Rick Warren and Melissa Etheridge both appeared at the Muslim Public Affairs Council ...

[11 Bravo]

annual convention in Long Beach, California yesterday. According to Warren, the two had a "wonderful conversation", and Melissa offered to sign her Christmas album for him.
Make of it what you will.

[Taverner]

1. Does it mean Melissa Etheridge threw everyone under the bus too?

:shrug:

[mondo joe]

4. When she selects him for a special honor, ask again. NT

[Taverner]

10. Signing a Christmas album seems pretty special to me

[mondo joe]

11. Really? How many albums a year do you think she signs?

[Taverner]

40. Oh I dunno - I think she'll be in straight classes before too long

You know that Svengali Warren

[mondo joe]

41. Enjoy your snark at the expense of the legally disenfranchised. NT

[Taverner]

43. No I'm just snarking at the outrage over nothing, when there's a homphobe in the AG seat

Making policy

Yet everyone is worried about the sad deluded fundie who talks to invisible ghosts.

You do know Holder, future AG, wants to bring back the ban on gays in the military, don't you?

Oh and Prop H8 will be overturned

I'll bet you a fifty over it

[dsc]

67. I would like a link to this

[NYC_SKP]

52. "straight classes" LOL!!!

:rofl:

Good one!

[Bodhi BloodWave]

72. Would you consider her inviting him to her house for an afternoon to be a 'special honor'?

This is from Tammy's blog

anway. hath hell frozenth over? rick warren was humble and kind. honey and i are to go to his church sometime soon. and honey invited him to our house for an afternoon, to be with our family. (w.t.f.)

http://hollywoodfarmgirl.blogspot.com/2008/12/big-ricks-yamaka.html

[jonnyblitz]

29. melissa etheridge isn't the president of the US.

jesus christ.

[mondo joe]

30. Ddn't you know? Signing an album = being chosen for an honor at a presidential

inauguration.

[jonnyblitz]

32. these apologists are starting to creep me out.

they are grasping at any tenuous thing. I can't help but come to my certain conclusions about them.

[QC]

34. Is he the opening act on her next tour?

Arguments from analogy only work when we use actual analogies.

[avaistheone1]

2. Does this have the same importance and historical significance as the US presidential inauguration?

I think not.

[KittyWampus]

21. would inviting Ahmadinejad to a Mid-East Summit be an "honor"? Of course, and yet Democrats

SUPPOSEDLY expect their POTUS to do so.

Again, this is hypocrisy.

We want our POTUS to reach out to breach the divide and use diplomacy to solve problems but NOT when it involves our personal issues.

[CakeGrrl]

44. +1. n/t

[Bjorn Against]

56. So I take it you want Ahmadinejad to deliver a prayer at the inauguration as well?

How many times do we have to tell you, there is a difference between meeting with someone and giving them a speaking role in your inauguration.

[Umbram]

3. Maybe she hates gay people? (nt)

[marimour]

8. i'm sure of it. I mean why didn't she rebuke him? lol

[warrior1]

5. nice try

[ecstatic]

6. I saw the article on yahoo

He claims to be a big fan of hers.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081221/ap_on_re_us/warren_speech

[marimour]

7. I'm so angry!!!!! Melissa Etheridge just threw gay people under the Bus!

[mondo joe]

13. Your sincerity regarding civil rights for GLBT people is noted.

As being non existent.

[marimour]

23. no. I just know not to play the Repub. like guilt by associations game.

I wish you would try that as well.

[mondo joe]

26. Guilt by action, not guilt by association. When you legitimize bigots, you

legitimize bigotry.

No one said Obama shouldn't work with the Warrens of the world.

But don't let that get in the way of enjoying some Sunday morning snark at the expense of legally disenfrachized people.

[QC]

35. Old news. n/t

[Maven]

9. I'm sure he'd love to "help" her

:eyes:

[Irishonly]

12. He prays for her every night

for her to be cured of her sin. You know, the old love the sinner, hate the sin. My sil speaks to people of different faiths but fully believes they are headed straight to hell as anyone supporting abortion, stem cell and a host of other things. She doesn't do the Amish shun to anyone but believes with her whole heart if you do not believe the same as she does you are going to hell-no discussion. No one objecting to the Warren pick thinks he is going to show his fangs.

[Shiver]

14. He's a big fan apparently

Has all her albums. See, this proves that he likes gay people!

They just can't, y'know, get married. But they can sing and have dinner at his house, and that's almost as good!

:eyes:

[KittyWampus]

25. I'm sure Etheridge knows that. She's politically pretty savvy. And yet she treated him with respect

THAT, my friend, is the sign of an evolved and mature person capable of leadership.

[Maven]

28. No, it's called an entertainer who wants to appear cordial at a public event

Etheridge has spoken out against bigots like Warren before and I'm sure she has little "respect" for someone who compares her to pederasts and inbreeders and wants to "cure" her "problem."

And I'm willing to bet she's not too keen on the idea of Obama raising Warren's mainstream cred and public profile by giving him this honor.

You, on the other hand, are another story entirely.

[Voice for Peace]

15. Juan Cole was there as well

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=410178&mesg_id=410178

[roody]

33. Thanks for linking this.

[S_E_Fudd]

16. So how long before she is called a "house gay"?

eom

[mondo joe]

17. Ask again when you actually give a shit about GLBT people.

[S_E_Fudd]

19. Come back when you think you can act like an adult...nt

[mondo joe]

22. Because adults.... make snarky commens about legally disenfranchised people?

Nice!

[JohnnieGordon]

36. They do on this site, with impunity, as long as the disenfranchised group is gays

I realize the poster hasn't done anything worthy of a tombstone, what pisses me off is the denial that DU is infested with belligerent homophobes. Which IS something Skinner denies, and it's extremely insulting.

[S_E_Fudd]

37. Because children making sweeping and ill-informed statements

Anonymously about people they don't know

[mondo joe]

42. Consider us informed by your statements. Thanks. NT

[marimour]

24. i don't think that will happen. this poster seems incapable of that.

[mondo joe]

27. How do you think an adult behaves when people are legaly disenfrachised?

Be specific.

[marimour]

45. they behave like Thurgood Marshall and MLK Jr. In other words they don't yell, they act.

[mondo joe]

47. Missed the time when Marshall and MLK spent their morning maing snarky dismissive

comments about the disenfranchised.

[marimour]

57. they haven't. thats why i wish you would follow their lead instead of continuing w/ snark

[mondo joe]

59. How about you follow your own advice?

Thanks.

[marimour]

61. i do.

I have nothing to be snarky about. We elected a great man as our President who will try to represent all Americans, so all is well in my life.

[mondo joe]

64. The OP and so much of the rest were snarktastic blasts at GLBT people.

But I'm glad you're privileged enough to feel all is well.

[Jennicut]

18. 1...2.....3

3 seconds?

I don't know what to think other then Melissa knows she is a good person and Rick Warren is not and therefore does not care how anything is perceived.

[bluedawg12]

62. Do you always faithfully believe what Rick Warren says?

We haven't heard Melissa's words on this.

[S_E_Fudd]

66. Funny....

When has the truth ever prevented overreaction at DU...

This is a place where people take Drudge at his word if it suits their agenda

[Bodhi BloodWave]

73. take a look at post 70 in this thread, i posted 3 links

to some of Tammy's thoughts/writings(might not be Melissa but its close enough for me)

[AtomicKitten]

20. Interesting. Good post. n/t

[Critters2]

31. Some of Rick Warren's best friends are gay.

:eyes:

I'm sorry. What was your point?

[polichick]

38. I'll bet Rick comes out of his well-funded closet one day.

[democrattotheend]

39. My progressive sect of Judaism had Warren as a speaker at its annual conference

He spoke about community building and my mom thought he was great. She was surprised to see all the controversy around his invitation to the inauguration. Keep in mind that the URJ was the first sect of Judaism to allow its rabbis to perform gay marriage ceremonies, so I have a hard time believing they would give a platform to someone who was really as much of a hatemonger as he is being made out to be.

[CTyankee]

55. What were their stated reasons for inviting Warrento their conference?

I'd like to hear about their rationale for doing so.

[democrattotheend]

58. He talked about community building

I don't know the particulars, but from talking to my mom it does not sound like his invitation was particularly controversial. I think this was before Prop 8 passed though. Either way, while Warren's views seem extreme to some of us he is considered pretty mainstream by most Americans, including Melissa Etheridge apparently.

[CTyankee]

60. My granddaughters are being raised as Reform Jews. I have attended many services at

their temple and loved them all (I was not raised in any religion and neither was my daughter). It seems to me that for a Reform Jewish community to have Warren come to speak says that he has made some attempt at outreach to them. How is that, given the very liberal ideas of lots of Reform Jews?

[Recursion]

77. Because outside of DU he's defined by his climate change and anti-poverty work

He has a huge flaw and a lot of merits. Who doesn't?

[1776Forever]

46. Melissa was on Randi Rhodes yesterday - She asked Randi how to handle this.......

and Randi suggested they let Melissa and her Partner stand on stage with Rick Warren. I didn't catch if she meant at this occasion or at the Inaugural. But anyway Randi I know is VERY upset about Rick Warren appearance at the Inaugural.

[davidinalameda]

48. I like Randi

she tells it like it is

[NYC_SKP]

49. A double standard, that's what I make of it.

Good post. Recommended.

[mondo joe]

51. If Obama autographs his CD for Warren I swear I won't complain. NT

[TankLV]

50. This post is PATHETIC...still grasping at STRAWS I see...

DESPERATE for ANYTHIHG to justify their BIGOTRY...

nice...

..."but but so-and-so does it TOO!"..."See!"///

shove it and ALL your lame attempts at justifying the DESPICABLE...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

79. Are you telling us we should just "get over it?"

If there's anything worse than Melissa Etheridge associating with Warren, it's DUers rationalizing and defending it.

[54anickel]

53. Just finished reading Juan Cole's take on the event. I love Cole and had a difficult

time reading this piece since I just can't see legitimizing Warren and his strange theology this way.
Still love Cole and Obama, just disagree with them on this.

http://www.juancole.com/2008/12/rick-warren-i-love-muslims-i-happen-to.html

[wildonion]

54. CYLONS!!!! BURN'EM ALL!!!!

:sarcasm:

[bluedawg12]

63. What Melissa Etheridge says is missing in your thread.

"According to Warren, the two had a "wonderful conversation"..."

:hurts: :hurts: :hurts: :hurts:

[Bodhi BloodWave]

70. you might find this interesting, three blog posts by Tammy

first two is from Friday, December 19
http://hollywoodfarmgirl.blogspot.com/2008/12/anti-gay-and-kkk-thats-only-fair.html
http://hollywoodfarmgirl.blogspot.com/2008/12/as-universe-laughed-at-me-i-got-little.html

the third one is from: Sunday, December 21
http://hollywoodfarmgirl.blogspot.com/2008/12/big-ricks-yamaka.html

I found this quite educational myself

[Clio the Leo]

65. HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAAAAAAA..........

..... this just gets better and better.

Without question, this Obama show is the BEST movie I've EVER seen! lol

[TommyO]

68. If anybody can educate Warren to the error of his ways, Melissa is one of those people

She has a remarkable ability to reach out and break the gay/straight barrier that some people have.

[jefferson_dem]

71. I can think of one other person (a "presidential" one) who could also serve as an agent of outreach.

A bridge builder...

[jefferson_dem]

69. Who knew...

Melissa Ethridge was such a HOMOPHOBE/hater/bigot enabler?

[zulchzulu]

74. Melissa Etheridge is an evil homophobe

:sarcasm:

I'm WAY fucking kidding...

[Bodhi BloodWave]

75. Having been reading a bit i must admit i wish more people thought

and acted like her, would make the world a lot better place in general

[snooper2]

76. Melissa Etheridge is dead to me

:evilgrin:

[Phx_Dem]

78. Melissa's partner, Tammy, blogs about Rick Warren.

"So honey met rick warren last night. well, she spoke to him on the phone beforehand, giving us insight into the man the media has made our latest "HE HATES YOU!" target. if i sit real still and think about it.. it's almost like reverse smear-the-queer. remember that recess game in second grade (natalie? derek? karyn?), when one kid had the ball, and all the other kids had to chase and kick the shit out of said person, hence "smearing" him? well, at times, it seems that the media presents us with target after target to smear, as if to say to us, "THIS IS THE GUY HOLDING YOU BACK!! GO GIT 'IM!!!" and it does seem that my lovely gay family is so bruised and bettered and ready to fight back (myself included), that we attack and deem someone ANTI-GAY, and ready to SMEAR, simply when they don't want the word "marriage" brought into our gay ceremonies. now, if the person doesn't want gays AT ALL, then i'm gonna chase that one down. but, i'm starting to think that there are indeed some people... some well-meaning and loving people... who are not at all ANTI-GAY, that's not why they don't want the word marriage used... they are merely RELIGIOUS. and for religious (archaic) reasons, they want to stay safe and respectful to WHAT THEY'VE BEEN TAUGHT.

let me try to differentiate the two.

let's say i am wearing a baseball cap. now what if i want to call it a yamaka? you know- it's basically the same thing, but one is missing the sun visor. i don't call my caps yamakas... cuz that is a religious name for a hat that is worn by religious people. now if i apply that thinking to this situation.... i would like to think of it as.... if they afford us the EXACT SAME RIGHTS, then who cares what it's called? my friend joel can wear his yamaka. i can wear my hat. joel can light his menorah, i'll light my candle. joel can eat his matzo ball soup, and i can break crackers into my soup. joel and hanna can have a piece of paper with the word MARRIAGE on it, and all 1200 rights... and i can have a piece of paper with who-cares on it, and all 1200 rights. the word marriage is a religious, holy, word that people who go to church on sundays are told belongs to them. like yamaka, menorah, or matzo.

rick is not a televangelist. rick is not falwell. rick spoke of some "stupid" things he's said (his word, not mine), some missquotes that were given, and lots of ammunition from the media. all excellent points. (we're all war-minded right now, you know. it's easy for the media to distract us by throwing us into our own verbal wars here at home.) ) what to do, what to do.... the rest of the public is given an animation of rick warren... and then my wife meets the man behind the projections, the quotes, the "OTHER SIDE". and he is warm, caring, effusive, and LOVES gays. since he nearly swallowed honey when he hugged her, i tend to believe him. he wants our gay marriages to be just as respected and embraced as the straight marriages. he just wants to wear his yamaka, and me wear my hat.

anway. hath hell frozenth over? rick warren was humble and kind. honey and i are to go to his church sometime soon. and honey invited him to our house for an afternoon, to be with our family. (w.t.f.)

open minds hearts hands
differences fade."

http://hollywoodfarmgirl.blogspot.com/

[izzybeans]

80. She just provided a sound argument for why Prop 8 is unconstitutional

If it truly is about religious semantics than there is no power invested in our government that can enforce or define the word marriage for them. It has to be left to the individual church whether to perform a marriage ceremony or whether it should be called a civil union or a marriage.

By Rick Warren's logic then, the attempt to define marriage as between a man and a women is an attempt to establish a uniform law that violates the religious freedom of people of faith who do not choose to follow that definition. If this is true, and the proponents of prop 8 made statements in public indicating this, then there has to be a lawyer somewhere with the interpretative, rhetorical, and fact-finding skills to establish this firmly within a court of law.

[Phx_Dem]

81. I agree 100%. Prop 8 is unconstitutional, but Rick Warren

is hardly the only religious person to support it. The Catholic Church and every other major religion defines marriage as between a man and a women. The Catholic Church is adamently against gays and women's right to choose, but would we be seeing this same level of outrage if a Roman Catholic priest was giving the innvocation? I don't think so.

Tammy is absolutely right. It's all about religion. Sadly, it's the religious people who tend to be more narrow-minded and less tolerate than seculars.

But Tammy's bigger point is that, in her opinion, Rick Warren does not hate gays. He is against thier "marriage" because he is religious and that's what his religion taught him. I'm not going to agree or disagree with Tammy. I was merely posting her post to show that some gays can have this discussion without dragging the KKK into it or calling Obama and everyone else who believes the issue is overblown a bigot. I am definitely not suggesting you would do that -- but others here and on other blogs have.

:)

[izzybeans]

82. I agree 100%

She just provided the only opening for a sane discussion on this topic. It wasn't her point, but...I don't think the opinion she expressed will be well liked here.

I just don't know why there isn't a broader discussion on the serious merits of lawsuits that will defeat these propositions. Instead everyone is fighting battles over the inauguration.


We haven't even taken power, and already we are cracking. If this Warren issue is any indication, this is going to be a long and painful road during the Obama administration. The Goal posts are going to keep moving because identity politics will fracture the party into the same mess of warring camps that brought down the party in the 80s and early 90s - when we couldn't win the presidency to save our own ass and lost firm majorities in nearly every legislative body in the country.

Everyone's worried about the symbolism and not the substance of civil rights. The most reactionary of the anti-Warren people sound like separatists.

I don't think it was a wise choice myself, but it's a chance to draw a well-reasoned debate out into the public on this issue, and we are going to miss that opportunity by overlooking the subtle points made in her blog; we are instead choosing the time honored tradition of, as she put it, reverse smear the queer.

I for one favor direct confrontation and deliberation over issues like this. So now that Warren has been chosen, let's begin the debate. Plead the case. Do the things that movements for change do. The only thing that's a choice in this whole debate is whether to be a bigot or not. And since bigotry is a choice...we'll someone needs to be there to direct them to a more democratic and just decision.

That seems to be Obama's position as well.

I understand the hurt feelings, and the reactions here, but I don't agree with them 100% - maybe like 85.5% or something. I don't believe Warren should have been selected, but really its not my choice to make, and Obama's reasoning is consistent with his governing philosophy, which might be unidentifiable to many on the left because its less about criticism and more about reconstitution.