Mike Madden, Salon: "Obama knows. And he doesn't care."

[Amerigo Vespucci]

How the hell did Rick Warren get inauguration tickets?

Barack Obama knows liberals are upset he picked the conservative evangelical preacher to pray at the inauguration. And he doesn't care.

By Mike Madden



http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/12/19/rick_warren/

Dec. 19, 2008 | WASHINGTON -- For more than two years, cozying up to Rick Warren has been one of Barack Obama's favorite ways of showing evangelical Christians that he might not be so scary, after all -- and for just as long, palling around with Obama every once in a while has been Warren's way of trying to show more secular-minded people that he's not so bad, either.

So about the only thing less surprising than the outrage that news of Warren's selection to give the invocation at Obama's inauguration is prompting among gay activists, liberals and Obama supporters generally is probably Warren's appearance on the program in the first place. Obama and Warren have often used each other to demonstrate that they'll be willing to listen to people they disagree with -- and yes, also to let everyone know that they'll be willing to anger their friends. This isn't one of those political controversies that pop up out of nowhere without warning; whether they want to admit it or not, it seems Obama's advisors brought on this fight with his own supporters knowing full well what was coming.

Having Warren speak at the inauguration might make more sense for Obama, now that he's been elected, than going to Warren's Saddleback Civil Forum in August in search of evangelical votes did from a campaigning standpoint. When the ballots were counted he only did marginally better among white evangelicals than Gore and Kerry; the idea now, apparently, is to signal that Obama will be a president for all Americans, whether they voted for him on Nov. 4 or not.

Except that Warren, by this point, isn't just the purpose-driven friendly face of evangelical Christianity anymore. He took sides, very publicly, in favor of California's Proposition 8, which overturned the state's gay marriage law. "About 2 percent of Americans are homosexual, or gay and lesbian, people," Warren said in a widely circulated video (and in a virtually identical e-mail to his congregation) before the election. "We should not let 2 percent of the population determine to change a definition of marriage that has been supported by every single culture and every single religion for 5,000 years. This is not just a Christian issue, this is a humanitarian issue." Prior to that, his late summer Civil Forum, at which he interviewed McCain and Obama, was seen by many liberals as an ambush. Instead of sticking to questions on areas where Warren truly has broken from some religious conservatives, like climate change, the importance of alleviating poverty and preventing HIV transmission, Warren drew Obama and John McCain into a discussion of old-school social conservative hot-button issues: the definition of marriage and whether life begins at conception. Days later, he turned around and blasted Obama's answers on abortion rights, comparing being pro-choice to denying the Holocaust.

[crappyjazz]

1. A politician is a politician is a politician

it's not ever going to change ... and yes, pun intended

[Amerigo Vespucci]

2. That's what I've been saying..."it's politics."

And he knew. Of course he knew.

[Lorien]

41. and hardly "the change we need"

or hoped for.

[polichick]

3. Pretty sad.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

4. Then Obama will get 4 years and nothing more. nt

[ncteechur]

5. wrong--he cannot win by going to the far left-he needs to stay center and slightly left.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

6. Oh? So Republicans can function as conservatives, but Dems cannot function as liberals?

And Dems MUST join bigots, woman-haters, gay-haters and fascists into their fold in order to be allowed to hold office?

[frylock]

25. pretty much..

and if the dems lose in 2012, it'll be because the progressives didn't get in lockstep. i'm done. for fucking serious. done.

[Dennis Donovan]

35. Since when are Civil Rights "far left?"

:eyes:

[jonnyblitz]

37. civil rights are far left to jackasses on the far right nt

[Dennis Donovan]

40. It must be a breeze to be a straight, white male in this country...

Wait... I'M a straight, white male!:wow:


Why do civil rights issues bother me? :shrug:


BECAUSE I have a FUCKING conscience!!!:think:

[Egnever]

9. Riiight

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

11. Then you go on ahead and campaign and give your money....

I did. I took 10 days vacation to canvass door-to-door for Obama. I also gave my money to his campaign.

If this keeps up, in 2012, I'm going to do that for a different Democratic candidate, and my entire family and all my friends who did the same thing are saying the exact same thing.

[Egnever]

14. OK

Good luck with your crusade.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

15. Crusade is what exists when Republicans are chosen over gay rights nt

[BluegrassDem]

21. I'm sure Mike Gravel or Kucinich would love to have vote in the primary in 2012

You're certainly free to support who you want, but don't be fooled into thinking the whole Democratic party feels as you do. Obama will not face any opposition in 2012, and if he does, it's only token. My friends and family care more about the economy than gay marriage. As long as Obama creates jobs and gets his agenda done, he'll win in a landslide...gay marriage only matters to a sliver of the population.

[democrattotheend]

24. Didn't Kucinich support DOMA anyway?

I vaguely remember reading that. Am I right?

[stillcool]

32. And Kucinich was pro-life, anti-choice...

he's <gasped> changed his mind. In this country to either change your mind, believe you can change someone else's mind, or to believe that 'we the people' are the only answer to the ills of our society means that you are a delusional idiot.

[Dennis Donovan]

38. Civil rights should be EVERYONE'S concern!

What the fuck good is this country if we allow bigotry to rob our fellow citizens of their CIVIL RIGHTS?:shrug:

Jeebus - it's THAT simple!!!:banghead:

[girl gone mad]

42. It appears there will be very little distance between Obama and Bush..

on the economy.

He's appointing more of the same corporatist, Wall St. cronies who have been in charge of the economy for the past 28 years. Any "change" will likely be breadcrumbs, for show only.

Ask Gore how Clinton's centrist, Kumbaya platform worked out for the Dems in 2000.

Moderates saw no difference between the two parties and went with the cowboy who promised smaller government and lower taxes. Think those ideas won't be popular after 4 years of multi-trillion dollar stimulus plans which are unlikely to help most people and will leave us with massive debt and a lower standard of living?

Liberals saw no difference and stayed home. Think that won't happen again if Obama fails to deliver on his big promises of social change?

[stillcool]

30. That's great!!!

as long as we still have a country in 2012. Maybe you'll get really lucky and get the perfect liberal progressive candidate that all of the people of the United States will vote for and agree with!!

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[redstate_democrat]

50. Wait a minute.

Who are you referring to as a bigot and a racist???

[Sarah Ibarruri]

53. Any person that HONORS a hard-working bigot working on destroying civil rights for a group.....

... is telling me that they agree with that person.

[stillcool]

51. I hope you get all that your wishing for...

with a cherry on top!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

54. What I'm wishing for is to do a LOT of research come next election....

It's clear that in this past election I did almost NO research, and that's why I'm now shocked.

[stillcool]

59. oh...sorry about that...

I had 2 years of it.

[Baltoman991]

52. You're calling

Obama a bigot and a racist? And please enlighten me as to when he's spoken openly about denying civil rights.

He hasn't. He doesn't agree with Warrens stance on much of anything.

Good luck to you and the rest who want someone from the Democratic Party to run against Obama in 2012. BTW, how'd that work for us in the past?

I don't like the choice of Warren. But I'm not going to sit here and bitch and moan and predict that this choice by Obama is only the beginning of his thumbing his nose at his supporters.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

55. Someone that disagrees with a person, does not uphold him, bestow an honor upon him....

... and have him as the #1 religious person to speak at his inauguration.

[Baltoman991]

57. So

now Obama is just another lying politician?

Please, his views on the GLBT community are light years different than Warrens. This is what he ran on. He's not going to only have folks around him, or talk to only folks he agrees with. He's going to talk to folks in hopes of helping them see the error of their ways.

But like you said in another post, you really didn't research so you wouldn't know what Obama has been saying for the past 2 years.

Again, I don't agree with the Warren choice. But I'm also not going to turn my back and think Obama is going to completely shit on Democrats/Liberals/Progressives.

This place is a hoot. Some don't just want a Democratic President, they want a Democratic President that's going to give them 100% of what they want. Good luck finding that Democrat. It's never going to happen.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

58. So I didn't do my homework. As a result, I never knew Obama liked this homohobe and bigot

It's my fault. If I'd bothered to research Obama, I'd have known this and acted accordingly.

[TK421]

61. Politicians do lie, you know...some for different reasons

and don't take this as a condescending statement, but they always do shit like this. They can't sit on one side of the fence without the possibility of offending someone Else's civil liberties on a certain issue ( like gay rights ) and turn the other direction, it doesn't work that way.

The Warren decision was a JUDGMENT call ( think about that for a moment ) Having someone as outspoken as this individual who was so against gays and, for that matter, pro-life ( tossing all other options and scenarios out the window for the person in question ) and it was a PISS-POOR judgment call on Obama part ( go ahead and flame me...I don't fucking care ) to have this bigoted asshole speak in an inauguration that, in part is meant to portray a message of true "change" not only in the way our government is run, but how our citizens ( ALL OF OUR FUCKING CITIZENS ) will be represented in the future....in this country! I'm tired of hearing how short his little "sermon" will be, or how "ineffective" it will be....

Tell you what...why don't we have Sean Hannity up there giving the intro? OHHHH....and I am quite certain people here would be pissing a bitch about that; while I understand that may be a bit of a stretch there, the idea itself, is the same.....



edited to add: a short sermon? If I stood up at a podium there for thirty SECONDS and said "All of you faggots are going to burn in hell" am I okay because all I fucking had was THIRTY FUCKING SECONDS?

WHAT-THE-FUCK? What most of you people are missing here is the message, itself! I don't give a fuck if it is thirty seconds or an hour...no quarter should be given to an individual who preaches such intolerance at a time when most of us are fighting FOR tolerance!!!

[alwysdrunk]

16. Ha! Thanks for the tip

I know what to buy in intrade now.

[Freddie Stubbs]

56. I'm sure the far left was saying the same thing about Bill Clinton during this first term

[soleft]

7. God, they even dress alike

[BigDDem]

8. McClurkin not available on inauguration day?

So much for "Change"!
What utter bull shit.

[IndianaGreen]

18. He is at an Exodus retreat

I've heard they all are eating each other out!

[ProSense]

10. I don't agree that he doesn't care

If he didn't care, he wouldn't spend the time trying to justify a decision that has sparked outrage.

I think the Warren choice is bullshit, but if we want a silver lining, it's that the President of the United States has just said:

I am fierce advocate for equality for gay and—well, let me start by talking about my own views. I think it is no secret that I am a fierce advocate for equality for gay and lesbian Americans. It is something I have been consistent on and something I intend to continue to be consistent on during my presidency.

That's not a bad silver lining. But let me add this to John -- Obama wouldn't be out there making perhaps the strongest statement in support of gays and lesbians by a president (though he's still not technically one, I know) if it wasn't for the sturm and drang this choice generated. It is precisely this backlash that has forced Obama to clearly affirm his commitment to equality. And it will be continued pressure that will force him to do the right thing on the issue.

If we shut up, he'll take the path of least resistance. And that path of least resistance is kowtowing to the conservative media, the clueless punditocracy, and bigots like Warren.

link

[BigDDem]

13. Talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words

[jefferson_dem]

29. If talk is so cheap, why are folks getting all worked up over a few prayerful words Warren will say?

:shrug:

[bvar22]

43. Its NOT just a few words.

This is who Obama has chosen to be the very first official representative of the "Change" administration.
Obama has given a BIGOT the center spotlight on a Global Stage for his official First Act.

[IndianaGreen]

19. "Fierce advocate for equality for gay and lesbian Americans" are hollow words from a hollow man

If Obama truly believed in equality, he wouldn't be dancing this "Separate But Equal" on marriage rights for LGBTs.

I think we just found out that triangulation is not an exclusive Clintonian trait.

[skeewee08]

I voted for him 2008 and will vote for him in 2012 Warren in not in the cabinet.

He is officiating a prayer, that's it a prayer. Warren is not VP, Secretary of State, Sec. Defense.

[WeDidIt]

45. I voted for him twice in 2004 and twice in 2008

I'm counting primaries and general elections.

I'm undecided for 2012.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

12. How dare anyone suggest a supremely talented politician could anticipate his base's reaction's?

It's a slander, I tells ya.

[otohara]

17. Reminds Me Of Bush's Attitude

who would just moved full speed ahead, knowing that the majority disagreed with a major decision and he could have cared less what we think.

Obama has broken my heart with this move and response.

Google (Bush/agree to disagree) and this is what you get: 4,560,000 results. I hate that Obama used the same terminology that reminds me of the Bush years and he isn't even the POTUS yet.

[alwysdrunk]

20. The majority don't disagree with this decision and it isn't major

The majority could care less about this and will forget about it 5 minutes after it's over. Sorry about the broken heart but you have no rationale to be calling the man Bush.

[otohara]

22. Agree to Disagree

there....all better!

[Number23]

28. I agree. On this, he seems more than ever like the ANTI-Bush

Bush didn't give a crap about the MAJORITY of folks in this country protesting him. The reality is, the majority of Americans are not protesting Warren. Primarily it seems to be relegated to the far left and far right at this point though that may change.

And Bush was all too happy to ignore the world to promote his friends. Obama seems to be perfectly happy angering his friends if it gets his point across that he is much more interested in "unity" (whatever that means to him).

[dflprincess]

46. Sad that only the "far left" cares that the President elect condones bigotry.

When did support for civil liberties become something that is derided by saying only the "far left" cares about it?

[marimour]

62. he doesn't condone bigotry. get a grip people!

My longtime pastor thinks homosexuality is a sin. I disagree and have no problem telling people that. He will still officiate my wedding. Does that mean I condone bigotry?

[IndianaGreen]

23. Obama's tone deafness on Rick Warren could extend to other issues

If Obama invited Warren to "bring us together," as Nixon used to say, then this was a dismal failure. I hope he does not use this same failed strategy in health care reform by bringing Big Pharma and Big Insurers to the negotiating table, or that he deludes himself into thinking that he can bring peace to the Middle East by sheer force of will. The world is not like that!

[Kurska]

31. Dismal sad failure indeed, Evangelical just don't want a seat at the table where gays dwell

The sooner obama realizes that the better. Evangelicals are social voters and as long as obama is pro-choice and pro gay rights he will never be palatable to them .

[ProSense]

33. It appears to be a Democratic thing

Clinton Gets Praise From Rick Warren for Showing up to Church:

Warren, asked Clinton "Why'd you show?" Clinton responded "well first you asked me, and second in a burst of enthusiasm I said I would and I have been looking forward to this."

Five other presidential candidates spoke by video - Huckabee, Edwards, McCain, Obama Romney. The video speeches given by other candidates did not elicit nearly the applause or attention that Clinton received. The democratic frontrunner spoke of her travels abroad – speaking powerfully about one visit to Bangkok and meeting to a 12 year old girl who had contracted AIDS from a brothel. Clinton also spoke about the unjust way that men in the 1980’s were treated when they were too ashamed to tell their loved ones that they were sick with the disease. "We are taught to heal the sick to love them as our own but 25 years ago too many of them died alone."

Clinton gave a sermon of sorts and praised the church in which she spoke for their work. "If you read those moments when Jesus is presented with someone who is ill it becomes abundantly clear that Christ had a choice he could have been too busy he could have thought this is not the message of the day, I don’t need to do this, I’ve already done this," Clinton said. "But he made the choice – he never asked why someone was sick – he just healed and ministered to those in need. That is what Saddleback has chosen to do."

Clinton, wearing a small cross pin on her lapel, spoke about religion in her life. "My faith journey is approaching a half a century and I know how far I still have to go. I have been blessed in my life both starting in my family and in the church of my childhood to be guided every step of the way. A mother who taught Sunday school and made sure that my brothers and I be there the moment the church doors opened. A father who kneeled by the side of his bed every night of his life to say his prayers."

Senator Clinton went on to discuss how prayer got her through her marital difficulties. "I am often asked if I am a praying person and I have always responded that I was fortunate enough to be raised to understand the power and purpose in prayer, but had I not been -probably one week in the White House would have turned me into one."

Clinton woos evangelicals at AIDS conference

Why is Rick Warren the "go-to pastor for major political events" for Democrats?

[Generator]

26. Kick

Some are under the sad hopeful impression that Obama listens to the left of the party-but from FISA - to Warren, I say no way Jose.

He listens to the right, first last and always. They are his biggest concern.

[JoFerret]

27. Power corrupts, and absolute power

corrupts absolutely.

[The Backlash Cometh]

34. Well, when Warren bites Obama in the ass, and he will, I guess we just

get to watch how he plans to defend himself.

[Laelth]

36. Very informative. n/t

The United States is a LIBERAL Country.

:dem:

-Laelth

[jonnyblitz]

39. oh cool! another cute pic of Obama and his sidekick for my

photo collection! :D

[AZBlue]

44. You left out a very important part of the article:

But Obama was determined to defend his pick Thursday, and he set out the pro-Warren talking points himself, when a reporter brought it up at his now all-but-daily press conference in Chicago. "A couple of years ago, I was invited to Rick Warren's church to speak, despite his awareness that I held views that were entirely contrary to his when it came to gay and lesbian rights, when it came to issues like abortion," he said. "Nevertheless, I had an opportunity to speak. And that dialogue, I think, is part of what my campaign's been all about -- that we're not going to agree on every single issue, but what we have to do is to be able to create an atmosphere where we can disagree without being disagreeable and then focus on those things that we hold in common as Americans."

As for Mike Madden - it's one guy's opinion. Make up your own mind for goodness' sake and don't promote Madden as the final word.

[crappyjazz]

63. Obama's and Warren's views are NOTentirely contrary on GLBT rights.

[dflprincess]

48. He'll care when the campaign contributions dry up

and his bigoted friends on the right are donating to Palin.

[BigBearJohn]

49. Ruh-oh. Seems like people are waking up from the dream.

Reminds me of the old maxim... money talks, bullshit walks.

Do we really believe that the mega-buck corporatist rulers of the world
are going to allow the little guy to rise up and challenge their wealth?
I'm of the opinion that in TODAY's world, the only way anyone gets into
a position of power is if they tow the line of the real power(s).

The only saving grace is the rising in consciousness and intelligence of
the masses that I've seen signs of here on DU. But I won't hold my breath.
Same game century after century. Different players, different costumes,
different toys.

[lostnotforgotten]

60. He Has Lost My Vote For 2012 - I Don't Support Bigot Enablers!

eom