Obama appears to have made up his mind on Warren, now what?

[ProSense]

The Warren invite caught a lot of people by surprise, but in light of the following articles, it's not unsual for Democrats to reach out to Warren.

Clinton Gets Praise From Rick Warren for Showing up to Church:

Warren, asked Clinton "Why'd you show?" Clinton responded "well first you asked me, and second in a burst of enthusiasm I said I would and I have been looking forward to this."

Five other presidential candidates spoke by video - Huckabee, Edwards, McCain, Obama Romney. The video speeches given by other candidates did not elicit nearly the applause or attention that Clinton received. The democratic frontrunner spoke of her travels abroad – speaking powerfully about one visit to Bangkok and meeting to a 12 year old girl who had contracted AIDS from a brothel. Clinton also spoke about the unjust way that men in the 1980’s were treated when they were too ashamed to tell their loved ones that they were sick with the disease. "We are taught to heal the sick to love them as our own but 25 years ago too many of them died alone."

Clinton gave a sermon of sorts and praised the church in which she spoke for their work. "If you read those moments when Jesus is presented with someone who is ill it becomes abundantly clear that Christ had a choice he could have been too busy he could have thought this is not the message of the day, I don’t need to do this, I’ve already done this," Clinton said. "But he made the choice – he never asked why someone was sick – he just healed and ministered to those in need. That is what Saddleback has chosen to do."

Clinton, wearing a small cross pin on her lapel, spoke about religion in her life. "My faith journey is approaching a half a century and I know how far I still have to go. I have been blessed in my life both starting in my family and in the church of my childhood to be guided every step of the way. A mother who taught Sunday school and made sure that my brothers and I be there the moment the church doors opened. A father who kneeled by the side of his bed every night of his life to say his prayers."

Senator Clinton went on to discuss how prayer got her through her marital difficulties. "I am often asked if I am a praying person and I have always responded that I was fortunate enough to be raised to understand the power and purpose in prayer, but had I not been -probably one week in the White House would have turned me into one."

Some Democrats appear to believe that there is a need to reach out to Warren. It also appears that some are using this incident as an opportunity for character assassination. Is anyone really surprised at these politicians' position on gay marriage? Anyone?

Clinton woos evangelicals at AIDS conference

Why is Rick Warren the "go-to pastor for major political events" for Democrats?

Obama appears to have made his mind up about Warren delivering the invocation on Jan. 20. Those who are outraged have two choices:

1) disagree with him, move on, and give him a chance.

or

2) disagree with him, move on, and vow not to support him.

Nothing short of Obama changing his mind will alter this choice. I suspect most people will opt to give him a chance.

The fact is that despite Warren's participation in the inauguration and despite the concerns voiced since the election, no one has any clue what Obama will or will not accomplish. Whether or not people want to acknowledge it, he ran a campaign that inspired a lot of people to demand something different: change (the disappointment and anger over the past several weeks is evidence of that). He was mocked and ridiculed for challenging people to hope and work for change. He has an opportunity unlike any other in a few generations. There are people waiting for him to fulfill his promise, and others hoping he falls short. If he doesn't deliever, he'll be mocked and ridiculed for it.

No one will know if he can deliver on any of his promises until he goes about trying. No one is likely to know anything conclusive 30 days from now when he begins the journey to prove himself and implement his vision.

My feeling is that he's going to try is his best (see his campaign) to prove the doubters wrong.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

1. Obama is now hiding in Hawaii hoping this will all go away if he hides nt

[democrattotheend]

3. You're joking, right?

He's had this trip planned since before the election. His family has gone to Hawaii around this time every year since he was a state senator.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

9. I'm sure it was planned, but he is silent while the storm has brewed for days and is getting worse

He made 1 comment, and is now dead silent. I call that hiding. He's starting off his presidency in a very interesting way.

[Political Tiger]

13. He's not president yet so

how is he "starting off his presidency in a very interesting way?"

[Sarah Ibarruri]

15. I'm sure his closest advisors are talking to Rick Warren - everyone knows this is a huge mistake

I don't understand how they could allow this presidency to start with such a disgusting thing.

[polichick]

17. Really - the quicker he deals with it, the better.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

19. I agree with you, but all that has happened is that the homophobe has said he's not a

homophobe because he's helped collect money for gay AIDS.

[WillParkinson]

50. Actually not so much...

His focus is on AIDS in Africa. I'm not sure how much he truly cares about gays and AIDS.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

54. That's not what he said. Let me see if I can find it for you...

Okay, this is Rick Warren proving that he's not a homophobe. Now remember, this man is on YOUTUBE trying to get people to vote FOR proposition 8:

"Most people know I have many gay friends. I've eaten dinner in gay homes. No church has probably done more for people with AIDS than Saddleback Church. Kay and I have given millions of dollars out of Purpose Driven Life helping people who got AIDS through gay relationships. So they can't accuse me of homophobia."

http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/2008/12/rick-warrens-controversial-com.html

[Political Tiger]

24. This too shall pass

Some of us are more concerned with what Obama does after the inauguration that who gives a prayer at the inauguration.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

26. This shall not pass nt

[Political Tiger]

27. That's up to you

If you want to stay angry for the rest of your life that's your choice.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

28. Actually, I'm not the only one feeling this way (tho I'm sure you wish it were so) nt

[KittyWampus]

31. of course it won't because some people enjoy stoking anger and picking scabs

[Sarah Ibarruri]

18. In fact, I think that's why Rick Warren is suddenly saying he's not really homophobic

He said he's not homophobic because, after all, he's helped collect millions of dollars to help gays with AIDS.

He can't open his mouth without being a homophobe.

[ProSense]

5. I believe what he's doing is called a vacation. n/t

[Starry Messenger]

16. +1

[nsd]

40. +2

[BeFree]

6. Bullshit

You dishonor the first democratic president we've had in eight years, with that bullshit.

[last1standing]

14. He had no problems with dishonoring us with his bullshit.

Just as you have no problems doing the same with yours. It must be nice to be part of the I GOT MINE brigade.

[BeFree]

22. Obama is hiding?

You think there is any truth to that? You think its fair? You think its right to say that?
For someone who is supposedly fighting for what's right and fair, I don't see how you can pick and choose at your whim and fancy and stay honest.

[last1standing]

29. I'm not going to worry about what's fair for Obama when he has shown no conern for me.

In the grand scheme, honoring those who say I'm no better than a child rapist stands out far beyond suggesting that someone is hiding from negative comments.

[BeFree]

34. In the grand scheme

Why do you care what Warren says?

Is it because he is a leader of the pack? If so, then he is the guy to get to change minds.
And you do that, at first, by honoring him at the table.

Look, I think fundies are the dregs of our society, but they are very powerful. So powerful that they have been successful at denying rights to segments of society.

The first step to defeating that power is recognizing that power and working with it to defeat it, as a fighter does in Judo.

[Neecy]

36. He won't change a single mind

Look, we're a goldmine to these fundie ministers. Have you ever seen any of their fundraising letters? They're filled with dire warnings about the 'homosexual agenda' and how we want to recruit kids, etc. This crap is pure filth coming from so-called "Christians" but you know what? It works. I wish I had a nickel for every dollar that was raised from my back by these quacks, and even if I did it wouldn't make up for the insults and lies these people have thrown around for years.

We're a cash cow as long as they continue to demonize us. It won't stop. Warren and his ilk won't 'change minds'.

[BeFree]

39. So, it won't stop?

Then we're doomed? All we can fight and possibly win against is ourselves?

It is sad you have such a negative attitude, I wish I could say something to make you optimistic.

I am hoping Obama is not so negative. That he believes he can alter their mindset, and I believe he will try to do just that.

[Neecy]

41. my negative attitude is well-earned

Don't you patronize me. The hatred from these people is real. I'm being realistic. For you to breezily claim that Obama is going to persuade fundie ministers - or even ONE - to embrace our cause is simply idiotic. It'll never happen because we make them very, very wealthy by being their own personal scapegoats.

[BeFree]

44. Now I'm being idiotic?

Damn, I've been called a lot of bad names the last few days, and if I wasn't so optimistic I'd tell everyone to shove it where the sun don't shine.

You don't know me, but I've been in several situations that people told me, just like you have now, that it was a waste of time. They were wrong. So fuck that. And if that's all you can tell me, I say STFU.

[last1standing]

38. We've been down this road so many times before.

And we always hear the same line, "they'll change their minds". But they don't. They take what they can from us and then screw us over when push comes to shove. If there was one political lesson to be learned from the Clinton administration, that should be it. He brought in repubs for advice and they screwed him. He reached out to repubs in congress and they impeached him. He called himself an evangelical and Jerry Falwell sent around a video that called him a mass murderer.

You do not give hatred a place of honor at the the table. You marginalize it so that others do not think it is acceptable. To do otherwise just invites more hatred.

I do understand that you want to believe the best of Obama. I did, too. I switched my support to him as soon as Edwards left the primaries and never looked back. I donated time, money and sweat to his election and I cried when MSNBC called Pennsylvania for him because I knew he had won at that point. I was there with you and everyone here celebrating this event. But now I have been marginalized by someone who told me he respected me. I have been pushed aside for political expediency. That two minutes of nothing that Obama has given to Warren represents two minutes more than he has given to the GLBT community.

I don't expect you to hate Obama because of this, but I would have liked for you, and others, to understand how extremely hurt and betrayed we in the GLBT community feel over this invocation. We need more than words at this point to forgive this slap in the face. We need actions that lead quickly and forcefully to full GLBT rights. We need a president who believes we are fully human with all the civil rights that entails.

[BeFree]

43. I do understand

And am not selling that short. What I am saying is, and it comes from years of diplomacy and politics,
is that it is quite possible that this is a turning point in the struggle. That idea also has a basis in the fact that Obama is the P-E.

The fact, too, that this fundie is being openly objected to for the first time at such an event encourages me. Shit is going down like I've never seen before, but I do recognize a movement when I see one.

This movement can be guided into one that takes power from the fundies, and it is folks like you (and me) that must grab this opportunity and make the best of it.

We can sit here and bitch and moan and ask for apologies, but that doesn't work. What works is a united front on a task that is the right thing to do.

Obama hears us, and I believe he will respond accordingly.

[last1standing]

45. The 'bitching and moaning' are a necessary part of this movement.

We do agree completely on this, BeFree, it is a movement and we do need a guiding force for it. Rick Warren may be it. He has crystallized our anger and resentment like nothing since Stonewall and it is going to erupt into something Obama had no way of seeing beforehand.

The question is what will he do in the face of so much outrage? You believe he will make the right decision. I would have believed that last week but today I just don't know. His callous action in giving Warren this honor and overlooking the GLBT community for any cabinet level position have made me doubtful. I don't know that I will ever trust him the way I did before. But that is also necessary for a movement. We must be willing to make demands and have the will to back them up in order for anything to truly happen.

Sometimes the worst insults lead to the greatest achievements. When Rosa Parks was told to move to the back of the bus, it crystallized the civil rights movement for African Americans. When the police raided a tiny bar in Greenwich Village it led to the Stonewall movement. perhaps this will be Stonewall II. I just hope we have an ally in our new president when push comes to shove.

[BeFree]

48. Yes

Well, you are the first of many here to take me at my word and accept that my interests and yours are the same. Thank you.

[last1standing]

49. Its very hard to keep cool when those around you tell you to wait for your human rights.

I've been extremely angry about this and still am. Yesterday I told at least half a dozen DUers to fuck off and I still mean it. Those who make jokes at the expense of our freedoms are no friends. Those who do not understand how vital our human rights are, are no compatriots. This is our basic humanity that is being denied and we had expectations, like every other person who voted for Obama, that our condition would change under his leadership. In the face of Proposal 8 the choice of Rick Warren, one of the lead proponents for the proposal, was a slap in the face we just couldn't take lying down. The conflict between those who are euphoric over the Obama victory and those who are enraged by this betrayal did not make for a good mix.

Still, I know most DUers, like yourself, are on our side and understand that our rights can no longer wait. They understand that we didn't elect Obama as president just to admire him, we want actions taken that make our lives better. I hope that this insult turns to one of those improvements.

[PFunk]

37. Obama may be on vacation. But the 'problem' is still here/

It will not go away, and will be waiting for him on his return. Probally will become bigger as time goes on and possibility overshadowing the Ingauration. Time for Obama to face the facts he made a big mistake here and start finding away of gettting himself out of it.

[firedupdem]

7. Obama is with his family vacationing and having a memorial

service for his grandmother. He has never hidden before so why would he hide now? That's really ridiculous.

[BlooInBloo]

8. (facepalm)

[ecstatic]

10. Rush, is that you?

SMH. :wow:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

12. Actually, Bush would've been DELIGHTED if Warren had done his invocation

This Warren individual and George Bush share the same beliefs.

[Political Tiger]

11. Please!

It's not like the Warren issue is going to be settled over the Christmas holidays!

[alwysdrunk]

20. How can it go away when the event is in January?

You really hate the guy don't you?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

21. I took 10 vacation days to do door-to-door canvassing for him - I donated more $ than you know to

his campaign - I worked tirelessly for his campaign - I bought all kinds of Obama paraphernalia and handed it out to friends and family.
Oh I worked endlessly for him. I even got people to join the campaign.

But if I had known this was going to happen, I'd have taken those 10 days in Montreal and spent money donated on the flight and hotel, enjoying myself.

[Freddie Stubbs]

35. Just like he hid there right after he clinched the nomination and again when his grandmother ill?

Seem like a good place to hide.

[polichick]

2. Pundits on CNN just now mentioned Obama's debate response re gay marriage...

...that he is against it ~ for religious reasons. They suggested that disappointed Dems just didn't believe Obama about that, thinking he was just trying to get elected.

Now what? is an interesting question ~ especially if he really does have those religious beliefs.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

25. It's scary. I know it's my fault for not believing it or paying attention

What's sad is that lots of people didn't believe he could be that way. The organizer for my local Obama campaign headquarters is gay. Wonderful man. Worked tirelessly for Obama.

I guess I learned a lesson, to pay more attention and really believe people when they state their beliefs.

[polichick]

30. Well, politicians are slick...

imo there were some red flags along the way, but it was hard to know what was just politics and what was real.

What he does in the next few days will be pretty telling I think.

The good news: he's a WHOLE LOT better than Bush!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

32. I feel very demoralized right now and am afraid of what the future will bring.

I hope you're right.

[Recursion]

60. Seriously?

He wants a guy he disagrees with to pray for him.

[stillcool]

42. I think he's been consistent...

with his views towards gay rights, and gay marriage which he considers two different things. Something about religion.

[Critters2]

47. Well, since he's claimed to be the same religion as me, and the UCC

supports marriage equality...what the hell is he talking about?

He's against it for political reasons.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

4. Hillary lost. Get over it. Time to criticize Barack.

[Starry Messenger]

23. I'm going for number one.

I'm going to use this as an opportunity to step up my involvement in the issues I care about in human rights and in freethinking. I do a lot of research on the internet but I can see I'm going to have to overcome my hermit nature and get to business.

Great post ProSense.

[Somawas]

33. You can protest. Turn your back on Warren.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8002766&mesg_id=8002766

Obama is his own man and will make up his own mind.

He still has to know that people of principle will not give him a free ride.

[Critters2]

51. He wasn't his own man concerning Wright. Fox News pretty much set that agenda.

Why shouldn't we do the same this time?

[Critters2]

46. I am hereby inviting any politician who wants to to come to my church.

Hell, you can preach if you want.

Now, can I say the invocation?

[Celeborn Skywalker]

55. I wish he would have used a UCC pastor.

Someone from his own denomination that's not a bigoted asshole.

Hell, I actually would have been fine with Rev. Wright (although that will never, of course, happen).

[GeorgeGist]

52. Given that the opening act of his administration ...

is a man of nonsense, there's reason to doubt Obama's knows much about real C-H-A-N-G-E.

[ProSense]

53. You can doubt him, but you still have two choices. n/t

[ProSense]

56. Biden On Rick Warren Invitation: Obama Is Keeping His Promise To Reach Out

Biden On Rick Warren Invitation: Obama Is Keeping His Promise To Reach Out

By Eric Kleefeld - December 22, 2008

In an interview with Larry King set to air tonight, Joe Biden defended Barack Obama's selection of Rick Warren to give the invocation at his inauguration:

Barack Obama said you've got to reach out. You've got to reach a hand of friendship across the aisle and across philosophies in this country.

We can't continue to be a red and blue country. We can't be divided like we have been. And he's made good on his promise.

And I would say to the gay and lesbian community, they have nothing to worry about. Barack Obama, every aspect of his life, every aspect of his public life, and every commitment he's made relating to equality for all people, will be things that he will stick with and that they should view this in the spirit in which he offered the opportunity to -- to Mr. Warren.

Biden was also asked about Caroline Kennedy's bid for Hillary Clinton's Senate seat, to which he said he was "a big Caroline Kennedy fan," and defended her against the charge of being a dynasty candidate by saying that anyone who is selected will have to face the voters in 2010. But he also made sure to qualify his statements by saying that he wasn't in the position to tell Gov. David Paterson who he should appoint.

[polichick]

59. Just as lame when Biden says it - "reaching out" does not equal "honoring."

[Tektonik]

57. Hide in a bunker for four years and hope someone decent is nominated next time

[LatteLibertine]

58. I will support PE Obama

and I will not be silent about my disapproval of Warren or of disapproving of his involvement in the Inauguration.

I am not a sheep or a puppet.

[ProSense]

61. Warren to be keynote speaker at MLK commemorative service on the day before inauguration.

Warren to be keynote speaker at MLK commemorative service on the day before inauguration.