Some DU polls are surprisingly informative

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

DU polls aren't always super useful, but sometimes you get a real snapshot of something meaningful.

Poll question: Are people who oppose interracial marriage racist?

YES 94% NO 6%

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8007128&mesg_id=8007128


Poll question: Are people who oppose same sex marriage homophobes?

YES 55% NO 45%

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8004820&mesg_id=8004820

[jobycom]

1. K and a big freaking capital-sized R.

[valerief]

2. Looks like the Jesus people aren't interested in racism anymore. nt

[jesus_of_suburbia]

25. I'd say the Jesus people aren't "AS" interested in racism anymore. Plenty still are!

They just get a much bigger kick out of homophobia (and it is more acceptable in society to be a homophobe than a racist these days).

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

28. In my experience younger fundies are quite racially open

I'm sure there are regional differences, but I would guess that evangelical churches are somewhat more integrated than most other denominations.

Partly because it's something you are likelier to convert to as an adult. Partly because mostly-white Evangelical churches are more like black churches than they are like Episcopalian churches. Livelier, more personal, more celebratory.

I know my many white fundy relatives have lots of good church friends of color.

[NorthCarolina]

32. You must not know any Southern Baptists then

eom

[valerief]

33. I try not to.

:hi:

[Renew Deal]

3. Does that tell us that people opposing same sex marriage are bigots®?

or is it a matter of acceptance? To me it seems like it's a matter of social acceptance. Ask this question again in 20 years and I bet the response will be different.

[TechBear_Seattle]

8. What, pray tell, is the difference between a lack of social acceptance and bigotry? n/t

[Renew Deal]

12. A lot in some cases.

Social acceptance

2. A term referring to the ability to accept, or to be able to tolerate, differences and diversity in other people or groups of people. Tolerance. Some opposite notions of social acceptance would include racism, sexism, homophobism, and prejudice in general.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=social%20acceptance

The point is that "bigots" don't know tha they are being bigoted for a number of reasons. One of which is that "same-sex marriage" is still beyond social norms.

[roguevalley]

22. social acceptance is one thing, enshrining in law blatant bigotry

that won't pass constitutional muster over and over again is bigotry. There are plenty of people for whom black/white marriage isn't 'socially acceptable' and they are still called bigots. There is no difference here. It is hatred and unwillingness over something about others that they cannot help and doesn't matter.

[Sebastian Doyle]

9. Do you believe that all people are equal under the law?

(Or in the eyes of God, for those who believe in such a Being)

If you do not, then you are a bigot. There's no way around that fact.

[Renew Deal]

14. Yes, but that's not the point.

The point is that most people wouldn't agree with us.

[Sebastian Doyle]

20. Then why the fuck should we pander to THEM

They are bigots. They are wrong. In their hearts, they KNOW they're wrong, or they don't have hearts at all.

I'm sick of all this "reaching across the aisle" bullshit, because it always goes in only ONE direction. And it sure as Hell isn't to the left.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

23. You have to reach out to them because they won't reach out to you. Because they are assholes.

That last part it what seems to get forgotten sometimes.

[Sebastian Doyle]

30. And the results of all this reaching out....

The Liberals fund the campaign, and the corporatists and right wing shitheads get the Presidency.

Sorry.... my goddamn right arm's been yanked out of it's socket. I'm done "reaching".

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

11. Yes, but wouldn't you expect DU to diverge more from the general population?

On a board where Kucinich usually led primary season polls that 45% is surprising.

But it's not really the same board it was back then, is it?

:eyes:

[Renew Deal]

13. DU is diverging from the general population.

Ask the general population that question and wait for the result. I doubt it would be in the double digits.

[rpannier]

17. Ask the general population about most things and you'll be disappointed

1800's and early 1900's most Americans supported limiting immigration from eastern Europe.
1800's most Americans were anti-Catholic and into the 1900's refused to vote for Catholics out of fear of where their loyalty would lay.
Most Americans opposed the 1954 Supreme Court decision ending desegregation
Most Americans oppose lots of things.
Americans have supported passing hundreds (if not thousands) of draconian laws that have targeted minorities.

Personally, I don't have a problem diverging from public opinion.

[leftstreet]

15. I would have

Those differences are astounding to me.

Jeez. Most of the brazillion red-staters I'm surrounded by have little interest in judging gays. The attitude has changed to "If gays wanna marry, let em. What's that got to do with the price of gas?"

It's soooo disappointing to see the Dems pulling retro wedge issues out of their asses. The country was ready to move forward.

:shrug:

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

21. And considering Kucinich got less than 1% but got about 40-50% on DU...

I mean, this place is so far outside the norm...

But that was then. It may be a lot more "normal" today. Perhaps this is what happens when you win. A lot of people have joined DU over the years because they hated Bush and the war, and thought that holding a 70% view must make them progressive.

Like the Lou Dobbs fans.

[mondo joe]

27. So segregationists in the 60s weren't bigots?

It was just a matter of social acceptance?

[valerief]

34. I don't think gay people want to wait 20 years to get married. They've been waiting. nt

[11 Bravo]

4. Pretty fucking telling, no?

[TechBear_Seattle]

5. Very informative indeed. n/t

[Maven]

6. Yeah, really.

[Lyric]

7. Kick, and off to the Greatest you go.

And yeah--fucking nauseating, isn't it?

[jgraz]

10. Yep.

[pecwae]

16. Sad and not surprising.

[slackmaster]

18. The polls, the OP, and the responses are all very informative

Very informative indeed.

[uppityperson]

19. yup. k&r

[jesus_of_suburbia]

24. I was thinking of this comparison when I was reading the other thread.

I had no idea there was a poll asking about interracial marriage.


I knew that almost everyone would say opposing interracial marriage is racist (which it sure as hell is).

[pecwae]

26. Recs are informative as well:

"I am gay and I'm not upset about Rick Warren."
118 recs

"I'm gay, and I'm tired of the gay overreaction to Prop 8 and Rick Warren at the inauguration."
44 recs

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

29. Yes, I'd noticed that. too The good ole' silent majority.

[bread_and_roses]

31. Revealing indeed. Nothing like denial. (n/t)

[Neshanic]

35. Sadly so. The closet of the Democrats I said existed. When push

comes to shove, there is a faction that retreats to the closet that protects them.

[tbyg52]

36. Says it all. nt

[IndianaJones]

37. hell, people that voted for Prop 8 aren't homophobes either. nt.

[ProSense]

38. Apples and oranges.

Anyone opposed to interracial marriage would likely be opposed to interacial civil unions and interracial dating.

There are people who are opposed to same-sex marriage who are not opposed to civil unions.

[madmadmad]

39. SAME FUCKING THING. APPLES AND APPLES, ORANGES MARRYING ORANGES.

[ProSense]

41. NO IT FUCKING ISN'T

CLEAR ENOUGH?

[Bjorn Against]

42. So does that mean you believe someone could justify opposing interracial marriage...

If they supported a separate but equal institution of interracial civil unions?

[ProSense]

43. Can we deal with reality? n/t

[Bjorn Against]

44. I am simply asking you to back up your post.

You suggest that opposition to gay marriage is not homophobic as long as the person opposing it supports gay civil unions.

This would seem to logically suggest that a person who opposed interracial marriage was not racist as long as they supported interracial civil unions.

What am I missing here? It seems like if you are going to use such an analogy you should be consistent.

I think it is time to admit that opposing gay marriage is homophobic in the same way that opposing interracial marriage is racist.

[ProSense]

45. No you're establishing a hypothetical that doesn't exist anywhere in reality. n/t

[Bjorn Against]

46. I am asking if you would back up an opinion, opinions aren't hypothetical.

I am sure if you asked around at some Klan groups you could probably find someone who wanted to ban interracial marriage, but make a compromise and keep interracial civil unions legal. If someone were to take that position would you think it was racist?

Don't tell me it is a hypothetical question, because there are plenty of racists out there and I am absolutely 100% positive that some of them would be more than happy to give interracial marriage a separate but equal designation.

This is a simple yes or no question that should not be difficult to answer, and if you can't answer it then I think that says a lot about the weakness of your argument on why you think it is not homophobic to oppose same sex marriage.

[Qibing Zero]

48. So? There are people who are okay with interracial marriage as long as there's no procreation

Does that somehow make them any less of a bigot?

But hey, I suppose it would be more reasonable if they had a religious excuse or something.

[eridani]

49. Marriage IS a civil union. What else would you call something occuring in front of

--a Justice of the Peace? Let me know the next time you hear about someone going to church instead of to court to collect child support.

[racaulk]

40. K and R!

That about sums it up, right there...

[TexasObserver]

47. YES is the correct answer to both questions.

[ecstatic]

50. I think some of the interracial marriage polls are interesting

Everyone says they are for it, yet you rarely see it. I think there is more lying involved in polls involving race.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

52. People don't want it outlawed, but many disapprove. (Of all races. too.)

A fair number of people, black and white alike (and probably Asian and Native American, etc.) have a cool reaction to mixed marriage in polling but not to the point of favoring it being illegal. They just don't like it.

And I think same-sex marriage should be the same way... I can understand if someone isn't comfortable with it. I just can't understand people thinking there should be laws that gravely disadvantage someone else merely to ensure their comfort.

That's why I don't call all Prop. 8 YES voters bigots. Most of them probably didn't give it much thought and voted their comfort level without really internalizing the civil/human rights implications.

But the organizers and people who donated and campaigned for Prop. 8 are bigots.

[ecstatic]

54. good point nt

[madeline_con]

51. Intersting. Maybe I'm just not well informed, but what legit reason

would one have to oppose gay marriage (civil unions *sigh*) other than fear?

Someone enlighten me...

[LWolf]

53. Nice.

I wonder what this poll question would show?

"If Obama says it or does it, it's right and good. If he doesn't, we don't need it, and if he's against it, so are we."

Agree or Disagree?