Constructive things we can do about this Warren thing

[Jennicut]

We have been going each other on this board with this talk of "get over it", no "you get over it", no "f*ck you, bigot", "bigot, you are being selfish", and my favorite, "looking at Obama's pictures means you are just a celebrity worshiping cultist" and my other favorite "Obama is a total genius and he knows what he is doing". Lets face it, Obama made a mistake. Will it ruin his presidency? For some maybe. For some it will not at all. But the tearing each other apart here is unsettling to me. Most people here are for some form of gay rights and while that might not satisfy some the people here are for the most part on the side of the GLBTers and not on the side of Rick Warren. We all at least have that in common. Lets be constructive instead of destructive toward each other.


*Should we call/plan for for major protests at the inauguration?
*Maybe put money into an ad to play on television about how total gay rights is needed and then show the everyday struggles the GLBT community goes through. Many people would respond to that, talking about how gay teens are mistreated in high school, etc. That might change the mind's of people who don't think the rights of gays are very important.
*Teaching our children that to discriminate against anyone is wrong. My girls are 3 and 4, too young to teach this but by high school or even younger (?) they are not. Discrimination starts at a young age. Don't assume your kids will think just like you if they are not taught any better. Peer pressure can be strong.

My ideas suck in general. Hopefully some here have some better ones.

[Lyric]

1. "Most people here are for some form of gay rights"

Not good enough--not by my standards, and not by the site admin standards either.

[Jennicut]

2. Okay, but where is your idea to be more constructive?

I think it is easier to tear each other down then to come up with a good idea about this Warren thing. I think I am beginning to understand.

[Lyric]

8. Yeah, us gays are just intellectually lazy like that.

:eyes:

By the way--that WASN'T constructive. Practice what you preach.

[Jennicut]

20. I never said gays were intellectually lazy.

I am just as angry as you are but going at each other's throats I think does not do much to solve what we are almost all angry about here. PLEASE don't take my post the wrong way. I feel for you.

[HamdenRice]

3. OK, Comrade Politburo Chairman. Please tell me EXACTLY what my thoughts must be

on this topic!

[Jennicut]

4. Your thoughts can be anything you want.

Anything just some idea, any idea?

[Danger Mouse]

33. Then what is 'good enough' for your standards?

[Lyric]

35. 100% full equality. No second-class alternatives.

[Danger Mouse]

36. That's what I support.

Not every DU'er feels that way. I don't agree, but do we ban people for thought crimes?

[Lyric]

38. Well *I* have no power to ban *anyone*. Skinner, on the other hand, does.

If you think his policy is wrong, I am not the one to be talking to about it.

I personally think it's fine. We gay folks have to tolerate bigotry and hate every day of our lives in the real world, and on unmoderated blogs all over the net. It's nice to have a safe haven where that kind of hate is not welcome.

[Jennicut]

40. I understand but I don't think some people meant to be hateful

I did not even understand the level of hurt here until just recently and now I do get that even trying to explain why Obama picked Warren for this invocation is very hurtful. There really is no excuse but maybe we can do something about it.

[Danger Mouse]

41. Hm.

Where do we draw the line at what qualifies as bigotry?

[yardwork]

88. There are a few things that really are all or nothing. Either a person is for human rights

or they are not.

Thank you for pointing this out.

[Jennicut]

89. Hey yardwork!

I am supposed to be going to bed but this whole thing has kept me up late. I think I am doing much more positive things now then I was before. I hope Jackeens learned that just because you like Obama does not mean he is right on everything. I am glad you called me out the other day, you really opened my eyes a lot.

[crappyjazz]

5. Encourage the Lesbian and Gay Band to drop out of the parade

here is some contact information:

Robb Blackwell [phone]
Judy Ames [phone]
Email: [e-mail]

I also think we need to speak with our wallets, no matter how thin. Those personalities who claim to support gay marriage but are still attending and promoting the inauguration activites no longer receive any financial support from me (i.e. Stephannie Miller's show, or Nova M)

I did some youtubes that were pro-Obama during the election race and I've since removed them all and put up a brief video stating the reason why.

It's small, and may not do much, but it's where I'm starting.

[pecwae]

12. Good places to begin.

Thanks. Would you mind linking to your video?

[crappyjazz]

23. Sure

it's not really anything though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s7kQLDV47k

I worked hard on my Obama videos, but I'm no videographer I'll tell you that right now. Some did get linked to Keith Olberman's message board though.

I'm getting some of my friends to call the band, and when my partner gets off the phone talking to her family, I'm going to call some more :)

[CTyankee]

6. Hi, Jennicut! I've been trying to say this myself. After the initial shock and the venting of

feelings, which are normal, there must be a rededication to more of the real, hard work on this issue at the state level and also at the federal level with our new administration. We can't get bogged down in anger, it will diminish our strength and our resolve. I am a straight woman who is involved in this as much as I was in the Vietnam War struggle, even tho my son was just a little boy at that time and not subject to the draft.

Maybe we straights should be more active in helping nonpolitical folks we know to understand the issue better. I don't know, but I think it can't hurt, don't you agree?

[Jennicut]

27. I'm just glad that gay marriage is legal in CT

[Neecy]

7. well, it's a start

I'd love to see a protest at the inauguration but I don't think Obama would give a damn if we did. He clearly weighed the cost/benefit of his action and took it. I only wish he had imparted his wisdom to me when he was sending me a fundraising email per day.

I think we can, at the very least, convey our disgust to the transition team at change.gov. I think we should encourage the band or whatever the hell it is that's supposed to 'represent' us at the parade to pull out. In the future I'm only going to support, with my time and money, politicians who respect my life in more than just words.

Other than that, I dunno.

[Jennicut]

16. But maybe seeing it up close and at his face WILL make him care

Its better then doing nothing, maybe?

[CreekDog]

9. you mean calling people names on DU isn't enough???

:hide:

[crappyjazz]

10. You're so right

everyone else can use DU to vent or express opinions, just not those whiney, pesky homos

:P

[CreekDog]

11. you're on your own with that statement

i DO NOT agree with that sentiment.

[crappyjazz]

13. I was joking at your joke, didn't mean any offense to you personally

[CreekDog]

14. okay. sorry.

everyone's on edge these days. :pals:

i've been staying out of the fray more than usual on that issue.

[Jennicut]

18. We ALL are. I am glad people are apologizing to each other

It is making me sad to see us at each other's throats on this.

[crappyjazz]

22. I'm sorry too

been bawling all day ... but I'll be alright :hi:

[DevonRex]

15. I emailed change.gov yesterday and voiced my disapproval over

the choice. And I signed onto some email that I got in my mail this morning, saying that it sends a signal that homophobia is tolerated.

The thing is, I don't think Obama can take Warren out of the lineup. So when I wrote change.gov I recommended that Obama have a stong message in his inaugural address about equal rights for GLBTs.

I think your idea for a commercial is a great one. I loved the one done with Jack Black as Jesus over Prop 8. But I think a thoughtful one that brings up issues of marriage and the rights of partners to speak for their hospitalized partners, and inheritance rights would be better. Something that shows real people with real problems encountered because they don't have the right to marry.

[Jennicut]

19. Thanks Jenn Z!

:)
I like the commercial one a lot. I work in the child care field and I wonder what effect the teasing/abuse/etc. has on gay teens and kids of gay parents.

[DevonRex]

29. I worry about that a lot, too. I was in the military and had way too many

friends who were gay that had been bullied and teased endlessly in high school. Then they were kicked out of the Army, one by one. The military is a place where stong bonds are made and our gay comrades were just as much a part of that as anybody else was.

The biggest heartbreak for me was that sometimes they'd be kicked out and whisked away before we even knew what was happening. One day they were there and the next day they were gone. We had no way of contacting them and they certainly weren't welcome to come say goodbye. This was all at the Defense Language Institute. These were proud, good soldiers. We were all considered to be the elite of the military. But suddenly the gay ones were not. When I consider how much they went through as kids, yet STILL wanted to serve this country, I am humbled beyond words. And it still makes me cry. So add to that, that it broke MY heart and all I did was loose some really good friends. I can't even imagine what THEY must have gone through. And they're probably STILL suffering the effects.

Okay. Enough of my personal stories. But I have seen the results of your concern first hand, even though it was not directed at me. If I could find those people and express my sadness and solidarity with them, I would.

Edited to add that there were 2 that I did speak with after they were kicked out. We tried the best we could to offer some comfort, but obviously it wasn't enough.

[Jennicut]

30. That is very heartbreaking

I really hope Obama repeals the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy in the military and we need to keep pressure on him to do it.

[DevonRex]

31. I actually had a talk with Gary Hart about that. And he said he would

pass along my concerns. He was surprised that a straight veteran asked the question, though.

[Cha]

43. Excellent idea, JenniferZ~

"A strong message about equal rights for GLBT in his Inaugeral address".

[DevonRex]

17. Oh yeah, rec'd. nt

[David Zephyr]

21. I hope that this motherfucking bigot is booed and jeered loudly as he "prays".

And if it embarrasses Obama's "moment" then he deserves it.

It is a horrible insult to this gay American who supported him and to my family.

I could care fucking less about his big ego stroke next month.

And he's only appointed 25% women to the 75% men so far. I guess they don't basketball well enough for him.

Obama didn't make a mistake. He made a cold calculated political opportunistic decision.

Karl Rove would be proud of Obama.

[Jennicut]

24. Well, at least getting Warren booed is a start.

"Ego Stroke"....LOL I never heard an inauguration being called that before.

[crappyjazz]

25. Our money is good enough though and of course our entertainment value

but other than that, piss off

I'm more than just disappointed

[Jennicut]

26. I know.

I am really sorry. :hug:
I think Obama is a good man but even good people make mistakes and political calculations and he is a politician. He is not progressive enough on gay rights and that is a problem but I am glad to see people voicing their anger/disappointment and wanting to feel they can DO something about it.

[crappyjazz]

28. Thank you

and thank you as well for your OP

[Ozma]

32. I like your ideas in general..... this is a very constructive approach

to what we are faced with. It's a teaching and learning moment, not a moment for ugly protests, boycotts, and silly stuff.

Very good of you to think this way. I like it!

[Danger Mouse]

34. Who wants to be constructive?

If I insult just a few more people, our side WINS!

[NatBurner]

37. lol

that's what it seems like, huh?

no discussions, just tit for tat zingers

[Jennicut]

39. Yeah, well that is what was getting me down before

I hope on this post people feel like they are actually doing something then just yelling back and forth at each other.

[CTLawGuy]

42. I think everyone at the inauguration

should boo the hell out of Warren, so the prayer gets drowned out.

[Jennicut]

44. kicking to try and get more positive posts around here

:kick:

[Starry Messenger]

45. I wrote to change.gov too.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8009651

[Jennicut]

46. Good. I am going to do the same when I get a chance

I have been back and forth on the board all day, hard to find time with a 3 and 4 year old and a sick husband!

[Engineer4Obama]

47. Donate to a marriage equality cause when Warren speaks

and do it in his name.

I'm doing it on Inauguration day if he is still talking then. Heck I'll probably do it even if his invitation gets rescinded.

[Jennicut]

49. That is a very good idea. Here is one that I found

www.marriageequality.org

[Engineer4Obama]

50. Yep I'm promoting that one in a thread of my own

Here's a link to that thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8011130

The other one that has been recommended to me is InvalidProp8.org.

[Jennicut]

55. Thank You!

[Starry Messenger]

48. Yikes!

Two kids+sick husband=four kids! :D

Thanks for starting the post, I'm sure it will find its audience. I think people just need time to vent.

[Jennicut]

52. LOL...oh yes. We once had a 4 year old rescued lab too

but that did not work out (long story...he charged my 4 year old, had emotional problems) and another person adopted him after we gave him back.

[PatSeg]

54. Here's something positive

Just got an email alert that AG Brown of CA is asking the state Supreme Court to void gay marriage ban.

http://www.sacbee.com/114/story/1487648.html

As for all arguing, I have to say I agree with a lot of people here, but I don't agree with the way they are expressing disagreements. The name calling and yelling is drowning out the reason and logic.

I don't like Rick Warren and I haven't agreed with everything Barack Obama has done. I am quite sure he will do many things that I don't agree with. I can't imagine any president who will. But so far Obama has been better than I had expected and far better than what we've had to deal with for the last eight years. I think it is great that people are expressing their feelings about Rick Warren, but not so great that some are beating each other up.

This is why I keep my visits to GDP few and far between.

[Jennicut]

56. Good to see that.

I still don't understand why CA lets its citizens trample all over their Constitution with these ridiculous prop laws. In CT we voted the ability to have a Constitutional Convention down. Its not just CA its other states too. I really think a state Constitution needs to be thought of as a sacred document first before making all these crazy changes too it. It needs to be thoughtfully done and yet people vote one time in an emotional way and that is it.

[PatSeg]

57. Voters in CA

hate these stupid initiatives. My last voting guide was 50 pages long and later I got a 15 page supplement. The issues are often confusing and one doesn't always know what the right answer is, that's why we hire people like legislators to do this stuff.

Many propositions are often intentionally deceptive and Prop 8 fit that mold. The phone calls, signs, and fliers made it sound like an education or free speech initiative. And of course there were the fliers that made it look like Obama supported Prop 8. It was disgraceful and I don't think this is going to hold up in court.

[Jennicut]

59. Wow, being from CA gives you front row access to this stuff

It really should be thrown out.

[PatSeg]

86. We were shocked when it went through

but people were being bombarded with propaganda. Every other trip to the mailbox brought more crap. They really spent a lot of money on Prop 8 and no one was expecting it.

Here's one of the fliers I received.

[nc4bo]

51. Is a petition a stupid idea? Could it circulate fast enough for maximum signatures?

Could be sent to both Obama's trans team and Warren..

..thinking out loud.

[Jennicut]

53. No I think that is a really good idea

I know many here think Obama will not listen or change his mind about Warren but he needs this in his face no matter what.

[pinstikfartherin]

60. I agree.

Whether it changes anything or not, at least our voices will be heard.

[stillcool]

58. I emailed my Senator and my Congressman

and asked if they could influence Obama to at the very least apologize. I also emailed the members of the Inauguration Committee and asked that they do the same thing. Then I posted at change.gov...I'm sure that many think it's a waste of time, but I don't.

http://inaugural.senate.gov/cmte/

http://change.gov/newsroom/entry/building_the_community_a_guide_to_comments


http://www.congress.org/congressorg/home

[pinstikfartherin]

61. Constructive things would be great..

Seriously-

This thread:
581 Views..
Only 6 Recs and 60 Replies...
And how many threads complaining about Warren?

:banghead:

Come on people.

[Jennicut]

62. Well, some people would rather call each other names then come up with a real goal

I am not sure, but I have tried to keep it alive with my multiple posts. I don't think I am great for starting it either (so please don't flame me!!!), I was just bummed out by all the infighting and it was getting us no where.

[Engineer4Obama]

63. Hey I'll help you keep this thread kicked...

Pipe a little support for mine too if you would. I'm hoping I can get a few thousand dollars raised for those organizations from this.

[Jennicut]

65. Will do! Thanks guys.

:)

[pinstikfartherin]

64. I totally understand.

It's tiring. I've tried to avoid GDP and GD because of this. *sigh*

I'll try to keep this kicked too. You're right, the fighting is getting us nowhere, but apparently no one really wants to discuss what we can do.

[Jennicut]

66. I just saw an unfortunate thread by Jackeens

I understand where she is coming from but the accusations back and forth have to stop. Others against her are doing accusing, it is only escalating more misunderstanding.

[Engineer4Obama]

69. Yep Hate begets Hate

And those Hated are in no way immune to passing their feelings onto to someone else. It just keeps going. The word bigot is getting thrown around way too much and people are ignoring that about 90% of DU is indeed on their side. I really hope we can learn to channel some of that passion in positive directions rather than taking it out on people who actually agree with us.

[Jennicut]

70. Exactly! I have been for gay rights since I was a teenager and Clinton was president

Most of us are for gay rights. The real anger should be at Rick Warren and others like him, and yes even some at Obama for messing up on this. But not at each other.

[pinstikfartherin]

73. Great point!

Our energy should go toward them and not one another. We don't get anything done bickering with each other.

[jberryhill]

67. Suggest the invitation be withdrawn

Can the invite be rescinded?

Yes it can.

I'm not going to kick and scream if it isn't.

But it was done to Wright when Obama announced his candidacy.

Warren's own church website says No Gays Allowed.

That's different from expressing thoughts - that is discriminatory action and is like inviting someone from an all-white or all-men's club. It is a clear disqualification.

[Jennicut]

68. He should, I hope he does

[Juche]

71. Talk about mental health and homelessness in the youth GLBT community

GLBT citizens make up about 5% of the population, but they make up about 30-50% of the homeless children in our country because they were bullied at school or kicked out of their homes.

The rates of suicide, depression and substance abuse among GLBTer is about 5x the level for heterosexuals.

Gay marriage is a move in the right direction to help integrate people back into society. Alot of these problems above (the depression, substance abuse, homelessness, etc) comes down to being treated like a deviant or genetic error.

I think an ad about homeless GLBT children is enough. Just talk about how GLBT kids are dramatically overrepresented in homeless youth, talk about the reasons (abuse, being kicked out and disowned, harassment) and talk about how gay marriage is designed to promote the idea that gays are humans with worth and dignity like everyone else.

[Jennicut]

72. Yes, it is terrible. Here is some info I found on gay teens and suicide

http://www.soulforce.org/article/653

It is heartbreaking what these kids go through. I have worked with troubled kids over the years (have a degree in psych and I am getting a teaching certificate as well). But never troubled gay kids. I can't imagine the abuse from other kids at school, their parents who are bigoted, the community leaders, teachers, etc.

[Juche]

74. Its one of the main reasons I support GLBT civil rights

I would normally support gay marriage just on libertarian principle and the fact that I don't believe the state should be telling people who they can or cannot marry. But the fact that people who identify as GLBT have rates of depression, suicide and childhood homelessness about 5-10x the rate as non-GLBT really forces you to take a stronger stance.

I honestly think if gay marriage were framed as a method of helping gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgendereds feel more welcome and wanted in society and we talk about the human costs (higher rates of homelessness, depression, suicide) that come from feeling rejected by society, would see more support for gay marriage. Most people according to opinion polls are opposed to bigotry against gays, even more than support gay marriag.e

[Jennicut]

75. Yes, and then eventually talk about how gay marriage

can stop depression in adults as well. I imagine not being able to marry the one you love could lead to major episodes of depression/anxiety. Though marriage is not always all its cracked up to be (lots of compromising is involved...been married 7 years)! Still, everyone should have that right.

[sandnsea]

76. I think a bunch of ads

on a variety of issues related to all issues in the GLBT community are a good idea. It's certainly more constructive, and instructive, than booing a preacher for 2 minutes.

[Jennicut]

77. I went on you tube and there are lots of videos there that are very effective

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVjVRGTXr_A&feature=related

[sandnsea]

80. Wow. That is heartbreaking

Do you know if there is an organization that specifically brings attention to all the problems of teens?

[Jennicut]

81. I found this page

http://gayteens.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=gayteens&cdn=people&tm=9&f=10&tt=29&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.youthresource.com/
It has some good resources for gay teens.

[sandnsea]

82. That's good

I'm glad there are groups to provide help, but I was wondering more about an organization that educates the public. Haven't found one yet.

[Jennicut]

84. Me neither. I will keep looking though.

I actually have to go to bed soon, someone has to get up the next morning and be with my 3 and 4 year old and my hubby is sick.

Good night DU!

[msfiddlestix]

78. Changing the Conversation, Calling on a Real Debate (action alert)

The action alert I posted here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8011753

seems to me a step in the direction of constructive action.. :shrug:

[Jennicut]

79. Yup, great idea. Like that courage campaign. Thanks!

[msfiddlestix]

87. thanks!

glad to see this get some support!

[Jennicut]

83. I just found this out about Campbell soup. Lets support them.

I love soup anyways so that is easy for me.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4686901

Campbell Soup supports the gay agenda and I like that.

[pinstikfartherin]

85. Awesome! I will write them and buy more of their products!

[pinstikfartherin]

90. Kick