I haven't commented on the Warren debacle yet.....

[senseandsensibility]

The simple reason is that I have nothing very helpful to add. I am a straight woman, and as a woman, I am offended and fearful enough about his anti-woman stances. But so far, he had done nothing to directly take away my rights. Still, I am disappointed that Obama has selected such a person to speak at his inauguration.

I can not imagine what the gay community is feeling. I don't pretend to. The only thing I can offer that may be meaningful is that I don't feel offended by your threads about this subject. I'm not tired of them. I don't want you to stop protesting. Why should I, when you are right?

[Runcible Spoon]

1. you DO know that Warren actively campaigned for Prop 8 right?

I'll hold off on slamming you on the "my rights" bit and point out that constitutional rights and civil rights are the RIGHTS OF US ALL and any affront to the rights of anyone is an affront to EVERYONE'S RIGHTS. I find it a bit sad that you don't take a more personal investment in the struggle for EVERYONE to receive equal rights.

[pnwmom]

5. You ARE slamming her for an inoffensive post, where she's trying to be supportive.

The truth is, she is not DIRECTLY affected by this issue, but she clearly supports gay rights. Directing anger toward people like this isn't helpful.

[Runcible Spoon]

6. oh please.

I'm merely pointing out the reality that what she perceived as "her" rights are the rights of us all. And unfortunately, the rights she enjoys as a straight person are not extended to everyone. That is a CIVIL RIGHTS issue, not a gay rights issue. I wasn't nasty, I was just addressing a very problematic view that some people have about constitutional rights. It's a very deliberate and sustained strategy on the part of the Right to compartmentalize people in terms of "gay rights", "black rights", "women's rights". I appreciate the OP's sympathy but at this point I implore everyone who supports equal rights to get actively involved.

[No Elephants]

10. People may be likelier to get actively involved if you both ask them directly and suggest some

specific things to do. Don't just assume everyone knows.

All I know to do, for instance, is to email or snail mail or call Obama's team at www.change.gov, Democrats on the Inauguration Committee (Feinstein, Pelosi, Reid, Hoyer--see senate.gov) and to donate to the Human Rights Campaign at hrc.org.

[Runcible Spoon]

16. yes, you're correct.

and thank you for posting those suggestions.

[No Elephants]

25. If you have any more suggestions, I'd be grateful.

[SeattleGirl]

11. Has it occurred to you, FON, that while on an intellectual level, many

straight people may be (and ARE) angry, disappointed, disgusted, etc., by the choice of Warren to speak at the inaugural, it will not hit them viscerally at a gut level like it does people in the GLBT community because they are NOT GLBT?

And please, I am not minimizing that visceral reaction; I'm just saying that as a straight woman, it is not as personal to me as it would be to a gay person, just as a man who is for women's rights would not have the same visceral reaction to those who work to restrict abortion, birth control, etc. as I do. (And before you point it out, I know that Warren is not exactly a friend to women either, but the focus here on DU has been primarily on his stance against the GLBT community, so that is where the focus of my reply comes from.)

Just because many people here may not have that visceral reaction (due to the fact that they are not gay, etc.), that does not mean that they don't care. It does not mean that they think that Warren is no big deal. It doesn't mean that it's not an important issue to them. It just means that they (and I) cannot totally walk in the shoes of the GLBT community, not like they walk in them.

[Runcible Spoon]

14. I'm not saying they don't care

I'm merely pointing out that this is not a "gay rights" issue. And I believe that people who are alarmed by this are capable of recognizing that once it's pointed out, and might then see just why it is a "personal" issue to them too.

[SeattleGirl]

18. But the focus here has been on the gay rights issue.

That's what I'm saying.

I do agree that rights are rights, but most humans are going to naturally focus the most on those that are most personal to us.

[Runcible Spoon]

19. I guess my response would be that it's a deliberate strategy on the part of the Right

to compartmentalize this as a "gay" issue to mask the magnitude of the problem and its implications. If we can see past that, it ceases to be a gay rights issues, even though I agree that the GLBT community is the one most immediately feeling the injustice.

[SeattleGirl]

21. Well, I would say that many here on DU and elsewhere on the left

are also compartmentalizing it has a "gay" issue, too, by focusing so much on just that aspect of the whole Warren thing, would you agree? And maybe the right is deliberately working to compartmentalize it; I just wonder if, due to the nature of so many of the threads here on DU, we on the left aren't also playing our part in it.

Just a little food for thought.

[Runcible Spoon]

23. yes people should be aware of ALL of Warren's heinous opinions

I do make a distiction between compartmentalizing the whole fiasco as a gay issue and using it as a mobilization for a wider discourse on civil rights, however. It IS painful, but honestly every movement has a moment where long simmering resentment of being excluded reaches a point of critical mass and real, widespread, coordinated, effective activism begins. We need to take this beyond the internets. I hope that those in the GLBT community and those who care about equal protection will join up for the fight, because that's what it's going to be. Obama is not going to make any waves on this unless we DEMAND that he address inequality.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts on this thread. I'm going to bed! :wave:

[senseandsensibility]

9. I'm a Californian

and I am WELL aware of that. What makes you think I'm not? Hence the "directly" in my OP. But thanks for the condescending reply.

[Runcible Spoon]

15. I don't mean to condescend..

I just find it a bit troublesome that you make the distinction between "your rights" and the rights of others. Rights are rights.

[pnwmom]

22. Rights are rights, as you say, but she has a right to marry that gay people do not.

She is recognizing that, and against that, and yet you jumped on her anyway.

I still think you are directing your anger in the wrong direction.

[Runcible Spoon]

24. I have expressed no anger on this thread.

Perhaps a bit of worry. Sorry to disappoint you.

[kestrel91316]

2. Ditto. I have nothing else to add. Any comment I might make would

be taken wrong by SOMEONE in this flame war.

[ColbertWatcher]

3. Warren hates women too.

The GOP-controlled media want to confuse people into thinking the only problem with Warren is his stance against gays.

He hates lots of people, not just gays.

[ColbertWatcher]

4. Here is a link to a thread with many of the hateful things Warren has said ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4680741&mesg_id=4680741

[madeline_con]

7. But so far, he had done nothing to directly take away my rights.

spell edit

He is sexist and anti-choice. He's does plenty to take away women's rights. He's one of the leaders of the huge magachurches whose congregation's sole lot in life is to meddle in the private lives of others, lest they burn in hell. :puke:

[David Zephyr]

8. Obama's appointed 75% men to 25% women and will embrace an anti-gay bigot in front of billions.

"Change you can believe in"? Bullshit.

[No Elephants]

13. At 25% for women, maybe Obama did better than the general public

does when it "appoints" people. I did a quick count of Senators today, and only 16 or 17 were women--and two of those were Hillary Clinton and Liddy Dole. And there are more women eligible to do the appointing (vote) than there are men. Go figure. *shrug*

[GOPisEvil]

12. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.

Warren and those of his ilk will come for your rights soon enough if not stopped.

[Phredicles]

17. That's pretty much what I think, too (except I'm a guy).

[Warren Stupidity]

20. Your rights are my rights. What is taken from one is taken from all.

It is their hope that we fail to understand this simple principle.