So I have to say it....

[busymom]

My problem with Obama from the very beginning is that as more of an unknown, people were pretty much projecting their hopes for "change" onto him. In the eyes of many, he was sort of a blank slate and when they thought of what they wanted to change, they saw that change in Obama. It's why I never jumped on board of the speeding Obama train and held back. Sure, I voted for him and support him as president elect and will support him as president, but I didn't get into the whole fainting, Gobama hysteria. I held back.

I looked at his record. I read his books.

None of what has transpired surprises me based on my own research. No cabinet choices...nothing. I don't even get the outrage. Surely, if people supported him so vehemently here, they voted based on more than just issues of race or hopes for change? Please tell me you guys did the legwork and knew what to expect!!!

There will be no openly gay members of his cabinet or in this administration. His choice of Warren? Not a surprise.

Look guys...we got what we wanted...a democrat. Some of us supported other candidates but stepped up in the end and pulled the lever for Obama even though we had our misgivings and saw the writing on the wall.

There is no room for complaining now. You helped him rise to the top in the primaries and now he is it. You got what you wanted. It's too late to go back and read his books, think about the pastor wright thing and wonder about why your idea for change is not necessarily his idea for change.

Obama will disappoint some, but he will still do great things. There are many important issues facing this nation, and he is much better equipped to handle the economic issues than any of the republican candidates.

I will say it now: Gobama and Godspeed. He will need all of the support he can get.

[NYC_SKP]

Recommended. nt

[BlooInBloo]

1. Nope. Everyone here voted for him because they felt sorry for the black guy.

Except you. You're so smart.

[busymom]

2. You missed the whole point, eh....

[babylonsister]

7. Ha! nt

[NJGeek]

3. kick

[leftstreet]

4. "There is no room for complaining now." Uh...he's not a Dictator

Didn't Obama himself say he wanted to listen to people?

:shrug:

[busymom]

6. Absolutely...

and we should keep talking...keep throwing out our ideas...keep discussing.

We should accept it when he doesn't immediately jump behind our personal agenda...and be patient. He is still just the president elect...let's give him time. He'll have to prioritize the issues...and then we will have the chance to say what is in our hearts. But some people will be disappointed about some issues. Change comes in increments...slowly...not all at once.

Again, I say it...patience.

[leftstreet]

10. Hate to piss in your pool here, but Human Rights are not "personal agendas"

What part of this don't people understand?

:shrug:

[busymom]

53. I agree....

but wait. First of all, Obama isn't even in office yet, so we have no idea how he will or will not advocate for different groups. I know that there is some disappointment regarding his cabinet picks, but I truly believe that in order to exact real change it is necessary to move slowly. If Obama had chosen an openly gay person for his cabinet (who would that have been, btw? Just curious.) and had picked a lot of very progressive people, he would have no DOUBT gotten nothing but a fight from all of the republicans and many of the democrats. Politics is a game, and he is playing it.

Obama is pulling as many people onto his side as he can. He is counting on his supporters to stand by him and then...I truly believe that if we give him time, he will begin to address the issues.

I am not saying that gay and lesbian rights aren't important or that there isn't unfair discrimination, but some of the issues facing the country right now (like the collapse of the economy and the health care situation scream first priority.

It's just like when you go into the ER and are assessed by the triage nurse. Sure, the knife wound on your hand hurts like hell and needs to be stitched, but the guy who just had a massive coronary is dying in the other room...and had to be helped first.

Patience and faith here.....that is what we all need.

[Two Americas]

33. "personal agenda?"

The political Left is not about people promoting "personal agendas," is is about a commitment to the well being of others, it is about placing the greater good above one's own personal needs and desires. The greater good starts and ends with equal rights for all.

It is completely antithetical to every principle and ideal of the Democratic party to see anyone who is persecuted and abused, and who is fighting for justice, as some special interest group, as not a priority, and to see the fight for justice as secondary to some other plan or goals.

I will resist the ongoing attempt to marginalize, isolate and dismiss a group of people here, and I refuse to accept that speaking out about this is causing trouble or interfering with some grand plan. There is no such thing as a grand plan worth supporting that requires us to do that. I will not do it. I will not be quiet about it.

[busymom]

54. Actually...

politics on the left and the right is about promoting personal agendas. It's sad...and wrong in my opinion, but it is how politics work. Do you think the democrats don't line their pockets with money from special interest groups too? It sucks, but it it what is completely wrong with politics...it's also why I don't really believe in a 2-party system anymore.

It is considered smart though to assess the priorities in our nation and then to address those needs quickly and accurately. Neither the republicans or democrats have stood up to this challenge. For the love of God, we have been in charge for the last few years and what have we accomplished? Nothing....nothing at all...not in the realm of healthcare, gay marriage, poverty or any other important issues facing our nation. We have ourselves to blame as much as the republicans and that is the brutal truth.

[Two Americas]

60. the politicians, yes

You are right. I wasn't talking about the politicians.

"We" have not been in charge. "They" - our so-called Democratic party representatives have been in charge.

I think the only thing that we can be blamed for is putting our faith in the Democratic party politicians, pledging our undying loyalty to them mo matter what - "hey they are better than Republicans" people always say. Of course, that is a self-contradictory argument. If the Democratic party politicians really were worthy of that sort of support, no one would ever have to resort to the "better than Republicans" line.

Democrats are better than Republicans in the same way that fore fighters are better than arsonists. Of course they are, in theory. But when the fires are not being out out, and when we are reaching out to the arsonists, and slamming and bashing the people who try to tell us that their house is burning down...

[Dragonfli]

5. Everything so far has been predictable, that is why I supported Kucinich, however -

I knew that as my choices kept narrowing until it became a choice as usual between a "Corporate Centrist" and a Republican that I still had a choice to make.

I voted for a stop-gap to the very rapid deterioration of our democracy, our civil liberties and the financial and physical well being of most of her citizens.

Make no mistake, it will still continue, only perhaps more slowly, like with the Clinton years.

That is all I ever expected and I am truly and deeply sorry for those that naively expected more.
It is not easy to learn that one's hero is no such thing. It can shatter hope and Idealism within a person upon such a realization. I have nothing but sympathy for those that are shocked or in denial.

It is perhaps time to face a fact that was never hidden, all we did was buy a little more time to try to stop the rot that will destroy this nation. There is not much time. We must continue to fight even though the majority of both parties are complicit. We have no choice really, save to give up.

[FrenchieCat]

8. Make sure to wipe off that Crystal Ball of yours after each use,

as recommended by the witch doctor! Wouldn't want you to get future germs, and shit......

[Dragonfli]

13. I would, but I only extrapolate from known positions

I know you to be cool with compromise and so I expect you are more optimistic, I hope that your divination of the chicken bones of blind faith in such tactics works for you, if it does it will work for all of us.

We differ in belief concerning tactical appeasement and triangulation. I don't fault you your position, why all the snark? That is a new thing for you, I am a little disappointed.

I like you.

[FrenchieCat]

16. That's right, I am an optimist,

and I believe in giving anyone a fair amount of time, as opposed to me speculating about a bleak future just because I can.

It is true, some might not feel they can afford it after 8 years, after the abuse we took from Bush....so I understand the intensity of passion in the pessimists. But I believe that I can afford to wait a little bit longer precisely because I have waited 8 years.

I'm just tired of everyone projecting the most negative future for us all, based on not enough for me to make that kind of judgment. I've never been like that, because if I were, I wouldn't bother to get out of my bed each morning.

I see the glass being half full, is all. I would think that there would be nothing wrong with that.
If I'm wrong, it will be proven soon enough. If I'm right to have been optimistic, it will mean that this country has succeeded, and by extension the people in it, and that is precisely my wish. Why should I wish otherwise?

[Dragonfli]

21. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

When I was young I believed Bill Clinton was a hero.
I loved the guy, he could do no wrong and I knew he would fix everything Ray-gun had done to us.

Let me explain, I come from humble/poor origins. Made worse by welfare reform that was accomplished via compromise. I worked hard in the trades while others - friends of mine - escaped the fate of hunger and crime by going into manufacturing. "Free-trade" has most of them back in the old neighborhood, Compromise had much to do with that.

My wife died from cancer because an insurance company stalled a surgery for six months, in that time everything metastasized and the operation only bought her one more year. Compromise over single payer will assure that the insurance companies keep undue power and profits at the expense of other mens wives.

I see no glass half full until someone pours the water, so far, corporations have their representation assured and republicans can expect compromise. Labor unions may well die over this compromise if it continues and Obama ran on compromise.

The glass is not looking good for working class folks or people seeking equal civil liberties in this utopian compromise.

You are no doubt far more well educated than I am, but I was at the top of my class until I had to quit school to go to work to support my mother so I am not stupid. Just very familiar with a real world lived by most americans that can not afford education to train them in jobs that can not be outsourced or undervalued.

I hope that you keep wishing as you do. It only means to me that you have yet to fall so low as to see the effects of compromise up close and I would rather you never had to.

I like you

Please if you can, keep positive for those of us that can't.
Positive energy is as much a part of the solution as critical work on the imperfections of policies and politicians.

[FrenchieCat]

25. I'm very sorry about your wife......

I'm 50 years old,
and immigrated to this country.
I'm a biracial person.
We came here with nothing at all other than 2 suitcases for three people.
We came here for the American Dream.

I am self employed and can hold on for just a moment longer
(I'm luckier than some, and not as lucky as others),
as my health care cost more than some folk's rent,
but when one is of a certain age, health insurance is important,
as your story tells the awful tragedies that can happen,
and none of us are truly exempt.
and I'm not sure how much longer we'll be able to hang on to that luxury.

We sacrificed to make sure our kids got a good education,
as that is the key to success here in this country, or that is what I believe.

Obama has had some of the same experiences as I have,
and that's why I think he'll make good.
He's worked the streets of Chicago. he's seen utter poverty in Indonesia,
he knows what it is to be different and apart from the rest.
He's defended the civil rights of the underclass, and taught the constitution,
and turned down the big money when he could have gone that route.

Again, I think time will tell. We've got to give him at least some time,
just like everyone else got. I think that's only fair.

I love what this country could be.
I'll keep working for that....

And I always like people I can talk to reasonably....so I like you too.

[Dragonfli]

29. We are working for the same thing

My favorite classes were history and civics, I love the entirety of the principles and ideas this country was founded on.

If he has success using tactics that I just don't believe in because of personal experiences (as well as a certain cynicism about even the best of politicians), I will be more than just happy and willing to credit him for his successes, I will likely even regain the optimism that I haven't felt in over 15 years.

I want things to work out, I just am so damn used to corporations winning every time that I don't trust them enough to believe yet in compromise.

I really meant it when I said I want you to remain optimistic.
It is admittedly a little sad that I no longer can.

We are working for the same thing and I hope we are both successful.



;-)

[busymom]

55. I am so sorry...

It is just wrong...as a nation, we have failed until we can get adequate and affordable healthcare for everyone. We just have.

[madeline_con]

9. "None of what has transpired surprises me ..."

Does that include the "Warren issue" ?

[babylonsister]

11. So do you think his cabinet choices suck? Which ones? and why?

If you're going to bitch out the next prez of the US, surely you have a reason. Because you love him!

[salguine]

12. I have to say it too...even if Obama serves two full terms,

by 2016 we will be no closer to universal, single-payer healthcare, the credit card companies will still be squeezing everybody by the balls—well, rather than recite laundry list, let's just say I'd bet we'll still have the same problems we have now. Flame away if you must—but I've been around long enough with my eyes and ears open to know that it doesn't matter one bit which party is in control; nothing ever changes, does it?

[Joe the Revelator]

18. If you truly believe that....

why even vote?

Don't be that guy.

[democrattotheend]

14. I was one of his original primary supporters, and I am not disappointed

And when I took a poll on this a few weeks ago (albeit pre-Warren) I found that by and large it wasn't his original supporters who were disappointed, and it wasn't the Clinton supporters either. It was mostly the people who had supported another Democrat first and eventually gone with Obama when it was down to a two-person race. This makes sense to some degree, as many of those people originally supported candidates to the left of Obama but hoped that he would be as liberal as they wanted him to be.

[babylonsister]

15. Heh. You are a lot kinder than I am. I think people are also positioning

themselves to say 'I told you so'.

I'm not one of them. I'm in for the long haul, and I do think this man will amaze people with his deftness. :fistbump:

[firedupdem]

17. I'm in it with ya and you hit the nail on the head with this one! n/t

[BlooInBloo]

42. yyyyup.

[TransitJohn]

19. It's funny...

...I was ridiculed on here more than once in primary season for supporting my guy, Kucinich. Now that the Party has spoken and nominated Barack Obama, we "fringe" Party members are right in line supporting our guy, while a lot of folks are expressing a sort of buyer's remorse, lamenting that Obama has turned out to be a centrist (which was entirely predictable). Well, if you wanted a left wing candidate, you should've supported one.

[mondo joe]

20. If he's pandering to the religious right for their support, will he still need mine?

[babylonsister]

22. He also has Rev. Lowery on board. What don't you get about that?

I have no religious leanings, so don't get your angst. And yes, I know you're gay. Cool.

[mondo joe]

23. I got it. I don't know how it cancels out the other.

If you slap me and then kiss my cheek, the latter doesn't cancel the former.

So I answered your question, could you answer mine? If he's pandering to the religious right with Warren (who was deeply involved with Prop 8 and who equates gays with child molesters) to garner THEIR support, does he still need my support?

(And before you answer, please note I am not opposed to dialog with the other side, and could take with no fuss a minister who simply opposed same sex marriage, but who as not as directly offensive as Warren.)

[babylonsister]

26. Thank you and cool. How about an editorial? Or two?

I do know you probably won't agree with these links, but I do appreciate you considering them.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=410023&mesg_id=410023

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=409822&mesg_id=409822

And FTR, I don't think Obama is pandering to the religious right, he's trying to find common ground, as weird as that is. Maybe if more of us didn't take 'no' for an answer, it might work. Yea, dumb. But not so bad in many ways.

[mondo joe]

27. Hey, wait a minute. I still want my question answered.

:-)

If Obama is pandering to OR finding common ground with the religious right to garner their support, by using someone as deeply offensive to me as Warren, does he still need my support?

And should he expect it?

[babylonsister]

31. Hey, thanks for at least asking, after the past week. Of course he needs

your support. Whether you give it is unknown. It depends on who might better serve you, doesn't it.
It's late, I'm an advocate for Obama, but let me know who might be better for you. I like Obama, already he's not perfect, but he's approachable. I like that.

[mondo joe]

32. To answer your question, I don't know who will serve me at all, honestly.

If this is what it's going to be like, I may have to just look out for myself and abandon hope of coalitions.

Unity is cool and all, but I don't see how you get unity with a divisive character.

[babylonsister]

36. So we look to the future. I know where you are coming from, but

after the inauguration, I think amazing things might happen. I'm counting on them, and him. Please, consider that.

[AntiFascist]

40. Reading through your posts...

it only seems that Obama is empowering Warren even more. Maybe this will improve relations between evangelicals and a perceived liberal administration. I never doubted that this move would help improve Obama politically, but Obama is the one who, perhaps, should be a little more humble and considerate of others, particularly those who are being thrown under the bus by this move. Human rights are the ultimate issue, not just GLBT rights.

Also, if Lowry is the other "bookend" to Warren, then what about representation of other faiths? Obama's Christian faith should be a very personal, and private thing for him. The invocation and benediction should also be presented as a private blessing for someone, who happens to be a Christian, about to enter the stage as the new leader of the free world, not some sort of a public religious sideshow about the two sides of Christianity coming together as one under Obama. I think he bit off more than he can chew with this.

[Undercurrent]

24. Glad to recommend.

[jonnyblitz]

28. if you think we can no longer complain then you are off your

rocker, lady. I have never heard anything so absurd. :crazy:

[Skittles]

30. I hear you, busymom

he is what he is to anyone who was paying attention

[EFerrari]

34. What did you think we would do after he was elected?

Go to our rooms for four years?

Seriously, I can't even fathom this kind of thinking.

[busymom]

57. I thought...

We would take a step back, let him put together his cabinet, let him get into office, offer him feedback on the issues important to us and let him actually lead before we started getting this upset.

[EFerrari]

58. So, even though he started making decisions that impact our future on 11/5

we were just supposed not to think about them or talk about them?

[BigBearJohn]

35. I am beginning to think that complaining about Obama will do just as much good as complaining about

Bush.

[FrenchieCat]

37. You probably thought that during the primaries too...considering you

Hated his guts then.

You're right, whether primary or post election, the more things change, the more they stay the same. :eyes:

[BigBearJohn]

41. You have me confused with someone else. I never hated Obama.

Just because I wasn't for him in the primary,
it does not necessary follow that I hated Obama.
It is interesting that you would jump to that
conclusion though.

My only point here is... it occurred to me that
all this complaining about Barack will accomplish
nothin but making a lot of people mad.

We complained our asses about Bush for 8 years
and it didn't do a damn thing.

Jeesh, you sure are fast to shoot from the hip,
aren't you? And YOU'RE the one that believes
that glass is half full? What a crock.

[anonymous171]

38. I'm giving him one term before I pass judgement.

If he fucks up, he doesn't get my support.

[AntiFascist]

39. No room for complaining?

you've got to be kidding.

[Lex]

59. Yes, agreed.

:wtf:

[polichick]

43. There's no room for complaining now?? Of course there is...

Obama himself says he wants people to disagree with him, and that we should all be involved in OUR government.

But I wouldn't call it "complaining" ~ it's active protest on this one.

[Splinter Cell]

44. As far as complaining....

That seems to be the only thing some folks in our party can do.

As far as Obama, he's not anymore in the center-right then Hillary would have been.

[Two Americas]

62. look at the state of the country and the planet

What sane person would not be complaining?

40 years ago I had no idea that I would still be complaining. I had no intention of doing that the rest if my life. I would rather not.

But the suffering people will not wait, should not wait. The persecuted people should not wait. I won't turn my back on them. You can call that "complaining" if you like. "Grievances" is a more appropriate word, I think, and we have a moral obligation and a civic duty to continue to speak out.

Tired of the screaming? Alleviate the pain. Tired of the shouting? Then open up your heart and listen. Tired of hearing about the grievances? Then work to eliminate the causes of those grievances. It is morally depraved to seek an easy way out. It is politically reactionary to encourage others to do the same.

Become a "true patriot."

"The true patriot therefore, will enquire into the causes of the fears and jealousies of his countrymen; and if he finds they are not groundless, he will be far from endeavoring to allay or stifle them: On the contrary, constrain'd by the Amor Patriae, and from public views, he will by all proper means in his power foment and cherish them: He will, as far as he is able, keep the attention of his fellow citizens awake to their grievances; and not suffer them to be at rest, till the causes of their just complaints are removed."

"Knowing that power, especially in times of corruption, makes men wanton; that it intoxicates the mind; and unless those with whom it is entrusted, are carefully watched, such is the weakness or the perverseness of human nature, they will be apt to domineer over the people, instead of governing them, according to the known laws of the state, to which alone they have submitted. If he finds, upon the best enquiry, the want of ability or integrity; that is, an ignorance of, or a disposition to depart from, the constitution, which is the measure and rule of government & submission, he will point them out, and loudly proclaim them: He will stir up the people, incessantly to complain of such men, till they are either reform'd, or remov'd from that sacred trust, which it is dangerous for them any longer to hold."

Sam Adams

[lwcon]

45. I thought we were an autonomous collective

Why is "there is no room for complaining now"?

[LWolf]

46. I didn't get what I wanted.

I wanted a non-centrist/dlc/corporatist/3rd way Democrat.

I knew I wouldn't be getting what I wanted from the beginning.

I hoped, for a short while, that the party might nominate someone at least in the center, rather than center-right.

I lost that hope last January.

I wanted to see the end of the Bush administration. That was happening this time regardless of who got elected.

I wanted a leftist president. That wasn't happening regardless of who got elected.

I hoped for some concessions. A few cabinet members from the left. A decent Secretary of Education. Those hopes were also futile.

Don't tell me that I got anything I "wanted."

And don't expect me to support an administration whose interpretation of "bringing people together" only includes the center and the right.

[busymom]

47. I understand...

[Two Americas]

61. what the people need

Were it merely a matter of what you or I want, then all of the arguments telling us to shut up - er, sorry, no one here has the courage or the honesty to overtly tell us to shut up, so they are telling us to "give him a chance" and "not criticize for right now" and "not get so upset" and not this and not that and not the other - might have some merit.

But we are advocating for what we sincerely believe is the best course for all of the people, especially those most in need, not to gain any advantages for ourselves personally. In fact, there is no such thing as a political Left that is about individuals getting what they personally want. The relentless efforts to characterize the Left that way is a lie, an intentional misrepresentation for the purpose of moving the discussion to the right and to intimidate people and scare then away from considering any opinions that are even slightly to the Left.

[LWolf]

63. You nailed that one.

What the people need, indeed.

I don't intimidate or scare. I'm too old, and I've survived too many attempts at intimidation. So I'm still here on the left.

Still a target.

It's nice to know, sometimes, that I'm not the only one.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

48. You lost me at "fainting, Gobama hysteria"

While he had some supporters like that (and every candidate does - Hillary Clinton certainly had her share of rabid fans, even on DU), characterizing Obama's supporters like that is a gross and unfair generalization, and snotty to boot. I travelled to 2 states to help Obama in the primaries. I was enthusiastic but didn't swoon or faint once and the campaign offices looked like every other campaign I've ever worked on - hate to disappoint you but there was no "cult-like" atmosphere to be found.

As for the "pastor wright thing", what about it? I have yet to see anyone who was so offended by him who actually listened to his sermons in full instead of the sound bites the media played over and over.

[busymom]

49. and did you read to the end where I added a heartfelt

Gobama...

[mrreowwr_kittty]

50. I did read to the end.

I'm just pointing out that starting your message with an insult detracts from the impact you might be trying to have on a large group of listeners.

[kid a]

51. predictable nonsense / brewing sour grapes nt

[MessiahRp]

52. I don't think you understand... there were no progressive choices beyond Kucinich

and he was out of the race very early.

But Obama was the defacto progressive for us to vote for since we all knew Hillary's DLC world view was anything but progressive.

The problem with our thinking is the problem with Obama supporters' thinking now. We thought that if we pushed hard for him he would care about how if it weren't for us he wouldn't have defeated Hillary or won the White House and he would be more progressive when he got into office. We had blind faith that he would do the right thing.

Which is no different than those who see all of these completely right leaning "centrist" and Republican cabinet choices and expect them and Obama to still "do the right thing" just because he's "our" guy.

It was naive then and it is naive now. Problem is what other choice did Progressives have? We're never represented in this Government. Even the far right lunatics got to have a President that cared about them.

Rp

[boppers]

56. There's always roon for complaining.

We're not lockstep republicans, we're the left, we're progressives, we're democrats and we will NOT SHUT UP.