When Warren speaks, it will be before Obama is sworn in.. it is almost

[Peacetrain]

symbolic of the old neo cons passing away.. I remember reading about Rove and the rovian plan to use fundamentalists and evangelicals to win the White House. It was as callous and ruthless a manipulation of voters as I have ever witnessed.

Warren will be the last speaker of that movement and genre.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Then Obama will be sworn in, and Rev. Lowery will be giving voice to a new way of working with people, including the religious communities.

Symbols are important. Just as the bible of Lincoln being used in and of itself, brings us into a historical moment with no words.


______________________________________________________________________________________________________

That is how I view this, a symbolic changing of how we do things.

EDIT.. misspelled Rev Lowery's name

[firedupdem]

1. I like your view peacetrain. I'm on board! n/t

[boppers]

2. I noticed the timing as well.

The last official prayer of the Bush administration.

[Polly Hennessey]

3. Obama sworn in

That is a good way to look at it. It is symbolic and you made it a little easier to sit through the Warren invocation.

[leftstreet]

4. And then butterflies will descend and we will all join hands and sing The Internationale

[jonnyblitz]

27. "the sky's will open, the lights will come down, celestial choirs

will be singing and everyone will know we should do the right thing and the world will be perfect" Hillary Clinton, February 24th 2008, Rhode Island College.

:rofl:

[Bluebear]

5. View it any way you want. I view it as a big slap in the face.

[noamnety]

6. I am hosting Christmas dinner this year.

We usually put out snacks and hang out in the living room talking before dinner. Then we gather at the table and say grace before the dinner officially starts.

I'm already readying my pre-dinner snacks. Thawed liver that's been in my freezer a few years. Technically it's way beyond its consumption date and it's covered with freezer burn, and it was already left out on the counter a few days before I froze it if I recall correctly - and we had a power outage at one point for a few days where it thawed out but I refroze it again since then. But I don't think anyone will be offended by me serving that up to them because it's technically before the dinner even starts. It's sort of like "this is how things were, but then Christ was born." I think people will appreciate the symbolism of me serving it to them when they come over to celebrate.

[Bluebear]

7. Push your guests over in the snow as they arrive.

It will be symbolic of how forlorn the world was before Christmas. Then, after dinner, send them home with a nice tray of cookies to end everything nicely.

[noamnety]

11. I do make a mean snickerdoodle.

:P

[awoke_in_2003]

17. Do you push them over in the snow...

before or after the Airing of Grievances?

[NWHarkness]

10. Good luck with that

Let's hope that your guests aren't a bunch of evil anti-religion ptomaine-ophobes.

[Diamonique]

8. This is a great way to look at this. I'm with you.

[AntiFascist]

9. Right, but the mainstream media has other plans...

Not only is Rick Warren's book being promoted, they are tauting him as the next Billy Graham and calling him "America's Minister". I hope we're not in for more surprises.

[lamp_shade]

12. I like your view. n/t

[GrannyK]

13. I rec'd this because I agree with you. And may I add?

We sometimes get so stuck in our belief systems that we fail to see the signs and symbols of change. And often, just juxtaposing two belief systems often gives people a new perspective of their, and other belief systems. This can be an opportunity for some who are stuck in the old paradigm to get a glimpse of a new model for society.

Let's shine more light on Rev.Lowery, he deserves it and our country NEEDS it.
Thanks for adding a positive focus.

[IndianaJones]

14. gotta write down all these justifications for putting bigotry on display and making poor choices.nt

[awoke_in_2003]

18. Do you think...

we will surpass the number of justifications issued about the iraq war?

[bvar22]

19. I'm with you.

I worked in an Alcoholic Rehab center in the 90s, and thought I had heard the pinnacle of creative rationalization for the unacceptable.
This OP just raised the bar.

Had Warren been appointed by Bush, the OP might have a point.
But the bigot receiving the honor of the first act of the change administration was not appointed by Bush. He was given the honor by Obama.

[Peacetrain]

20. BULL ROAR!

rationalization like hell.. I was commenting on the irony of it. Take that log out of your eye before you start commenting on the toothpick in mine.

[bvar22]

24. toothpick?

Irony?
Log?

"BULL ROAR"
:rofl:

[Peacetrain]

25. Would you prefer the term HORSE HOCKEY?..

I am nothing if not obliging, especially at the holidays!

[Peacetrain]

21. If you are going to try calling me out.. you better be on a firmer ground.

[Vanje]

15. So while Warren winds up his invocation......

....a great big hooked cane comes out of the stage wings, and gaffs him off the stage, like in Bugs Bunny cartoons.

Or maybe after his prayer, Warren can take a seat at one of those carnival dunk tanks.

THAT would be symbolic!

[Froward69]

16. I see it your way.

a portion of everyone else will skip the whole thing, because of RW's 2 minutes.

as we have been working for nothing else these last few years but gay equality... :crazy: :sarcasm:

Health care
Iraq
Guantanamo
economy
Working poor
Infrastructure
world's respect
accountability

all are nothing in Importance to RW making a prayer... :banghead:

[uppityperson]

22. The good thing about hitting your toe with a hammer is it feels good when you stop.

I am not happy, cannot be happy, about Warren speaking. There is little I can do now about it. If I accept it will happen, I can still be very unhappy about it. It will be nice when it is over.

[Cha]

23. Thanks for pointing out the symbolic

significance of the timing, peacetrain.

[nannah]

26. kicked but too late to recommend

i really appreciate your perspective; it is consistent with the subtlety of obama;s campaign.

[AZBlue]

28. Kick!

:thumbsup:

[RetroLounge]

29. Careful you don't pull a muscle

twisting all that rationalization.

:eyes:

RL

[Peacetrain]

30. See post 20

:eyes:

[RetroLounge]

31. No thanks, seen enough.

adios.

:puke:

RL

[Peacetrain]

32. Just as I figured... NT

[RetroLounge]

33. Ironic Picture

Peace Train author wanted Rushdie dead.

_|_

RL

[Peacetrain]

34. Peace Train author wanted Rushdie dead?? what an odd and strange

post that is.. And that refers to what?

[RandomKoolzip]

36. Cat Stevens, aka "Yusuf Islam."

There. Now google....

[Peacetrain]

40. I know who cat stevens is.. and that has what to do with this?

[Peacetrain]

35. Well now you have hurt my feelings.. I thought you were going to explain to me.

the strange post.. and then you left.. like the wind.. gone.. oh well.. I guess I will have to carry on not knowing the meaning behind the post.. so quickly we come together and then part.. Is this where I :puke:

[noamnety]

38. He's referring to the interview

where Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam), the person who wrote "Peace Train," said that rather than go to a demonstration to burn an effigy of the author Salman Rushdie, "I would have hoped that it'd be the real thing."

http://www.nytimes.com/books/99/04/18/specials/rushdie-cat.html?_r=4&oref=slogin&oref=login

More from the article which describes the interview: "The singer, who adopted the name Yusuf Islam when he converted to Islam, made the remark during a panel discussion of British reactions to Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's call for Mr. Rushdie to be killed for allegedly blaspheming Islam in his best-selling novel ''The Satanic Verses.'' He also said that if Mr. Rushdie turned up at his doorstep looking for help, ''I might ring somebody who might do more damage to him than he would like.''

''I'd try to phone the Ayatollah Khomeini and tell him exactly where this man is,'' said Mr. Islam, who watched a preview of the program today and said in an interview that he stood by his comments. "

The aftermath - from wikipedia: "After Stevens made comments that 10,000 Maniacs lead singer Natalie Merchant found offensive regarding author Salman Rushdie, Merchant led an effort to have "Peace Train" removed from all copies of the album in the U.S. in 1989."

----------
Out of curiosity - your OP reads as if you think this will be the last time Obama gives the national stage to a right wing homophobic bigot. Is that really what you believe, given Obama's history?

[Peacetrain]

39. Please see my post 20..

EDIT:.. I am not being snarky.. just it was an observation of irony on how things can cosmically fit together....

[noamnety]

41. I saw you pointing to that before.

To be honest, I'm not getting it. If you OP was meant to be ironic, it was so subtle as to be completely lost to me, even WITH post 20 added in. Really, post 20 made no sense to me at all because your OP reads exactly like a rationalization from what I can tell.

Sorry if I am being exceptionally dense here, but I suspect I am not the only one.

[Peacetrain]

42. the irony or how things fit together.. it is ironic to me..

[Peacetrain]

43. Not getting into one of those circular firing sqauds going on around here.

But rationalization of what?

[noamnety]

44. The OP read to me like you were rationalizing

the selection of a homophobic misogynistic fundie bigot to ring in the new presidency by saying it was symbolic of ending the old presidency.

I don't see the irony because Warren is part of a pattern of Obama's decisions to honor/give national stages to people using the cover of religion to promote homophobia and bigotry, and I have no reason to think that's going to change.

It's a continuation of both Bush and Obama promoting fundie bigots. It's not symbolic of ending anything, it's just more of the same.

[Peacetrain]

45. Again, it was ironic to me.. how things work out..

It still is. I have no idea what you are talking about rationalizing.

[kywildcat]

37. Kick-thank you for this. n/t