Robert Kennedy Jr. I read here a while back that Obama was going to pick him

[rainy]

for a position. It that still going to happen? Has anyone heard any more about this?

[DJ13]

1. What, and perpetuate a dynasty by appointing a Kennedy?

[glowing]

2. Probably not with all the Caroline backlash.

[rainy]

3. But, he does have all the credentials. He is over qualified for the job. nt

[avaistheone1]

45. **** FROM RFK Jr's own lips...****

I had the honor of hearing RFK Jr speak 2 weeks ago in Berkeley. Totally amazing man. He said he was not seeking any role in the Obama administration, or the NY Senate seat at this time because he has a couple small kids right now, and he wants to place them first.

(My thoughts: but who knows four years from now.)

[saracat]

4. Yeah oddly a lot of "progressives'' attacked him as a kook and tree hugger.

Some of the "newbies said he was a "typical boomer kook". I don't recognize so called progressives sometimes. RFK has experience and is way more qualified for a number of positions than his cousin Caroline.

[rainy]

5. He is brilliant. I honestly don't see how any progressive could have a beef with

him. I love listening to him on Ring of Fire and I was in awe of his speech at the Live Earth concert.

"See you at the barricade."

[Orrex]

15. The beef is that he jumped on board the 'vaccines cause autism' bandwagon

That position is, at best, poorly substantiated, but Kennedy's star-power gave it a lot of seeming credibility. Kennedy has done some excellent work re: mercury pollution from power plants etc., but he backed the wrong horse when it came to the vaccine "controversy." But if he were appointed to some cabinet post or named as head of the EPA, his ill-based views would have been given validation.


This has been discussed at length numerous times in various places here on DU, always with the same outcome: those who believe that vaccines cause autism attack those who point out that the evidence does not support the claim. The latter are then invariably decried as shills for Big Pharma.

[bottomtheweaver]

38. The claim is about the mercury used to preserve the vaccines, not the vaccines.

That's where you're wrong.

[Orrex]

42. Oh please

That's like saying that the murder weapon was the bullet rather than the gun.

If the he claims that mercury (actually the Thimerosal) is in the vaccines (which he does), and if he says that the Thimerosal causes autism (which he does) then he is saying that the vaccines cause autism.

[bottomtheweaver]

51. Let's just stick to the truth, like scientists do.

To claim that RFK ever said that 'vaccines cause autism' is simply untrue.

[Orrex]

56. Except the scientists whom you've decided are bought and paid for by Big Pharma, right?

Again, oh please.

Forgive me for not digging up a direct quote. However, in saying that Thimerosal causes autism, he is clearly implying that vaccines cause autism, because I can't think of another source of Thimerosal that might be relevant.

And your one-liners really don't deserve further comment; you have nothing new to bring to this discussion, which is in fact much more settled than you seem willing to accept.

[bottomtheweaver]

59. No, he is saying that mercury causes autism. Why are you distorting his position?

I'm perplexed.

[Orrex]

75. Which is it?

"Thimerosal causes autism" or "mercury causes autism?"

The two statements are not the same. And no shit you're perplexed; it's obvious from your every post on this subject.

[bottomtheweaver]

80. Its the mercury in thimerosal, and you're just wasting my time. Bye.

[Orrex]

83. Just like it's the sodium in table salt.

Since you're so concerned about wasting time, I'll tell you what: why don't you indicate in your subject line whether a given post by you is worth reading. So far you're running at about zero.

[Ken Burch]

6. My sense is that Bobby is happier being on the outside of government.

Given his family's history, who can blame him for thinking that serving in the Administration or the Senate is just not worth the tsuris?

[sandnsea]

7. He took his name out n/t

[rainy]

8. WTF? Are you sure? What a let down. nt

[Hanse]

9. No, he's out. And thank goodness.

This will be a pro-science administration.

[texastoast]

10. What does that mean?

You think Bobby is not pro-science? :shrug:

[Hanse]

11. No, he's a pseudoscience kook.

Right up there with creationists and global warming deniers.

[texastoast]

12. What specifically do you think he is kooky about?

He's got lots of opinions. Which ones do you believe are baseless?

[VADem11]

13. The one position

that I've heard most often is his belief that autism is linked to vaccinations.

[rainy]

14. There's quite a bit of evidence that this is true. But, science paid for

by the industry that profited from the making of the vaccines says there is no link. Who are you going to believe.

[Orrex]

16. I'm not going to believe Kennedy, because on this position he's full of shit

And your fear-mongering is typical of the anti-vax crowd. Without exception, their first line of argument is always "drug companies bought and paid for the science." And usually they put science in scare quotes.

[texastoast]

18. Here's RFKJr's article

Fear-mongering, I'm not so sure. As with all good science, the debate continues. But, let me be the first kook here to say that I'm not so sure about injecting children with anything containing mercury.

And government coverups? I've seen my share.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7395411/deadly_immunity/

[Orrex]

24. I've read it several times, thanks

[texastoast]

37. So what do you think about the mercury part?

And the fact that other professionals see enough empirical evidence to call for further research? What about that?

[bottomtheweaver]

41. No one could have imagined that mercury was a poison!

[Orrex]

43. How about the fact that mercury's been eliminated from most of the named vaccines

And in fact was never even in certain of them in the first place, but autism incidence still continue to rise?

How about the fact that autism is apparently on the rise even in countries that never used Thimerosal to begin with?


Sure, let's have more research. But let's avoid the fear-mongering that leads ill-informed but well-meaning parents to forego vaccination for their kids, thereby exposing those kids and others to a range of diseases that are far more dangerous than the Thimerosal that isn't even in them.

[bottomtheweaver]

52. How about some evidence?

Like links to support your claims?

[Orrex]

58. You first--you're on the side that's making the positive claim

That claim being that Thimerosal causes autism. Let's have your evidence.

[bottomtheweaver]

62. Read on:

You seem not to want to discuss the article or the evidence:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7395411/deadly_immunity/

[earth mom]

22. You are FULL OF SHIT. Why should anyone believe you? What proof do you have

except what the corrupt pharma giants dish out from studies they have bought and paid for! Talk about having a vested interest in the outcome! :puke:

Millions of parents are NOT wrong about what they have witnessed happen to their babies.

So which pharma giant do you work for? :eyes:

[Orrex]

25. Your idiocy is like clockwork

:rofl:

[earth mom]

28. Same back at ya!

:rofl:

[Bucky]

19. You left off the word "bogus". As in "there's quite a bit of bogus evidence"

What the anti vaccination hysteria is guaranteed to do if it goes unchecked is reintroduce typhus, diptheria, & other deadly communicable diseases back into the US population by creating a large pool of young people crowded into schools where these diseases can thrive.

A little bogus concern about autism can lead to whole lot of real deaths by lowering our population's wall of protection.

[texastoast]

35. There is not "bogus" concern about the relationship between the vaccination

and autism. There is enough evidence to convince many medical professionals that further research is needed. I agree that safe vaccinations are necessary. I do not agree that a vaccine should be released prior to thorough research merely for the sake of recouping R&D costs to satisfy the stockholders. And I question the intent of the pharma lobbyists.

I've seen too many not to believe there is a possibility of a cover up. I don't trust our government. No matter who is at the helm.

[MarjorieG]

17. Even the vaccines cause crowd will say it's the quality, non-organic aspect often.

I think it's tough for the body to withstand that kind of assault, early, without having built anti-bodies, and come out unphased.

[Hanse]

31. The vaccine issue.

There could be other issues, he's been known to associate with some really wacky people.

But his record on vaccines is pure quackery.

[bottomtheweaver]

40. You mean the mercury-based preservative issue.

Please get it straight for once.

[Orrex]

46. Yeah! Just like table salt is based on sodium and chlorine

We need to get this dangerous substance out of American homes immediately!!!!!!!!!!!1!

[bottomtheweaver]

53. Let's stick to the issue, which is thimerosal, not table salt, okay?

Thanks! :hi:

[Orrex]

55. Well, which is it? Mercury, or Thimerosal?

And if it's mercury, which form of mercury?

Are you saying that all forms and all alloys of mercury are created equal? And are you saying also that Thimerosal is equal to all of them, too?

Perhaps if you understood the sodium chloride comment, you'd understand why it's relevant.


Careful with your water, by the way--it contains hydrogen and oxygen, both of which are proven unambiguously to be very dangerous!

[bottomtheweaver]

57. Read on:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7395411/deadly_immunity/

[Orrex]

60. What grade are you in?

Is that the best you can do? One liners and redundant links?

You're a 100% generic anti-vaxer.

:eyes:

[bottomtheweaver]

61. I'm sorry that I exposed the inaccuracy of your claims.

Try to be a good sport.

[Hanse]

66. Where did you do that?

All I saw was you reposting Kennedy's screwball article.

[bottomtheweaver]

69. You're claiming that Kennedy links vaccines to autism. He doesn't.

He links the mercury in thimerosal to autism. Your claims are simply distortions, and that is clear from just the title his Rolling Stone article.

[Orrex]

71. Are you out of your mind?

Name another source of Thimerosal, aside from vaccines. If you can't, then you are equivocating; claiming that Thimerosal is linked to autism when there is no environmental source of Thimerosal exposure other than vaccines is the same as claiming that vaccines are linked to Thimerosal.

If you can't see that, then you're in no position to judge the validity of RFK's article. Or anything else on this subject, apparently.

[bottomtheweaver]

74. You are making an appallingly dishonest claim.

I'm really kind of shocked that you would. :shrug:

[Orrex]

76. Clarify please, unless you're just calling me out

I made a statement of fact whereby I dismantled the dubious crux of your dubious "argument." The best you can do is another nonsensical one-liner.

I wish I could say that I'm "kind of shocked that you would."

[bottomtheweaver]

89. You claim in post #15 that RFK "jumped on board the 'vaccines cause autism' bandwagon."

However, what RFK makes clear in his article is that the mercury in thimerasol, a preservative used in vaccines, has been linked to autism -- not the vaccines themselves. So your claim is a serious distortion of his position.

[Hanse]

73. If you were correct...

Kennedy wouldn't be rallying against vaccines which contained no mercury. He rallies against vaccines that do no contain mercury. Therefore you are incorrect.

You'd think if Kennedy were concerned about mercury, he'd be complaining about fish, which contain mercury, instead of vaccines that don't contain mercury.

[bottomtheweaver]

78. He's exposing the dangers of thimerosal, period.

But go ahead and pretend he's not.

[Hanse]

84. He's pseudoscientifically fear-mongering. Period.

And helping the spread of life-threatening diseases like measles.

He's the moral and intellectual equivalent of those religious figures who discourage the use of condoms.

[bottomtheweaver]

85. At least he's honest. nt

[Hanse]

88. Actually, no. He's incredibly intellectually dishonest.

He claims, for example, that thimerosal is a poison. Technically true. But he fails to mention that it's not a poison at small doses.

Which brings us back to the point of NaCl. NaCl is a poison and at large doses it can kill you. At low doses it's perfectly safe and rather tasty.

[bottomtheweaver]

90. Oh the irony. Anyway, thanks for a good laugh. nt

[earth mom]

20. Bullshit. And you think we should believe you-an annoymous poster on a message board?

:wtf:

I'll go with Kennedy any day. And not only that but an overwhelming majority of parents of Autistic children witnessed a distinct before and after when vaccines where given. Your word means nothing. :puke:

[Hanse]

32. Feel free to look it up yourself.

Believing people because they have a famous last name isn't a very good idea.

"And not only that but an overwhelming majority of parents of Autistic children witnessed a distinct before and after when vaccines where given."

You're just making that up.

[earth mom]

48. Do some research about parents of Autistic children & then try & say I'm making it up.

You are so full of shit it ain't funny. :puke:

[Hanse]

50. The research has been done and it's well established.

Vaccines don't cause autism. No matter how hard some people wish they did.

[earth mom]

95. Get an F-in clue! It is the Mercury in the preservative causing the problem!

Also, the research you refer to is total bullshit bought & paid for by the pharma giants who have a vested interest in this.

There will never be proper studies done until the pharma giants stop controlling the U.S. government.

[Bill McBlueState]

91. even if true, it's not very good evidence

That might happen only because autism happens to manifest at about the same time as vaccines are typically given.

[bottomtheweaver]

92. Bill, the issue is not vaccines, but the mercury used to preserve them.

There's an awful lot of distortion here masquerading as truth, but the fact is that RFK accused the pharma companies of adulterating their vaccines with a serious poison, mercury-based thimerasol, and the government of helping them cover it up.

His article is well worth a read and very convincing:

"Deadly Immunity:
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. investigates the government cover-up of a mercury/autism scandal"

by ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.
Posted Jun 20, 2005

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7395411/deadly_immunity/

[saltpoint]

26. "Kook" is a word I keep up in the attic to be trotted out in service of

characterizations of ANTI-Science members of the Republican Party generally and the Bush administration especially.

Any good number of law firms pointedly seek attorneys familiar with, unafraid of, and effective in scientific principles, not the least of these The Environment.

RFK Jr. is a pro-Knowledge, pro-Science guy. We need far more of these folks, not fewer.

[Hanse]

33. I don't give pseudoscience a pass just because a democrat does it.

"Any good number of law firms pointedly seek attorneys familiar with, unafraid of, and effective in scientific principles, not the least of these The Environment. "

Successful law firms would want to avoid hiring people with poor rational thinking skills if they want to remain successful. Same thing goes for successful presidential administrations, which is why I'm glad Obama didn't hire the kook.

"RFK Jr. is a pro-Knowledge, pro-Science guy"

The weight of evidence contradicts this statement.

[bottomtheweaver]

39. You're doing it every time you pretend he has a beef with "vaccines."

He has a beef with the mercury-based preservatives they're adulterated with, not the vaccines themselves.

[Hanse]

49. Except he's against vaccines which contain no mercury.

How now, brown cow?

[bottomtheweaver]

54. Incorrect: "a mercury-based preservative in the vaccines -- thimerosal --

appeared to be responsible for a dramatic increase in autism and a host of other neurological disorders among children."

-- "Deadly Immunity: Robert F. Kennedy Jr. investigates the government cover-up of a mercury/autism scandal"

by ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., Rolling Stone, Posted Jun 20, 2005

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7395411/deadly_immunity/
..............

To claim repeatedly that RFK is opposed to vaccines is an astonishing distortion of what he actually wrote.

[Hanse]

63. From the same article..."

"Before 1989, American preschoolers received eleven vaccinations -- for polio, diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis and measles-mumps-rubella. A decade later, thanks to federal recommendations, children were receiving a total of twenty-two immunizations by the time they reached first grade."

That right there is anti-vaccine fear-mongering. The MMR vaccine, for example, has never thimerosal.

If claims of a government cover-up is also loony.

[bottomtheweaver]

65. I'm sorry, but your claim is ridiculous. Read the subtitle of the article:

"Robert F. Kennedy Jr. investigates the government cover-up of a mercury/autism scandal."

That's "mercury/autism," not "vaccine/autism." The point is obviously that multiple vaccinations multiply the quantities of the mercury they're adulterated with.

Seriously, why are you trying so hard to distort his position?

:shrug:

[Hanse]

70. MMR vaccines contain no mercury.

"The point is obviously that multiple vaccinations multiply the quantities of the mercury they're adulterated with. "

Not if they don't contain mercury they don't.

"Seriously, why are you trying so hard to distort his position?"

It's not my fault Kennedy can't keep his own story straight. That's a problem when you keep making things up, you can't keep it straight.

[bottomtheweaver]

72. The article is obviously about thimerasol. (n/t)

[Hanse]

77. Yet MMR vaccines contain no thimerosal.

:shrug:

[bottomtheweaver]

79. Neither does vanilla fudge, but the article is about thimerosal.

:shrug:

[Hanse]

81. Kennedy hasn't said vanilla fudge causes autism.

Although I wouldn't put it past him to make that claim.

He has claimed MMR vaccines cause autism.

And he also claims vaccines with thimerosal cause autism. Which science has conclusively shown they don't cause autism.

I don't think science has proven that vanilla fudge doesn't cause autism. Maybe we should ban vanilla fudge.

[bottomtheweaver]

82. Please cite sources for your claims, thanks. nt

[Orrex]

86. What's amazing is that if I called you a dumb-ass (which I haven't done) MY post would be deleted

Yet you're free to post all of your piffle as if it made any sort of rational sense at all.

What a crazy world.

[Hanse]

87. No.

I'm not going to prove that global warming is happening with a global warming denier.

I'm not going to prove that evolution happened to a creationist.

I'm not going to prove that the holocaust happened to a holocaust denier.

I'm not going to prove that thimerosal doesn't cause autism to an anti-vaccer.

If you're interested in the truth, you're perfectly capable of looking itself up yourself. But I don't think you're interested in playing the truth as much as you want to play games.

[saltpoint]

47. We disagree. You've made a bad call on a good man.

[Hanse]

64. There's no room for disagreement, Kennedy is demonstrably wrong.

He's either a despicably dishonest man, or a foolish man, either way he shouldn't be given an important job.

[bottomtheweaver]

68. Your claims about his position on vaccines are demonstrably wrong

and I've just demonstrated why. You're welcome. :hi:

[saltpoint]

93. Jesus God, Hanse. You are totally out to lunch on this one.

"A despicably dishonest man" ?

Shame on ya.

And he already HAS an important job. Actually, he has MORE than one important job, and many people I personally know are the better off for it. The longer he serves in ANY job, the better.

I have no idea why your personal bias should drive you to be so dismissive of a DEMONSTRABLY accomplished fellow citizen like RFK Jr. But it isn't very persuasive.

[cali]

98. No he's not.

that's just a ridiculous comparison. Having said that, he does not have the scientific background that I'd like to see in someone appointed to a post where scientific knowledge is vital.

[saltpoint]

21. RFK Jr. is just a peach. I hope he continues to serve, as he has for

so long already, in any capacity.

[texastoast]

36. I hope he is wise enough

to never have to become a "recovering politician." He will be much more effective outside. He is hugely influential, and like Al, without the reins of politics, I can kick some ass and take names.

[earth mom]

23. Obama is making a HUGE mistake, but obviously not the first one lately. nt

[ecstatic]

44. RFK took his name out of the running

:eyes:

[bottomtheweaver]

27. He didn't make it through the media spanking machine

which is pretty frisky as you can see. If Caroline makes it through hers, she can help him get appointed to something.

[jonnyblitz]

29. he's not right wing enough for Obama.nt

[my3boyz]

30. Perhaps he can kiss up to Hillary for a job since he loves her so much. nt

[polichick]

34. There was talk about him at EPA, but he made a statement about...

...having six mouths to feed and not wanting a gov't job ~ I don't know if he had heard Obama wanted someone else, or if he really didn't want to be considered. I really admire him for the work he's done though!

[avaistheone1]

67. **** FROM RFK Jr's own lips...**** **** FROM RFK Jr's own lips...****

**** FROM RFK Jr's own lips...****

I had the honor of hearing RFK Jr speak 2 weeks ago in Berkeley. Totally amazing man. He said he was not seeking any role in the Obama administration, or the NY Senate seat at this time because he has a couple small kids right now, and he wants to place them first.

(My thoughts: but who knows four years from now.)

[bklyncowgirl]

94. There you go spoiling some perfectly lovely anti-Obama rants with the facts.

That's just not allowed here, you know.

[texastoast]

96. Really

What the fuck has happened to this place?

[LynneSin]

97. I read where it was to be the EPA but Kennedy opted to stay in the private sector

Kennedy can probably achieve more without the limits of government but staying outside of a government position.