the things you mentioned and they welcome GLBT folks into their churches. The good Rev. Warren does not. IMO, that's pretty fucking evil.

[Infinite Hope]

31. And some of them will be participating in the inauguration. Not every pastor involved has to have...

approval of every interest group.

[otohara]

40. What Other Interest Groups

besides maybe the KKK are asked not to attend their church on their websites?

Aren't churches supposed to reach out?

Only the real evil ones post "no homos" allowed.

[Metric System]

35. Lipstick on a pig.

[LibraLiz1973]

37. Evil enough to seek to deny rights to Human Beings. I'm sure Hitler had some stance that made him

acceptable too.

[MadHound]

66. He's also anti-women and anti-semetic,

Not the greatest guy in the world after all. Not somebody that a PE should really be giving such a place of prominence to, given his hatred towards various groups of people

[RaleighNCDUer]

44. And why, exactly, would you WANT to?

Be real.

[Lars39]

14. Warren's not a single-issue huckster, either...he's anti-woman

and anti-science, too.

[No Elephants]

60. And anti electing anyone who is pro-choice and anti-separation of church and state. Yep, a real

multi-tasker, that Warren.

[Bucky]

16. I don't get "hung up on the rights of gays". I get hung up on unalienable rights

I know it's not the only issue out there. Lord knows that Mr Bush has left enough work for the next generation of American presidents to unfuck. But I don't think anyone is seriously going to give up on Obama or try and stop him from doing his job over this issue. What we're going to do is speak out when an enemy of equal rights under the law is given a place of honor.


I respect your position, even while I disagree with it. All I ask of those who don't agree with me is please do not to tell me to shut up. Obama has the right to ask whoever he wants to come give the prayer for the inaugural ceremony. If it's a bad choice, I have the right to protest. Don't tell me I don't.

Shit, I'm not even gay. This isn't really "my" issue. It's not me they're coming after... at least not this time. When they come after your ass, I'll speak up then, too.

[Infinite Hope]

18. Very reasonable response.

I agree with and appreciate your very reasonable sentiment.

I disagree with those that insist every pastor has to be friendly to their respective group or those who insist their group must be represented by a cabinet post, however. I have ancestry from about 14-15 countries/ethnicities. Should I have a cabinet post for each? No. I understand people wanting those kind of breakthroughs, but one thing Obama has done is promised to pick pragmatic centrists who are capable managers. While I am not fond of a few of his picks, I'm not going to insist he should have made picks that were favorable to me. Every pick is going to be disagreeable to someone. I realize I have digressed into cabinet posts, but it's a related topic, heh.

[FrenchieCat]

17. I believe that we will all soon see

How this turns out. Whether it brings to us more people to support the cause of Gay Rights, or at the very least, gives Obama an opportunity to make a case for major progress on the issue of civil rights for all.

Certainly, when a majority has the say-so over a minority, attempting to persuade the persuadables to join our ranks to grow our numbers has got to be useful. If Warren speaking makes folks who normally might not follow the inauguration as closely....stay tuned to hear what Obama has to say, it may make it easier so that the next time we need a majority, we will be able to gather it.

So I agree that attitudes won't be changed just because feet are stomped. That might have worked in the days of the 60s civil rights era, but the difference then is that the White folks didn't get a vote on what the courts ruled. Now, for whatever the reason, this sadly seems to be the case. I still don't understand how that happened.

[yardwork]

19. Who is voting? I'm confused. What vote?

[mondo joe]

24. you don't have to be a 1 issue voter to care about civil rights or decency. NT

[Infinite Hope]

32. That's what pro-lifers say. n/t

[jberryhill]

25. Pull!

[NorthCarolina]

26. Pat Robertson would have never been given even a passing thought as he is

openly racist and openly anti-semitic.

[crappyjazz]

28. I have never been a one issue voter ... but I am one now.

I'm tired of it.

[LWolf]

33. Neither am I.

I have a bunch of issues that are important to me: Peace, civil liberties, education, health care, just to start with.

Obama fails all of them.

[Marrah_G]

34. wow, just wow

I'm guessing you have full civil rights.

Otherwise you would not be so condescending towards those who are upset at having their taken away because of how they were born.

It's not some pet issue.

You have members of DU who's marriages are going to be voided without their consent and others who were stripped of the same opportunities you have.

To simply call them one issue voters is offensive and insulting and frankly should NEVER be allowed on DU.

[LibraLiz1973]

38. I am seeing, quite clearly now, where alot of the Yes on 8 votes came from

and alot of them came from right here.

[Infinite Hope]

41. Yeah, because thinking it's merely "ok" to choose Warren means we oppose equal rights.

The two are not mutually exclusive. Perhaps you should read skinner's post.

[LibraLiz1973]

36. So the fact that Warren is a bigot who equates homosexuality to pedophelia isn't a big enough ISSUE?

[LibraLiz1973]

39. Ugh, those pesky gays and their "rights". It's just 1 unimportant "issue"

:sarcasm:

[Infinite Hope]

42. A lot of Dems say that about pro-lifers. The argument pro-lifers make is the same...

both, in their eyes, are standing up for a person's rights. I find it humorous how the irony is lost on a few people here. Granted I'm pro-choice and pro-gay rights, but the irony and hypocrisy on being a one-issue person is amazing. For the record, I'd have never picked Warren...not in a million years. But I understand the desire to put someone like him at the forefront in order to change the agenda of evangelicals to include pro-environment and anti-poverty issues.

[LibraLiz1973]

45. Abortion and being gay are not the same at all

[Infinite Hope]

43. ALSO, both sides isolating themselves from each other won't accomplish anything.

Change comes from both sides beginning to associate with each other and creating a comfort with one another. As those who are homophobic begin to interact with homosexuals, tolerance, acceptance, and even support will drastically increase. This lesson can be easily identify in many past civil rights struggles.

[Solon]

46. I love it when civil rights are reduced to "one issue"...

It must feel so good to lord your obvious superiority from a position of security, isn't it?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

48. The stupid is strong in you.

Anti-choicers don't have their civil rights taken away like gay people do.

[Fearless]

49. Umm actually they do...

Different rights granted, but they are trying to remove certain rights.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

50. But they frame it as "rights of the unborn."

And in this case, they'd be stripping civil rights from a group partly composed of themselves.

Gay-rights advocates only want equal rights and don't seek to strip anyone else of theirs.

[Fearless]

51. It doesn't matter...

What they think. The fact is that they are losing a right. They are also losing a right by banning same-sex marriage. But they seem to not care too much about THOSE rights. And of course, GLBTQ rights activists want equality. I wasn't arguing that they didn't. Only that both anti-choice and anti-equality people are both losing rights, in essence throwing out their rights. I question the sanity of anyone who throws out their rights. Maybe we can classify anti-choice and anti-equality proponents as having a mental disorder. I think it would make more sense.

[genna]

52. Not necessarily interested in the one issue voter situation

The thing that continues to strike me has an area that will end in loggerheads is how much flack religious voters and voters who don't want to deal with other people's religion give one another. How can we keep fighting over the same grounds?


The Democratic party is supposed to stand for pluralism in society. The Christian right has characterized itself as having a lock on Christianity and on morality. When nonChristian Democrats lay out their case against morals or Christianity they reference only what the Christian right's position on an issue is without having heard or without having sought out the difference in thought within Christian circles on the left.


Part of democracy is the push and pull in different positions. But I thought part of Obama's charm is he symbolized the coming together of differences and ran to be this uniter. Where is this push and pull going to end if we set the terms of debate before anyone actually sits at the table?


Rick Warren has said some ignorant stuff, but I think he actually believes the stuff he says. He reminds me of the people who sincerely believed that MLK Jr. was a rabble rouser and would lead our country back into a Civil War. There is still segregation in church worship on Sunday, but it does not necessarily mean that churches haven't learned to be more tolerant of race (maybe there is a sprinkling of diversity) within its congregations.


Maybe that is the best we can hope in a generation for the Rick Warren type churches in the next generation.

I advocate in pressing forward the point, but I recognize success does come in stages.

[Solon]

64. OK, since when have non-religious people advocated against morals?

Talk about idiocy! Seriously, and the fact of the matter is whether Warren believes what he says or not, and I believe he does, isn't the point, its still hate, hate is hate, regardless of what religion a person USES and ABUSES to justify that hate.

[Infinite Hope]

72. Apparently putting a focus on one moral issue is only okay when we Democrats do it. n/t

[No Elephants]

53. Criticizing Obama for honoring Warren makes me a one issue voter? Huh. Live and learn, but

I'm think yet another false dichotomy alert is warranted.

[cooolandrew]

63. I am just confused by the reaction it's a national day I'm pleased to see everyone in the nation >

share that day even if we disagree. He hasn't defined himself by any legislative error( or success) yet I can't logically beat on him. As you say other churches will be represented and all american should be too. Yes, and some of them we disagree with but on a national day they are allowed to share this event. I feel. This christmas people will share dinner tables with people who share views similar to Rick's are we gonna kick 'em out because we disagree no. Some occasions say we stand together even for just a short while.

[Solon]

65. Warren is defined by Proposition 8, which he advocated for, and which passed...

he attached himself to that, and his very presence in a place of honor in the inauguration sends a message that no, not everyone can share in this event. Why is it so hard to see that?

[cooolandrew]

68. I perfectly understand that I was against prop 8 but not against his right to attend his president's

inauguration. I can't really see it any other way if I am being fair minded. This improves Barack's security and his families I'm all for it. Others who disagree that's fine, it's just for me myself I can't see it any other way. I'm not trying to cause pain or hurt in saying that and I feel earnestly neither is Barack. Those that doubt Barack this strongly this early must not of read his biographies or just have lots or pre conceived ideas

[Solon]

69. He's not just attending, that's the problem...

Look, if he was going to be on the sidelines, with dozens, hundreds, of other people who also disagree with Obama on this issue, who hold Warren's same views on it. We wouldn't even be talking about it now, it wouldn't even be a blip on the radar for most of us. Hell, even I would say that wasn't that big of a deal. But that's NOT the situation, he's going to be saying the Invocation, being placed on the national stage, and having the spotlight, yes, for only 2-3 minutes, but still, the question remains, why should he be put in that position at all?

[give-me-liberty]

67. Hey, This man Stole little old ladies' money, colluded with Republican crime bosses, etc.

but because he's good on world poverty and aids, I'm good. ** NOT **

we should be good to go on his speaking before millions watching the inauguration January 20th..NO THANKS...

this is not about being One Issue..."infinite hope" it's about being UNWILLING TO PUT UP WITH THE VIOLENCE that ensues when bigotry permeates our society in the form of the preachers who people follow and respect.

Warren is not one issue, he represents violence in our schools against LGBT youth and if you don't believe me check your local schools and see if bullying for LGBT is going up or down.. my suspicion is that bullying is increasing all over the US because of the sustained Republican success in decrying the natural nature of the LGBT community ....

[cooolandrew]

70. Violence in general goes up under conservative goverments wherever they are elected. Our

party is in there now and as cynical as Republicans have made folk that will change. But it's still a national day and unless Rick has got a new citizenship he has every right to attend an inauguration don't see why not. That for me personally doesn't mean I condone his opinions or actions just recognise his right to be there.

[bluedawg12]

71. You are a one issue voter, you don't support one issue: gay rights.

Sorry, if you can see that Pat Robertson would be wrong, but, Warren is OK because he does other good deeds, and screws over only gays, then you are a one issue voter, there is one issue you don't care about.
:hi:

[Infinite Hope]

73. So if I care about many issues I don't care about one.

Wow, take a logic course. First, I believe in gay rights. Second, I'd have never chosen Warren. BUT, I understand and accept why Obama chose him and I'm happy that Warren is at the very least moving evangelicals in the direction of a liberal position on some issues.

[donheld]

74. You are exactly right!

And please ignore the fools who are accusing you of a "get over it" thread. That is NOT what this is.

[Leo The Cleo]

75. Rick Warren is Tool

I'm not pleased with a Rick Warren at the inauguration, however, it's not my inauguration. So, I'll wait for policy to decide on the Obama presidency. I also don't particularly care for the inauguration. I didn't vote for an inauguration ceremony. I don't care how it goes down. The only concern for me is how he governs.

[SidneyCarton]

76. Things are calming down, you do not need to stir the pot.

People are in pain, and they manifest their pain through wrath. Letting them work this out is important, and the longer someone tries to shout them down, the louder they will shout. Let them work through their pain.

[reflection]

77. This is a thoughtful piece

on a painful subject. Thank you so much.

[Raineyb]

78. I'm not a one issue voter either

and I think that choosing Warren was deplorable. There are plenty of reasons not to want Warren anywhere near the inauguration.

Regards

[girl_interrupted]

81. One issue? Gays, Women and Jews?

How is that "one issue"? Is there any group Warren "approves" of besides his own sheeple? Gays are compared to pedophiles, Jews are all going to hell because they dont believe in Christ, Women are complete idiots who cannot choose or be trusted what to do with their own bodies and must be "sujugated" to men. I hardly think that is one "issue". Warren has so much hate in him, there's enough to spread it around to many "issues". He's a snake oil salesman who should never have been given the honor of speaking at the Inauguration. There are people out there who are so much more deserving. It's truly a a shame.