Didn't Clinton start out right away with a gay rights issue that backfired?

[yodoobo]

I'm just thinking there might be something that could be learned here.

If I remember right. One of the first things that Clinton did was enact the "Don't ask and Don't tell" policy for gays in the military.

The result was a fumble right out of the gate, angering both the Left for not going far enough with gay rights, and the Right for permitting gays in the military at all.

Granted, this did not happen 30 days before Clinton's inauguration, but it did happen early in his first 100 days.

The result was a stumble, but an eventual recovery into the greatest 8 years our nation has known.

In the end, it all turned out all right. (If I'm misremembering some things here, by all means correct me)

I'm really annoyed by this whole Warren issue...but I'm made a decision that I'm going to trust the man that I trusted with my vote.

This is a President who's judgment I respect more than Bill Clinton's. So I'm going to standby Obama and if he goes down over this, then by God I'm going down with him.

If he thinks that reaching out to the middle is the right idea, then who the hell am I to disagree? If it turns out that Obama is wrong, then I'm going to be wrong right there alongside him.

It's the least we I do. He's already given us so much.

[elleng]

1. He sure did.

Thanks.

[IndianaJones]

2. reaching out to the middle? bwaaahahahaaha. nt.

[EFerrari]

3. The middle of what?! He hasn't asked for Obama's birth certificate

as far as I know.

[yodoobo]

6. The political spectrum.

I don't understand your point about the B.C. I know the far right is stilling running around in circles about that (and probably will for the next 8 years), but I don't understand how that relative to this conversation.

[EFerrari]

9. Warren can't even see the middle from where he sits.

He's an extreme right winger in moderate drag and every interview he gives reveals that more and more. Have you seen any of them?

There are some in the Political Videos forum.

[yodoobo]

15. I have not watched the videos

I will check those out. thanks.

To the point, If Obama was appointing Warren to high office with actual constitutional power, I would be very alarmed.

But that is not the case. Its a gesture, not totally devoid of meaning to be sure, but it does have little practical result.

[mitchtv]

24. the results are a slap in the face to a group who

voted for you in a cynical attempt to gain political gain from a group who did not vote for you ( just like he did in SC during the campaign). You, like him think that Me or my long time support is nothing, Well heress just another little person who will toss those letters he sends like clockwork, Maybe people can pay him to kick a Gay.

[EFerrari]

32. The promotion of Warren in this way has already had the practical result

of giving the right wing Baptists a talking point which is being spread in their press: see, we were right about homosexuals!

Warren will probably plaster images of his two minutes all over his website and otherwise use them in his PR campaigns and he will be forever validated by them. Those two minutes will last a lifetime in his career and will be very lucrative for him. Those are also practical results.

In addition, there are now millions of gay voters and their families and friends who have been needlessly upset by this. Their support has now been put into jeopardy. Another practical result.

[kickysnana]

4. Result of act first, think later on behalf some GBLT folks: Don't ask, don't tell.

One of the worst, most corrupt things that could happen.

It seems to be a recurring failure to learn from mistakes on the part of GBLT community.

Crimany. Let the new President get in office, solidify his power (armor) before pushing him into a mine field or I can guarantee a similar disaster.

[WillParkinson]

10. Learn from mistakes?

Oh, so we should sit down, shut up, and let others decide for us? I mean, I might be mistaking what you're saying and, honestly, I hope I am.

This inauguration is NOT for Mr. Obama. It is a celebration of everyone who helped him get elected. This is very difficult when you have someone who likely wouldn't drink from the same punchbowl as you.

[Cattledog]

21. Many people against Gay Marriage voted for Obama too

So what?

[EFerrari]

11. Um, Obama waltzed out into the minefield all on his own.

Nobody pushed him there.

[Starry Messenger]

12. What?

How was this the fault of GBLT folks?

[DarkTirade]

31. Maybe it's because we have the audacity

to point out the problems that nobody wants to deal with.

Or as some put it, "We complain."

[Jamastiene]

14. Sure....we were asking for it. We deserved it. Riiiight...

:sarcasm:

[Hippo_Tron]

17. Don't Ask Don't Tell is arguably worse than what was in place before

Because it actually codified the discrimination into law. Before, the only thing banning gays in the military was a decision by the Pentagon (which was notoriously relaxed during wartime). I suppose the "Don't Ask" part of the law was a step forward except for the fact that it's notoriously disobeyed anyway.

Clinton wound up signing the thing because he knew that having not served in the military himself, he couldn't win a public opinion war against the military and Sam Nunn who were pushing congress to codify the ban on gays in the military into law (should Clinton try to repeal it by executive order). Now that it's 2008 and not 1993, Obama would be able to sign such an Executive Order with little backlash. Congress certainly would not even consider codifying the ban into law at this point and many military leaders have also changed their views. But now Obama can't issue an executive order he actually has to get DADT repealed and that is subject to a GOP filibuster in the Senate.

But Clinton's decision to plunge into the gays in the military issue had little to do with anybody pushing him there. It was because he failed to appoint his senior staff until the very last minute and made the decision without consulting anybody who could explain to him that he couldn't just issue the executive order without fear of a congressional backlash.

[nichomachus]

22. That was a Clinton mistake not a mistake of the GLBT community

This was pure Clinton -- the GLBT community didn't start this. Clinton was showboating during the campaign and promised something he couldn't deliver on.

Also, he made the fatal mistake of telegraphing his move months in advance, giving the bigots time to line up their forces against him. It was pure Bill Clinton arrogance.

The right-winger, led by "Democrat" Sam Nunn saw this as an opportunity to teach a lesson to the uppity DC outsider -- so they pulled down his pants and spanked him in public.

Don't lay this at the feet of the GLBT community.

[pecwae]

25. Why are you blaming the gay

community for a choice Obama made? How did GLBT push the PE into a minefield?

[sandnsea]

5. He's wrong

Nobody is ever going to be mistake-free. He's wrong. I'm sure he'll be wrong many times a month. People need to figure out how to organize when he is and actually get the vocal support of a good 60% of the public so that he can be challenged when he's wrong. It's not necessary to stand beside somebody without saying they're wrong if you think they are.

[yodoobo]

7. Perhaps.

But you dance with the one you brought. Like I said. If he is proven wrong about this decision, then I'll be right there by his side being wrong too.

I'm not about the toss him to the wolves on his first day in office.

[WillParkinson]

8. Whyever not?

He didn't seem to have a problem doing it to the GLBT community. Twice.

[yodoobo]

13. Because then you lose the war as opposed to the battle

This issue is one skirmish. One that I think will in retrospect be minor (after all, Warren is not being appointed to any office or power, its a speech)

But if you toss away the candidate, then you escalate the issue into something far far larger. Then you lose the skirmish, the battle and the war.

[WillParkinson]

16. *Sigh*

Just what we need. Another person telling us to wait. Bite our tongues. Keep quiet.

People continue to say it's just a speech and that he's not being appointed to any office or power. You don't know this. You don't know what the future holds for this duo. Please don't pull out your crystal ball and tell us it's "just a speech".

As for not giving him power? Of course he is. Words are powerful weapons. Look at the damage Mr. Warren did over Proposition 8. He helped deny gays and lesbians of civil rights. Of course it seems many people think that gays and lesbians are acceptable losses in the skirmish as long as you win your war.

[yodoobo]

18. No. Please don't overplay what I wrote

I'm not presuming to tell anyone else how to respond. I'm just describing how I'm responding. I'm going to standby the President I voted for.

Your right. No one knows what the future holds. Right now we know its a speech. Could it lead to more? Could it lead to an appointment? To answer that question would require that crystal ball that I sure don't have. A speech is only sure thing I got right now.

In my opinion, a speech is all that it will be. Crystal Ball not-withstanding.

Acceptable losses. No I wouldn't say that. I'm sure there are others that might though. To be clear, if Obama were to start passing anti-gay legislation or appointing anti-gay people, then yes those are real losses and hardly acceptable. But honestly don't see it going that way. If I did, he would not have earned my vote.

[WillParkinson]

19. He did not earn my vote...

He was simply better than McCain.

And things like this show why he did not earn it.

You do not make new friends by sacrificing your old ones. Many see this as tossing a bone to the right wing. I'm sorry, I don't feel like being the bone. This man compared my relationship to being a pederast. This man helped strip gays and lesbians of civil rights in California. This man thinks that women should be subservient to men. And this man is being given air-time and face-time.

You want to reach out to people? Great. I think it's a wonderful idea. But not at the cost of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[LeftyMom]

20. And he went from there to DOMA. He never did stop fucking over GLBT people.

I get the feeling that's not quite the point you were trying to make though.

[cboy4]

23. The middle!

:rofl:

Try some critical thinking skills for yourself pending, instead of being so starstruck over Obama.

He screwed up big time.

Two wrong don't make a right if you're going to invoke Bill Clinton -- who by the way, has a reason to do what he did with that terrible Don't Ask Don't Tell.

Obama had not one excuse. :thumbsdown:

[pecwae]

26. Is a Clinton the PE now?

[mitchtv]

27. He hasn't given me shit

Grow up and see a cynical politician for what he is;

[HamdenRice]

28. Point of information: It happened a little differently

Clinton proposed eliminating all discrimination against gays in the military. There was a huge backlash, including from the military itself. Don't ask/don't tell was the compromise, not the initial position.

It was a huge waste of political capital in the first days of the administration, and forced Clinton to do Sista Soulja moments AGAINST gays like signing DOMA.

That's what lack of strategic thinking will get you.

[alcibiades_mystery]

29. "...the greatest 8 years our nation has known...."

:puke: :puke: :puke:

Ay yay yay. And they call the Obama supporters worshippers.

:puke:

[Zuiderelle]

30. Clinton didn't make DADT right out of the gate, it was a compromise after he was in office.

Obama has "stumbled" before even getting there. At least Clinton tried to be on our side, he failed, but he tried. Obama isn't even trying to pretend now.