what we have to do in the coming months is educate Obama about gay marriage . . .

[OneBlueSky]

although he claims to be a "fierce advocate" for full equality for gays and lesbians, that claim cannot be true as long as he opposes gay marriage . . . according to statements during the campaign, he opposes gay marriage, and his opposition is based primarily on his personal religious beliefs . . .

in the past decade, literally millions of Americans have changed their mind about gay marriage, which now has the support of a majority . . . there's no reason Obama can't change as well, and it's up to us to educate him about why gay marriage is so important, and why his opposition on religious grounds should not influence is public policy choices . . .

I would hope that major LGBT organizations would seek a meeting with the new president shortly after his inauguration to discuss the issue, explain why it is so important, and ask that he come out in support of gay marriage . . . I would also hope that caring individuals like those here on DU would take the time to convey their own feelings about the issue to Obama over the next several weeks . . .

as he himself has said, Obama is not perfect and will not be a perfect president . . . he has also said that he wants to reach out to Americans of all political persuasions, and that must include those of us on the left . . . on this issue he is clearly wrong, and it is up to us to show him the error of his ways and demand that he keep his religious beliefs to himself and support gay marriage fully and unequivocally as a matter of fundamental human rights . . .

even presidents can learn, if they have open minds as I believe Obama for the most part does . . . on this issue, maybe all he needs are some good teachers . . .

[Clovis Sangrail]

1. it *doesn't have the support of the majority of voters

that much was made clear in the last election

I do think the vast majority of people would agree that "gay people should have the same rights as anybody else" but there's a disconnect in extending that to marriage.
That disconnect is caused by religion telling them otherwise... so another tack needs to be taken.

[Karenina]

2. The margin was very slender in CA

and the subsequent uproar surely shuffled the mix.

[Clovis Sangrail]

4. 8 in Ca was 52.3% to 47.7% ... that's not huge but it's *not slender

4.6% is more than 1/2 million votes

[Shiver]

3. I don't think he really opposes gay marriage

He's voted against and opposed any legislation that has tried to ban it, from DOMA in '96 to Prop 8 this year. That may be because he believes it should be up to the states to decide, and in the case of California, Prop 8 would have taken away a right.

Personally, and this is just a theory based upon reading between the lines of his statements over the years, but I don't think his non-support equals opposition. I think he doesn't support it for personal and religious reasons, but also feels that it is not his nor the governments place to decide whether or not it should be allowed, nor is it the right of either to force society one way or the other.

I agree with your post, though, in regards to educating and speaking with the incoming President on this and other equal-rights issues.

[karynnj]

5. Obama was not in the US Senate in 1996, he was not even in the Illinois Senate

He was against Prop 8 in CA, but I have not seen any listing of votes where he has been forced to take a stand.. His position is also the most common position of prominent Democrats. Remember that even this is an improvement over wheer the Democratic leaders were in 1996 - when only 14 voted against DOMA only one of whom was up for re-election, and a Democratic President was for it. What I do think is that he will move in the right direction as people move.

[Shiver]

6. He has an 89% rating form the Human Rights Campaign

He voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment. And not being in the Illinois senate at the time does not mean he couldn't be against DOMA.

As for a voting record, there is a downloadable PDF from the Human Rights Campaign website at this link showing Obama's voting record (and I jus found out that his votes in the 110th Congress has boosted his overall rating to 94%).

[karynnj]

15. Nice to see

I do know he was against DOMA when he ran for President.

[galaxy21]

7. Gay marriage doesn't have anywhere close to majority support

While it is very close in California, that it a very blue state. Most other states aren't that blue and there's a majority against it.

As for changing Obama's mind: he's running for re-election in 2012. He's not going to risk that, by coming out in support against gay marriage.

If however, he is re-elected, that might be when he comes out in favour of it.

[jenmito]

8. His church is for gay marriage. That should be enough for HIM to be for gay marriage...

Sadly, though, I think he says he believes marriage "is between one man and one woman" because it's not politically popular to say otherwise. I think he's as good for gay rights as a politician who wants to get elected and re-elected can be.

[McFadden]

19. Hmm, that hardly always follows. How many Catholics think the Vatican isn't insane?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

9. He hasn't reached out to Americans of *ALL* political persuasions. Rather,

he has done his best to distance himself from the progressive/liberal community and has capitulated to the DLC, Center-Right.

COMPROMISE = CAPITULATION TO THE RIGHT, BECOME MORE REPUBLICAN-LITE.

That's not change. That's the same old cowardly Democrats that we've seen...

[leftstreet]

10. Didn't he teach Constitutional Law?

:shrug:

[nsd]

11. It's more important to educate the public.

According to this Newsweek poll, Americans oppose full marriage rights for gays & lesbians by a 55-39 point margin. Given those numbers, Obama is going to be wary of jumping in this fight. He'll want to save his ammunition for battles he thinks he's likely to win (e.g., repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell).

If gay marriage is going to become a reality nationwide, we need to convince the public at large of its justice. While the president does have a "bully pulpit," his capacity to lead on this kind of question is limited -- Lincoln wasn't an abolitionist in the same sense Wendell Phillips and Frederick Douglass were. Change has to come from the bottom up.

[JohnnieGordon]

12. Yes but there's also a large group that supports civil unions

When you combine percentage that supports civil unions, with the percentage that supports gay marriage, it's a clear majority. I believe around 60%. Obviously many people supporting civil unions aren't adamantly opposed to gay marriage, and many will soon start saying they support it, as support for gay marriage has steadily and rather quickly risen in the last 10 yrs.

I think it'd be safe for Obama to say he supports gay marriage. There aren't many people who would vote against him for it, when the majority of the country already supports legal recognition of gay couples.

[galaxy21]

13. How do independents feel about gay marriage?

I think that'll be the deciding factor. Since democrats tend to be for it, but republicans don't.

"There aren't many people who would vote against him for it, when the majority of the country already supports legal recognition of gay couples"

I would disagree with that. Most people do support legal recognition...its just the whole word of 'marriage'. And its a big deal to people.

We know that if Obama was open about supporting same sex marriage, while a morale victory, it wouldn't make much of a difference to how it was legally treated. It is now, and probably will for the time being remain a states issue.

But the republican candidate running in 2012? They'll be filling people's heads with lies about about Obama passing it everywhere and how their kids will be brainwashed in school or other crap like that. Basically, it'll be a national version of the yes on prop 8 campaign.

[JohnnieGordon]

14. It's not a big deal to people, it shows up dead last in polls about what people vote on

All of the people supporting civil unions instead of marriage, are not obsessed with preventing gay unions from being called marriage. Many are on the fence, and will be saying they support gay marriage soon, as support for gay marriage is rising steadily.

Anyone arguing that Obama couldn't have come out for gay marriage in '08, had my agreement. It's as an incumbent that I think it would be safe for him to be pro-gay marriage. They'd make an issue out of it, but it wouldn't be enough to seriously hurt his popularity. The world is changing, 4 yrs from now it's going to be even less of an issue.

[nsd]

16. But having opposed gay marriage in '08, Obama can't just turn on a dime now that's he's won.

It would make his earlier position seem like pure political posturing (which arguably it was). Unless he can plausibly claim some kind of epiphany or changed circumstances, Obama can't be the leader on this.

My guess is that gay marriage is a battle to be won state-by-state. The margin in California was close this year. Assuming Prop. 8 survives legal challenges, I'd wager it will be overturned by popular vote in two years, now that pro-marriage forces have been energized. Other states will likely follow -- states like Illinois, Minnesota, Washington (blue states, I mean) -- and this will accustom people to the idea of gay marriage. Together with generational change, that's enough to win nationwide.

[JohnnieGordon]

18. He's given himself some wiggle room

I've seen quotes where he's said it's conceivable he'd change his view of gay marriage. It's included in a quote where he said he may also change his view of abortion, that he'd become pro-life. I don't think that's going to happen, because he isn't secretly pro-life, but he's secretly pro gay-marriage, in my opinion.

[nsd]

17. This is a good point.

Personally I think gay marriage is a battle best fought state-by-state, rather than on the national stage. We're not going to convince the majority in Louisiana of this anytime soon, but California is definitely moving in that direction, despite this year's loss.

[ieoeja]

22. And Obama only said he "personally" believes marriage is between man & woman.

He never said he believes it should "legally" only be between opposing genders.

He voted against such a ban in the Senate.

He says DOMA should be repealed.


The federal government has only one law regarding who can or can not get married, and that is DOMA. Repeal that and Louisiana would be required by the US Constitution to recognize marriage rights for gay couples married in Massachusettes or elsewhere.

[glitch]

20. ...and Christian Dominionism. nt

[Festivito]

21. This is the FIRST INTELLIGENT POST I've seen on this topic.

And, that's after wading through a LOT OF POSTS.

There are more than just Obama that need some educating. This certainly is a good direction.